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Morscerta
Gallente
Living in the Fridge
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:56:00 - [1471]
 

Edited by: Morscerta on 14/10/2008 11:58:22
Edited by: Morscerta on 14/10/2008 11:57:13
Honest to God I do not mind the changes as much but if you advertise such a feature:

Much quoted paragraph from your Player guide:
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)."

Stick to it.

It should not cost you as much as you think keeping them as it will cost you when they are not reactivated and it seems many won't be. This amount is likely to be higher than the you originally calculated in your cash flow estimates.

If you like you can send them to me for a quick review and I tell you if it really makes senseWink

Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:56:00 - [1472]
 

Originally by: Jinx Barker
Personally I am deeply disappointed, this used to be one of the features I have told the noobies about, or people who wanted to start playing. This was a feature I used to use too, I mean it actually drew me back into EVE after a burnout a month or two later - knowing that I had that 30 day skill finished and I can hop into a new shiny ship.

CCP will lose out on a lot of subs because of this. Some players will not reactivate accounts after time out of the game as there will be no nice 'welcome back' perk.

The last time I saw the EVE community reply to an idea like this (i.e. 2.5k replies over 100 thread pages in less than 24 hours) was when the sales forum was dropped. CCP complied with the player base's wishes and reversed the decision. I'm interested to see where things go with this change...

Cheers,
Arrs

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:57:00 - [1473]
 

The worst thing about this change is that you gave us 2 DAYS notice that this was happening. Seriously, I still dont agree with your reasons for this awful change, but such short notice is going to catch a lot of people out and going to infuriate a lot more people. 2 days is no-where near long enough for people to make plans on what they are going to do on currently 'ghost-training' characters etc.

Jian Gi
Caldari
Exiled Gathering
HELL4S
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:57:00 - [1474]
 

Ok so now with expired account training deactivated, can we
please get the skill training queu ??
I am making a leap here but I guess that the reason for not
implementing it all this time was because of possible (actually
almost certain) abuse with expired accounts training on and on and on ....

Cho Chiyo
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:57:00 - [1475]
 

Don't understand all the complaining about. We all KNEW that this ghost training was a bug rather than a feature. It was kewl, I have profited from it as everybody else, but the fact that it was cool doesn't make it right. We knew this would happen sooner or later.

On the other hand, CCP's PR could do much better.

- How about providing a second account for existing customers at "power of two" prices? This would sweeten the "fixing" of this bug. The second account could be linked to the main one to avoid reselling it for example.

- How about implementing some form of queuing of learning skills as asked by the CSM? That would have gone well with all of us too.

- How about doing more to tackle the macro farmers?

I won't complain for the loss of an exploit, no matter how much I enjoyed it while it lasted. Still, you CCP can do better than this.

PS: For those out there counting. I'm keeping my second account, I need it and it pays for itself, so it is a no brainer.

Hondri
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:57:00 - [1476]
 

Hey CCP - Why remove the link from the devblog to this thread, fraid much?


Lord Bleu
Darkstorm Command
Ethereal Dawn
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:57:00 - [1477]
 

What's the big deal? CCP is a business not a charity.

Nope, I can't see anything wrong with them making this change.

Suga H
Gallente
Wreckage Reclamation Enforcement Consortium
Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:58:00 - [1478]
 

Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson

ROFL at all you scrounging turds wanting **** for free!



Good god this argument is annoying.

It's not free ffs. It's simply a margin cheaper. You have to pay to be able to use the account.

Xenofur
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:59:00 - [1479]
 

I don't mind the change at all. Completely understandable. But you owe us at the very least an apology for lying about why you did it. Don't try to play the PR machine, you're horrible at it. Just be straight out and honest and you'd have people agreeing with you left and right. :)

mentalmackem
D00M.
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:00:00 - [1480]
 

has ccp done a SOE here, is this the eve version of the NGE only time will tell but eiether way im not quitting

Hilda VanDenDungen
Gallente
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:00:00 - [1481]
 

Like several posts above, I read a lot about this game before subscribing. While I have not done it, I thought the fact that skills could train even if you are inactive was an attractive aspect. I think it was noted in the NYT as one of the arguments for why you did not need to be a power gamer to compete in Eve. Now you just need to be a power "payer" instead of power player.

As a side note I was also under the impression that one account could concurrently develop three players but did not investigate further until after I had paid.

Anyway it does mean I may have to grind more if I want to keep a second "free account". Anyway, what else is there to do while you are waiting for a new skill to train to a high level?

My main concern is the ISK price of GTCs. Perhaps the "eve gold" spam mails will make a comeback.

Sean Mcarthur
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:00:00 - [1482]
 

WTF I was trying to go and cancel one of my acounts(because of this bull**** new "bug" removel) but the manage account page is down. I had set the next payment to be for 6 month, if that payment happens in the downtime of manegmnet i will get REALLY upset.

Suga H
Gallente
Wreckage Reclamation Enforcement Consortium
Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:01:00 - [1483]
 

Originally by: Hondri
Big annoying orange letters.

It wasn't removed.

OisIsy
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:01:00 - [1484]
 

# CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak

I guess CCP should cancel all auto-mining-accounts and other script using accounts!
This shuold help to fix lots of leaks!!!


Total Disaster
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:01:00 - [1485]
 

Originally by: Hondri

Hey CCP - Why remove the link from the devblog to this thread, fraid much?




open your eyes, thanks

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:01:00 - [1486]
 

Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
About time this happened.

ROFL at all you scrounging turds wanting **** for free!







Right, so all the guys who are going to Afghanistan and Iraq for deployments are scrounging turds?
Or the kids going to school away from home that actively blocks EVE and game content, scrounging turds, or people with RL obligations like extended travel, are scrounging turds?

Nice one...

Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:02:00 - [1487]
 

Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
**** for free!


More and more that actually sums it up.

Azuse
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:04:00 - [1488]
 

Haha 50 pages in 12 hours, new record i believe although the first thread achieved that in seven hours.

"A long overdue, featured, and documented part of the game turns out to be a bug."

Unfortunately eve is not like other mmos, the more advanced the player becomes the more rewarded the player gets for playing less (intelligent design) which combined with the current sis patch, which has now been broken how long, which makes eve even more of a chore just to complete the simplest actions such as moving from a to b.. Well, i can't think of a single reason for people wanting to play less can you?

Also, please explain how a game feature which has been present for 5 years has suddenly "spiked" and has gone unnoticed for 5 years Embarassed

Stormaar
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:04:00 - [1489]
 

Where i can sighn online petition about saving "ghost training"?

Piter deVriend
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:05:00 - [1490]
 

It's time they rename FanFest to PayFest?

Ratio Legis
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:08:00 - [1491]
 

Originally by: Stormaar
Where i can sighn online petition about saving "ghost training"?
You just signed one I believe.

Azuse
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:09:00 - [1492]
 

Well the thing is eve player base average is 27/28, mostly professionals of some form or other, which basically means is they have a very intelligent player base. Every few months for the past year some change or other has gone through coated with a strait-faced lie and incomprehension as to why that would happen Laughing

Also i doubt any petition would help, this was a business decision plain and simple (hence the, frankly crappy, deception). If you have a life, job or family that prevents you getting to a pc, move house or get posted oversees you're just not important enough to be a ccp customer.

Leica Stroganow
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:10:00 - [1493]
 

So there we are CCP, money is more than a reliable community, and thats the only reason i see MONEY nothing more.

-Not all off us are money ****ing donkeys.
-Not all off us are harcore 24/7 players ive heard roumour´s that afew off us have to go to work, sometimes for weeks without geting a chance to play.
-You called it a FEATURE over 5 YEARS and now its a BUG god damed(/&%$§"$%&/&%$ YOU

Most off your subscribers want to "log off from Real Live" to play eve, not to see the things you are doing know, our goverments are F***ing us hard and permanent up and down, and we just want to logoff from this ****, and know you do the same!!!

WHAT A SHAME

Azuse
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:10:00 - [1494]
 

Well the thing is eve player base average is 27/28, mostly professionals of some form or other, which basically means is they have a very intelligent player base. Every few months for the past year some change or other has gone through coated with a strait-faced lie and incomprehension as to why that would happen Laughing

Also i doubt any petition would help, this was a business decision plain and simple (hence the, frankly crappy, deception). If you have a life, job or family that prevents you getting to a pc, move house or get posted oversees you're just not important enough to be a ccp customer.

Velda Chulai
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:11:00 - [1495]
 

Originally by: Horny Scientist
Running tally:

Account closure threats: 945
Actual accounts that will be closed: 200
Closed account holders who tries WoW and comes back to Eve after a month: 180
Extra accounts opened by Fanfest goers: 500
Remaining subscribers: 50000+


There are closer to 230,000 subscriptions, although the number of subscribers is probably in line.

Some players will shut down their alts. Others will leave. The reason I won't be giving my stuff away is because I still have hope that CCP will fix what they've broken.

Marla Ramsey
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:11:00 - [1496]
 

Edited by: Marla Ramsey on 14/10/2008 12:11:08
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). As a result, it is a good idea to train short skills while you are playing and longer ones when you log off. If you want to switch skills, you can simply do so by starting another skill training

CCP learn to read your own crap ..greedy b*****ds..lias

Sean Mcarthur
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:11:00 - [1497]
 

hmm and server is not accepting connection, funny that just an hour after I sent a coplaint telling I am quiting because of their stupid decisions, then I can't log on and unsuscribe? this is of course coincidence but still all the small bugs really make me less and less of a fan.
I LOVE eve but right now it feels like the bright shiny experince that is eve is fallinge apart in front of meSad
thanks a lot CCP and to think that I was planning to go to island just last week

Jukio
Gallente
LFC
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:11:00 - [1498]
 

My suggestion:

Fire the guy that made the initial announcement,
Apologise to the fans
DOnt let this go through
Next time dont semi-stealth nerf stuffz (remember teh stealth nerf of that speedrig??), and dont announce crap like this one day before implementation
If youre in financial trubble jus t say so, maybe ppl will react more sympathetic than when you treat them like morons, that reads too much like corporate indifference where the clients are nothing more than "income"

Last Flower
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:11:00 - [1499]
 

Edited by: Last Flower on 14/10/2008 12:14:45
.

Of course it would be more fair and appreciated by CCP's customers if CCP would just say "cause we need money". That will never happen, however, and let me explain you why are we being fed lies, it's for a reason.

Due to "credit crush" and actual economical hole all countries of the world feel to one extent or another, any "virtual" money (credit, loans etc.) or would-be-money deteriorate in value, cause it(money) exist not NOW, that is, in the present. Every company that is at stake now tries to accumulate as much REAL money at this given moment as possible. Yes, this "ghost training" nerf will cause CCP to loose players in long run, loose revenue in long run, but hey, they can deal with that later, by firing-off a new marketing campaign to bring folks back. Thus they employ "oh snap, we'll figure out something!(later)" tactics at the moment, and do this premeditated and smart move to get as much REAL money as they can as fast as possible. How this is achieved? First of, you analyze the situation, the data you have, and you see that there is a large number of "would-be-money-in-a-near-future" but it ain't "real money now", so how do you make the aforementioned into the other and fast? You cut-off "ghost training" and what you get is a vast number of people resubscribing into their accounts for whatever reasons they got (prolly main accounts on "vacation") in 2 days time! <-- HENCE THE SHORT TIME NOTICE. So, the immediate effect is the immediate real money flow and hey, the right immediate upt to date and fresh numbers to show to your business partners ("hey, it's all ok on our end! it's safe to invest").

Now why the "bug" scam? What a self respecting company with common business sense would admit to it's customers that it's finances are bit on the edge? Admitting to your customers, you would also admit to your investors, to your business partners and anyone related to your business. Now we wouldn't want to let that happen, do we?
It's way more easier to lie to your customers by saying it's a bug,
than to try to negotiate a future business deal with your investor by saying "you know, we're a bit low..."

It's simple as that logic not everyone manages to perceive.
SO here are your reasons for "why do they tell lies" drama.

Ghostess
United Mining Corporation
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:11:00 - [1500]
 

Only two things are important now. A lot of other things are just totally ****ed up but these two take priority over everything else:

1. CCP lied to us stating this had to do with some sort of unfairness to other players.

2. CCP admitted it was a lie and then answered with more lies.


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