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Hixxy
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:11:00 - [1411]
 

Originally by: Lifewringer
You FAIL CCP. I will not forgive you UNLESS you take away capped training on the same account away. If I have 3 chars on that account I want to be able to train them all at once. Otherwise you are UNFORGIVEN.

-1 account

Have fun playing CCP (it will be mostly your toons around)


i'd settle for 2 and it would keep a lot of the people here happy not to mention the extra 20 ccp would make by some people moving chars from other accounts.

i get bored doing the same stuff all the time and can't justify having 2-3 subscruptions especially when i don't have much RL time to play hence why ghost training is such a big FEATURE of EVE.

Total Disaster
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:13:00 - [1412]
 

anyone keeping track?

how many left? where did they life? are there nice moons?

Asuri Kinnes
Caldari
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:13:00 - [1413]
 

I LOVE how ccp in their own player guide said one of the selling points of the game was the ability to "train while inactive or expired", but NOW its a game destroying bug...

Look, do NOT insult my intelligence by saying "Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug."

Thats actually a CROCK! You've got it in your player guide, and its been in the game for five years! Are you SERIOUS?

I know games change over time, but really - your telling me its raining when its actually something quite different...

AKTwisted Evil

Ichinomiya Chiaki
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:14:00 - [1414]
 

Originally by: Kryttos
oh and to the ragequitters i say... Good riddance. WoW awaits =p

Yeah!! wraith of rich king is COMING SOON!!

Suga H
Gallente
Wreckage Reclamation Enforcement Consortium
Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:14:00 - [1415]
 

I don't understand the "getting stuff for free" argument, or the "lag" argument for this. First off, even if you're ghosting, you still have to pay to change skills, and to use the skill that you waited so patiently for. Second off, people not logged into the game aren't going to lag the game. It seems that most people that are "emo-rage quitting" in here are cancelling their alt accounts, and probably not their main. Which means just as many people in space as there were before. Though this will majorly deter anyone that was currently on a break to come back.
"instant gratification"
No one's really asking for that. And they'd be stupid if they were. Even when ghosting, you still have to wait the time. Now CCP is making us pay to wait.

Emily Spankratchet
Minmatar
Pragmatics
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:15:00 - [1416]
 

Ho hum. I was about to let a my accounts lapse on the 17th, when their current payment period ends. Not enough time or money at the moment.

I'm not saying "Wah! I hate you! I'll never be back!" But this change does make it slightly less likely that I will return when I have the money and time. I don't blame CCP for making the change, but the unintended consequence has got to be that people who are letting accounts lapse will be less likely to be sucked back into the game in the future.

Mitsuho
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:15:00 - [1417]
 

As ppl tell in army:
'De-escalation zone active presence'

I don't wish spend 3x yearly fee if I can get fun with 1x :)
MBA make ppl mad :)

Natsuno Mirage
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:15:00 - [1418]
 

Edited by: Natsuno Mirage on 14/10/2008 11:20:42
I PLAYED and PAID for YOUR features! For being able to train on inactive accounts. You now call it a BUG?!?! WTF?!?!! I WANT MY MONEY BACK!


Account managers were always bunch of ****ing idiots. Greedy ****ing waaaahm people. Only one thing gets me blood boiling like this, IDIOTS!

emh, whatever happened to this world. The older I'm the colder this **** is. I like your game, but I don't like you.

I was about to go and buy a pack of GTCs for resale during this DT...to be able to afford some capital bpos, capital skills, and to possibly have them trainned on an inactive account. Why? Because I got nothing else to do with that acc. until it's trained. Because that is how I roll Because they take so long I can't train anything else and thus DO ANYTHING ELSE.

Whatever happened to EVE :(((((((((((

Maybe I should go and get a girlfriend in RL.. I always thought that paying for girls is waste of money... but after this, I stopped thinking that.

You failed once in my eyes... it doesn't matter how many times you fail again.. cos i care no more.




Cergorach
Amarr
The Helix Foundation
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:16:00 - [1419]
 

I'm not displeased with the end of ghost training, even though I've used it in the past. It makes for a much more even playing field in EVE, I expect that characters (and skills) will become more valuable because of this change, something I feel is a good thing.

People who are complaining about this change should have seen it coming when they stopped selling 30 day GTCs, the 30 day GTC was the tool of the ghost trainer.

I'm curious if CCP will also do something about the accumulation of Research Points on inactive accounts. The next step after that would be the suspension of buy/sell orders on inactive accounts...

Velda Chulai
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:16:00 - [1420]
 

Originally by: Friday Jinx
Are you people on drugs? How can you be whining about this change from the company that gives you FREE EXPANSIONS to an MMO?

If CCP feels they need to do this, then let them, you ungrateful babies.


How long before the free expansions which subsidize your satisfaction are no longer worth the cost of reduced functionality? How long before the dwindling integrity, whcih CCP now has an established pattern of, convinces you that you're not getting your fair enjoyment of the game?

Ultimately that's what this fiasco boils down to: We're of the position that this is abrupt and unfair. Certainly CCP is welcome to make decisions about how the game functions, but the decision itself is unwelcome.

Many accounts are paid for through relatively expensive subscription fees (if paid via time code - buying GTCs for isk is still a real time code sold) for our mains and/or alts. Many of these alts use an insignificant amount of bandwidth and, by design, will continue to use up an entry in that expansive database regardless of whether it's logged in/active or not. Virtually nothing is saved/gained by this move.

If you can be bought out so easily, enjoy your free expansions.

Fennicus
Amarr
United Trade Coalition
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:17:00 - [1421]
 

Originally by: Emily Spankratchet
Ho hum. I was about to let a my accounts lapse on the 17th, when their current payment period ends. Not enough time or money at the moment.

I'm not saying "Wah! I hate you! I'll never be back!" But this change does make it slightly less likely that I will return when I have the money and time. I don't blame CCP for making the change, but the unintended consequence has got to be that people who are letting accounts lapse will be less likely to be sucked back into the game in the future.

This is the first sensible, non-Emo point about why this could be a bad idea that I've seen in this thread. Kudos to you.

Face deBouc
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:17:00 - [1422]
 

PLEASE again some effort and we can reach 50 pages about "nothing" for say "nothing"

Remember i take your STUFF and your ISK

Thanks for this game CCP

Neliel Oderschvank
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:19:00 - [1423]
 

Edited by: Neliel Oderschvank on 14/10/2008 11:19:56
Oh yeah and another thing... I think CCP will just encourage people to do businesses with ISK Sellers, why? Because now some of you might just rather buy some ISK for a cheaper price and get some TimeCodes(ISK) for playtime to keep your character training for cheaper price... and Hell CCP might even be supporting ISK Sellers (atleast some of them) as its also a business money making.

Who says CCP cant even have an unknown ISK Selling website out there and know about? No one as we cant confirm it either CCP just ban you when caught cuz you just didnt buy from them, lol...

but you get the general idea.

this few fix from 90day GTC to 60day GTC for the price of the old 90 (ripping you 30days) and now this....

it all makes sense that CCP is desperate and in need of more Ca$h!!!

i think imma keep -1 account inactive.. as this will be bit expensive

Butzewutze
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:20:00 - [1424]
 

Edited by: Butzewutze on 14/10/2008 11:22:50
Edited by: Butzewutze on 14/10/2008 11:19:50
Quote:
Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills.


BUG Eh? BULL****!

proof

Taz Devlin
Minmatar
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:20:00 - [1425]
 

An indescribably stupid move to be quite honest Rolling Eyes

Seriously... fire your marketing department CCP.
Couple this with the GTC changes and you just ****ed over alot of happy customers.

And I used to be a fanboi Embarassed

Midas Man
Caldari
Dzark Innovations
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:20:00 - [1426]
 

Due to the large Thread here CCP are now going to Nerf posting....

From now on Dev blogs are "Read Only" no replies as this king of thread size cause undue stress on the hamster run Servers and also stress's the DataBase. All characters will be limited to opening 1 new thread per month and replying to 3. Anyone ignoring this rule will be banned.

We are also introducing a new feature where you can use a GTC to wipe a ban.

We apologies for the inconvieniance you can still tell us your view by opening a petition..

From 15/10/2008 we will be reducing you Game Time by 3 day for each petition raised to cover the wages of the GM's who will anwser "Tough Luck" or "Our Logs show nothing"



Suga H
Gallente
Wreckage Reclamation Enforcement Consortium
Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:21:00 - [1427]
 

And if it's seriously because of a financial crisis in Iceland.. be honest with your playerbase CCP. Be honest, upfront, and patient. Don't go taking away a "feature" from the beginning of the game, and a major selling point. Don't insult the players by suddenly calling it a bug. (And would the other players quit saying it's cheating, because if you've read the player guide, it's right there).

If you need money, tell the playerbase that. Bring up ideas. EvE has always been a game that was built up by the players, so let them help decide. There are plenty of ways to bring in more revenue. Gradually increase the costs, add in special content for an additional cost (this can kill games though), offer other services.. whatever. But give it some time (more than two days), and discuss it with the playerbase.

Don't just go "We're taking out a game unbalancing bug, in two days, that will directly affect your wallet."

Col Carter
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:21:00 - [1428]
 

Originally by: Liranan
You guys are losing track of the real issue here. Iceland is literally bankrupt guys. This is no joke. Iceland is having to beg the most corrupt institution in the world (the IMF/World Bank) for money. While we all see companies go bankrupt and some of you might have lost jobs because of that imagine it on a nation wide scale!


Iceland is getting a lot of assistance, financial and otherwise from a variety of both external government, bank and institution sources. While it will be winging it for a few weeks, the first signs are visible on consumer indexes already that recovery will push through. A big reason is the human population mindset, which soldiers on as opposed to running off in panic mode. Something many other countries could learn a thing or two from, tbh.
Icelandic corporations can now fall back on to a number of frameworks and programs to mitigate circumstances, cover credit gaps, as well as a good number of other options (ranging from payroll migration to foreign currency, stock consolidation plans, the list goes on).

Originally by: Liranan
They raised the price of time cards so they were in line with other MMO's. That is understandable and normal. They were allowing players to play for one month for free, that got changed. I have never been for ghost training and have only done it when my subsciptions ran out and couldn't pay that instance.


Yet on a marketing level that is not the smartest thing to do, while it does meet the argument to tap into a broader market through recognition factors, it does nibble parts off the service which are its unique and supporting selling points. It's a matter of balancing the potential of larger customer markets with the realities of customer retention, in a way it's the age old battle of short term marketing versus long term marketing (where what is perceived and presented as long term ends up being the short term view).
the GTC changes are significant in this, very significant. More then most people are willing to admit. But even more significant then this is the resulting chain of statistics coming from this change, even while influenced by uncertainty for other game changes.


Originally by: Liranan
You guys need to stop accusing CCP of being greedy. CCP might have lost a lot of money when Icelandic banks collapsed, so they might have a hard time ahead of them.

What the real issue is CCP not telling us beforehand and not consulting with the players. The CSM exists for a reason, or maybe not. Another thing is the way they tried to spin this. You guys should be picking a problem with their claims that this is a bug, while they claim it's "A long overdue and much needed change".

Stop the whining about greed. CCP might have hard times ahead of them. Keep complaining about their presentation, that should be the real problem.


This is where marketing and sales comes in, and ultimately all this boils down to economics. Fundamental basis of economics is trust, not nice but unfortunately true.
As such it isn't about facts or figures, but about expectations, very similar to what you can see in real life with the current first phases of the credit crunch.

In a nutshell, when you have a feature evolution or degradation like this, in marketing you make sure you balance the reception of changes. You are clear, you announce things allowing for adjusting, and you mitigate the worst by pairing it with something you give or enhance.
Marketing one on one. Manner and form, stick and candy. Smart marketeers would have alloted time for introduction, and paired it with say something like a skill queue or promo options for customer retention.

IR Scoutar
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.10.14 11:23:00 - [1429]
 

Edited by: IR Scoutar on 14/10/2008 11:38:09
timeline :


  1. CCP Decides to adjust GTC's "to be more inline with other MMO's"

  2. eve forums explode a little

  3. accounts get put on hiatus after their playtime runs out due to high gtc vs isk prices / regular price(no cc/debit card meaning less control )

  4. Months later financial crisis hits the world

  5. CCP states they are not affected

  6. some time later out of the blue an newly hired employee posts a very short information to server/website news stating that a "long overdue change" was about to happen

  7. eve forums explode

  8. well worded panic blog by senior ccp employee is written unfortunatly that dev didnt know anything about the actual topic and in effect lies to the customers

  9. eve forums explode



i see a trend Rolling Eyes


p.s. Mr. Hilmar Veigar Petursson
here are a few ideas

  • Don't let new/unknown ccp employees anounce deep gamechanging things .. thats just not smart

  • Fire your public relations team (not the poor comunity people who probably didnt know this was comming ... poor wrangler )

  • If your "Lead Economist" knew about this and didnt say anything... FIRE HIM ... hes useless

  • Have a round table to discuss things like this with a few more people , who knows maby even the CSM Shocked . You might be able to predict your customers reaction to particular changes

  • hope that helps you a little Wink

    Hitman 001
    Posted - 2008.10.14 11:23:00 - [1430]
     

    this is just BS, yea it is a world crysis, and i can barely keep my founds together, but guess what , with the help of this feature i can keep my alts on. if you remove it i cant, so basicly gonna cancel 2 accoutns or maybe gonna get ****ed to bad and cancell all, and gonna start WOW or something.
    you wanna get rid of bugs?
    get my overviev fixed so it doesent bounce all around my monitor when i jump at the gate, or undock from the station, and get mixed with my fleet , drones window.
    the game is full of bugs, wich i never complained, and still played it.

    im paying for this game, and i do ghoust skilling, but i get back to the game, cos i cant w8 for a long term skil to finish.
    dont know how it is exiting to see a 30 days skill training go like this
    "oh a nother 29 days, .... oh a notehr 28 days"

    BTW if there is a pettion site on the forum, to sign for this im signing it


    xOmGx
    Gallente
    A-Priori
    Red Alliance
    Posted - 2008.10.14 11:27:00 - [1431]
     

    Originally by: Friday Jinx
    Are you people on drugs? How can you be whining about this change from the company that gives you FREE EXPANSIONS to an MMO?

    If CCP feels they need to do this, then let them, you ungrateful babies.


    Lineage 2 - Free expansions

    Last Flower
    Posted - 2008.10.14 11:27:00 - [1432]
     

    short phrase:

    "Can anyone cyno for me plz?"


    Keiretsu Destroyer
    Amarr
    Imperial Academy
    Posted - 2008.10.14 11:28:00 - [1433]
     

    http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=896705&page=1

    guess you didn't see this coming. the guy is selling 60 day gtc for 1 BIL!!!

    Quote:
    yes i know, i do this becouse CCP news of canceling ghost training acounts without warning, many people now want to buy ETC and there is no ETC´s enought to evrybody... have you notice the forum full of WTB orders... itá a mater of time until ETC reach 1 billion. so sorry but i´ll keep my price at one billion

    ceveres
    Posted - 2008.10.14 11:29:00 - [1434]
     

    Everyone should cancel..not because they changed it but because they lied rite to your /our faces

    Karma
    Vortex Incorporated
    Posted - 2008.10.14 11:30:00 - [1435]
     

    Originally by: Friday Jinx
    Are you people on drugs? How can you be whining about this change from the company that gives you FREE EXPANSIONS to an MMO?

    If CCP feels they need to do this, then let them, you ungrateful babies.

    free expansions?
    we'll see. everything can change.

    as CCP has demonstrated quite adequately today.

    Horny Scientist
    Posted - 2008.10.14 11:30:00 - [1436]
     

    Running tally:

    Account closure threats: 945
    Actual accounts that will be closed: 200
    Closed account holders who tries WoW and comes back to Eve after a month: 180
    Extra accounts opened by Fanfest goers: 500
    Remaining subscribers: 50000+

    Kyle Broflovski
    Caldari
    Imperium Galactica
    Posted - 2008.10.14 11:31:00 - [1437]
     

    Originally by: Friday Jinx
    Are you people on drugs? How can you be whining about this change from the company that gives you FREE EXPANSIONS to an MMO?

    IMHO that is going to change soon "to be more inline with other MMO's".

    Koric Blaine
    Posted - 2008.10.14 11:31:00 - [1438]
     

    Not enough time (or the will) to read 48 pages of comments, but I hope someone is paid to.

    In any case, I don't care if ghost training disappears so long as a training queue is implemented. In the past, ghost training has been cited as one of the reasons for no queue.

    Give me a queue, and an API to manage it, and my accounts will be happy.

    Terio Oni
    Caldari
    Posted - 2008.10.14 11:32:00 - [1439]
     

    tnx CCP...


    you just lose 3 accounts...

    Siona Windweaver
    Placeholder Holdings
    Posted - 2008.10.14 11:33:00 - [1440]
     

    Originally by: Koric Blaine
    Not enough time (or the will) to read 48 pages of comments, but I hope someone is paid to.

    In any case, I don't care if ghost training disappears so long as a training queue is implemented. In the past, ghost training has been cited as one of the reasons for no queue.

    Give me a queue, and an API to manage it, and my accounts will be happy.



    I agree.


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