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Dracorimus
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:27:00 - [1351]
 

Well, -1 for me too, I suppose the long awaited lag fix is here after all............Rolling Eyes

Blatent lies dont sit too well.

Piter deVriend
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:28:00 - [1352]
 

Originally by: TwoShoes
Originally by: Admrl Cain

CCP disgusts me on so many levels. Specially this one:

F'ing OWND!

What really ****es me off is back in the day, I highly respected Wrangler. Now he's a Liar and a thief in many ways, just like CCP.


Seems to be an epidemic in Iceland this last couple of weeks seeing as Landsbanki owe the UK tax payers about £1Bill, maybe CCP and Landsbanki learnt their business skills in the same place.

Or maybe this is just revenge for the UK gov, seizing Icelandic assets in the UK under anit-terror laws. Laughing


Hahaha, Netherlands - Iceland soccermatch. Icelandic humor with a banner showing "We have your money". Appearently, Iceland has jack-****.

myrddhyn
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:28:00 - [1353]
 

CCP plz fire the idiot that came up with this idea; short term planning is bad. The guys probably gonna run off with your money and in a year leave the rest of the guys that are really intrested in the game and a good game experience hanging.
This feature doesn't really affect me but i still think it stinks.
To the people hailing this new 'patch' hope you get a free beer out of this on the fanfest.

Skogen Gump
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:28:00 - [1354]
 

Originally by: OneSock


Laughing

Just Laughing


One of the many things that attracts me to EVE is the mature playerbase, thanks for re-affirming my faith!

But on a serious note, if you were reading threads here, sure it's clear that a lot of people are unhappy (to put it bluntly) but would you be more willing to concede to 46 pages of people calling you names, or to 46 pages of people pointing out why it's a bad idea, likely to hit CCP in the wallet ?

If CCP have a good reason to enforce this change, that has a noticeable effect on the subscribing players then I support it; but if not - please reconsider it CCP!
At least, consider giving the players a reason to maintain subscriptions - letting more then one 'toon train on an account (like most every other MMO!) would be very welcome!

(yeah, I realise I'm being hopelessly optimistic, it seems that the only group that gets answered nowadays are the ones that complain the most)

NicotineBuzz
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:29:00 - [1355]
 

We are almost at 49 pages... subject to be locked soon.
After "Disabling ghost training - the blog edition", prepare yourself for
"Disabling ghost training - the podcast edition", because nobody can complain XD
Is April in October in Iceland?O.o
"Since this has caused a lot of debate we've decided to explain why we are making this change in a new Dev Blog by t0rfifrans:"
Sorry but the explanation was?...

Siona Windweaver
Placeholder Holdings
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:29:00 - [1356]
 

Originally by: Torfi Frans Olafsson

There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription
CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak
Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress
We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it.

Torfi Frans Olafsson

Senior Producer of EVE Online


Funny thing is, you brought this on yourselves. It was clear GTC changes was going to result in massive account cancelling. So massive enough that you even "disabled" a bug.

This stinks, all this makes me think you already planned this when GTC changes were first made.

Originally by: Jinx Barker

I have been saying this for a long time, ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to ****.




So true...

Fenrill Nerkata
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:32:00 - [1357]
 

Edited by: Fenrill Nerkata on 14/10/2008 10:32:28

Quote:
Ghost Training was an unintended feature
Only one word : Liar.

For those who say proof of stfu, here is my proof :

1- hosted out of CCP server before CCP change it :
http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=proofxz3.jpg

2- Quoting original host on CCP's Tutorial :
Quote:
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). As a result, it is a good idea to train short skills while you are playing and longer ones when you log off. If you want to switch skills, you can simply do so by starting another skill training. The points gained on the previous skill will not be lost, but you don't benefit from the training until the level is fully completed. The highest level for any skill is Level 5, but some skills also have an advanced version. Some of those advanced skills influence the same area as the basic version, others only a related area.
Source

Midge Mo'yb
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:32:00 - [1358]
 

Originally by: NicotineBuzz
We are almost at 49 pages... subject to be locked soon.
After "Disabling ghost training - the blog edition", prepare yourself for
"Disabling ghost training - the podcast edition", because nobody can complain XD
Is April in October in Iceland?O.o
"Since this has caused a lot of debate we've decided to explain why we are making this change in a new Dev Blog by t0rfifrans:"
Sorry but the explanation was?...



we were at 49 pages, untill ccp started playing **** moderation ;)... whats wrong dont like people showing you how much of a liar you guys are?

balance LOL

Shoopinou
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:33:00 - [1359]
 

And the RP gain, sell/buy orders aren't shut down with the account ?

Then this decision isn't based so much about equity ugh

Liranan
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:33:00 - [1360]
 

You guys are losing track of the real issue here. Iceland is literally bankrupt guys. This is no joke. Iceland is having to beg the most corrupt institution in the world (the IMF/World Bank) for money. While we all see companies go bankrupt and some of you might have lost jobs because of that imagine it on a nation wide scale!

They raised the price of time cards so they were in line with other MMO's. That is understandable and normal. They were allowing players to play for one month for free, that got changed. I have never been for ghost training and have only done it when my subsciptions ran out and couldn't pay that instance.

You guys need to stop accusing CCP of being greedy. CCP might have lost a lot of money when Icelandic banks collapsed, so they might have a hard time ahead of them.

What the real issue is CCP not telling us beforehand and not consulting with the players. The CSM exists for a reason, or maybe not. Another thing is the way they tried to spin this. You guys should be picking a problem with their claims that this is a bug, while they claim it's "A long overdue and much needed change".

Stop the whining about greed. CCP might have hard times ahead of them. Keep complaining about their presentation, that should be the real problem.

Kerdrak
GreenSwarm
Black Legion.
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:33:00 - [1361]
 

SOE bought CCP? Sad

MMoroz
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:34:00 - [1362]
 

Find your niche business and build around it - kinda basic rule for business.

Watching your late actions its clear you hired some dumb marketing kids who know **** about business ( they just have papers ). Give me call in 2 months when your income will drop 10-20% ( it will ;) ), cause it is obvious that you need fire your whole marketing department and hire some people with real knowledge.

Karma
Vortex Incorporated
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:35:00 - [1363]
 

how about a compromise... let it training continue for a week or two, but not longer.

this will help those people who get problems with recurring payments (account is set to keep running, money is available on the bank, but an error causes the account to be suspended anyway... training-time lost).
and most of the advanced level 5 skills take three+ weeks to finish completely.

Chris Tao
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:38:00 - [1364]
 

I feel like i just watched the new Indiana Jones movie 500 times in a ROW

Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:38:00 - [1365]
 

Originally by: Lothris Andastar

Even if a third of eve emoragequits, CCP wont feel a thing as all they need to do is cancel hardware upgrades needed to deal with all you whiners :)


That totally made my day. :D

Do you seriously think hardware upgrades is the biggest cost for CCP? Or any gaming company for that matter?

No, I'm willing to bet my remaining GTCs on the fact that, like most companies out there, STAFF is the highest cost. That's right. Developers, GMs, managers, accountants, even the sweet old lady that cleans the office on thursdays.

Let's assume that even a fifth of the accounts in the game are cancelled due to this (or for that matter, the credit crunch that affect people's income all over the globe). This means that CCP's revenue takes a 20% hit. Unless CCP is making a sizable profit, they may end up in the red because of this. This will then result in layoffs. That means developers getting fired. That means GMs losing their jobs.

End result is, we get less out of our money. This affects paying customers as well as non-paying. This means that REAL features that we're waiting for may be delayed or cancelled, because CCP doesn't have as much staff anymore. This means that the TQ upgrades that would eliminate nodecrashes might be found too costly.

This means that we're getting shafted, people, paying customer or not.

Higgins 5000
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:38:00 - [1366]
 

- 3 accounts


really, what a great time to bring this out with the global economic crisis don't you think? a time when people are already looking for ways to limit what they spend on disposable entertainment.

no more 30 day time cards? screw you ccp, that was a real bunch of bull****. but hey i still kept subscribed.

no more ghost training? then i refuse to give you any money. not one ****ing cent.

Commander Criton
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:38:00 - [1367]
 

Originally by: Karma
how about a compromise... let it training continue for a week or two, but not longer.

this will help those people who get problems with recurring payments (account is set to keep running, money is available on the bank, but an error causes the account to be suspended anyway... training-time lost).
and most of the advanced level 5 skills take three+ weeks to finish completely.


Im guess its either let inactive accounts train skills or not proberly would take some extra coding to add a time delay.

Tobias Lee
Star Mercs
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:39:00 - [1368]
 

I used to run 2 eve accounts 1 main 1 alt switched 2 chars over to my main after GMs took 2 months to deal with my petiton last xmas, that's right 2 months. Then they tried to tell me i had already received a reply which i clearly hadn't else why would i ask wheres my reply.

I switched to paying with gtc purely out of principle whilst i spent my emorage playing other games my main 5 years account was always active.

Couple of months back i was going to sell my main toon use a new alt set up the 2nd account had to pay 20 pounds despite having 2 eve online cds in boxes ?? then switched that to gtc. I cannot afford the current gtc prices or the subs since i'm currently not working so that alt account that was gonna ghost bs 4 to 5 is gonna be gone i wont bother with that account.

Personally if CCP were straight up from the beginning i wouldnt see a problem I remember them struggling to get players when 5k on the server was a busy day, maybe when the server has this kind of number again CCP might actually obtain some sort of decent customer service.

Few words of advice if your teaching kids or feeding them info they like to have it in small digestable chunks. Adults learn differently and prefer to see the whole bigger picture so maybe quit bull****ting people and just say this is how it is, we lost x amount of money or we need x y z for this etc.

Oh yeah and the vast majority of your player base are adults btw in case you did not notice.

As for Mr Lonestar hes clearly a CCP alt, yes its your game but if all the customers leave you gonna be left playing eve on your personal server with just 1 player yourself :P

Ethidium Bromide
Amarr
ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:39:00 - [1369]
 

Originally by: Fenrill Nerkata
Edited by: Fenrill Nerkata on 14/10/2008 10:32:28

Quote:
Ghost Training was an unintended feature
Only one word : Liar.

For those who say proof of stfu, here is my proof :

1- hosted out of CCP server before CCP change it :
http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=proofxz3.jpg

2- Quoting original host on CCP's Tutorial :
Quote:
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). As a result, it is a good idea to train short skills while you are playing and longer ones when you log off. If you want to switch skills, you can simply do so by starting another skill training. The points gained on the previous skill will not be lost, but you don't benefit from the training until the level is fully completed. The highest level for any skill is Level 5, but some skills also have an advanced version. Some of those advanced skills influence the same area as the basic version, others only a related area.
Source


this has been written by players hence it does not state any of CCP's intended mechanics.

i think the huge problem here is people training up alts to fly caps and supercaps without paying for most of the time needed to skill and then returning with rather mighty alliance pets.

so as it goes for me i'm fine with it, if you have an alt you want to use with caps and supercaps pay for it all the way!

asp viper
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:42:00 - [1370]
 

Edited by: asp viper on 14/10/2008 10:43:42


I hope, a majority of CCP customers will teach you a lesson, how to do good work. First you fix real bugs, then you advance the subscription fee, not viceversa. I will be one of them. I will reduce my active accounts. period.

Laydee
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:42:00 - [1371]
 

Originally by: Higgins 5000
- 3 accounts

no more ghost training? then i refuse to give you any money. not one ****ing cent.


If you were paying money, why did Ghost training effect you anyway ?

Otherwise, you cancelling 3 accounts that aren't subscribed Laughing

Ismir Vedenov
Gallente
Avec Laudenum
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:42:00 - [1372]
 

I was going to post something really long about this, but I'll just tell you all a quick story.

I only have one account. Always have. I joined about 6 months ago. I have never once had to ghost-train, but I really enjoyed knowing that when I needed to take a break from EVE and/or as my [RL] wallet's reserves dwindled, I would be able to set a skill to train and come back to a nice present (a juicy level five skill like BS5). That is what set EVE apart from other MMOs in my mind. Whereas with most MMOs, I'd go, "Meh. I'm burnt out. I don't like where I am, and I can't get further right now," with EVE I took solace in the fact I could always just train a really long skill and forget about it for a month or two. I didn't feel like I had to sell my soul (through playtime advancing my character) or give a set amount of my income to play EVE.

It would still take me just as long as anyone else to train skills, but I -- thank goodness -- wouldn't have to pay the ghastly monthly fee while it ticked away. What sense is there, when I'm on vacation, to pay 30 USD for a service I am not using? I am paying to let time pass!

Anyway, I'm not angry, nor am I emoragequitting (though my subscription is not being allowed to renew its 3M sub tomorrow because of CCP's PR blunders here). I completely understand all sides in this argument. I get where CCP is coming from wanting more money, I get where the advocates of CCP's decision are coming from with TANSTAAFL, and I get where those who are against this decision are coming from. I side with the latter, but that doesn't mean I don't see merit in each view. :)

I disagree with CCP's decision for one big reason though, and I think it's logically sound: if someone is ghost-training, they will need to pay a MINIMUM of 14.95 USD for the 30D subscription to change their skills. So even if they're paying 14.95 USD every other month, or even every third month, isn't that more than 0 USD if you remove their reason for subscribing that character/account in the first place?

Thanks for the good times, EVE Community.

-1

Can't wait to see what EVE becomes though! Maybe I'll see you all in-game later. Wink

P.S. Cool down and love one another, won'tcha? YARRRR!!

<3<3<3
~Ismir Vedenov ugh

Cazzah
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:42:00 - [1373]
 

Lies and short notice with no consultation are not appreciated. I am against the proposed changes, and it will hurt Eve a lot.

I encourage others to make known their displeasure and add to the voices of opposition.

Paladineguru
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:45:00 - [1374]
 

Edited by: Paladineguru on 14/10/2008 10:45:47
With a job in the military youve finally gotten down to removing the only incentive that kept me coming back to resubscribe for 5 years. the extra week to a month of sp was usually the incentive for my coming back. now i guess the next time i ask myself the question why should i give eve my money instead of another game , i wont have any answer .

because obviously ccp doesnt give a **** about us anymore. (whine for oveur to come back and pwn these tards)

Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp
Not Found.
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:46:00 - [1375]
 

Originally by: Liranan
Stop the whining about greed. CCP might have hard times ahead of them. Keep complaining about their presentation, that should be the real problem.


CCP told us few weeks ago that they are not concerned by the financial crisis...

Big Al
The Aftermath
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:47:00 - [1376]
 

Better start looking for buyers for that fish tank to make your payroll, I hear people don't like lending to Icelandic companies anymore.

gerbiless
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:48:00 - [1377]
 

Edited by: gerbiless on 14/10/2008 10:49:02
This is amongst the most horrible lies i've heard in a long time... rofl..
Pure greed is the answer to why ccp stops the ghost training.. nothing else!
I think I will say as one of swedens more backboned persons..
Skämmes ta me fan CCP! (Shame on you CCP )

TwoShoes
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:48:00 - [1378]
 

Originally by: Liranan

You guys need to stop accusing CCP of being greedy. CCP might have lost a lot of money when Icelandic banks collapsed, so they might have a hard time ahead of them.



It's not the greed aspect that gets me. It's the fact they are screwing over the casual players for no real reason. It does them no harm. To think that forcing those accounts to maintain an active sub will improve their revenue is sheer folly. More than likely rather than resubscribing when the skill ends, they will only resub when Eve becomes interesting to them again.

I'm sorry but Eve is not the only game out there for many of us who have been in the game some time we may be getting a bit bored and only want to dip in and out from time to time. With this change we have less of a reason to do so.

Woofsie
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:48:00 - [1379]
 

If this had been implemented a year ago I never would have returned to the game.

Bad move CCP.

Evil Edna
Jian Products Engineering Group
Atlas.
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:51:00 - [1380]
 

Originally by: Fenrill Nerkata
Edited by: Fenrill Nerkata on 14/10/2008 10:32:28

Quote:
Ghost Training was an unintended feature
Only one word : Liar.

For those who say proof of stfu, here is my proof :

1- hosted out of CCP server before CCP change it :
http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=proofxz3.jpg

2- Quoting original host on CCP's Tutorial :
Quote:
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though). As a result, it is a good idea to train short skills while you are playing and longer ones when you log off. If you want to switch skills, you can simply do so by starting another skill training. The points gained on the previous skill will not be lost, but you don't benefit from the training until the level is fully completed. The highest level for any skill is Level 5, but some skills also have an advanced version. Some of those advanced skills influence the same area as the basic version, others only a related area.
Source


egg avec face


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