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Yoinx
Caldari
Chemtrail Production Inc.
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:12:00 - [1321]
 

An exploit is an exploit.

A bug is a bug.

A feature is a feature.

A bug can be classified as a exploit.

An exploit can be classified as a bug.

A feature can never be classified as an exploit or a bug.

-

I figured I'd put this out there... Since CCP seems confused on this. Once you sell something as a feature you cant turn around and call it a bug. That would be like me selling a car, as is. Then taking the wheels before you leave the lot.

Now personally, I'm only using one account. I think I had a second I was gonna start at one point in time, but decided not to. So I dont use ghost training... But seriously. This flip flop you're doing really seems to screw a lot of people.

Besides I have to ask. You mention the slight load on the databases... One character is what, like 1 row in like 8 databases? Seriously, unless you have a couple million accounts doing it, since that row is most likely only accessed when that account is actually active, and when you're doing backups/optimizations. I find it really hard to believe that there's that much more load on the servers. ESPECIALLY when you've already got the servers down an hour a day (minimum) for maintenance which gives you an uptime of at best 95.84% per year. Seriously... This isnt even counting the days when the servers are unavailable for patches fixes etc outside that hour a day. So given that amount of time for database management, there's no reason that you should see any impact from these inactive accounts.

Geanos
Missions Mining and Mayhem
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:13:00 - [1322]
 

Edited by: Geanos on 14/10/2008 10:14:48
Well, nice one CCP. A feature that kept me in for a long time and made me return to the game when I was taking a break, has now transformed into a bug.

Quoting from your own player guide: "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).". Here is the page

Account status: suspended. I don't like companies that trick the costumers.

Admrl Cain
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:14:00 - [1323]
 

Removed.Please be polite and constructive with your feedback. Navigator

Ratio Legis
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:15:00 - [1324]
 

Personally I'll not be hit by this since I have just one account which I'm keeping active at all times. This however decides whether getting an alt would be worth it - and that's a solid "no" for me as things have developed.

It is disappointing though to see such a move from CCP, especially since, as I learned, the question has been brought up before in connection with removing ghost training from the Chinese server, and CCP have stated numerous reasons why they wouldn't do it on TQ.

In light of this, the blog seems like a weak attempt at justification with little factual information in it. The statement ghost training has been a bug is simply a lie since it has been acknowledged and actively supported, turning it into a de facto feature, and the innuendo that ghost training characters impose a load on the database servers in any significant way can be perceived as false as well by anyone who knows what a database is.

At the end of the day, it's CCP's game and they have the power to do with it as it fits them best. They've not broken any agreement by doing this, and it's even hard to argue it's unethical to try to maximize their profits. However taking away what they've been giving out for years is certainly not a gesture of good will on their part. What it will achieve in reality is that it will hamper players much more than it will generate revenue and CCP cannot be unaware of this. This step speaks volumes about their changing priorities.

DerArt1st
DEFCON.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:15:00 - [1325]
 

CCP, you are turning into a pie filled with bull****.

Falkrich Swifthand
Caldari
eNinjas Incorporated
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:15:00 - [1326]
 

Edited by: Falkrich Swifthand on 14/10/2008 10:18:48
I support this change. The people who benefited the most from "ghost" training were character farmers, alternating between a paid month of short skills and a "ghost" month (or two, or three) of a long, level 5 skill. Forcing them to pay for the entire time the character is training (money or ISK for GTCs, doesn't matter) should double the price of farmed characters and put a lot of them to the point where they are not profitable.

While CCP may see some accounts permanently lapse, I'd like to think that the majority of accounts actually PLAY the game and don't just switch skills and watch their account expire.

I let my account lapse at one point in the past, and set a level 5 skill training like most people. However that skill being trained isn't what caused me to renew my account, because I didn't renew until WELL after it finished, and I don't even remember what it was Rolling Eyes

Suze'Rain
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:15:00 - [1327]
 

Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Originally by: Suze'Rain

after more than 4 1/2 years as a nonstrop subscriber, and having been around the Eve forums for eight years now, this is an incredibly disappointing "under the carpet" announce



Newsflash, CCP run the game not you. I don't care if you've been here since beta you don't run the game CCP does and if you don't like it you can leave, no one is making you stay here


Really. I'd never guessed that, given I'm not a CCP dev.

What I was trying to say is that in the last 5 years, it's increasingly a case that the changes like this are being slipped in under the carpet, so to speak, as last-moment additions with a "oh, by the way" note.

and that's what I consider unacceptable, the slide in public relations.

OneSock
Crown Industries
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:15:00 - [1328]
 

Originally by: Skogen Gump

If people could be less inflammatory and more constructive, we've a better chance of CCP listening to us.


Laughing

Just Laughing

Seviere
Caldari
Teram Odator Rilfur Pegastur
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:16:00 - [1329]
 

Blog fails so hard it's not even funny.

Watch out the direction you're taking CCP. Most of us don't leave game because we are too hooked to it. But most people with multiple accounts will dump them. GTC's are at a criminal price and you guys end ghost training right after a new power of 2 promotion.

Also lying and plain assuming everyone is stupid is very bad mkay??? This one will cost you big time.

Maestro Ulv
Phaze-9
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:17:00 - [1330]
 

Originally by: Lothris Andastar

Newsflash, CCP run the game not you. I don't care if you've been here since beta you don't run the game CCP does and if you don't like it you can leave, no one is making you stay here


Actualy mr troll its the customers that PAY ccp to run the game, no customers, no ccp. BTW nobody is forcing you to post, please stop Very Happy (hey that really works wrangler! makes ya feel all good about being insulting to people)

Shmekla
Gallente
Rim Collection RC
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:18:00 - [1331]
 

"I must... advance...I must... advance. even if account suspended"
Don't you think this is weird?

Piter deVriend
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:18:00 - [1332]
 

Originally by: Admrl Cain

I highly respected Wrangler. Now he's a Liar and a thief in many ways, just like CCP.


He's an idiot. Period.

Let's see how CCP people will react at FanFest with all the stunts they pulled the past year. Who brings the tomatoes? Very Happy

AntonioBanderas
Empirius Enigmus Navy
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:18:00 - [1333]
 

*Snip* bypassing the profanity filter in ANY way is not permitted -- Navigator

Vivinc Laloo
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:19:00 - [1334]
 

Edited by: Vivinc Laloo on 14/10/2008 10:19:54
This change and, even more so, this 'explaining' blog is an insult to the players.

MissileBella
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:20:00 - [1335]
 

Well that'll be the last monthly subscription payment you get from me.

It's like you really don't like money.

Kyle Broflovski
Caldari
Imperium Galactica
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:20:00 - [1336]
 

Originally by: Shmekla
"I must... advance...I must... advance. even if account suspended"
Don't you think this is weird?


That's how MMOs are made.

Lothris Andastar
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:20:00 - [1337]
 

Originally by: MissileBella
Well that'll be the last monthly subscription payment you get from me.

It's like you really don't like money.


Bye.

Noone will miss you

Thanks for not making lag!

Vek NaVek
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:21:00 - [1338]
 

Originally by: Shmekla
"I must... advance...I must... advance. even if account suspended"
Don't you think this is weird?



You dont know why the people are angry.

Call a spade a spade, and not treat the customers as IDIOTS and smiley face it Very Happy


Alerion
Freelancer Union
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:22:00 - [1339]
 

The only mistake CCP is making is in trying to explain why they make this change.

They don't need to explain anything. It was a feature that (by design or mistake, probably the latter) was allowed to be in-game for far too long.

People started abusing it on a grander scale that leads to problems with character farming and such. Feature removed. Shut up and go back to playing and paying.


MissileBella
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:22:00 - [1340]
 

Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Bye.

Noone will miss you

Thanks for not making lag!


Snowflakes.

You might not miss one, but when there's no snow to enjoy you'll give anything to catch one on your tongue again.

Nackturion
Minmatar
Brotherhood of the Phoenix
Free Trade Zone.
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:23:00 - [1341]
 

Tbh, i'm in the crowd that always found it a bit odd this was allowed to begin with. Personally, to advance skills, a person should have to pay (even though in general I dislike Eve's skill system) but in the end, you should not get benefits from an MMO unless you pay for it, of any kind (unless it's stated as a free MMO, such as Guild Wars, ofc). It's that simple. The way CCP allowed Ghost Training essentially equated to them giving out free 'play' time, if you take into account that in Eve you dont play to advance your character abilities, as you do in other MMO's.

Commander Criton
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:25:00 - [1342]
 

Hmm... Not a fan of this change and as others have said if it is to improve the database then the other database driven actions shoould also not work on inactive accounts lol the account should be completely inactive..... Also what next Inactive accounts/characters will be deleted after a certain time to free up the database....

P.S Skill queuing needs to be considered.

Lothris Andastar
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:25:00 - [1343]
 

Originally by: MissileBella
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Bye.

Noone will miss you

Thanks for not making lag!


Snowflakes.

You might not miss one, but when there's no snow to enjoy you'll give anything to catch one on your tongue again.


Even if a third of eve emoragequits, CCP wont feel a thing as all they need to do is cancel hardware upgrades needed to deal with all you whiners :)

TwoShoes
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:25:00 - [1344]
 

Originally by: Admrl Cain

CCP disgusts me on so many levels. Specially this one:

F'ing OWND!

What really ****es me off is back in the day, I highly respected Wrangler. Now he's a Liar and a thief in many ways, just like CCP.


Seems to be an epidemic in Iceland this last couple of weeks seeing as Landsbanki owe the UK tax payers about 1Bill, maybe CCP and Landsbanki learnt their business skills in the same place.

Or maybe this is just revenge for the UK gov, seizing Icelandic assets in the UK under anit-terror laws. Laughing

Skeltem
Unforeseen Consequences.
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:26:00 - [1345]
 

"Ghost Training" for me and most players I know of was a distinguishing feature of EVE. A reason why many players still had an active account on and off. Now you ****ed them off. It sure isn't for no reason at all. Icelandic bunkrupt und such. But maybe you latecomers to economic "wisdom" just shot your own foot.

Time will tell.

Turismo
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:26:00 - [1346]
 

Edited by: Turismo on 14/10/2008 10:27:53
CCP,

This 'bug fix' combined with the 60 day GTC cards will reduce the number of players returning after breaks as well as the number of alts. I have a couple of concerns:

1) Are you guys ready for a market crash? I think this may get completely out of control.

Market demand will drop as discontinued alts or retiring mains no longer need equipment. They also owned a lot of gear. People will start dumping items and ships they can no longer fly on active accounts.

If your remaining player base no longer can earn the same isk through mining, trading and industry how will they stay motivated to keep playing?

You not only have too much isk in Eve, there is also too much stuff. You need as many accounts as you can get because satifaction for players in Eve depends on growth. You think fleet battles and FW will keep us going?

2) If your player base is struggling to maintain specialized alts, how much interest do you think there will be in any new features you may have planned to keep us hooked? Exploration was skill intensive if you wanted to do it, and FW restricts your ability to move around in Empire. Both features were ideal for alts, but restricitve for main characters.

I hope you re-consider this proposed change. Sadly, I doubt you will. I am sure you are expecting a sudden drop in subscriptions but that it will be revenue negative as players are keeping payments up to date. It is very likely that in a year's time you will be wondering why your player base is still declining.

Nex Abyssus
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:26:00 - [1347]
 

Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Originally by: MissileBella
Originally by: Lothris Andastar
Bye.

Noone will miss you

Thanks for not making lag!


Snowflakes.

You might not miss one, but when there's no snow to enjoy you'll give anything to catch one on your tongue again.


Even if a third of eve emoragequits, CCP wont feel a thing as all they need to do is cancel hardware upgrades needed to deal with all you whiners :)


more veldspa for you then

Drakir Nossral
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:26:00 - [1348]
 

Originally by: Geanos
Edited by: Geanos on 14/10/2008 10:14:48
Well, nice one CCP. A feature that kept me in for a long time and made me return to the game when I was taking a break, has now transformed into a bug.

Quoting from your own player guide: "Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).". Here is the page

Account status: suspended. I don't like companies that trick the costumers.


CCP you just lost my accounts !!!!

Fly safe

Heomos Ricedi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:26:00 - [1349]
 

Originally by: Piter deVriend

Let's see how CCP people will react at FanFest with all the stunts they pulled the past year. Who brings the tomatoes? Very Happy


Yeah, watching Fanfest can be mutch more exciting than everybody thought ;)

MissileBella
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:27:00 - [1350]
 

Originally by: Lothris Andastar

Even if a third of eve emoragequits, CCP wont feel a thing as all they need to do is cancel hardware upgrades needed to deal with all you whiners :)


I don't understand your point.
But kudos to your fanboism.


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