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Skogen Gump
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:44:00 - [1291]

Originally by: Midas Man

all your doing at the moment is going round hitting all your paying customer with a nerf bat.

It certainly doesn't cause me any problems at all so it's not 'all your paying customer' [sic].
As I've said, my only concern is that it's a change for changes sake and as someone else has pointed out, this has a chance to work out to less income for CCP. After all, if an account is being ghost-trained for a while, it's very likely that it will be resubbed to put something in the queue.

If people could be less inflammatory and more constructive, we've a better chance of CCP listening to us.

Sean Drake
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:50:00 - [1292]

Edited by: Sean Drake on 14/10/2008 09:54:30
GREED the only quick answer to this garbage

So they increased the cost of GTC's and then this watch for the incoming price hike on subs.

Either there econemy collapsing has hit them hard or quite frankly they want to downsize EvE to free up resources on there new project without having to spend money to hire new ppl.

and incase you had not guessed then this is a bad idea it was a bad idea a few years ago when they anounced it last time and then back tracked so hopefully they will take there heads out of there rectums long eniough to do the same again.

Welcome to the end days is that fiddling I can hear

Posted - 2008.10.14 09:51:00 - [1293]

This should have been announced BEFORE "the power of 2" offer !!

Reasons you explain are lies, and method is completely dishonest

There is the horrific smell of marketing people in there, marketing will kill this game

Sean Drake
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:51:00 - [1294]

Originally by: NereSky
Originally by: Delos Korelian
Originally by: Jinx Barker

... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to ****.

Aint that the truth


Oh and this

Posted - 2008.10.14 09:52:00 - [1295]

CCP, you have a loyal player base here. Yes, things did go shady with the whole BoB incident, and then with the GTC's, and now the ghost training.

Just tell the players honestly what is going on for once. It doesn't hurt you in any way to be honest with us for once. Is CCP in trouble with the financials and do you need help?

Don't take ghost training out completely. Bring back the 30 and 90 gtc's at their regular prices. Ghost training has been around for 4 to 5 years, its not a bug. Your going to lose A lot of subscriptions this way. Think about it mathematically.

1 player has 3 to 4 accounts. 1 or 2 of them always running, which the others coming online at some point. Thats 4 accounts from one paying costumer, even with them overlaping, so you might get payed for 2 subscriptions in one month.

Now bring that back to 1. You guys should have a financials department and I'm pretty sure 1 is smaller than 2 or 3 or 4 (who does have the highest number of accounts??)

Talk to the community at let everyone help you guys through this if your actually hurting. I don't see how you telling your player base you need help is going to hurt you. We love this game and want to keep it alive, what your doing is killing it, and its not dying its running around choking on its own vomit and exiting its own bodily fluids. Its like watching a wounded animal die from some kinda slow extremely painful disease.

Even if its for a little while I would glady pay for a $5 fee to keep my skills training while my account is inactive for whatever time you guys need to get out of this economic crisis. Some money is better then no money right?

Mashie Saldana
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:56:00 - [1296]

I actually like this change, just make sure inactive players don't gain RP's and their production/research jobs get paused (not cancelled) during inactivity.

Red Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:56:00 - [1297]

i think BoB incident is forbiden theme here..

But ya GM/CCP Employee givint EXPENSIVE stuff for free...

Did anyone got ship refunding, ships wich has been destroyed by Illegaly build titan?... don't think so.


Posted - 2008.10.14 09:57:00 - [1298]

Even when I have been playing other games, I always paid my 2 accounts,
just because ofghost training. I had a reason to activate my accounts.

Now that I play Wow (yeah, I know) little more active, I still *paid* for my 2 accounts, even tho I ghost trained them too. That will end now. I just sell my other account for isk and let other to run out of paid time. I might come back, but it's unlikely.

I have no motivation to pay anymore since I can't train as I have used to.

I didn't like the way GTC's was changed, but this was the last thing I am willing to bear. You REALLY want people to try other games?

And guess what? Most of them won't come back. You did notice that AoC lost most of it's players since things start to suck there and there is alternatives these days. Lagging servers are NOT norm on games anymore.

"So long and thanks for all the fish!"

Midas Man
Dzark Innovations
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:59:00 - [1299]

Originally by: Skogen Gump

It certainly doesn't cause me any problems at all so it's not 'all your paying customer' [sic].

This will stop alot of people training alts, hell I have 2 account that i don't use anymore but have keep resubbing and training on for almost a year, as I can no longer train them with out full subscription they wont be getting any sub from them ever again.

And as much as you feel safe in that bubble, you will be affected quite badly when subs start sliding.

You can see from all the GTC fiasko that CCP are hard pushed for cash, they may get paid in £ & $ but the Iceland flop will be having its effect.

Everyday the "Loyal" customer base is facing nerf and ramification that they are very vocal in disagreeing with.

All MMO's that make change that P*** off large portions of there community lose large portions of the community.

The GTC stuff was bad, the speed nerf is bad check the size and number of flame post in all dev blogs about it.

And this 1 blog has got almost 1500 replies in less than 12 hours of being published

Go Figure

Posted - 2008.10.14 10:00:00 - [1300]

Edited by: Neonoodle on 14/10/2008 10:02:53
Edited by: Neonoodle on 14/10/2008 10:02:04
Oh Well.

-4 accounts from me, Thank god i didnt act upon my urge to take part in the power of 2 for that Amarr character i wanted. Also pleased i only ordered EON #13 and not renewed for another yearly subscription.

Least i will have new skills and stuff to play with after i come back from 6 months in real life serving Queen and Country in Afghanistain, no wait a minute....................

P.s no you all cant have my stuff, its all going to one account that i might reactivate, one maybe.

P.s.s Takening market orders off and stopping RP on inactive acounts would sit ok with me, but this is disgusting, and thanks for the months or warning.


Posted - 2008.10.14 10:00:00 - [1301]

Username: ...
Payment Type: EVE Time Code
Subscription Status: Active
Expires: 11/8/2008 1:39:51 PM
Transactions made: 7

Account will not be payed in November. He will sit offline and imagine that he train something interesting. May be he will be payed later. May be not.

CCP, don't lie to customers that always-existing thing, described in the User's Guide, is a bug. Don't lie, CCP!

Nex Abyssus
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:00:00 - [1302]

and still no response from ccp?

Posted - 2008.10.14 10:01:00 - [1303]

Originally by: Jinx Barker

... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to ****.

qft - stop attacking your fans... if you can even call us that any more

Posted - 2008.10.14 10:02:00 - [1304]

when is jumpgate evolution comming out again? see you there!

Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:03:00 - [1305]

CCP can try to explain their actions all they want we all know its because they're greedy ..they changed the GTC system ....and now they'll stop ghost training.
If i would have been a money hungry corporation i would have probably done the same things to force the gamers to pay more money....
Soon enough you will remove even GTC payment.
And they mean to tell us that from the begining of EVE ... they couldn't h ave fixed "THIS BUG" untill now? this is so beyound crap .... this is a reason why people had 2-3 accounts ....and now im not sure thata there will be so many people who will have more then one accounts....

It seems players have to pay more and more....but when there are petitions ingame gamemasters aren't that willingly to cooperate...they seem somehow stubborn....instead of helping people they ban people...

General Snus
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:03:00 - [1306]

Economic crisis should not hit CCP that hard because their income is in USD and EUR so they can easily match their income vs cost. I don't think the change itself is bad but the way they announced it is VERY strange. Gave us 2 day warning and then talk about unintended feature... they must think we are idiots!

I have canceled my subscription for now because I live in Iceland and I still have to pay in EUR and the price has more than doubled in the last few months. I smell greed like other players and in times like we are facing it is the last think I want to support.

Sha Dar
eXceed Inc.
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:04:00 - [1307]

I've never used this so called "bug" but tbh, I really think they don't give a damn.

The expected avalanche of subscribers when the "Guinea Pig" patch i.e Ambulation hits, will more than compensate for any accounts lost over this, yet another, ccp screwup.

We get to be free beta testers for their new MMO, their sub numbers go up when all the second life sheep and "Omg, i don't care about bugs and ****e customer support and stuff, i'll resub just for an avatar" pile in and their bottom line increases... equal ccp - happy.

Roll in Infinity:The Quest For Earth

Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:05:00 - [1308]

You did lock the previous topic Neutral

You warn us 2 days before the change goes in effect ? Usually we have dev blogs for monthes before something (good or bad) goes live. Not this time...

Piter deVriend
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:05:00 - [1309]

Guys and girls. Do not waste your energy. CCP will never listen to its player base. Iceland is Landsbankrupti and this is their way to make more money hoping that they don't have to eat Fish the entire winter.

Whining about it will not help. Petitioning will not help. The only thing that helps is to not pay for alt accounts. We all know (and CCP does too) that you guys will eventually enable your alt accounts again.

CCP here are some more ideas:

- Walking in stations so you can buy clothes and **** like in the sims.
- Disable GTC's
- Make the euro standard currency
- Make a absurd link between the euro and ingame ISK (not real icelandic krona because our banks don't even accept them anymore)

God, let's hope Jumpgate will be a decent game..

Col Callahan
Boogie Monsters
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:05:00 - [1310]

Originally by: Hurint
Originally by: Jinx Barker

... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to ****.

qft - stop attacking your fans... if you can even call us that any more

Ichinomiya Chiaki
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:06:00 - [1311]

2008/10/15 ghost train to be removed
2009/xx/xx skill point increase when you on-line
2009/xx/xx sorry ccp's traffic is too heavy. so your skill point increase when you OFFLINE
2010/xx/xx new expansion released. but you pay 30$ if you play that contents. and.. addition pay 30$ when you install that.


Lothris Andastar
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:09:00 - [1312]

Maybe CCP dont want to give an answer?

Please CCP Devs, just tell these people to STFU and that you will run the game how YOU want too and dont care if a third of eve EMORAGEQUITS

(p.s. I support the removal of ghost training)

Maestro Ulv
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:09:00 - [1313]

Hmm ok. I only have two accounts, both in the main paid for with Visa although on odd occasions (four times I think in 5 years) I have purchased a GTC.

In all that time I have "ghost trained" once, because right there and then I could not afford to play and simply stopped my sub and not my skills. This period lasted for roughly 5 months and my skill had something like 2 weeks left... not exactly ripping anyone off then...

As for this new bull****, well its plain crap. We all know it and that includes you CCP people.

I shall be retaining use of my main, this guy, but my industrial alt account will be left to die now so thats another -1 for you.

He was never ghost trained, purchased on the first power of 2 and kept active in all that time, go nosy at the details if ya want CCP. I lose him now because you don't deserve the money from him, if you quit with the bull I'll bring him back (not that I expect you to give a **** about what I do anyway).

Clone 1
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:09:00 - [1314]

Originally by: Nex Abyssus
and still no response from ccp?

They cannot respond. You are not gona get

"Aw, shucks guys, We didnt know it would hurt you so, we changed our minds"


"This is the way it is, like it or lump it" -: which is a redundant statement

They have said what they wanted to say, in two different untruthful ways

You want a third lie? Very Happy (see what I did there Wrangler, a smiley makes things ok)

Posted - 2008.10.14 10:10:00 - [1315]

Edited by: Suze''Rain on 14/10/2008 10:12:31
well, I would like to add my dissatisfaction with this to the masses.

after more than 4 1/2 years as a subscriber, and having been around the Eve forums for eight years now, this is an incredibly disappointing "under the carpet" announcement

Claiming this is a bug is, frankly absurd. if it is a bug, then claiming it's taken 5 years to fix it is absolute nonsense.

will we also get to see all inactive account sales, buy orders, and other market actions suspended? How about multi-race corporations whose CEO goes inactive, do they revert to 10 members from only one race? how about POSes set up by inactive characters, and so on?

there's been several occasions where my account has lapsed, from when my 3-day trial (yes, 3 days) completed, and I trained caldari frigate 5 while I decided the game was good enough, to completing the last 2-3 days of a skill after a credit card cancellation, secure in the knowledge that the game was'nt going to miss anything out for those last few days.

Now, with this "bugfix", another element of what made CCP stand head an shoulders above the rest of the MMO industry is lost. Another nail in the coffin of showing care and interest for your customers.

Crown Industries
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:10:00 - [1316]

This is just so much bull**** I don't know where to start.

You want to talk about unfair ?

You think it's fair I can't use my sub on RL Holiday or business trip ? Your still getting paid sub for time I can't play.

You think it's fair some people can spend 10 hours a day online while others can only manage 10hours a week online ?

You want to start screwing us over like this then it's about time you start billing actual in game time and ditch the subscription for good. Pay to play.

Not got the balls tho, have you.

Well, I admit I ghost train long skills, I've always re-subscribed. Maybe I won't next time.

Black Prince
STK Industrial
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:10:00 - [1317]

I don't think "hot topic" accurately describes this issue. 100 pages of posts in a few hours? I think you struck an unpopular nerve this time. I have only ghost trained a few times and that's mainly because I've had to go away to RL for a few months on business or study and it's been nice to come back to a new skill without paying for game time I'm not really using.

I understand that CCP is a business and it's all about making money, but eve is more popular now than it's ever been so it strikes me as odd that you'd need to try and get more money out of the player base. I'm pretty sure that there is more money to be made by adding value than taking value away.

I fear you will lose a lot of casual gamers and end up losing more money than you gain by doing this.

Perhaps this reply will never be read by a CCP person but I hope so and I hope you choose to reverse this decision.

Lothris Andastar
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:12:00 - [1318]

Originally by: Suze'Rain

after more than 4 1/2 years as a nonstrop subscriber, and having been around the Eve forums for eight years now, this is an incredibly disappointing "under the carpet" announce

Newsflash, CCP run the game not you. I don't care if you've been here since beta you don't run the game CCP does and if you don't like it you can leave, no one is making you stay here

Tharukan Desm'ar
The Ninth Circle
Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:12:00 - [1319]

Edited by: Tharukan Desm''ar on 14/10/2008 10:19:02
Edited by: Tharukan Desm''ar on 14/10/2008 10:17:41
I fully support ccp's doing this. Get what you pay for.

Edit: Less alts are good! Might go some length to individual characters/ players being held accountable for their in game actions for once. Its far too easy for corp thieves and pirates to escape the negative aspects of their lives.

Vergil 577
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.10.14 10:12:00 - [1320]

Edited by: Vergil 577 on 14/10/2008 10:13:06
I'm posting with my main because this may have a large effect on whether or not I continue to play EVE because the other people I play this game with oppose this idea with so much fervour that Iíll have no reason to play the game anymore. Also before I make a huge wall of text Iíll sum it up.

1) I donít disagree with the change
2) I donít what they call it
3) The only thing that matters is how itís implemented, what happens and why.

The reason I donít disagree with the change is because if I train a long skill letís say Titan 5 but have paid sub before I thought of training that but someone else paid in small enough chunks we both take the same base time to train the skill even when the other guyís account has gone inactive, now I must say every should think thatís even a little unfair. Also if this causes an increase in profit that means (if the company is in debt) they can pay it off and not get ****ed by the economic crisis or they have more money to upgrade the server otherwise or buy someone like CONCORD some more donuts.
The reason I donít care what they call it is because I donít need someone else to stick a label and denounce it good or evil for me to make up my own mind. Letís for example take a war. People die, period, it doesnít matter what we say about it people still die. You can call it a bug being fixed or a feature being removed it still doesnít make it different.
The only thing that happens is why they did it, what it does and how they did it. If itís because they want to make more money, all power to them, remember CCP is not some special entity that makes the game for the good of the people, they make it for cold hard cash. Itís a business, a firm or whatever you want to call it. How itís implemented matters to, for instance I personally disagree with the lack of warning and the race to implement this without prior discussion, which does hint at possible financial difficulties inside the company. Also finally the why of it matters, now if you think before to the 2nd point I make I said I donít care what they call it, this is a bit different (just in case). If you letís say change the functionality of a module, like the disputed energized regenerative membrane, just because the name suggest different functionality youíre an idiot. If CCP is doing this to earn money for the game and company ok theyíre a business if theyíre doing this to recover or protect themselves from an economic crisis ok, if theyíre doing this because they truly do believe itís unfair and disadvantages other players good, but if theyíre doing this just to screw with you or because they felt like then itís bad.
Finally I do think however this is financially a bad idea in the long run. Now Iím not going to give a run-down in numbers but from the looks of things the amount gained from the activation of account due to skill training may not cover the costs of the drop of subscriptions in the first place.

P.S. No you canít have all my stuff if I leave itís all dying in PvP including my PvE ships, including mining ships, well maybe not that far in case I want to come back but still NO!

602 words

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