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swoj
The New Order.
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:17:00 - [1261]
 

Edited by: swoj on 14/10/2008 09:27:34
Granted I can see the point, why should non-paying accounts progress, however given the length of time this has actually been a 'feature' of the game I think the timing of this decision is very, very poor.

It's a bit of a kick in the teeth to customers. Not only are we experiencing major problems in the world economy (and for most people that put's doubts on job security) but as that was starting to happen, the cost of playing Eve was increased for many people (by way of the 60day GTCs). And now the people that are being forced to take a break from Eve will now not gain any skills for when they come back.


I've just canceled two accounts, and this account will allowed to expire next month. My intention had been to return again in 6 to 9 months - so honestly, what impact real are my characters going to see by gaining 30 to 40 days of training time? (aside from the capital skills, there are virtually no skills that will take more than a month to train). Always thought that allowing the skills to train was a useful way of encouraging people back to the game.

Also, how exactly is this going to work - when an account expires, is the players current SP going to be saved and their current skill cancelled?
Will SP be lost if a character was halfway through a skill when the account actually expires (or on Oct 15th when this feature is implemeneted)?


Edit: I'll point out that I've had this account for over 3 years with no breaks, my two alt accounts were each active for over 2 years with no breaks.

Vek NaVek
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:18:00 - [1262]
 

Originally by: Horny Scientist
Yes yes!!!!!!!! You will all cancel your accounts!!! Thats right, ALL the inactive ghost training accounts!!!!!!!!


A typically ghosttrained alt is active more than its not. On average 9 months out of 12.

Because of the recent promotions of Power of 2, and there has been more Power of 2 offers recently than in the past, there are more characters (alts) now than before that are approacing the age where they have long skills to train.

I wonder how many will return.



Vikarion
Caldari
State Trade Consortium
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:19:00 - [1263]
 

Originally by: Vek NaVek
Originally by: Horny Scientist
Yes yes!!!!!!!! You will all cancel your accounts!!! Thats right, ALL the inactive ghost training accounts!!!!!!!!


A typically ghosttrained alt is active more than its not. On average 9 months out of 12.

Because of the recent promotions of Power of 2, and there has been more Power of 2 offers recently than in the past, there are more characters (alts) now than before that are approacing the age where they have long skills to train.

I wonder how many will return.





Not mine!

Balthareiks
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:19:00 - [1264]
 

Although I have nothing against this update I don't think it's fair for some players. There is a statement in players guide that imply, that you can train if your account is inactive. There also exist conformation on this "issue" directly from CCP staff in written format on the forums. In case anyone decided to "buy" another account becouse of this "sale point" and then you "sold it" at that timea and for taht reason, you were actually making, although unintentionaly, a forgery. Correct me if I'm wrong, becouse I don't know Islandic law good enough to be 100% behind my previous assumption.

I only have 1 account and pay for it if I play, but if you decide on this update, then I hope you'll be at least fair enough and make inactive accounts trully inactive. I wonder if you will use "inactive" accounts "active" for your own good like:
- keeping market stable with allowing for this inactive accounts to still sell things
- allowing inactive accounts to produce, invent, gather RP, "polish" BPO's and other simillar things
- bounties that were placen on someone's head - who will return them if the owner decides to quit that accoount due to "ghost training"
- I bet there are other things that exist in game and did not came to my mind right now, but should be made inactive for inactive accounts

Generally I support this idea, as long as it's clean and no one gets robbed of things he deserves or taht he already bought with real money. This can be understood in two ways, positive for those that gained something as well as for others (us), tahat would gain if you pull everything from the market, contracts, RP... taht belongs to inactive characters.

Best regards,
Balth

Azuraito
Conspiracy of Silence
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:20:00 - [1265]
 

Way to go CCP

Best news i heard this year! Laughing

Llywellyn
Blind Rebirth
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:20:00 - [1266]
 

Can I have everyone’s stuff?

I don’t think ccp will loose much money because people choose to cancel already semi canceled accounts, It will balance out; the ones who keep it active 6 months a year will permanently cancel while the other persons will choose to activate the semi active for 12 months. It will balance out. In the meantime can I have all the people’s isk and minerals and ships to add to my capital?

Kel Zon
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:20:00 - [1267]
 

Wow...The level of concern about fairness that the Goons display for the rights of their fellow players is staggering.

Training skills while not paying is queer anyway you slice it...Thanks for playing though.YARRRR!!

xOmGx
Gallente
A-Priori
Red Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:22:00 - [1268]
 

i cheked few names thay are not exist in eve anymore... so it's true ppl's deleting their accaunts


Rhiannon Le'Tent
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:22:00 - [1269]
 

Removed. Navigator
.
Whomever the dumbass was that though this alteration would net them more cash has his head up his ass. I currently have 2 accounts both are set to auto renew for 1 year, I will be emailing the eve support team to get instructions on setting them so they won't auto renew..
Hopefully when next march rolls around it's time to renew my subscriptions, Diablo III will be released. Maybe I'll save $262.80 USD next year.

Wodanonline
Amarr
Pringles Inc.
No Comment.
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:23:00 - [1270]
 

well i understand.
But at least be honest and say its a way to make more money for ccp.

dont use lame excuses that are true but is not the real reason.

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:24:00 - [1271]
 

Very good change. About effing time....

Now, remember to kill RP generation, production and research too while accounts are inactive.

Rinaldo Titano
Caldari
Caldari Elite Force
Apocalypse Now.
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:24:00 - [1272]
 

Originally by: Glengrant
Originally by: Lijhal
i do not understand, why after 5 years, they are changing this "feature" of EvE-Online into a "bug" ... 5 god damned years !!!


Tolerating rare use is different from seeing this become more common.
Of course if that bug/feature never existed there would be 0 whines about it now. And I don't believe anybody who claims that ghost training made him start playing EVE. And if GT was all that kept someone in game - bye bye.

Originally by: Lijhal

So, if you are going to change this, please consider to give the player base following options:

1. movement of characters for FREE onto other accounts, for, lets say, a month


Might be a good idea.

Originally by: Lijhal

2. the option to merge existing characters into one



Bad idea for several reasons - main one being that it is too troublesome to begin with.

Originally by: Lijhal
3. Skill Queque


Won't happen - and for good reasons. Main one being that skill queues make it way too efficient for char farmers to mass produce chars for sale.
Also this is way overestimated. So your skill finishes in the middle of the night and you loose a couple hours before you start the next skill - big deal (not).
People talk like it is important to have trained every single hour - it really is not.

Originally by: Lijhal
4. All characters on one Account can learn Skills


Again makes it too easy to mass produce chars for sale.
Also would encourage people to fill all char slots so they can reap maximum SP per account. EVE does not need more alts.

Originally by: Lijhal

1. More content, more ships



There's plenty of ships already. I'd like them to concentrate on some other stuff for a few patches.
More content - always good. But the main content of EVE is and always was - other people. NPCs can't really compete with that.

Originally by: Lijhal
more missions


Rather make the current number more clever and varied.

Originally by: Lijhal

more 0.0



Not much point - will all be claimed on day 1.

Originally by: Lijhal
please stay unique and no not become something similiar like SoE ... goddamned!

is this so hard ?



CCP/EVE is nothing like SoE/SWG.

Threads like this one is just your regular whine threadnaught. The change is not evil. It won't destroy the game. Half the guys who say they will cancel all accounts won't. Most of those that do won't be missed.

I'm with those who wondered why this didn't happen sooner.
This could/should have happened 2004 - so just be happy about the up to 4 years of extra time of ghost training you had.

Anybody who quits over this - good riddance. The game will be better without your type.


Dear friend.
If u could read and u would have the patient to read trough all this pages u would realise that the most of the players are not angry because this bug/feature would be removed, they angry because the LIES devs telling us, and because this become to be a trend by this greedy company

Fly safe and have fun

Ichinomiya Chiaki
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:26:00 - [1273]
 

Originally by: Llywellyn
Can I have everyone’s stuff?

I don’t think ccp will loose much money because people choose to cancel already semi canceled accounts, It will balance out; the ones who keep it active 6 months a year will permanently cancel while the other persons will choose to activate the semi active for 12 months. It will balance out. In the meantime can I have all the people’s isk and minerals and ships to add to my capital?



No, i'll delete or sell my 4 account stuffs for left one.
So you want to get my stuff, buy it to me LOL

Rakhkain
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:26:00 - [1274]
 

Personally, being torn between MMOs which I really like and unfortunately due to rl reasons (family, work etc) being unable to get really involved in them as I would like, EVE's ghost training was always a good incentive to come back to EVE. You would see something new, maybe a new ship class or some more versatility in your character.

Removing this "bug" is not a deal breaker for me. But suddenly, after all this years of advertising this as a feature, to call it a bug and make a blog claiming unfairness to other players, is annoying to say the least. Especially after game guides, and old posts from DEVs never once called it as such (a "bug").

Well, simple fact for me, next time I get bored with EVE, there will be one less thing to pull me back again.

My 2 cents.

Total Disaster
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:26:00 - [1275]
 

Edited by: Total Disaster on 14/10/2008 09:26:10
can you please remove the Skillpoints that characters got while being inactive too? Laughing

Clone 1
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:27:00 - [1276]
 

Edited by: clone 1 on 14/10/2008 09:35:21
I have never shut down an account in protest, or threatened to close one. But CCP, the lies are just too much.

I will end up closing 3 accounts irrespective of whatever wishywashy way you address the issue in the coming days.


This is not so much about the change to 'ghost' training, but the LIES for the reasons behind it.





Amarr Hyena
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:27:00 - [1277]
 

Edited by: Amarr Hyena on 14/10/2008 09:27:39
estimated cancels incase no one has done it (I skimmed, used lowest numbers, sure theres more)

-82

thats just this thread btw. still got the other to look at.

edited cause someone above cancelled.

Hulk x
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:27:00 - [1278]
 

1)This was one feature that I did not use but joined the game because of it. It was always reassuring that my skills did not stop just because my credit card expired or I forgot to renew. You should give some kind of time between payment stops and skill being stopped.

2)If you do implement this then do not act like its a bug and explain your actions.

3)Many people train long skills the "PAY" again and change the skill. Or sell the char and "PAY" again to transfer it. They are paying customers if you did not realize it. And they isk they get is also used in the game guess for what? Paying for GTC which someone has "PAID" for and sold it for isk.

4)Where is skill queuing now that you have fixed this bug?

5)Where is notification that you could not charge my Credit Card with out cutting me off?

Veldya
Guristari Freedom Fighters
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:28:00 - [1279]
 

I don't really care either way as I have never ghost trained.

MMOs need goodwill between the player base and the developers and I don't think this change will do much for goodwill.

I think a better way would have been to eliminate ghost training but give something back in return.

You wouldn't have got the kind of negative feedback if you a) admitted that it was freely given in the past and not a bug that needed fixing but CCP was losing a lot of revenue that could have been put back into the game.

And b), to compensate for the change CCP is implementing a training scheduler into the account management section of the website which will allow you to alter what is currently being trained and queue up skills to be trained allowing players to maximize their training and be able to alter training outside of the client. Kinda like EVEMon but only that the planner will change what is currently being trained.

I think people would have thought it is a shame to lose ghost training but we are getting a fantastic tool instead. A big negative for me is if I go away for 3 months I lose a lot of training unless I get someone else to manage it and that isn't ideal.

ATM players are losing a feature that was a selling point of the game and getting nada in return. Not the best "people management" strategy.

xOmGx
Gallente
A-Priori
Red Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:28:00 - [1280]
 

Yes kill production/RP generation/Trade offers...

If ppl's telling the truth and iven with credit card non stop subscribtion thay can have 1 day inactive... and if production stops (meaning loosing of all materialls)..
and if this charr will be involven in Titan/mothership construction, well you got my point.


Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:28:00 - [1281]
 

Originally by: xOmGx
i cheked few names thay are not exist in eve anymore... so it's true ppl's deleting their accaunts

... or those of your friends you arranged to check have recycled their posting alts....

We'll see that same about this as we've seen for all other emoragequit issues... 5 players out of the 5000 threatening to do so will quit, with 4 of them coming back within a month or two....

Nobody likes to do without their free lunch, but they'll accept paying for lunch when they get hungry.

Glengrant
Beyond Limited
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:28:00 - [1282]
 

Originally by: Mike Vandenberg
Right now I run 3 accounts. By the end of this year it will be only 1. Why? Because I cannot Ghost-Train anymore.

-2 accounts

Mike Vandenberg


Your "tone" suggests this is a bad thing (and whether it is for CCPs bottom line or not - shrug - they know best).
But to me that sounds *good*.

A bunch of alts gone that don't get played much - perhaps kept in incubation to be sold later - hurray.

Of course when you say "run 3 accounts" you made it sound all impressive - but actually you don't usually "run" those 2 accounts or GT would not be an issue for you.
So it's anything between 1.5 to 2.x accounts - depending on your percentage of GT months.

Somebody else canceling 6 accounts due to GT - probably only a net loss of ca 1-3 accounts.

I would love to see a statistic about how many people threatening to quit over something actually do go ahead with it and never come back. I'm sure it's less than 100% - but could be anything between 10 or 90.

Miss CJB
Gallente
In White Suits
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:29:00 - [1283]
 

theres more than once person in ccp? right?

how can 2 or more people make such a monumentaly stupid decision?

nobody wins in this situation, not eavon ccp.

i have as many accounts active as i can afford to have active. the change just means instead of haveing 7 accounts w/ 3-5 active, i will now only have 3 accounts. as you can see, ccp is clearly loseing money.

the dev blog is aload of ball ****, its full of lies AND was published half a day befor its due to go live. get the fealing there trying to sneek this one under the raidar?
then realised that if people dont know about it, they cant resub there alts, so better tell them.

i have to admit, i am flabagasted that ccp, not only could consider doing this, but do it with only 1/2 a days notace, with aload of boched up excuses which a 2 yearold could see through.

comeone ccp, what happend to the days when you listend to your playerbase?

Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:29:00 - [1284]
 

Originally by: Glengrant

CCP/EVE is nothing like SoE/SWG.



No they are not, but they are trying to be. That is what makes it all moronic.

Tzaris
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:31:00 - [1285]
 

LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE LIE

I dont like when someone who takes my money lies to me in return...

Confuzer
Volition Cult
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:32:00 - [1286]
 

Edited by: Confuzer on 14/10/2008 09:33:40
I totally agree on the change. I was a bug, and it was weird is was never fixed.

But:

- Why now? With the economic thing. Your timing sucks and you know it.

- "But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions."

Right, no way it weighs heavy in any way. You use indexes and start timers for a skill which act on events from clients. We are talking about a row coupling a user to a skill he is training and a start time. That's it. Did you get bilions of new users all of a sudden? Because your database can take MUCH, and you know it. So avalanche? not really. And if so, please explain this to a fellow programmer?

yarrmarr
Trans-Solar Works
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:32:00 - [1287]
 

Originally by: Wodanonline
well i understand.
But at least be honest and say its a way to make more money for ccp.

dont use lame excuses that are true but is not the real reason.


this.

what a sneaky move CCP. nailing customers is never a good businessmodel in the long run. add my two accounts to the thrashlist.

Midas Man
Caldari
Dzark Innovations
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:38:00 - [1288]
 

First the F*** about with GTC pricing and cause GTC for ISK to increase drastically.

Now alot of people running multiple account cannot afford to keep them all active and so have taken to "ghost" Training on a few account and rotating them around. So CCP nerf that.

Unless you are in a huge corp that can field Blobs, Nano is your only option of remaining "relatively" safe. Nerf is coming on that.


All the new feature of the game seem to be aimed at New players.

A game that is 5 years old will find it difficult to compete for new players, not impossible as Eve gets its fair share but it will never get 1 million new customer in a month releasing a new player feature.

CCP you should realise that most of your income comes from player who have been around for years and all your doing at the moment is going round hitting all your paying customer with a nerf bat.

Look at your current stratagy and change it because right now your walking down a path to destruction especially when there are new competitors in the making.


Shevar
Minmatar
Target Practice incorporated
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:39:00 - [1289]
 

Edited by: Shevar on 14/10/2008 09:40:49
This should have been done 4 years ago if you didn't intend this "feature".

Not now.

The only way I can see this being implemented with just a bit of grumbling instead of an outcry is if you would have implemented a proper skill que and "needed" to disable ghost training to avoid year long skill plans being "ghost trained".

Gaurina
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.10.14 09:42:00 - [1290]
 

I don't know why I'm replying to this topic since it will most likely just get lost in the flood of replies, but here goes.

I first started playing this game in end of April 2006 and have since then only taken one break from it for about 6 months or so. It was really lovely to return to the game on 2 accounts with battleship trained to lvl5 while I was away. I actually didn't plan on returning but was glad that I did because since then I've been playing almost non stop and along the way I have met a lot of people and made good friends.

Being Icelandic and all I suddenly faced having to pay double or even triple the amount for my next subscription compared to my last and being the optimistic I am, I believe that we as a nation will recover very soon. Because of this current crisis I saw myself forced to cancel my subscription on all 3 accounts to be able to pay my other bills and keep on living. I do not have a mission alt (yet) that I can use to make ISK and buy GTC, I don't have high end moons that can pay my subscription and my industry is just big enough to pay for my ships. I don't have these things because I don't believe that when I come home from work I should get to another one, EvE is entertainment to me and not work.

2 weeks after I cancel my subscription this announcement comes. I feel that I'm being betrayed by the company that I've paid so much money to and shown support and dedication to over the years.

Support from CCP has been going downhill for the past months in my opinion and this is just the icing on cake, cherry on top, rúsínan í pylsuendanum... ( icelandic saying, no need to translate but it's not rude ). This lack of support is between me and CCP and I will not go into that further.

So where do I stand?

I was going to leave my 3 subscriptions inactive for about 2 or 3 months while the current crisis balanced itself out and renew it after that time. From day one of my playing this feature has been enabled and I've actually advertised the game to people with this feature as one of the best. I can't keep my subscription active for the time being and with this latest move from CCP I see absolutely no reason to reactivate my accounts once things balance out.

Enough whine, time to get some cheese.


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