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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:23:00 - [1201]
 

ccp said they would never remove this 'feature' when its cancelation slipped into the news for some update a year ago and that this would only apply to the chinese server..

well..

That is the first time ccp is bloody lying into my face and I'm really really angry about that.


chiisai sakana
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:23:00 - [1202]
 

Edited by: chiisai sakana on 14/10/2008 08:23:32
1)make a bug
2)call it a feature
3)make it a selling point
4)gather players
5)say that the feature is a bug in a way that could't fool a 4 year old.
6)??????
7)proffit

Princess Minnie
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:23:00 - [1203]
 

"That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug."

I was one of those subscribers that suffered from the bug where you had to buy the original game for $80. Since that bug has been fixed and new players are now provided the initial game for free, is there any chance that CCP would refund our initial outlay?

you know given that "it's not fair towards other players that paid a fee for the box but don't make use of this new free game bug."

12433412
Freemason Core
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:24:00 - [1204]
 

Originally by: Zartoll
Thank you CCP!! I agree that someone should not be allowed to train their account while their subscription is inactive no matter the so-called justification on their part. If you don't pay for gas to put into your car then your car runs out and stops... should be no different here. I never liked the fact that people were doing this and will never agree that it should have been or should be allowed. As for the people that keep stating that CCP is just a money-grubbing company, I say to you, start your own MMO and give it away for free. I do not agree with everything that CCP does but this is one decision that I whole-heartedly agree with!


the thing is car company tell you your car can go twice as far as any other one and then you get stuck in the middle of the highway, how is that for comparision, i would have never started my alt account if i knew this was coming and would have saved some effort and money

Col Callahan
Caldari
Boogie Monsters
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:24:00 - [1205]
 

Edited by: Col Callahan on 14/10/2008 08:31:12
Quote:
We truly hope that the community will understand our actions and continue to enjoy playing EVE as much as we enjoy making it. Torfi Frans Olafsson Senior Producer of EVE Online


No, the community will not understand your actions when you sold this as a "feature" no more then a 2 years ago to get more people to subscribe to the game so. So you are out right lining to us when you say that this has been a bug that you ignored.

Well lets step back and ask our self's why this trend started, The worlds economy is failing apart at the seems and some people can't afford 30 bucks a month or 360USD a year and more for the Euros.

Now you will see what happens when people are forced sell off there alt accounts and only can afford one account. You think your profit margin is bad now because of this trend, you ant seen nothing yet you greedy sods

Bad move Torfi, very bad indeed, but hey, its only your employees necks on the line, I'm sure Eve has already set you up for life.

Ava Baby
Paxton Industries
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:25:00 - [1206]
 

Edited by: Ava Baby on 14/10/2008 08:26:56
Edited by: Ava Baby on 14/10/2008 08:26:32
Edited by: Ava Baby on 14/10/2008 08:25:53
All this posting is pointless. It's harder to ignore phone calls Smile


Here is a link to CCP's Company contact page and top management page

http://www.ccpgames.com/company/contact.asp

http://www.ccpgames.com/company/management.asp


Iceland
Corporate Tel: (+354) 540 9100

USA
404-292-1819

Sorry CCP

Be sure to be calm about it when talking and refrain from using profanity as it will only lead to a DCExclamation

Also, the higher up you get on the chain, the likely you will see a result.

Princess Gally
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:27:00 - [1207]
 

Thanks CCP! It was about time you do something against alts and multi accounts Very Happy

Llywellyn
Blind Rebirth
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:28:00 - [1208]
 

I am going to bet, most people are going to pay up!

Personally this is fine, I already pay on my accounts no matter the time played on it.

CCP will now have a steady subscriber base and be able to make better financial projection when you don’t have 100,000 accounts going active, inactive, inactive, active…..
I support the change, I do recall a long time ago it was said to be a bug, back long ago before you of these whiners even knew about eve.

EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:28:00 - [1209]
 

Originally by: Traxio Nacho
I am waiting for the

"Oh by the way guys forgot to say the next patch will cost you €20"

Very Happy


.... oh, and €30 to uninstall it

NereSky
Gallente
RETRIBUTIONS.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:30:00 - [1210]
 

Originally by: Delos Korelian
Originally by: Jinx Barker

... ever since the "old" guard of the developers left active EVE online roles CCP customer service, CCP customer attunes, and general CCP attitude toward its player base has gone to ****.




Aint that the truth


Qft

James Marshalll
Gallente
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:31:00 - [1211]
 

Originally by: Bedrock
Can all the quiters plz contract me your stuffs?Laughing


Or we can just go back to the old days, you know, where you guys got T2 BPO's for free. Ohhh right, they banned the guy who found out your corp / ccp were a bunch of cheaters and they banned him for account sharing /lulz.


take some advice, you and your corp are the last hypocrites that should ever step foot in ANY forum post about ccp and bad decisions. Ahh but you know I guess all those people who felt cheated back then were just whiners too and should take it up the ass and just go with the flow.. I mean its not YOU getting screwed right?

Clone 1
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:31:00 - [1212]
 

LIES



Devblog:
"Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills."

But in the Official player guide

Player Guide:
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
Linkage
Just in case

Even when taking a secound chance to explain the action, you still mess it up.

Hypan
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:31:00 - [1213]
 

so in a year where you have removed 30 and 90 day time codes, replacing it with a 60day code for teh same price as teh old 90day one, making it more expencive to play.

you have also in your great wisdom decided to f**k even more players off and loose more accounts while you try to ring out more $ from your player base

You ccp have your heads up your arse, as your hands try to rob the content of our wallets, while mubbling s**t about design features and industry standards

Hypan

Rinaldo Titano
Caldari
Caldari Elite Force
Apocalypse Now.
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:31:00 - [1214]
 

Fully agree with the move to disable the training inactive accounts

,BUT.......

It would be a right move if u would in other part give advantage to peoples which actively play, and use things in the game....If u training offline or a skill training should be unaffected, but if u fly a commandship in space, and u dont have lvl 5 u should get for this extra skillpoints.

With this move newer players would have a chance to get higher skills if they play a lot(naturally some check should be built in, not just give a curse to a ship in highsec and afk). Or for example should give extra xp after every usage of a weapon class, for example after every 100 small blaster ammo shooted..etc.

This move would show u honor your players and give an advantage on playing the game and u dont make just changes which grow your incom... after this u can say u dont greedy

Stormwind Bloodfeather
Minmatar
Fer Lomarcan
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:32:00 - [1215]
 

Edited by: Stormwind Bloodfeather on 14/10/2008 08:34:09
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar
Originally by: Traxio Nacho
I am waiting for the

"Oh by the way guys forgot to say the next patch will cost you €20"

Very Happy


.... oh, and €30 to uninstall it


Oh and don't forget the new charge being implemented on the 31st of €5 per forum whine post. Laughing Oh hell, i'm screwed!Shocked

Stormwind


Hamlin Brown
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:32:00 - [1216]
 

So you have to pay to play the game, thats the idea stupid.

If you want to train skills then pay for it, don't cry like a baby when a bug is fixed. What happens if the whole player base starts doing this? We won't have a game ? Do you think the programmers work for free ?

The best things in life are free, eve is not one of them.

Skogen Gump
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:33:00 - [1217]
 

Apart from all these quitters (who ostensibly don't play anyway ?) how is this change going to effect me/my alliance/the rest of eve ?

Will this cause less lag, stopping all this Database activity ?

Basically, will this have a knock on effect that helps those of us who still choose to be here , paying to play ?
If not, please CCP consider the alienation you're causing ... there are bigger and better things to be fixing that impact on the gameplay of the many thousands of accounts that do log in every day!

Col Callahan
Caldari
Boogie Monsters
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:34:00 - [1218]
 

Originally by: clone 1

LIES



Devblog:
"Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills."

But in the Official player guide

Player Guide:
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
Linkage
Just in case

Even when taking a secound chance to explain the action, you still mess it up.


OMG I love you, Proof for every one to see. LIES LIES DIRTY FILTHY GREEDY LIES.

Marcus Wyld
Caldari
BlackSky inc.
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:34:00 - [1219]
 

I don't particularly like that this is happening, because it increases the cost of training characters without any ability to keep a skill constantly training. The whole ghost training kind of worked as an equalizer for my characters I could at least take a break and know that my skills would still train and make up for all those times when I was too busy to change the skill.

That being said I don't believe that it's as much to punish people just trying to salvage training time in a down economic time. Unless I'm reading these wrong it's more to ensure that there is a strong enough cash flow to offset the 300% increase in development costs and 428% increase in debt liabilities for what I hope our extra goodies for the server. CCP Investor Page

It is getting increasingly expensive to borrow anyway and this is probably the only alternative for ccp.

This action won't make me any more likely to reactivate my alt though. Rolling Eyes

Scurvy Rickett
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:34:00 - [1220]
 

Minmatar balltship 5 37 days, Minmatar cruiser 5 23 days. That's 2 months of paid subscription to train just 2 skills. I need those in order to use alot of t2 ships and carriers, if i want to make the most out of my character they can't be ignored.

If you are going to make this permanant then change the ridiculously long lvl 5 skills.

-1 or 2 accounts

ccp you really f**ked up with this one

Vikarion
Caldari
State Trade Consortium
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:35:00 - [1221]
 

Ok, I've already canceled 1 alt account...Teris Thurinson was the char name. I was considering starting him up again, but not now. Nuh-uh.

And I may just cancel my other alt. Heck, with the way CCP keeps screwing its players over, I fully anticipate being required to pay for expansions soon.

When that happens, I'm gone. And, BTW, CCP, I'm going to make sure to inform any of my friends who are considering using your "product" about your simply disgusting customer service and community relations, not to mention the fact that I'll be asking them not to even try the WoD MMO of yours.

Heck, one of them even works for a game site. I think I'll see if I can get him to treat it like treated sewage. Twisted Evil

Vek NaVek
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:35:00 - [1222]
 

Lol, the Devblog (PanicBlog) just made it worse Very Happy


rens research
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:35:00 - [1223]
 

Originally by: clone 1

LIES



Devblog:
"Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills."

But in the Official player guide

Player Guide:
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
Linkage
Just in case

Even when taking a secound chance to explain the action, you still mess it up.


can we make this txt bigger so ccp can see how bad they are at telling lies Laughing

The man speaks the truth

Zsani
Caldari
Nefantar Tribe
The Wrong Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:37:00 - [1224]
 

Nice to see after the last night that ccp deleting and moderating everything they can in a hurry.

Well they can kiss my a.. from now on. 2 alt accounts already canceled.

Lies will be still lies CCP!!!4 Even if you tries to hide them, people will know it and will never come back.

Byes

Eldar Boon
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:37:00 - [1225]
 

I believe that removing the "ghost training" documented feature, is terrible way to treat your loyal customers. To claim it is a bug is despicable behavior; to remove the feature without warning, and shortly after a campaign to encourage people to take on extra accounts shows little respect to your player base.

dojocan81
Caminus Trux Germani
Ewoks
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:37:00 - [1226]
 

Originally by: Lijhal
i do not understand, why after 5 years, they are changing this "feature" of EvE-Online into a "bug" ... 5 god damned years !!!

So, if you are going to change this, please consider to give the player base following options:

Player Base
1. movement of characters for FREE onto other accounts, for, lets say, a month

2. the option to merge existing characters into one

3. Skill Queque

4. All characters on one Account can learn Skills



this!

nathaniel flanders
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:38:00 - [1227]
 

Ghost training was THE major reason to create a second account for me as well. And it still is a major feature when i try to pursuade friends to reactivate their accounts, as they could play another game for the time beeing and not fall behind in skillpoints. Nokidding, it works with 2 of them from time to time.

What makes me angry is that it was advertised as a feature, now it's a bug. Even more that this information comes only 2 days ahead.

The only good thing with this is, that i won't extend my 2nd accounts subscription. Multi accounts and alts suck.

Mr Horizontal
Gallente
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:40:00 - [1228]
 

The Good

Good for Elder players
This protects older players being able to have an advantage in the game over younger players.

Cleaner subs
It provides CCP with a cleaner subscription base. Not bigger or smaller, it means that players will justify the number of accounts they have.

The Bad

Bad for Younger players
At 2 years, I'm on the young side of a middle aged player. However, my contemporaries are all double my SP, and I'm having to fly side-by-side with players who are twice as skilled as I.

Now I have achieved a hell of a lot in EVE. I have Capitals, I look after over a trillion ISK of other people's money (EBANK), I make more ISK than I need, and I have never needed to use Ghost Training, since I can justify all 15 characters I use across all my 5 accounts.

What I have done, though, is buy pre-trained characters, who have in all likelihood used Ghost Training to get the character to a saleable level. A lot of people who aren't so good at making money in EVE train characters as a profession. This therefore really hurts both the trainers and buyers.

The necessary alt spam
There are also quite stringent limitations on characters. As I said, I have 15 characters, 5 of which are highly skilled and specialised. All the others are a variety of:
- Trade alts, in different empires to ensure I can sell anywhere in EVE, and be able to check prices across the EVE Galaxy.
- Cyno alts, a really nasty but necessary character to be able to use capitals at all
- R&D and Manufacturing alts. Because of the stringent limitations in manufacturing and research slots you have per character, every single one of my characters has the necessary skills to run 9 R&D jobs and 9 manufacturing jobs. That's 135 slots for each, and you know what? It's still not enough! Skills should be boosted significantly to accomodate more slots per toon.

The Ugly

Research points
No mention has been made whether R&D research points will be halted, but I suspect that you haven't considered this yet. If you do stop RP gains, this becomes a good point, but it's ugly while it's still around. By stopping RP, this will make RP and datacores more valuable, thus rebalancing invention somewhat - a much needed move.

Skill training lengths
You have made a big problem for yourselves CCP with being careless in deciding the skill ranks. I believe any skills in progression that have a difference of 2 or more need to be reconsidered. For example ship classes having a difference of two ranks from Frigate to Cruiser need to only be one. The problem is that players join EVE and spend a year finding the game they want to play. After that year, they specialise more and more in the game they have chosen.

You need to allow players who really play EVE to the fullest be able to match and surpass their contemporaries. Ghost Training allowed this, but now it's not there and all players will always now have a glass ceiling.

Festering bug
Now, I don't like exploits as much as you do CCP, and I agree that Ghost Training isn't something that's particularly good for the game.

However, you've let it fester for so long, that it's part of the game now, and changing it like this really upsets a lot of people's play and fun in EVE. I strongly urge you to reconsider being a little more gentle on this.

What I propose is that you stop skill training 30 days after a character has been deactivated. This would be fair, to stop the people really abusing the exploit, while not penalising absolutely everyone.

If this was a bug, why wasn't it removed at the beginning of the game, like 2004 at the very latest?

rens research
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:43:00 - [1229]
 

Originally by: Mr Horizontal

However, you've let it fester for so long, that it's part of the game now, and changing it like this really upsets a lot of people's play and fun in EVE.



IT IS NOT A BUG

CCP even sell it as a feature of the game as per the players guide

Alleneara
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:44:00 - [1230]
 

Originally by: Zartoll
Thank you CCP!! I agree that someone should not be allowed to train their account while their subscription is inactive no matter the so-called justification on their part. If you don't pay for gas to put into your car then your car runs out and stops... should be no different here.

It's more like an airplane going out of gas, at which point you can't really control it much, but you'll still be moving... for a while. Then it stops. Just like Ghost Training.


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