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Glengrant
Beyond Limited
Posted - 2008.12.27 22:35:00 - [5941]
 

Yes - I wrote too much in this thread. :-)

Reducing reply rate and wordage now.

have fun

Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.12.28 02:33:00 - [5942]
 

Originally by: Glengrant

Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
b) Apparent lack of action on the starbase exploit.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


That horse has been flogged beyond dead already. IMHO it's safe to assume that restoring old DBs and looking through mountains of data to follow money trails and verifying what's legit or not is a time-consuming activity.


Yet the update we received was when? 19th December? It may take a long time to wade through the data, however to put out another update just to say they are still investigating would be welcomed.

It's really just good customer service.

Originally by: Glengrant

Originally by: Oilio


Well, that's my last character subscription that runs out in a couple of hours. Won't be able to post anymore, but will still read the forums


Why bother?


Oh come on now Glengrant. You've been doing such a good job in your arguments up until this point.
There's a variety of reasons why someone may 'bother' with reading the forums after they leave. Finding out how this and the starbase exploit all plays out are just one two of them.

Originally by: Squirrrel

Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson


I guess people who pay for something don't like being lied to or patronised as if they were mindless children.


Nobody likes that. But don't tell me that you really think CCP is a big offender in this regard.
Almost every ad I see on TV or in cinemas is an insult.
That washing powder is really making my clothes whiter or more colorful and smell that much better than any other detergent before?
Food never looks as tasty as on the cover.


That's a totally different argument. In that sense, it's just like the EvE teasers/trailers, that are not really a true reflection of the game.
Unsubbed training was not an advertisment to me. Sure it may have indirectly been to some other people drawn to the game, however once they bought into it and it did what it said it would - it's a feature.

Are they a big offender in my opinion. Yes. They pretty much have been on a few occasions.


Originally by: Squirrrel

Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson

The big deal is that they didn't just call it like it was from the beginning.


I agree with the latter part - but still don't get what the big deal is. Also I'm convinced that this thread would still be here regardless of what they said.
OTOH nobody would think anything is wrong or unusual if GT never worked from the beginning.
It was there for years - then they shut it down. The reasons given don't really make a difference.
It's just something to cling to for lack of better arguments.


Er... eh? You've totally lost me there. Yes, this thread would likely be here regardless of what they said; you're right no one would think it was wrong or unusual if it never worked from the beginning; yes the reasons they give do make a difference.

They make a difference, in that, to be honest, I personally wouldn't have posted much in this thread if the lies hadn't appeared. That really ****ed me off.
Yet, even if the lies hadn't been told, the arguments in this thread would still have a degree of validity, yet I dont't think as strong.

It's really not 'something to cling to for lack of better arguments' - It IS the argument!

Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.12.28 02:58:00 - [5943]
 

Originally by: Glengrant

A company get bigger it gets a dedicated marketing department - and they just can't help themselves. They need to try to spin everything in the best sounding way they can come up with.
I believe I just have more realistic expectations what the baseline is here. I judge companies not on some ideal everybody fells short of - but a reasonable standard that some can manage to exceed, while others fail even that.

Perhaps CCP in the end is not much better than usual - but I don't see how they are worse than typical marketing bla bla.


I believe you're perhaps more blindly optomsitic without wishing to be offensive Glengrant. Either that, or you've perhaps not come across the poor quality customer service many of us have; or possibly don't have many other MMO's to weigh it up against as a package... I don't know which it is.
CCP have an uncanny knack of making me think "Oh, why did they do that?" at nearly every turn in recent years when dealing publicly with things.

Originally by: Glengrant

It's an MMOG. I dislike it when people several accounts to fill all roles (capital + cyno, miner + hauler, tackler + damage) instead of having mates to complement with.



I love the way that most people tend to perceive MMO's as being compulsary team games.
Appearing in the same universe as other avatars of other real people does not mean you should team up with people at all.
Back to the WAR reference you made in an earlier post about what it says about those games that you can technically level so fast... well, in EvE you can't. End of story.
You can't power level or meta game your way to being a jack of all trades, master of them too and try your hand at everything.
Well, not unless you use the ISK you generate to purchase a character or 4, which is one of CCP's golden decisions.

Everyone tends to recommend that new players sort out their learning skills first too, which a lot of new players will follow... what does THAT say about EvE that if they think they want to stick around for a while in the game; some are bored before they see much of the game?

The skills system used to be a feature. Many people loved it. Now it's become more of a chore, a bore and tool to fleece money more out of people with.

It's not at all because I fell out of love with the game that I appear bitter - It's the fact that I've come to feel more like a cash cow and an unpaid game-tester than a valued customer.

Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.12.28 03:02:00 - [5944]
 

Originally by: Glengrant
Yes - I wrote too much in this thread. :-)

Reducing reply rate and wordage now.

have fun



Oh and happy holidays. Smile

8Z 6
Posted - 2008.12.28 08:13:00 - [5945]
 

Originally by: Squirrrel
It's not at all because I fell out of love with the game that I appear bitter - It's the fact that I've come to feel more like a cash cow and an unpaid game-tester than a valued customer.



signed

Chani Fedaykin
Posted - 2008.12.28 12:30:00 - [5946]
 

i have to admit, since glentrant showed up, the quality of this thread has improved ^^
nevertheless, this is most likely my last reply for some time again (5days passed)...

Originally by: Glengrant
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson
a) CCPs attitude to arbitrarily changing a major feature of the game, and then claiming it to be a 'bugfix'.
Care to mention what you are talking about? ...
most likely the unpaid training fix aka 'ghost' training

Originally by: Glengrant
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson
d) CCPs insistence on billing in Euros across europe (including non-euro countries) makes EVE very expensive for anyone in the UK.
That the pound has been loosing value due to recent financial market turmoil is hardly CCPs fault.
Whether they charge in EUR or Pound makes no difference - as they would charge pounds according to the exchange rate- same as your bank does when it exchanges your pounds to EUR.
partially agreed ... however they dont charge according to the exchange rate for us customers...?

Originally by: Glengrant
Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson
and until CCP have learned they cant just alienate vast swathes of the player base by making major changes with no warning or explanation.
I don't remember a single change ever that came without warning or explanation.
All changes were on sisi before release and people always discussed them at least weeks before they hit TQ.
how about the 'bugfix' that is the reason for this whole thread?
Originally by: Glengrant
Originally by: oilio
Well, that's my last character subscription that runs out in a couple of hours. Won't be able to post anymore, but will still read the forums Smile

Why bother?
see Squirrrels reply...

Originally by: Glengrant
Originally by: Squirrrel

I guess people who pay for something don't like being lied to or patronised as if they were mindless children.
Nobody likes that. But don't tell me that you really think CCP is a big offender in this regard.
well, its enough for me to show my displeasment by not paying ... but thats just my choice

Originally by: Glengrant
Originally by: Squirrrel
The big deal is that they didn't just call it like it was from the beginning.
I agree with the latter part - but still don't get what the big deal is. Also I'm convinced that this thread would still be here regardless of what they said.
OTOH nobody would think anything is wrong or unusual if GT never worked from the beginning.
It was there for years - then they shut it down. The reasons given don't really make a difference.
It's just something to cling to for lack of better arguments.
its called crm ... which is (or should be) vital for a company dealing with customers. and its the reason why i decided not to pay a single account now. the thread would be there, but less 'massive' - and less players would be '****ed'.

have fun - as usual ^^


Sylfamas
Caldari
Solar Nexus.
Ethereal Dawn
Posted - 2008.12.30 06:52:00 - [5947]
 

Well this is probably the heaven of isk sellers... people will buy isk to pay their extra accounts because ghost training is no more.

Oh and because they are a company...they will start charging the expansions i guess...just like wow, only much cheaper-per-expansion, especially now when they are also available on retail. Good luck CCP in your quest for obscene profits.

Garnet Alf
Posted - 2008.12.30 16:52:00 - [5948]
 

Edited by: Garnet Alf on 30/12/2008 16:52:00
Originally by: Sylfamas
Oh and because they are a company...they will start charging the expansions i guess...just like wow, only much cheaper-per-expansion, especially now when they are also available on retail. Good luck CCP in your quest for obscene profits.


They already charge for expansions. When they have extra downtime to install these expansion patches, and then the patch for the expansion patch and then the patch for the patch, it is done on time we have already paid for.

Alice Writer
Posted - 2008.12.30 16:55:00 - [5949]
 

I was disappointed about the GT decision. I have always been a casual Eve player and unfair advantage or not lapsed skill training was always the reason I reactivated my account over the last year, even though rl issues prevented me from actively playing the game. Now that its gone I will have so much less reason to dip into Eve again.

My sincerest hope that CCP will listen to the community and bring GT back.

Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.12.30 18:45:00 - [5950]
 

Originally by: Alice Writer

My sincerest hope that CCP will listen to the community and bring GT back.


If it comes back it's unlikely to be because they listened to the community.

Their financial department is a better bet in my opinion.

fried eggs
Caldari
Posted - 2008.12.31 15:48:00 - [5951]
 

Originally by: Squirrrel
Originally by: Alice Writer

My sincerest hope that CCP will listen to the community and bring GT back.


If it comes back it's unlikely to be because they listened to the community.

Their financial department is a better bet in my opinion.
Sad...but true.

Fawziyyah
Posted - 2008.12.31 22:48:00 - [5952]
 

Happy new year to all of you.

Hopes of CCP to bring back off sub. training...

See you all next year.

Squirrrel
Gallente
Squirrrel Industries
Posted - 2008.12.31 23:59:00 - [5953]
 

Originally by: Fawziyyah
Happy new year to all of you.

Hopes of CCP to bring back off sub. training...

See you all next year.


Yeah, same from me - Happy New Year to those that left already and those that stuck around.

Nearly made it to 200 before the end of the year - and in all that time, no reply from CCP to the thread.
That's pretty sad to see, however understandable. Guess there's not much point them getting into an argument on their own forums with us - especially since the dubbed clueless-commandos did it on their behalf.

I'm also wondering why everything fell so silent on the Starbase exploit. 19th December was the last offical word about that, and no even an update to say no new evidence has come to light, or any further bans etc.

I hope for those that have stuck around that the new year hold something different, and regardless of my point of view or opinions, I wish everyone including all CCP employees, Ranger1 and Mr T0rfins and his good lady a Happy New Year.

/raises glass.

Gorek Loc
Rising Ashes Inc.
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2009.01.01 10:52:00 - [5954]
 

happy new year all...

Now if only we got a gift from CCCP for this new year... such as training with inactive accounts, like the intention was from the initial release. An offer that would make players get back to the game after a long time away.

Leica Stroganow
Posted - 2009.01.03 20:31:00 - [5955]
 

A happy new year to all

Dr Westler
Posted - 2009.01.05 19:58:00 - [5956]
 

Well that's most of my subs finally ended - only a few more days left on this one and then I'm gone too.

I do hope the weather specialists who have spent time looking into the Snowball/temperature issue fair better than the Economy Specialist. Wink


Gabriel Virtus
hirr
Posted - 2009.01.05 21:51:00 - [5957]
 

CCP is phail. They are bsing through their teeth and they know it. They do not have a valid argument for the reasons they disabled ghost training (this was a word that they coined in order to make it sound bad). No one is taking anything, they are paying for a service that was taken from them without a decent excuse. CCP is complete fail on this topic.

-GV

Dr Westler
Posted - 2009.01.05 22:17:00 - [5958]
 

Originally by: Gabriel Virtus
CCP is phail. They are bsing through their teeth and they know it. They do not have a valid argument for the reasons they disabled ghost training (this was a word that they coined in order to make it sound bad). No one is taking anything, they are paying for a service that was taken from them without a decent excuse. CCP is complete fail on this topic.

-GV


Yeah but 45k users and some snowballs. They have been working hard on other stuff and making a good boast about their figures.

Wonder how many of those were 5 day trials.

8Z 6
Posted - 2009.01.05 23:00:00 - [5959]
 

42,000

Clone 3688
Posted - 2009.01.06 08:37:00 - [5960]
 

Originally by: 8Z 6
Originally by: Squirrrel
It's not at all because I fell out of love with the game that I appear bitter - It's the fact that I've come to feel more like a cash cow and an unpaid game-tester than a valued customer.



signed



same here, this is the main reason im 2 accts lighter. oh well. thx ccp for making it easier for me to quit

Anla'Lexie
Posted - 2009.01.07 06:45:00 - [5961]
 

Twisted EvilYou guys are truely twisted!!! Starting to turn into a corperate cut throat game just like all the corperate cut throat companies out their for their own selfish intrest rather than the gamer. Noone considers the **** gamers have to go through from power to cable to cell phones to rent to food to cell phone to the one $15 dollar mmo we can dish in after everything is paid for only to get killed over and over again by characters that have trained 4-6 grulling years and still you havent even come close to training all those skills. Your have evolved the game but training speeds never change the same grulling slow pace it has allways been...and 94 million for a +5 implant that might shave 2 days off a 30 day level 5 skill WoW i feel so blessed, not.
You have really taken the fun out of this game as there should be something we gamers should enjoy while we aren't constantly dishing money at you people.
Noone remebers the time mom and pop places used to send you flowers for shopping at their place. It's a shame CCP has been added to the corperate junkies

Chris Stormrider
Gallente
IDEON ANDRON
Posted - 2009.01.07 10:27:00 - [5962]
 

time for page 200 and post 6000...
go threadnought!

Wideen
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2009.01.07 12:06:00 - [5963]
 

I agree with all the negative criticism posted above in almost 200 Exclamation pages.

Really poor move, discrediting on your part and unmotivating on ours

8Z 6
Posted - 2009.01.07 18:34:00 - [5964]
 

With this many pages, this many posts, and this many thread views, a cccp representative has yet to make any sort of reply or acknowledgment. Customer appreciation, ftw.

Fawziyyah
Posted - 2009.01.07 21:17:00 - [5965]
 

I just want to say that EVE is dying for me... one out of three accounts, my RL is taking over, and I won't have incentive to come back...

Chris Tao
Posted - 2009.01.07 22:38:00 - [5966]
 

So CCP do you have anything to say?

Amitious Turkey
Gallente
TarNec
Posted - 2009.01.08 00:19:00 - [5967]
 

page 200 yet?

:[

Baseline Model
Posted - 2009.01.08 14:57:00 - [5968]
 

Originally by: Amitious Turkey
page 200 yet?
:[


Not yet! :)

Torana Dench
Posted - 2009.01.08 15:37:00 - [5969]
 

So here I was about to enter the details of my new Credit Card so I can continue my subscription of this MMO and I thought about the financial pressure then the light went on....Idea

"I know.. I can just suspend my account for a few weeks until I get my next paycheck then pick up where I left off AND I can train one of those nasty 27day lvl5 skills " Very Happy

Go to the page to suspend the account and cannot find any details... 'thats funny, I'm sure you can do it here somewhere'

Do a search in the forum and I find THIS!!!! Smile Sad Shocked Crying or Very sad Evil or Very Mad

I have been reading for over 2 hours now and I could not add anything that has not yet been said, implied, or suggested.

Except this:
It is probably a GOOD thing CCP has not added the ability to delete an account.
Because I think I would have rage deleted by now!!!

Needless to say that my subscription will simply end in a few days and it may be many months before I return.

GRRRRRRRRRRRR

Zebba
Black Hats
Posted - 2009.01.08 15:48:00 - [5970]
 

We are working on it. Because the issue is still there even in 2009. And personally: I'm still waiting for an apologize for the short notice.


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