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Gara Al'Malik
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:54:00 - [4021]
 

Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Oh no another two CCP alt like
Gara Al'Malik and Shar Tegral


The tinfoil brigade strikes again! Laughing

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:54:00 - [4022]
 

Originally by: Midas Man
oh and by the way Copy and Pasting intullectual information from Wiki doesn't make you smart.
It appears reading is not your strong suit. The link did not go to any Wiki.

Self pwnzor 4tl.
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
Oh no another two CCP alt like
Gara Al'Malik and Shar Tegral

<snip>

Hey dudes your bad thinking will be ruin the EVE.
And you guys will be stay alone in the game, but that's will just a black cat for 14.99$
Yes, you found me out. Somehow for 6 years I've hidden the fact that I work for CCP. Damn, you are such a genius to see through my clever disguise.

Might I ask, what part of Eve have you improved? I know what aspects I've had a hand in improving.. and the latest one is the one making you cry. Please, whine/troll on, you only make me prouder of the fact that I had a hand in it.

Maybe I will apply to CCP... when hell freezes over of course but thanks for insulting CCP that way!

3PA
Canis Canem Edit
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:55:00 - [4023]
 

Finally this "injustice" will be fixed. For me that will mean two alts down, more ISK grinding, less fun - and most probably quit. and no, you can't have my stuff because it all goes to the people spending $$$ on GTCs and selling them. so much for in-game balance.

Rethie
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:57:00 - [4024]
 

When reading up before subscription, considering all my cost of living etc, the thing that eventually made me sub was inactive training, for the fact of real life commitments, at least if I could not sub, I could come back and with some pre planning, have advanced a level on something.

-1 when it runs out

and no you cant have my stuff or isk, it can just die with me

DJ Geist
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:01:00 - [4025]
 

I can't believe after this many responses, varied complaints, and suggested compromises CCP has offered NO response besides the initial statement and the "bug not feature" follow up. This is scandalous and irresponsible to your player base.

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:01:00 - [4026]
 

Originally by: Rethie
When reading up before subscription, considering all my cost of living etc, the thing that eventually made me sub was inactive training, for the fact of real life commitments, at least if I could not sub, I could come back and with some pre planning, have advanced a level on something.
As a parent of someone who has their majority (which I lose sleep at night about!) I can only say that I'm glad CCP has encouraged you to be more insightful about what luxuries you spend your meager income on. After all, you should be discouraged from making bad fiscal choices that overextend you or your available time.

Bully for you mate, welcome to the adult club.



Gara Al'Malik
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:05:00 - [4027]
 

Originally by: Rethie

-1 when it runs out
and no you cant have my stuff or isk, it can just die with me



Originally by: 3PA
and no, you can't have my stuff because it all goes to the people spending $$$ on GTCs and selling them. so much for in-game balance.



Just one cruiser? I know you're feeling all warm and fuzzy inside and want to be nice to people.

Hun Jakuza
We Are So Troubled Everyone Runs Screaming
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:07:00 - [4028]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Rethie
When reading up before subscription, considering all my cost of living etc, the thing that eventually made me sub was inactive training, for the fact of real life commitments, at least if I could not sub, I could come back and with some pre planning, have advanced a level on something.
As a parent of someone who has their majority (which I lose sleep at night about!) I can only say that I'm glad CCP has encouraged you to be more insightful about what luxuries you spend your meager income on. After all, you should be discouraged from making bad fiscal choices that overextend you or your available time.

Bully for you mate, welcome to the adult club.





No, we hate the gaylentes, so we dont go to adult club. :D

Kethot
Ordo Drakonis
Nulli Tertius
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:16:00 - [4029]
 

This decision is kinda stupid. This will just lead to closing accounts obviously and if you think people will pay more regularly without ghost learning you are wrong. I dont like a month of training/time sink and I dislike paying for it even more.

Nate D
Hell's Rejects
The Council.
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:17:00 - [4030]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Rethie
When reading up before subscription, considering all my cost of living etc, the thing that eventually made me sub was inactive training, for the fact of real life commitments, at least if I could not sub, I could come back and with some pre planning, have advanced a level on something.
As a parent of someone who has their majority (which I lose sleep at night about!) I can only say that I'm glad CCP has encouraged you to be more insightful about what luxuries you spend your meager income on. After all, you should be discouraged from making bad fiscal choices that overextend you or your available time.

Bully for you mate, welcome to the adult club.



Wow Shar... don't be so shallow. I manage my income too and sometimes find it difficult to justify paying for EVE. I also enjoy coming back to a new lvl 5 skill after taking a break. Going on 5 years of subscribing to EVE I've only taken advantage of this once but for CCP to remove this feature is ridiculous. They will lose more than they'll gain.

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:18:00 - [4031]
 

Originally by: Hun Jakuza
No, we hate the gaylentes, so we dont go to adult club. :D

Where are all the good men?
They already have boyfriends!

For a girl the are real slim pickings when looking for a man with class, cleanliness, and intelligence. So I'm happy them gaylentes are around.Wink

(Female toon, I'm not female.)


Par'Gellen
Gallente
Neon Cranium
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:24:00 - [4032]
 

Edited by: Par''Gellen on 16/10/2008 14:25:56
This is good news. Long overdue. Thanks!

In short, if you want to play you have to pay. I like this concept.

Grismar
Gallente
Vertigo Corp
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:24:00 - [4033]
 

After 135 pages of posts, how can I -not- post :p

I can only agree with the decision to fix it in the first place, it's a stupid feature and only supports RMT character farming. But I think it's just plain stupid to have waited this long.

Right now, you leave people no other choice than believing that the only reason you left it in was to inflate the number of people that had active accounts from time to time, to improve the image of the corporation with investors and for purposes of promotion.

A serious gaffe either way and in the very best case a case of laziness. In the worst case, you're greedy capitalists that are only after our money and you still don't have to worry. After all, we buy the games of other greedy capitalists that are only after our money too. I'm going to go with 'lazy' and 'unwise' all the same.

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:27:00 - [4034]
 

Originally by: Grismar
I can only agree with the decision to fix it in the first place, it's a stupid feature and only supports RMT character farming. But I think it's just plain stupid to have waited this long.

<snip>

After all, we buy the games of other greedy capitalists that are only after our money too. I'm going to go with 'lazy' and 'unwise' all the same.

This.

Nice to see one of the good ones still around as well. I still use explorer regularly mate.

Skeo
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:45:00 - [4035]
 

After reading t0rfifrans blog I have several things to say:

1st: If this truly was a "bug", as CCP said it was, why on earth did it take them 5 years to fix? This "bug" has been in your game for so long now that is is considered a "feature". You have now removed the game of one of it's features.

In addition, if it truly was a "bug", it goes to show you how poorly CCP manages to fix it's bugs. It apparently has 5 years worth of bugs to fix.

2nd: If CCP wants all of it's players to be subscribed at once while training, expect to see a large increase of online players. At the moment, CCP can barely "manage" the number of people online at any given time. Please tell me how you plan to handle all of the players, CCP.

3rd: This feature does not ruin the balance of the game. While playing, you earn more ISK and enjoy playing the game (whether it's PVP, PVE, or otherwise). While unsubscribed, you do not get any of this, save for being up to date skill-wise. (Eg: You've finished cruiser V after a month hiatus, but you don't have the ISK to buy a HAC because you haven't been playing).

This feature is what has kept me drawn to the game after taking a break for exams, work, etc. I feel that if I were to take a break again, I would have no motivation to return to the game.

Also may I add that I do not have any alts, this is my only character, and I am not trying to spam the thread as some people are. This is my opinion and I am seriously considering making my next "break" an indefinite one.

Apeshit
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:52:00 - [4036]
 

This new change is terrible. If I'm away from the game at any point it's been great knowing that a new skill/ship is ready to come back to. Definately been a major consideration whether I resub or not.

CCP you suk badly.ArrowShocked


Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:55:00 - [4037]
 

Originally by: Gara Al'Malik
Originally by: Sironus
Well, I quit maybe two or three times a year... Then, when I get bored enough again, I log in to try out whatever new ships I ghost-trained.

Next time I get bored enough to sign up again, I won't have any new stuff waiting for me to fly.

...I won't be coming back again. I cancelled last night. That's that. Game over.


Can I have your stuff? Oh you canceled already. Well if you happen to make a come back send me your stuff before you cancel again.


...and don't forget to set a long skill training just in case you decide to come back

/runs

Razz

Midas Man
Caldari
Dzark Innovations
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:56:00 - [4038]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral
[justify]
Originally by: Midas Man
oh and by the way Copy and Pasting intullectual information from Wiki doesn't make you smart.
It appears reading is not your strong suit. The link did not go to any Wiki.

Self pwnzor 4tl.



erm and where did i state that that post related to copy/paste from wiki.

Your whole life is spent in a basement you think your uber good because your Isk balance is phat. Your claims of being interlectual are only testament to 16 hours a day you spend google searching and wiki's.

And you get a boner from forum whoring from your high Horse.

Step down from that horse take a wander out of your basement, there is more to life than Eve-O forums and Isk making.

Nate D
Hell's Rejects
The Council.
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:56:00 - [4039]
 

It comes down to the economic ideas of consumer surplus and product value.

CCP is hedging their bets to see if subscribers will continue to have the same amount of consumer surplus when the price of maintaining their accounts rises exponentially. Though it's proven that when price rises (without significant product advancement), value decreases along with consumer surplus. It's easy to see that CCP has made no significant advancements to the management of multiple accounts or the way skills are trained to add value for the consumer. Thus CCP ends up with less revenue.

They don't call economics the dismal science for nothing but I'd really like to hear what CCP's own Dr.EyjoG thinks of the possible outcomes of this move.

Call it what you will, "you must pay for service" or whatever. But we're really talking about revenue dollars for CCP. I think that they're playing the wrong hand here. They will make more revenue the other way.

Blackjack Turner
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2008.10.16 14:58:00 - [4040]
 

Play da game. You guys amaze me. No other game allows (at least to my knowledge) you to train skills while you sleep. Some of you are angry that you cannot train skills while your account is inactive? WTF??!

Go play some Ultima Online and spend an afternoon whacking trees with an axe to improve a crafting skill.

Then ***** to me about training while your account isn't even active!

Can I have your stuff? Twisted Evil

Ilda Mrika
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:04:00 - [4041]
 

Originally by: Blackjack Turner
Play da game. You guys amaze me. No other game allows (at least to my knowledge) you to train skills while you sleep. Some of you are angry that you cannot train skills while your account is inactive? WTF??!

Since when you skill up by playing EVE? You gain the exact same sp's being logged, while you sleep or while you take a crap. D o y o u u n d e r s t a n d ?

Hun Jakuza
We Are So Troubled Everyone Runs Screaming
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:04:00 - [4042]
 

Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 16/10/2008 15:05:52
Originally by: Blackjack Turner
Play da game. You guys amaze me. No other game allows (at least to my knowledge) you to train skills while you sleep. Some of you are angry that you cannot train skills while your account is inactive? WTF??!

Go play some Ultima Online and spend an afternoon whacking trees with an axe to improve a crafting skill.

Then ***** to me about training while your account isn't even active!

Can I have your stuff? Twisted Evil


But first we should be go, we see it how goes Eve to ruin like a SWG.
And send for me a message and i send for you a noobship just for you if you want some stuff, may be you can fly with Ibis.
But i wrong, i think you can't, just beg like a beggar. Twisted Evil

Midas Man
Caldari
Dzark Innovations
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:10:00 - [4043]
 

Edited by: Midas Man on 16/10/2008 15:14:34
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Hun Jakuza
No, we hate the gaylentes, so we dont go to adult club. :D

Where are all the good men?
They already have boyfriends!

For a girl the are real slim pickings when looking for a man with class, cleanliness, and intelligence. So I'm happy them gaylentes are around.Wink

(Female toon, I'm not female.)



Ahhh got you so your one of these internet pervs who pretends to be a young girl to prey on other unsuspecting young girls.

There are alot on the internet but atleast we unveiled 1


edit fixed quote

Velda Chulai
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:14:00 - [4044]
 

Edited by: Velda Chulai on 16/10/2008 15:14:47
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Midas Man
You run off to find your furnishing list and see a line has been added next to TV saying "Landlord retains the right to revoke this option at any time"
Difference between Features and Guide.

In CCP's case, the tv was left there. Accident, small present, who cares. You then decided to go blaring it all hours of the night and abusing a privilege that was not yours... the landlord took the tv.

Now, you have the right to be ****ed off if the landlord didn't tell you he was going into your flat. However every landlord reserves the right to enter for work, modification, and/or recovery of his property.

Of course if you like you can litigate the matter or, if you don't have any leg to stand on, you can stand outside your flat screaming and whining about how the world has done you wrong and woah's me.

Please, continue to cry your big alligator tears about budget and life and constraints. Saves me going to the threatres and paying Hollywood for a bull**** sob story. But the truth is that the good players got hurt not by what CCP did, or even how they did it, but by the fact that other players defaced a game mechanic from rampant abuse.

I do alot of api auditing for the Eve equivalent of "wall street". I see some of the abuse CCP is talking about on a regular basis. It is the reason I brought the matter up to the CSM board back in June.

Responsible adults know that if something is free but being sucked dry, it disappears. Children only know, I had it, it is gone, <wail>.

Simple really.
Much like yourself.



Sorry but your version of the story makes no sense, because the ghost trainers used less resources than the TV in this case (if the volume were up, that would be akin to creating additional load/work for the GMs, which according tot eh EULA results in warnings followed by a ban).

A better example would be to say that a landlord gave you parking as part of the lease. The problem is that the landlord wasn't being specific, so you decide that, as a bus driver, you're going to park a 20 foot long bus in that parking spot. The Landlord wakes up the following day and thinks "Uh... What the hell is that?". He stumbles out of bed, gets down the stairs, and marvels at this huge bus in his driveway. He's a bit shocked by it, but they edit their tenant's agreement so that future bus drivers can park their buses in his property parking spots - After talking about it, the tennants agree to pay extra rent for their buses.

A few years later he goes to one of his Chinese rental properties and declares that he doesn't want buses parked. He specifically goes back to his other rental property and says "Don't worry guys, you're not affected!"

And then some time later he issues citations for 48 hour notice.

The Bus Drivers are understandably livid now. Their Landlord has given them no time to prepare and has gone from friendly to seemingly schizophrenic. Sure, he seems to have the right to do this. Meanwhile anyone parking a a Mini is suddenly laughing at the Bus Drivers - They should be driving more economic vehicles or getting off the road. Some of the Bus Drivers think "Sure, I was paying for all of those parking spots but I guess I should switch to being a Cab Driver".

The difference is that in Eve, there is no lost physical space. The "Bus Drivers" leave virtually no footprint of any kind, in fact. The Landlord in this case has lost a lot of rent, and some of the tenants are moving out.

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:26:00 - [4045]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral
(Female toon, I'm not female.)
Originally by: Midas Man
Ahhh got you so your one of these internet pervs who pretends to be a young girl to prey on other unsuspecting young girls. There are alot on the internet but atleast we unveiled 1
Man, you've got a real emo-flame thing going on here. Did I steal your girlfriend in another life or something? Having a female avatar makes me a pervert. Wow, with logic like that I can now see why you choose not to get it.

Of course there is a reason I have a female avatar other than perversion (you should see someone about that) that was explained over a year ago.

I now exercise my option of <last word> on you. I can only hope you are one of those who unsubs. Might improve the nature of discussion around here without your ... issues... spewing forth.

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:28:00 - [4046]
 

Originally by: Velda Chulai
The difference is that in Eve, there is no lost physical space. The "Bus Drivers" leave virtually no footprint of any kind, in fact. The Landlord in this case has lost a lot of rent, and some of the tenants are moving out.
Bon Voyage!


Ramblin Man
Empyreum
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:34:00 - [4047]
 

Thread tl;dr

Second Account
Considering the training times on 'heavy' skills and the frequent (and fairly arbitrary) rebalances, there goes my second account (so that's $0/month, instead of the 'gaming-the-system' money from it I was planning on paying).

Primary Account
Considering the bull**** official line on this (which afaik has been "It's a feature!" -> "We're thinking of removing it." -> "We aren't removing it, because we know you use it.") has changed to the ludicrious "We're removing it, because we didn't know you used it!", that's a pretty hefty hit on my motivation for a primary account. This is the biggest fu(kup since t20 got away with spawning T2 BPOs.


Velda Chulai
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:35:00 - [4048]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Shar Tegral
(Female toon, I'm not female.)
Originally by: Midas Man
Ahhh got you so your one of these internet pervs who pretends to be a young girl to prey on other unsuspecting young girls. There are alot on the internet but atleast we unveiled 1
...emo-flame...



There is no flame but emo-flame!

Nate D
Hell's Rejects
The Council.
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:39:00 - [4049]
 

Originally by: Ramblin Man
Thread tl;dr

Second Account
Considering the training times on 'heavy' skills and the frequent (and fairly arbitrary) rebalances, there goes my second account (so that's $0/month, instead of the 'gaming-the-system' money from it I was planning on paying).

Primary Account
Considering the bull**** official line on this (which afaik has been "It's a feature!" -> "We're thinking of removing it." -> "We aren't removing it, because we know you use it.") has changed to the ludicrious "We're removing it, because we didn't know you used it!", that's a pretty hefty hit on my motivation for a primary account.
<snip>



This is a great example of wasted consumer surplus due to an exponential increase in price and decreased game value.

CCP has made a bad revenue decision here.

Cutesmile
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.10.16 15:41:00 - [4050]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Shar Tegral
(Female toon, I'm not female.)
Originally by: Midas Man
Ahhh got you so your one of these internet pervs who pretends to be a young girl to prey on other unsuspecting young girls. There are alot on the internet but atleast we unveiled 1
Man, you've got a real emo-flame thing going on here. Did I steal your girlfriend in another life or something? Having a female avatar makes me a pervert. Wow, with logic like that I can now see why you choose not to get it.

Of course there is a reason I have a female avatar other than perversion (you should see someone about that) that was explained over a year ago.

I now exercise my option of <last word> on you. I can only hope you are one of those who unsubs. Might improve the nature of discussion around here without your ... issues... spewing forth.



Man you are one realy pesky idiot, who cant bear if anyone said truth.


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