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Grimm Starling
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.10.16 02:35:00 - [3871]
 

This is unfortunate.

A bad decision that will not only hurt your player base but your business as well. Removing a unique incentive for customer retention will earn you no accolades and bring no extra dollars for your company.

I urge you to consider the examples in our industry which have shown that bad changes in the name of 'game balance' are still bad changes.

BoungaBounga
Secret Order of the Cats
Posted - 2008.10.16 02:36:00 - [3872]
 

Another post whining about topic.

Duskadantor
Posted - 2008.10.16 02:37:00 - [3873]
 

Edited by: Duskadantor on 16/10/2008 02:45:22
Edited by: Duskadantor on 16/10/2008 02:40:33
Originally by: Battlecheese
Originally by: Dee Fisher
Yet you insult me (I won't speak for others) by intending to suddenly make this change without at LEAST a few weeks notice. WHY?

Well, it's not rocket science - they probably looked at their weekly spreadsheets and noticed that 95% of all of the PowerOf2 accounts were ghosting rather than continuing their subscription...

So ghosting stunted the predicted returns from whatever number of folk who signed up?


I think the next time 'the power of two' offer comes it won't be nearly as popular as the one just ended. Not just because of the end of ghosting but because of how so many folk signed up with plans. Plans of how they would level up their character (to possibly ghost) and then be told about the removal of the 5 year long bug right after the offer ends.

This unlucky timing and unfortunate PR has quite possibly runined the appeal of such an offer, knock on effect would also ruin CCP $$$ right?

So, the 'power of two' offer may also leave a bitter taste in the mouth many who learn of the facts.
Me myself though, I'm a one account guy. I'm just way too tight with my cash to have two accounts.

"No bitterness here, no siree bob"

Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.10.16 02:45:00 - [3874]
 

Originally by: Ching Chongchang
Whether or not this is a good idea - which it really isn't for any of a number of reasons, which many of you fail to grasp - is beside the point.

This isn't "an outrage" and is very honestly not something that warrants a 4 page flame fest (let alone 130 pages). CCP is enacting a policy that only serves to discourage people from taking a break from the game. What that means isn't that fewer people will actually leave the game, but that fewer people will have a carrot to come back.

The community at large sickens me though... Why do you feel that it's your God given right to make use of CCP's resources for free if they decide its time for you to be paying? Get over yourselves already and support a product you clearly enjoy. If you want to play the game, f***ing pay for it. If you don't enjoy the game, WHY ARE YOU HERE?





like i said, instead of getting the equivalent of 3-4 accounts worth of pay, yearly, from me, they'll now get exactly one account's worth of pay, yearly from me.

why is that so hard to understand?

people who play multiple toons/accounts probably actually PLAY them and that one person might actually pay more ANNUALLY, even with taking a month off here and there on one of their 3-8 accounts?

i know, crazy talk. some people aren't good at the maths.

kinda like the GTC stuff of late... more not-good math there.

Simpler Plan
Posted - 2008.10.16 02:46:00 - [3875]
 

i was right outside the door due to the lag issues your servers keep having that ccp avoids admitting until a corp mate gave me a reason to stay. and now ccp decided to do this

makes me wish i locked myself outside

i hope ccp sees this and decides to read what everyone feels on this subject bc this is rediclous.

a bug thats been around for almost 5 year? yeah right.

Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.10.16 02:52:00 - [3876]
 

Originally by: SunGod RA
Originally by: Asperoth
This is going to cost CCP money, lots of it. The decision to move forward with it is just yet another sign that they are disconnected from their playerbase and don't really understand us at all.


mm, im part of the player base, and i welcome such a move. i don't mind either way, but i always found it a bit ******ed when i saw other players say "i'm canceling this account to train for battleship v", like you couldn't train it while playing. (of course now i understand that they had 5-10 other accounts to mess with etc etc.)

this move will only make things better overall, less alt proliferation, less character farming, less skillpoints dilution, and hopefully less whiny drama queens! although i'm sure people will find other things to whine about (with their canceled-then-reactivated-cuz-this-game-is-unique-etc accounts of course.) this is the whine-dimension after all!

plus, 10 accounts? jeebus. try going out a little once in a while, maybe you won't get your panties in a bunch so much over intarweb spaceships.



i, for one, welcome our new alien ant overlords.

perhaps we can see them at this year's fanfest!

Parasite S
Perkone
Posted - 2008.10.16 02:53:00 - [3877]
 

Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd

like i said, instead of getting the equivalent of 3-4 accounts worth of pay, yearly, from me, they'll now get exactly one account's worth of pay, yearly from me.

why is that so hard to understand?

people who play multiple toons/accounts probably actually PLAY them and that one person might actually pay more ANNUALLY, even with taking a month off here and there on one of their 3-8 accounts?

i know, crazy talk. some people aren't good at the maths.

kinda like the GTC stuff of late... more not-good math there.


well thats just typical CCP. they claim to play the game like everyone else but wasnt it like a year before? you know where they invited lots and lots of poeple to acctualy "feel and test the lag"? if so much people by ccp really have the same experience at we such crap hadnt to be done.... now we see ccp`s unknowingness about their further and further away from them moving playerbase again....

Nova
Posted - 2008.10.16 03:17:00 - [3878]
 

makes no cents to me but then i guess ccp doesn't need the extra cents of my alts bad move ccp

Dontcheck Availability
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.10.16 03:18:00 - [3879]
 

It's only fair to make it so that trial accounts also can't train any skills. After all, they're not paying to play the game!

StealthGerbils
Advanced Component Research Enterprise
Posted - 2008.10.16 03:19:00 - [3880]
 

First and foremost, I think that it is a bad idea to remove ghost training. It gives people incentives to return to the game and it makes training extremely long skills less tedious

That said, I know that the devs are going to make skills keep training for 3 days. While they are kind enough to make it so that your account lapsing for a day or two isn't harmful, they are neglecting one of the main reasons why people come back to eve.

We all know that people get burnt out of MMOs, especially when new ones come out. One of the main reasons people come back to eve is because they know that their character just finished an awesome skill that they left it on. Removing ghost training is going to kill this.

That said, I can see exactly why CCP wants to remove it. It isn't fair that a character can train the titan skill to V while inactive. That is around 75 days of training that they are losing out on money. It also allows people to make crazy characters and just sell them for isk because they trained all of the long skills while inactive.

I believe that there needs to be a balance.

Why not allow skills to ghost train for 2 weeks after an account goes inactive. That gives players the ability to set a skill that they would enjoy coming back to and would keep the joy of getting a 'gift' when you reactive your account. However, 14 days isn't really that long in terms of skill training. It wouldn't make anything unbalanced, because what is 14 days out of a 40 day skil, much less out of a 75 day skill?

It would allow players to set a rank 2 or 3 skill to V and come back with it trained. It would keep the positive reinforcement that will make a player return to the game but it wouldn't make it unbalanced to the point that people are training up characters while mostly being inactive.

Jaxxon Voers
The Scope
Posted - 2008.10.16 03:28:00 - [3881]
 

I still find it kinda amusing that not only is this thread still 'vanished' more than 24 hours after Wrangler posted that they were actively working to get it fixed, (We all knew you didnt really mean it Wrangler) but the server graph that shows how many people are online compared to last week is disabled on the front page as well.

Nothing to see here, move along, indeed.

Twisted EvilTwisted Evil

Battlecheese
Posted - 2008.10.16 03:28:00 - [3882]
 

Originally by: StealthGerbils
....it makes training extremely long skills less tedious.

If you lack the mental strength to stick it out, you may find WOW more to your liking.

una keenan
Posted - 2008.10.16 03:28:00 - [3883]
 

this is the end of Eve for me... CCP this is a very wrong decision. Specially telling us its a "BUG".

Syrdione
Posted - 2008.10.16 03:29:00 - [3884]
 

Just saw the thread... bah...bad move...bad move...
Good luck CCP. You'll have a big problem ( BIG, VERY BIG ) with your subs.

Mr Patches
Posted - 2008.10.16 03:41:00 - [3885]
 

In all honesty I'm surprised and disappointed there hasn't been more feedback from CCP in this thread.

/shrugs and gets some scotch.

Roland San
Posted - 2008.10.16 03:42:00 - [3886]
 

I would like to say I ghost trained. I used it as the feature it was stated to be.

Why?

Because it gave me the flexibility to plan eve around my real life, not the other way round.

From where I am in the world, the previous 90-day GTCs was fairly expensive, given the exchange rates and all. At the end of that 90 days, I'd train a long skill, take time off to recover from eve burnout, and be drawn back by the prospect of a fully trained new skill which would open new doors for me in the game.

I can't stay subbed constantly. I need the time away; it keeps the game fresh for me, and the amount of time and money I can allocate to this cannot increase. Without the carrot of a new skill awaiting my return (which usually pretty much happens almost immediately after that skill has been completed) it'll only make it harder to come back. With ghost training, CCP would at least be assured of getting 3x 90 day, or 4x 60 day subscriptions from me, given a month in between each extension. Now the carrot is gone, I really do not know what I'm going to do when this account (which was extended only a week ago) expires. I certainly won't throw all I've done here away, but the will to do more is getting pretty weak.

James Marshalll
Gallente
Posted - 2008.10.16 04:00:00 - [3887]
 

Originally by: Battlecheese
Originally by: StealthGerbils
....it makes training extremely long skills less tedious.

If you lack the mental strength to stick it out, you may find WOW more to your liking.


for someone who is so happy with the game, you sure spend a lot of time here insulting people who are giving feedback in a non "emorage" way. Does CCP pay you for every lick of their johnson, or just the first 1 or 2?

Seth Ruin
Minmatar
Ominous Corp
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2008.10.16 04:06:00 - [3888]
 

Originally by: StealthGerbils
....it makes training extremely long skills less tedious.


I honestly wouldn't mind a boost to skill training... Might help new players catch up to older ones even, as they seem so keen to want to do.

Battlecheese
Posted - 2008.10.16 04:09:00 - [3889]
 

Edited by: Battlecheese on 16/10/2008 04:09:42
Originally by: James Marshalll
for someone who is so happy with the game, you sure spend a lot of time here insulting people who are giving feedback in a non "emorage" way.

What can I say? Work is slow this afternoon.

... And he/she/it was whining about skill training times, which are sort of the point of EVE.
If the game isn't enjoyable _now_, I doubt it'll suddenly become cool just because the pixels you can fly change a bit.

Edit: profanity filter...

Ms Yipman
Posted - 2008.10.16 04:27:00 - [3890]
 

Edited by: Ms Yipman on 16/10/2008 04:33:50
Edited by: Ms Yipman on 16/10/2008 04:29:30
Hey EvE's awesome I respect there decisions 99%. I mean how many farmers we got? and I know they would milk this oppurtunity. It would have been nice though if they would stop training 48 or 72 hours after expiration in the case I was on vacation for a weekend and forgot to renew.

But hey it ain't going to stop me from gaming EvE.

Very Happy

Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.10.16 04:34:00 - [3891]
 

Originally by: Battlecheese
Originally by: StealthGerbils
....it makes training extremely long skills less tedious.

If you lack the mental strength to stick it out, you may find WOW more to your liking.



and for those of us with 4+ accounts, who, on average, are paying the equivalent of 3-6 *normal annual* amounts of money for all those accounts... would we have to say to you that you lack the mental strength to play that many characters?

like i said... someone is not good at maths. but we knew that when they made those idiotic GTC changes.

Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.10.16 04:36:00 - [3892]
 

Originally by: Ms Yipman
Edited by: Ms Yipman on 16/10/2008 04:33:50
Edited by: Ms Yipman on 16/10/2008 04:29:30
Hey EvE's awesome I respect there decisions 99%. I mean how many farmers we got? and I know they would milk this oppurtunity. It would have been nice though if they would stop training 48 or 72 hours after expiration in the case I was on vacation for a weekend and forgot to renew.

But hey it ain't going to stop me from gaming EvE.

Very Happy



i don't know, how many farmers are there compared to how many people who play multiple accounts?

do you happen to have those numbers?

Nate D
Hell's Rejects
The Council.
Posted - 2008.10.16 04:38:00 - [3893]
 

Punish noobs NOT Geezers!

Zinnn
Posted - 2008.10.16 04:47:00 - [3894]
 

How about punishing those people who are just going from one trial account to another with the same IP, moving their assets over and over again, until they can afford timecards, etc? They're not making any cash for CCP and are a complete leech on the system. IF YOU WANT TO PLAY THE GAME, PAY FOR IT.. All I"m asking for is some consistency. You want to be a badass about this decision, that's fine but be consistent. You want to remove leechers, there's your prime leachers. I've talked to .. well... probably 2 or more, if I see at least 2 people that do this tactic, obviously more people are doing it. I'm just saying if you want to screw people, you might as well screw the prime targets - ones who don't pay and just use up accounts and discard them, leaving their crap in space to pick up with the other account, OR dumping them on the market in some sort of transaction. It's been done, so fix it CCP... Be consistent.

Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.10.16 04:47:00 - [3895]
 

Originally by: Corrock
I can see why, if you were taking advantage of this "feature" you'd be ****ed, but there are a lot of people with more than one active account who pay continuously, myself included, so why should some people get to train for free?



because some people pay for a lot more accounts than you do? and, including the ghosting, they annually pay more money than you?


Erimisha
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.10.16 05:18:00 - [3896]
 

-Ghost RPs
-Ghost Sales
-Ghost CEOs
-Ghost Manufacturing

Holy Cheater
Monks of War
DarkSide.
Posted - 2008.10.16 05:26:00 - [3897]
 

Originally by: Erimisha
-Ghost RPs
-Ghost Sales
-Ghost CEOs
-Ghost Manufacturing

-Ninja hunting

Bigeasy
Caldari
It's A Trap
Posted - 2008.10.16 05:42:00 - [3898]
 

>.>
<.<

Is this thread still invisible?

Ghost Training: Play the game...without actually playing the game.

RayGic Luke
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.16 05:42:00 - [3899]
 

Where is CCP Oveur? Why is he not making a statement on this matter or are they waiting for CCP Hellmar(CEO) to step in after all the unsubscribing have taken place?

Keter 325
Ripshitz and Killit LLC
Posted - 2008.10.16 05:50:00 - [3900]
 

I just find it hell-arious that, what was once a "selling point" of the game that cast it unique among any other MMO is now a "bug" that is costing CCP money and should be cured like it is some sort of disease. What other selling points will be nerfed in the future CCP? Maybe we shouldn't really have 3 toons per account and therefore have to pay 3x the amount that we are paying right now to pop a cyno; that seems like a bug to me. Ut oh, I think that I just gave them an idea.


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