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CCP Fallout

Posted - 2008.10.13 15:38:00 - [1]
 

Certificates are an exciting new change coming to EVE Online. Designed to help new players acclimate to the game more easily, certificates advise players on what skills they should know and how they can best be used.

More information about certificates can be found in Greyscale’s newest dev blog.

Shaun Livingstone
Royal Fleet Auxiliary
Collegium Amarria
Posted - 2008.10.13 15:48:00 - [2]
 

Yeah yeah yeah. When's it hitting TQ? :)

Treelox
Posted - 2008.10.13 15:59:00 - [3]
 

Meh....

Another "Epeen Measuring Stick" added to the game. Yippie?


Seriously, I dont see this as helping NPE very much. It would be far better if you guys actually drummed up some documentation or that Wiki we have heard about for the last year(s). From the NPE perspective, your just increasing the handholding of newbies, which leads them to expect further hand holding as the game "advances". For a game that has always had a very Darwinistic nature, I find increasing the ammount of handholding a disturbing trend.

Andy Rogerson
Posted - 2008.10.13 15:59:00 - [4]
 

Any chance of there being player-created (or at least corporation-created) certificates? While I can see the pre-created ones mentioned in the blog post being useful for new players, I'm thinking this could also be something that would be useful to player corporations for helping new recruits get going.

Right now, my corp has a series of EveMon skill plans that we have posted on our boards for specific specializations (basic T2 production assistant, inventor, heavy tackler, etc.). The ability to create some custom certificates for our corporation would let us offer a similar direction in-game, as some, especially newer, players prefer not to use 3rd-party tools like Evemon.

Bonus points if the requirements for these custom certificates can be exported to Evemon (or created in-game based on an export from Evemon). Though, if you stick with just CCP-defined certificates, I'm sure Evemon will have support for them soon enough.

Zikka
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.10.13 16:00:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Treelox
Meh....

Another "Epeen Measuring Stick" added to the game. Yippie?


Seriously, I dont see this as helping NPE very much. It would be far better if you guys actually drummed up some documentation or that Wiki we have heard about for the last year(s). From the NPE perspective, your just increasing the handholding of newbies, which leads them to expect further hand holding as the game "advances". For a game that has always had a very Darwinistic nature, I find increasing the ammount of handholding a disturbing trend.


Very useful for recruiters though..."so you're a tackler? show me your tacking certificate"..etc :)

Gut Punch
Shade.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2008.10.13 16:08:00 - [6]
 

If corps/alliances were able to generate their own Certificates then it would be useful. Basically it would work as an non API recruiting tool; would your character be able to meet the requirements we have set. Post recruitment, if the CEO could set an additional set of Certificates and look at the entire corporation he could determine how many people were "Sniper Qualified" or "Nano Qualified" as defined by the corporation.

I don't base my skill training off what CCP thinks I should be doing. I use EveMon to find a ship or item I need and work towards that goal. Certificates are just more eye candy.

Avalira
Caldari
The Black Light Foundation
Posted - 2008.10.13 16:13:00 - [7]
 

While it's a nifty feature there is one big part missing: player created certificates.

I know the blog mentioned there aren't any but it could be a big bonus to the system. Say for instance I wanted to join Veto. They have a 30M SP minimum and want you to have (for instance) heavy drones, battleship skills, propulsion jamming, etc etc... Now if I want to join them it would be much easier to just create a custom certificate by selecting existing certificates and adding specific skills to that custom certificate. That way any recruitment officer just needs to click on the character and can see if the player meets the requirements.

Mikal Drey
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.13 16:15:00 - [8]
 

hey hey

looks nice and is a nice addition for newer players.

will you please please please please please please please please remove Controlled Bursts from the projectile skills. some of the other certs also seem to be unbalanced :/




Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.10.13 16:16:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Batolemaeus on 13/10/2008 16:16:27
I approve of the official useage of the word "e-peen" Cool

Goti Evans
Posted - 2008.10.13 16:26:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Treelox
Meh....
your just increasing the handholding of newbies, which leads them to expect further hand holding as the game "advances". For a game that has always had a very Darwinistic nature, I find increasing the ammount of handholding a disturbing trend.



True How ever eve is offten slated for not so much having a learning curve as a learnig cliff. and therfore I think a litle extra shove in flattening it out is well worth it.

CCP Greyscale

Posted - 2008.10.13 16:28:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Mikal Drey
hey hey

looks nice and is a nice addition for newer players.

will you please please please please please please please please remove Controlled Bursts from the projectile skills. some of the other certs also seem to be unbalanced :/




Yeah, this is something that's been bothering me over the last couple of weeks. As you can see from the way it's laid out, the reason that CB is in there for projectiles is that it's inheriting it from the generic Turrets cert series. It would be possible just to remove that prereq and push all the other skills in that set directly onto the projectile certs, or to create a new subcert just for non-cap-using turrets, but both are inelegant and remove some of the implied portability of the skills (ie if you train the generic turret certs up as part of your projectile training, you can clearly see that those skills carry over to the other turret types; this is lost if we sever that link).

It's still being considered though, certainly, as are all the other prereqs. If you do find something you think is odd, or a bit off, please do mention it in this thread so we can hunt down any problems and squash them Smile

Fenrill Nerkata
Posted - 2008.10.13 16:30:00 - [12]
 

VERY GOOD idea.

BUT...

some certificate are dumb.
Veldspare and Scordite processing 5 for common ore extractor lvl standard or Afterburner 5 for Minmatar Military Special force lvl Basic Rolling Eyes

I think players and even corps or alliance havent the same skill plans as CCP have.
As sayed above, Controled burst for Minmatar/projectiles pilots is a non sense.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2008.10.13 16:32:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Zikka
Originally by: Treelox
Meh....

Another "Epeen Measuring Stick" added to the game. Yippie?


Seriously, I dont see this as helping NPE very much. It would be far better if you guys actually drummed up some documentation or that Wiki we have heard about for the last year(s). From the NPE perspective, your just increasing the handholding of newbies, which leads them to expect further hand holding as the game "advances". For a game that has always had a very Darwinistic nature, I find increasing the ammount of handholding a disturbing trend.


Very useful for recruiters though..."so you're a tackler? show me your tacking certificate"..etc :)



I prefer the give me your limited api, but I suppose the cert works.

that and I plan on getting a bunch of lolcerts (hull tanking anyone?) so who knows what it will do to the npe Laughing

Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2008.10.13 16:38:00 - [14]
 

I love this feature. Thank you very much!

We have basically the same right now in our internal corp pages. A list of tasks and the skills required for them. This was tremendously helpful for our rookies so far. This will help a lot of younger players.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2008.10.13 16:50:00 - [15]
 

Quote:
* Armor Tanking - Basic
* Repair Systems IV
* Mechanic III
* Hull Upgrades IV

This ends up giving you access to a nice spread of armor tanking gear. It also has some description text to explain what the certificate is, what you get by qualifying for it and a few suggestions about what you might do once you get it. The text for Armor Tanking - Standard reads as follows:

This certificate represents a standard level of competence in armor-based defence. It certifies that the holder is able to use Tech 1 Armor Plates and Armor Hardeners, and all Armor Repairers and Damage Control Units. With this certificate you can rely on armor-related systems to provide a sturdy defensive barrier.


except for tech 2 large armor reps (reqs mechanic 5), tech 2 medium armor reps(reqs mechanic 4), and capital armor reps (reqs a bunch more stuff)

and yes I'm being picky.

Bane Glorious
Ministry of War
Posted - 2008.10.13 16:56:00 - [16]
 

No player made certificates? :/

Audrea
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.13 17:00:00 - [17]
 

cool idea :) but as others have said, please make it customizeable and applicable as corp filter.. so ceo can see how many snipers he has (by corp's definition, not ccp), and who don't get certified...

Just a small extra feature will make it useful for the experienced players too, so pls dont be lazy :)

Andy Rogerson
Posted - 2008.10.13 17:14:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Audrea
Just a small extra feature will make it useful for the experienced players too, so pls dont be lazy :)

I don't think it's laziness -- static content with a couple of extra flags on existing dynamic content (the character info) isn't very 'expensive' to add.

If the feature moves to being based on dynamic content (stuff that has to be stored in the database), then it has to be considered with respect to the database load it causes and the like, ie. it's going to take longer to happen.

Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Posted - 2008.10.13 17:25:00 - [19]
 

Nice. Now just add "Train for this certificate" and you've perfected the system ;)

Seriously though, by adding certificates, a problem is raised, specifically for noobs:
- WTF do I have to switch skills 30 times in my first 3 days to get basic certificates?
etc.

Once the concept is introduced and work done to find-out what the levels should all be, there is no logical game, player or UI reason for NOT setting training to certificates - it just frankly appears as bad design.

Sure people who currently play EVE know the story, but any new player joining will think team Donut are team Wingnut.




Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.10.13 17:28:00 - [20]
 

Awesome feature. I just realized my shield compensation skill was only level 1.

And now some nitpicking:

1. Typhoon definitely needs at least basic heavy drones and basic battleship launcher as recommendation.

2. As already mentioned, please remove Controlled bursts from turret control certificates. Having 7.5m SP in gunnery and not a single certificate makes my e-peen microscopic.

3. Afterburner 5 for basic minnie specialist is just silly. At least for now, dunno how about post nerf patch. Maybe it turns out to be MUST HAVE.

4. Minnie recons should include recommendation for basic (or standard) propulsion jamming.

5. For some reason I was able to acquire elite minnie business - executive command. Maybe because it doesn't have prerequisites (Must find how to file a bug report)

More to come...

Linas IV
Posted - 2008.10.13 17:28:00 - [21]
 

Well, i got 7.5mil sp in gunnery and didnt receive any certificates on Sisi for this, because
i didn't train "Controlled Bursts" ....... as Minmatar only char...... lol
Change needed?!?!

MaXiMiZoR
Caldari
Daytraders
Posted - 2008.10.13 17:29:00 - [22]
 

if it will help starters, donno.

But if your looking at the skil systems for years it doesnt hurt to get some more shiny thingys in.

Make an option, include certificates in Bio. Just well, it's shiny.


Dmian
Gallente
Gallenterrorisme
Posted - 2008.10.13 17:35:00 - [23]
 

Great idea! Really great idea!
Congrats to the devs involved.
I'm anxious to see this hit TQ.
You've answered most of the questions I already had.
This and FW, the best things that happened to this game lately (and many more that awaits us.)

A happy capsuleer. Very Happy

Kerdrak
GreenSwarm
Black Legion.
Posted - 2008.10.13 17:44:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Kerdrak on 13/10/2008 17:49:21
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Mikal Drey
hey hey

looks nice and is a nice addition for newer players.

will you please please please please please please please please remove Controlled Bursts from the projectile skills. some of the other certs also seem to be unbalanced :/




Yeah, this is something that's been bothering me over the last couple of weeks. As you can see from the way it's laid out, the reason that CB is in there for projectiles is that it's inheriting it from the generic Turrets cert series. It would be possible just to remove that prereq and push all the other skills in that set directly onto the projectile certs, or to create a new subcert just for non-cap-using turrets, but both are inelegant and remove some of the implied portability of the skills (ie if you train the generic turret certs up as part of your projectile training, you can clearly see that those skills carry over to the other turret types; this is lost if we sever that link).

It's still being considered though, certainly, as are all the other prereqs. If you do find something you think is odd, or a bit off, please do mention it in this thread so we can hunt down any problems and squash them Smile


Not many Laser users train that Trajectory Analysis skill beyond lvl 4 too ;)

CCP Gangleri


Minmatar
Posted - 2008.10.13 17:47:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Lumy
Awesome feature. I just realized my shield compensation skill was only level 1.

And now some nitpicking:

1. Typhoon definitely needs at least basic heavy drones and basic battleship launcher as recommendation.

2. As already mentioned, please remove Controlled bursts from turret control certificates. Having 7.5m SP in gunnery and not a single certificate makes my e-peen microscopic.

3. Afterburner 5 for basic minnie specialist is just silly. At least for now, dunno how about post nerf patch. Maybe it turns out to be MUST HAVE.

4. Minnie recons should include recommendation for basic (or standard) propulsion jamming.

5. For some reason I was able to acquire elite minnie business - executive command. Maybe because it doesn't have prerequisites (Must find how to file a bug report)

More to come...


Bug reports can be filed here


Please include as much info as possible to help our volunteers filter the bugs more efficiently.

Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.10.13 17:53:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 13/10/2008 17:55:56
Little drawn out blog for what its trying to explain.


But come on, give us like .01% increase in the area it deals with.


I'd love player created. Then you can have alliance leaders ensuring all their cap pilots had XYZ before their cert.

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2008.10.13 18:29:00 - [27]
 

the best part of this feature is the "Granting certificates" progress bar dance when I click "Claim all certificates" ... never seen more entertaining UI dialog ...

fix teh UI finaly :-) then add useless junk ...


Salpad
Caldari
Carebears with Attitude
Posted - 2008.10.13 18:48:00 - [28]
 

One feature that would be very useful would be if you could choose to show your certificates only to specific characters, on a temporary basis.

The most obvious example is when you're talking to a CEO about joining his corp. You might want to let him see your certs, but prefer them to remain concealed from all others.

iudex
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:02:00 - [29]
 

Sounds nice, looking forward to see them on Sisi Very Happy

Khanak Hryad
Amarr
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.10.13 19:16:00 - [30]
 

Hmm...so what would be the point of those Elite certs (besides the chance to wave your ginormous epeen around)? I mean...I feel that there should be some sort of reward for it. Even though there's nothing unlocked by the slew of skills trained up to V, it would make sense to have an exclusive unlock for being certified as an Elite Energy Gunner...

just a thought

Possible rewards, im thinking along the lines of:
- A boosted module of that type
- Lowered NPC market cost of modules of that type
- ISK reward
- Something maybe integrated into WIS when that gets implemented. BTW, I fully expect to see plaques with all my certs on the wall of mah quarters YARRRR!!


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