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Robert Kauliford
Kauliford Trading
Posted - 2008.10.13 14:16:00 - [1]
 

People keep mentioning the 'war' and this has got me thinking. Yes its undeniable that the relationship between the four empires has declinend since the events of several months ago. However I don't believe the term 'war' is correct. What is occuring now is merely an escalation of the century old frozen conflicts. The galaxy has gone from a state of cold war into the current state of proxy conflict.

You only have to look at the footage from the coronation to realise the battles being fought are mere skirmishes compared to what would happen if the main battlefleets were to clash. Even if the might of all the alliances out in 0.0 were to bring their might to bear in support of the militias it wouldn't match the power of the navies.

Also you only have to look at most of the major trade hubs. Are there massed fleets waiting at the gates? Are systems locked down to non-essential traffic? Are borders being closed to non residents?

All these things indicate that we are not at war. Not yet. We live in interesting times but these are not the end times. Total war is not inevitable, but unless people realise what is happening now we may sleepwalk into one without realising

Shern
Minmatar
Hevaka Agreement
Posted - 2008.10.13 17:23:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Shern on 13/10/2008 17:23:40
You are right, Rob. Trade between empires, although maybe it has slowed, has not stopped. There are no navy squadrons blockading the gates on each nation's frontiers.

I guess there might be some sanity left in all four major power's governments. Maybe, just maybe, all-out war isn't wanted. I guess I will pray that the great war will never come and the messy, wasteful skirmishing we see is just a 'safety valve' for the aggression of the powers.

I know that the matari must be Reclaimed, but I would rather that were done by diplomacy and trade rather than fire and sword. Like I said, I will pray very hard.

Tyr Vaantau
Amarr
Ragnarok Engineering
Clear Skies Darkening
Posted - 2008.10.13 17:41:00 - [3]
 

This would be CONCORD's doing, of course.


Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2008.10.13 21:03:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 13/10/2008 21:05:21

I'd actually have to differ since I've been learning just how many Bloodclaws it takes to pummel a Gallente Navy elite frigate into critical failure (more than I'd like). A "proxy war" would be fought almost exclusively by the proxies; as it is, all sides are suffering genuine losses, and I imagine being assigned to one of the contested zone facilities is the worst moment of many a soldier's life.

I'd call this a "limited war"-- it's definitely warfare, but on a small-ish scale and by restricted means.

Also, considering that the Intaki homeworld is within the zone of the contest, it's not as though the Federation, just for example, stands to lose nothing.

Zagamesh
Zaikestaa-Gessenier Security
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:04:00 - [5]
 

I believe all the current combatants are utilizing the current state of affairs to re-tool their industries, recruit heavily for their armed forces and generally prepare for the inevitable escalation of the conflict. The use of capsuleer and conventional assets in the low-sec peripheries is to deny the use of to the enemy of any alternative invasion corridors besides a small handful to which a nation can commit the bulk of their assets. If any militia actually does manage to successfully secure their enemies' low-sec periphery they greatly contribute to their nation's ability to successfully create a beach-head in enemy territory.

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Also, considering that the Intaki homeworld is within the zone of the contest, it's not as though the Federation, just for example, stands to lose nothing.


Yes, that would be a crying shame. I don't think the Federation could stand such a loss.
The Intaki philosophy as championed by President Foiritain of turning all our swords into plowshares and promoting foreign military adventurism has most certainly guided and protected our Federation and her citizens. I'm sure all the Federal citizens currently on Luminaire 7 would just hate it if Intaki were to fall to the Caldari. Yes, what a shame that would be indeed.

Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2008.10.14 01:33:00 - [6]
 

Luminaire VII, better known as Caldari Prime. But good job on trying to claim it as a Federation world.

Gavyn Lumier
Gallente
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2008.10.16 22:28:00 - [7]
 

Even I, a Gallente, still call it Caldari Prime.

Which brings up an interesting question: can and will the Federation and State leaderships come to some sort of official compromise on the jurisdiction of Caldari Prime?

It is easy to see why both sides feel so contentious about this. Sitting in Luminaire, a Gallente system, it follows that the Federation would seek to secure all planets in their backyard as a matter of national security. Likewise, Caldari Prime is where the State began, and thus, I believe the Caldari have a right to strive to have their planet. But there is something I think both sides must consider, and that is that both Caldari and Gallents inhabit the planet, and thus, short of something heinous like an ethnic cleansing, the planet's population will never be of only one race.

Understandably, many Gallente fled Caldari Prime when Tibus Heth launched his invasion of the planet. Were I in their shoes I probably would too. However, there are still some Gallente on Caldari Prime who either can't or won't leave. It falls upon the Caldari maintaining the planet at present to ensure not only their citizens' safety on the surface, but those of the Gallente inhabitants as well. But not all the rules are set in stone, and thus I feel the Gallente and Caldari governments, along with possibly some CONCORD mediation, come to some form of final decisions on which nation holds what jurisdictions when it comes to Caldari Prime. Ambiguious rules and ideals, along with political environment, have led us to this point, and I think that citizens on both sides are tired of the fighting and bickering over one planet.

Come to a decision, make it final, and close the book on the Caldari Prime dispute once and for all.

Sepherim
Amarr
Ordo Quaesitoris
Ordo Magna
Posted - 2008.10.17 00:36:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
I'd call this a "limited war"-- it's definitely warfare, but on a small-ish scale and by restricted means.
Also, considering that the Intaki homeworld is within the zone of the contest, it's not as though the Federation, just for example, stands to lose nothing.


I believe Miss Jenneth is right. This is a war, I've seen too many die in service on both sides I usually meet, to call it anything else. of course, it isn't as massive as if the nations were directly facing each other again... but this doesn't make it any less of a war.

Willem Revolati
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2008.10.19 19:36:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Willem Revolati on 19/10/2008 19:37:15
Originally by: Sepherim
This is a war, I've seen too many die in service on both sides I usually meet, to call it anything else.


Aye, this is very true. The constant battles leave far too many deaths to be ingored as a war. It is a grim fact, but none the less very true.

And Robert, my bruv, I would not call the Matari's current conquest to free our enslaved loved ones 'an escalation of the century old frozen conflicts', undoubtedly I would agree with your use of this phrase with regards the Gallente-Caldari war, but not for our conquest my bruv... it is very much enflamed and is an escalation of events that are happening to our kin every single day that they are in Amarr captivity, not centuries ago.

Even so, I do wish every day that there might be an alternate to the violence, I take no satisfaction in killing another person no matter what they have done, and any sane being would be a liar to say otherwise. I suppose the problem is that not one of the Factions are willing to concede to anything. Pride can be a dangerous emotion at times.

As for the continuity of trade... Well Tradesman and profitters can be very quick to establish themselves as 'Neutral' during war time, and I'm sure the Factions are very happy to let them, afterall with out the trade they would not be able to fuel their conflicts. So perhaps it is something of a mutual agreement between the conflicting nations. Though I agree that if things get more and more hostile and out-of-hand, we might soon see an end to this as the borders between the nations go into complete lockdown.

BloodBird
Nova Foundry
Posted - 2008.10.19 20:02:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Zagamesh
Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Also, considering that the Intaki homeworld is within the zone of the contest, it's not as though the Federation, just for example, stands to lose nothing.


Yes, that would be a crying shame. I don't think the Federation could stand such a loss.
The Intaki philosophy as championed by President Foiritain of turning all our swords into plowshares and promoting foreign military adventurism has most certainly guided and protected our Federation and her citizens. I'm sure all the Federal citizens currently on Luminaire 7 would just hate it if Intaki were to fall to the Caldari. Yes, what a shame that would be indeed.


Your oppinion has been noted.


 

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