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Amy Winter
Caldari
RSP Enterprises
Posted - 2008.10.11 18:50:00 - [1]
 

Hi
I am about to start doing some lvl 4 missions.
I have trained up my skills to fly a raven and i have now BS lvl 5, all shield skills lvl 4 and basic support skills at 5. (i have been in EVE for several years, just havent done missions with raven).

I am now looking for a good raven setup.
What kind of tank is good. I enjoy doing missions semi-afk and pretty laidback, but still effective. I have done many many missions with my Amarr char, with an maxed abaddon.
Now i want to do it with a raven.

Any suggestion and tips?

Here is a something that i worked on in EFT, but i dont know how it will work in space.

[Raven, New Setup 2]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Heat Dissipation Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Cap Recharger II
Large Shield Booster II

'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Note this setup is for Amarr missions, tanking em and therm damage.
It 100% cap stable, can run booster forever.

What do you think?

(i wont buy faction etc stuff now)

waiting on t2 skills to be ready for better mods, but so far i go with bast named.

Srvin Taisorgky
Posted - 2008.10.11 22:02:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Srvin Taisorgky on 11/10/2008 22:05:18
I wouldn't do anything in a Raven semi or full afk. You want as much Caldari faction stuff as you can eventually get. Any type of shield hp reinforcement should be passive so you have the cap for the shield booster (the Caldari faction is good enough,) in case you run into trouble and need time to warp out with the ship still intact. The low's are good, You might or might not want the invulnerability depending on the npc's you are fighting.

I wouldn't waste the slot for a recharger(you said you could run the booster forever but that doesn't help if you're taking more damage than the booster can repair), better to fit a an npc specific amp; the highs, like I said get the Caldari faction launchers, and fit 2 med guns (will take care of frigs and if skills are up you can even take out some bc's. Don't forget the tech ii drones (that you will loose anyway from time to time.) You want to train up anything and everything related to shields and cruise missiles. If you want to keep flying Caldari save up for a CNR, the extra protection and missile slot does make a difference on the harder missions.

PS, always be sure to take out the scramblers in a mission; you get stuck in a Raven while being pounded and the end result is not pretty.

[btw, Caldari don't tank well, you are a massive damage machine to take out the npcs, that reduces the damage you are taking (could call it offensive tanking.)]

Good luck.

PS -- I forgot to mention that you can active tank and be virtually invulnerable and do it afk but it will cost you about 5 billion.

Harrent
Posted - 2008.10.11 22:21:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Harrent on 11/10/2008 22:24:23
Ive successfully completed several level 4's in the past few days with the following setup. Works well, but with some kinks that i have to iron out with skill training.

The setup generally leaves me with 82-89% resistance in the two specific dmg types used during mission, if mission demands all damage types i fit one of each hardener and a T2 invuln field.

LOWS:
BCS II x 3
Cap Flux Coil II x 2 (i dont need extra power grid for my setup)

MIDS:
T2 Rat spec hardener x 4 (2 of each dmg type)
1 Large Shield Booster II
Invuln Field II (unless dmg of one type is larger than other)

HIGHS (2 blank):
XT9000 Launchers x 6 (Carry 2500 of each missle type)

CCC x 3

This setup i can permarun all hardeners and use the Shield Booster for about 10 full minutes before cap gets below 20% and i cycle it for best results.

Good luck!

PS: PDS are good only if you need the powergrid, if you have high enough skills (which you should because i have about 1/8th of my total powergrid left with no PDS's fitted) you can forgo them in favor of something (such as cap flux coils) that give you a higher yeild for your slot (PDS's only give a 3-8% increase in various traits).

Amy Winter
Caldari
RSP Enterprises
Posted - 2008.10.12 09:14:00 - [4]
 

capacitor flux coils give you minus cap amount and higher recharge rate.
according to the stats using two PDU´s instead of two coils it gives less time that i can run the tank compared with the PDU´s.


Aioa
Planetary Assault Systems
Posted - 2008.10.12 09:24:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Amy Winter
capacitor flux coils give you minus cap amount and higher recharge rate.
according to the stats using two PDU´s instead of two coils it gives less time that i can run the tank compared with the PDU´s.


EFT doesn't tell the whole story. If you're not running a perma-tank, you will be turning the booster on and off. The important thing here is how quickly your cap recharges, not how long you can run it before capping out.

Amy Winter
Caldari
RSP Enterprises
Posted - 2008.10.12 10:06:00 - [6]
 

made my first lvl4 mission in a raven today.
it dident go very well.

i melted very fast. was doing a damsel in distress.
30 sec and my shield was gone, i dident kill the shield on the first BS.

(i know how to do the missions, i have done them allot in amarr ships).

my steup was permarunning x-large booster (with cap booster help), 4 hardeners.

why did my tank just fail fail.

LukaszR
Caldari
Under Heavy Fire
Posted - 2008.10.12 10:49:00 - [7]
 

There still are some missions you need to do from longer distances, thats why u r using cruise missiles not torpedoes...

Amy Winter
Caldari
RSP Enterprises
Posted - 2008.10.12 11:02:00 - [8]
 

so this means that i wont be able to do missions with a Raven as i do missions with my dear Abaddon?

The raven cant tank as a Abaddon?
The raven dont have the same DPS amount (against sansha/blood/merc) as the Abaddon?

I have a 40mil SP Amarr BS pilot. I do missions, i have it full DPS fitted. I go in, start tank and guns and do never ever have problems.
Now i want to do missions with a raven, just as easy. I figurd a raven was a good mission ship as everyone is using it.

But i think i need to understand what tactic i should use when farming missions with a raven.

I only do missions for the ISK, i only go for bountys and i want to do them as fast as possible, and as easy as possible.




TekRa
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.10.12 13:01:00 - [9]
 

if you already have a great BS to do misssions with, why change?

my basic raven fit is:
6*Arbalest Cruise
2*whatever
---
3*Shield Hardener II(rat specific)
1*multispec hardener (or cap recharger II)
1*Shield Boost Amp
1*XL-Shield Booster
---
1*Damage Control II
2*BCS II
2*PDS II

I've done all the level 4's so far with no problems (well the occasional warp out if i aggro too many), and am just upgrading modules as I see fit.

Amy Winter
Caldari
RSP Enterprises
Posted - 2008.10.12 13:11:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: TekRa
if you already have a great BS to do misssions with, why change?

my basic raven fit is:
6*Arbalest Cruise
2*whatever
---
3*Shield Hardener II(rat specific)
1*multispec hardener (or cap recharger II)
1*Shield Boost Amp
1*XL-Shield Booster
---
1*Damage Control II
2*BCS II
2*PDS II

I've done all the level 4's so far with no problems (well the occasional warp out if i aggro too many), and am just upgrading modules as I see fit.


nice to hear that it works.
will train for more t2 modules before i try another mission with my raven.
reason for changing char and ship is becouse the amarr char is my PVP char, i hate to move and do mission. i want to be able to pve when i got time over when i dont pvp, not jump clone away and farm missions as fast as i can.

t2 missiles and t2 booster is what i need now.
then ill try to use your setup and see how it works.

but can someone explain some tactics...
i am used to go in with close range guns and pawn with a armor tank.
raven have huge range... do i NEED to go in at range, move out of range (before i agro)?

some missions are deadspace/gate... how do i get at range in them?

i dont like the sniping tactic, i want to just go in, kill and go out.
not travel 100km to a gate/container after everything is dead.


TekRa
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.10.12 13:33:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Amy Winter

....



for most missions only a few groups will aggro you when you warp in, so just keep the ship still and only fire at those that attack to start with. this keeps the number of attackers low and then you just kill one group at a time. this can't be any thing new to you tho? or did you just warp in and aggro the whole mission?

eve-survival has all (most) of the mission details, which groups to aggro first, what hardeners to use etc.

as for T2 missiles: they aren't worth using if you actually want to make a profit on the missions, T2 Launchers are harder to fit and have the same RoF . the only difference being their capacity but most BS's will go down before you need to reload anyway (24cruise in arby).

Amy Winter
Caldari
RSP Enterprises
Posted - 2008.10.12 14:28:00 - [12]
 

yes i know how to manage a mission (spawns etc and using eve survival guides).

An example from my testing with the raven.
Mission: damsel in distress.
Ship: Raven.
Fitting: cruise named launchers, XL booster named, cap booster named, 3x hardeners t2 (kin, therm, expl) 1x invul field t2. 3x ballistic t2 2x flux coils t2

I warped in to 0km.
Killed everything except Kruul. Tank barly holding, but it worked.
Recharged shield to 100%
Agressed Kruul.
A bunch of new BS´s spawned.
All about 14km from me.
XL booster was running all the time.
I agressed BS number 1.
They agressed me and i took heavy damage.
My shield went down fast, XL booster still online (cap booster was used).
NPC BS shield was almost down to armor.
I had to warp out, my shield was almost gone and i could not tank atall. Even tho with 3x hardeners, 1x invul and a XL booster all permarunning.

I warped in with my amarr char and pawned the mission in a few mins, armor tank was barly used. LOOL

Any thoughts why this happend?
Dont tell me how i should warp in at range, dont have to tank etc. I dont want to waste time moving to range, warp in and out, travel 100km to container etc. etc.
I just want to be able to tank as i do in the abaddon and do damage to the NPC with a caldari ship, raven. Is this possible? Or does the raven suck compared to the abaddon?

Ghoest
Posted - 2008.10.12 16:06:00 - [13]
 

Here are the basics for any PVE raven set up.

6 cruise launchers(Arbalest, T2 or faction)

3 mission specific shield hardeners(T2 or better)
1 shield amp
1 large or XL shield booster(T2 or better)

3 BCS(T2 or better)


No matter what you want those things. More than 3 hardeners is a waste.

Amy Winter
Caldari
RSP Enterprises
Posted - 2008.10.12 16:12:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Ghoest
Here are the basics for any PVE raven set up.

6 cruise launchers(Arbalest, T2 or faction)

3 mission specific shield hardeners(T2 or better)
1 shield amp
1 large or XL shield booster(T2 or better)

3 BCS(T2 or better)

No matter what you want those things. More than 3 hardeners is a waste.



I see these kind of setups often on this forum. But as you can see im not very successfull.
I think i am looking for something els that can answer, what I do wrong!?

If you read above post´s...

Compared to the armor tank the shield is going down very fast and the booster is the only thing stopping, resistance seems to be low (yes hardeners are online).

Atimathus Stuhlinger
Caldari
Imperial Coalition
Posted - 2008.10.12 16:27:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Amy Winter

Any thoughts why this happend?
Dont tell me how i should warp in at range, dont have to tank etc. I dont want to waste time moving to range, warp in and out, travel 100km to container etc. etc.
I just want to be able to tank as i do in the abaddon and do damage to the NPC with a caldari ship, raven. Is this possible? Or does the raven suck compared to the abaddon?


I would definitely try to go for a T2 XL Shield Booster with a named (or T2 if you can) Shield Boost Amp. The setups that you and other ppl have posted so far are identical to what me and my buddies use. I can solo-tank "almost" all lvl4 missions without having to warp out. It just depends on the mission and if I make a mistake with attracting too much aggro. (I don't recall ever having a problem with the Damsel in Distress mission.)

You definitely shouldn't have to be doing the in-range/out-of-range tactic either...

But your claims of being able to run a mission in a armor-tanked Abbadon with barely a scratch make me think that I need to start cross-training for Amarr. Very Happy

Nagash Kahul
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.12 16:29:00 - [16]
 

I'm no expert at all, but the Abbadon has 5% armour resists per lvl of Battleship skill. If you have that at 5, that's 25%.

The Raven does not have that. So that's a gap of 25% in resistances between an Abbadon and a Raven. Might that be the problem?

Harrent
Posted - 2008.10.12 17:39:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Harrent on 12/10/2008 18:06:20
Edited by: Harrent on 12/10/2008 17:46:35

TESTED:

The setup above that i posted i have no problems with, the cap holds at 85-90% with all four or five hardeners running. (EDIT: have replaced 2 hardeners with 2 Shield AMPS, seems to work just as well). In addition, i fit the Large shield booster rather than an XL so that i do not 'forget' about it and drain un-needed cap. It can run for about 8-10 minutes before i have to cycle it at 20-40% cap.

I have just finished missions 1-4 of the Enemies Abound Mission Series, hesitating on 5 as i think ill get annihilated without the enemy thinking twice. I have a mere 5.5M skillpoints but my entire career has been circled around making the raven work well.

Throughout all the Enemies Abound missions the shield held between 50-80% with 4 of 5 reducing my tank to 30% before warp out, i warped out once because i had to and once because they shot down all my goddang drones :(... Other than that i have not had problems.

The raven is stronger in resists native to it (as are all ships) so that means taking on a mission with high EM dmg will be more difficult than missions that do Kin/Therm.



FLUX COIL ISSUE

Permantly running your hardeners is mandatory in a Raven and being able to recharge your cap is very wise as well to avoid getting ganked by a scrambler before you have the ability to warp out. Therefore, why would you choose to use a XL Shield booster and reduce your cap recharge rate by about -30% (2 PDU's vs 2 flux) using PDU's?

I dont know for sure, but thats how i have always looked at it.

If each Flux gives 26% recharge rate to your cap, with penalty effectively being about 32.76% ([.26*.26)+.26]) total bonus; however, reducing the total cap by a margin of 11%([.10*.10)+.10]) isnt all that bad considering that you will almost never run out of capacitor. By comparison the benefit of a single PDU is ~10% (depreciating as did the flux coils with each new unit added) vs the total gain of being able to run everything indefinitely if need be. Overall, the gain is about the same, but the person who tanks longest wins missions more effectively, not the one who can tank more for a given amount of time and then has to warp.

Statistically, 32.76(recharge rate increase) - 11% (loss of total cap) = 21.76% gain vs PDU's giving 8% recharge rate bonus ([.08*.08] +.08) = 8.64% increase. Add the increase in cap .05*.05+.05 = 5.25% increase. Effectively giving you a total of a 13.89% increase add in the Shiled bonus .05*.05+.05 = 5.25% increase you may get 19.14% increase. You are basically losing a 2% gain using PDU's strictly speaking in terms number crunching at any particular moment.

In the end though, the person with a cap that never depletes while running similar equipment will always beat out a capacitor that steadily drains itself dry.

EDIT: Edited statistical data for accuracy

Hormone1971
Caldari
Neutral Industries L8
Posted - 2008.10.13 04:43:00 - [18]
 

I just want to be able to tank as i do in the abaddon and do damage to the NPC with a caldari ship, raven. Is this possible? Or does the raven suck compared to the abaddon?


Dude, if you want that, then get an Abaddon.
If all ships could use the same tactic then we all would only need one kind of ship.
Just face it. not all ships are for close range.
The only close ish range raven is a Torp raven but you need to train higher for that. it puts out more DPS than a cruise raven, so shield wise the same, but kill quicker so potentially reducing the DPS delivered to you.

Elhina Novae
HAMMER -N- SICKEL
Posted - 2008.10.13 04:51:00 - [19]
 

Raven Navy Issue:

7 x Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher ( Use T2 or named instead )
1 x Tractor Beam I

2 x Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster (30mil a piece nothing expensive)
3 x Specific Shield Hardeners
1 x Specific Shield Hardeners/Shield Boost Amplifier

4 x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System (Use T2 instead)
1 x Damage Control II

1 x Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II (40mil in jita w00t!)
2 x Capacitor Control Circuit I

I love my raven <3

Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
Posted - 2008.10.13 10:50:00 - [20]
 

what's your DPS in that thing ? missiles and drones separately please

BATMorpheous
Caldari
Paradigm Empire
Posted - 2008.10.13 12:00:00 - [21]
 

ive been also working on this problem for a while amy, i also have the same problem but im using a cn raven but whilst messing around with fits i accidently stumbled onto this build.....(this build adapted from cn raven for raven looking at mission v's em therm)

HIGHS > 6 x cruise launchers named or faction 1 x heavy named nos 1 x med named nos

MEDS > XL Sheild booster named or t2 , 1 x passive em, 1 x passive therm, 1 x active em, 1 x active therm, 1 large sheild extender t2.

LOWS > 2 x bcu , 1 x cap flux, 1 x power relay 1 x pdu

RIGS > 3 x capacitor control

DRONES > 5 x MED THERM damage drones ,5 x LIGHT THERM DRONES(for frigs)

what i usually do is pick a battleship and a bc to save till last and use them as cap using the nos's on them everyone i know told me "u cant use nos's on npc's...well i beg to differ give it a try
with out the nos's my cap ran dry with the 2 nos's running my cap stabalised at 47% and perma ran the xlbooster...dont bother with eft as it doesnt take this factor into account :)


Ghengis Tia
Posted - 2008.10.13 14:59:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Ghengis Tia on 13/10/2008 15:10:51
Okay, you've got cruise launchers and missiles with 100+km range and you warp in at 0km??!? You just want to test your tank or what?

I just did Damsel Level IV for the first time in my CNR, apprehensive as I warped in at 70km. Like shooting fish in a barrel. Had to feather my Lg SB a few times, other than that, yawn...

You need to fit Torps if you go in that close, you might give them a try. The CNR has 50% more shield and armor than the Raven, but I'm sure a basic Raven/Cruise would do well if you kept some distance.

The only time I had trouble was with Recon, as I thought I could blast my way out of it. Wrong. The spawns come automatically every 60-90secs, the incoming DPS builds to a crescendo.

Recon is set up to let you fly in, tank some and hit the acceleration gate, not take on the roomful of Mercs. It can be done solo, but I think you have to warp in and out a number of times. It might be able to be kited, but you've got to move away from the warp in point fast.

Amy Winter
Caldari
RSP Enterprises
Posted - 2008.10.13 15:52:00 - [23]
 

heh Recon is one of the easier missions with the Abaddon, i like it.
I just go in and pawn everything, quick and easy.

Well anyway, it seems i need to learn how the raven work and i think i will adapt and like it in time. Just gotta find a setup i like and then work my way upwards :p

InfamousOne
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:14:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: InfamousOne on 14/10/2008 12:21:23
You may or may not have known/been told this, but you should also train your engineering skills, almost all of the skills in engineering will help with the Raven tank is some way, whether it be resistances, recharge rate (shield and cap), shield HP, etc.... This is my mission raven setup...

Damage Control II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Signal Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

X-Large Shield Booster II
Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Faction ammo of req dmg type
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Faction ammo of req dmg type
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Faction ammo of req dmg type
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Faction ammo of req dmg type
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Faction ammo of req dmg type
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Faction ammo of req dmg type
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

I basically warp in, use my hammerheads to deal with frigates and help with cruiser's, concentrate my cruise on BS first then work my way down. I kill whatever I agro'd when I came in, then I pick the next group in range. Cruise can usually pop a good bit before they get near you because of their range once the frigs get to you, set your drones on them. With good skills with this setup you can target at 112km and hit from that far away and you should only run the booster when your shields hit about 50% or so, the invuln and dmg control can permarun without hurting your cap. Just my 2 cents, hope it helps.

Inf

Sombike
Caldari
Enterprise Estonia
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.10.14 12:29:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Amy Winter

Here is a something that i worked on in EFT, but i dont know how it will work in space.

[Raven, New Setup 2]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Heat Dissipation Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Cap Recharger II
Large Shield Booster II

'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
'Malkuth' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I
Capacitor Control Circuit I



XL-Booster and a Shield Boost Amp with 4 hardeners, depending on ur mission ... Also, if u can get ur skills up, throw in a Heavy NOS in the highslots, and get T2 launchers.

Srioghal moDhream
Posted - 2008.10.14 16:04:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Elhina Novae
Raven Navy Issue:

7 x Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher ( Use T2 or named instead )
1 x Tractor Beam I

2 x Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster (30mil a piece nothing expensive)
3 x Specific Shield Hardeners
1 x Specific Shield Hardeners/Shield Boost Amplifier

4 x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System (Use T2 instead)
1 x Damage Control II

1 x Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II (40mil in jita w00t!)
2 x Capacitor Control Circuit I

I love my raven <3


This works nicely, and the best part about it is that you can put torps in there as well, just drop a hardener for a TP and use some EW drones. sahweet. especially for damsel, those merc bs pop like mwding t1 frigates to torps.


 

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