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Jurgen Falkenberg
Gallente
Posted - 2008.10.10 13:14:00 - [1]
 

Hi,
I am currently trying to decide if to use a Target Painter, and, to correctly evaluate it, I would like to know what's the effect of Signature Resolution -vs- Signature Radius.

Is there a formula that describes the Damage Reduction effect for when your signature resolution is larger than the target's Signature Radius?

I have found one for missiles, but I woul like to have the one for other weapons as well.

Thanks,
JF

Tanith YarnDemon
Posted - 2008.10.10 13:23:00 - [2]
 

Basically, turrets deal the same damage whatever the signature radius, however they hit more rarely, through the same kind of ratio as missiles.

However, this isn't entirely true, since hit quality will decrease with smaller signature radius.

Galan Undris
Posted - 2008.10.10 13:26:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon
However, this isn't entirely true, since hit quality will decrease with smaller signature radius.
There's no modification of hit quality based on signature size alone. Smaller sig -> worse hit quality is only a result of lower hit chance.

DubanFP
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.10.10 13:36:00 - [4]
 

Tracking is your abillity to hit a moving target. Signature resolution v signature size doesn't actually cause you to miss. It acts as a modifier that increases or decreases the effectiveness of your turret's tracking. If both you and your opponents are perfectly still "relative to each other" you can hit with 100% accuracy no matter how small he is.

Jurgen Falkenberg
Gallente
Posted - 2008.10.10 13:44:00 - [5]
 

Ok, I take that while with missiles a smaller signature radius decreases damage, with guns it decreases hit chance (and quality).

Does anybody have any link or refence to some mathematical formula that quantifies such decrease?

Galan Undris
Posted - 2008.10.10 14:56:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Galan Undris on 10/10/2008 14:57:04
Gun tracking formula

It only give you hit chance, hit quality is directly related to chance, but I don't recall the exact formula. Think of it as "The best hits turn into misses first", Im sure someone will post a link/formula. The turret tracking guide on this site is a bit misleading in this regard as it also only gives you hit chance and doesn't account for quality. It also leads many to believe it's an independent component, which it isn't.

Missiles have a linear decrease with sig. radius. The official guide is accurate.

edit: Linky

Wannabehero
Wayward Ventures
Posted - 2008.10.10 14:58:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Wannabehero on 10/10/2008 14:58:53
Originally by: Jurgen Falkenberg
Ok, I take that while with missiles a smaller signature radius decreases damage, with guns it decreases hit chance (and quality).

Does anybody have any link or refence to some mathematical formula that quantifies such decrease?


I stole this from this post by Liang over in the Blaster thread

Hit chance, Original Formula by Naughty Boy

((1.0/2.0) ** ((((Transv/(Range*Tracking))*(Sig_Res/Sig_Rad)) ** 2) +((max(0,Range-Optimal))/Falloff) ** 2))

Original hit quality formula by KzIg (http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?p=114333#114333)

Expected damage per shot = normal damage * [min(chance to hit, 1%)*3 + max(0,chance to hit - 1%)*(0.99+chance to hit)/2]

tracking_penalty = Transv / (Range * Tracking)
sig_penalty = (Sig_Res / Sig_Rad)
optimal_penalty = max(0, Range - Optimal)
hit_chance = 0.5 ** ((( tracking_penalty * sig_penalty) ** 2) + ((optimal_penalty / Falloff) ** 2))
hit_quality = (min(hit_chance, 0.01)*3 + max(0.0, hit_chance - 0.01) * (0.99 + hit_chance) / 2)


In any case, the boys over at scrapheap challenge really know there stuff. Checking their forums might get you more/better information. At least more/better than what I know.

The Vixen
Stone Rosary
Posted - 2008.10.10 14:59:00 - [8]
 

http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g61_5.asp

See page 5 in this guide.

Saietor Blackgreen
Armored Saints
Posted - 2008.10.10 15:52:00 - [9]
 

Increase in target signature radius has exactly same effect on your guns, as increasing of their trackung. I.e. +30% tracking = +30% target signature.

In terms of effective DPS increase, it will depend on your current tracking. Dependence is a bit complex to describe it in simple terms (see the formula above) - the best way to understand how your DPS on target will change is to put numbers into tracking guide and vary the target signature manually.

Very roughly - increase of tracking or signature radius will aidf you the best, when your chances to hit are around 50% - the absolute increase in DPS will be the highest. If your CTH is lower or higher, impact will be less noticeable.

Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2008.10.10 23:39:00 - [10]
 

in the overview you can put 'Angular Velocity' if its under optimal, and under your angular velocity (check gun for the exact number with your skills) then you will hit for full damage + Quality.

Arkeladin
Posted - 2008.10.11 00:03:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Jurgen Falkenberg
Hi,
I am currently trying to decide if to use a Target Painter, and, to correctly evaluate it, I would like to know what's the effect of Signature Resolution -vs- Signature Radius.

Is there a formula that describes the Damage Reduction effect for when your signature resolution is larger than the target's Signature Radius?

I have found one for missiles, but I woul like to have the one for other weapons as well.

Thanks,
JF


Sure, there's equations out there to describe it - the way I find it handy to think about it is this:

Your "signature resolution" measurement is a measure of how accurate your weapon is. Just like in the real world, "accuracy" is measured by how small a circle will accomodate all fired projectiles at the weapon's optimum range. For something like a Barret sniper rifle, that measurement is 1 inch at 2200 feet range. For out weapons, similar.

Now the enemy's "sig radius" is a measure of how big that target appears to our sensors, our "sight". If our "sight" is a lot bigger than the actual size of the target, we will miss more often, score glancing hits more often - simply because our accurate "hole" is bigger than the target.

A target painter acts similar to a zoom function on a scope, making the apparent target "size" bigger, so our accurate "hole" more closely matches it. Therefore, our guns get better hits, and more of them - as they in effect have better "aim".

Again, this is not a exact description of how it's designed to function, as far as I('ve found it does describe the eff3ects with a good degree of accuracy.


Again, this is done in the Real World, and is probrably where CCP got the idea - if any of the employees target-shoot, anyway :)


 

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