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blankseplocked Can someone show me the math on Vargur DPS vs other minmatar BS?
 
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martin louis
Posted - 2008.10.10 11:01:00 - [1]
 

I've been flying a typhoon for about 18 months (love it) but I am trying out the Vargur for missions now.

I am not quite sure I understand how the bonuses work.

Specifically the 100% bonus to projectile weapon damage per level. Even with only 4 turrets I do not understand how another minmatar BS could compare with that DPS.

I do miss the typhoon's drone bay.

Galan Undris
Posted - 2008.10.10 11:08:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Galan Undris on 10/10/2008 11:11:21


1. 100% damage means double damage.
2. Mealstrom has twice as many turrets as the Vargur.
3. They both have the same RoF bonus.
4. 2*4 = 1*8, Mealstrom has identical turret dps to the vargur inside optimal (assuming lvl5 skills and the same number of gyros)

Not counting falloff and tracking advantage, those make up quite a bit I imagine.

Pry Maraai
Amarr
Hyper-Nova
Posted - 2008.10.10 11:18:00 - [3]
 

Vargur: 8 effective turrets, +25% RoF
Maelstrom: 8 effective turrets, +25% RoF
Tempest: 7.5 effective turrets, +25% RoF
Typhoon: All kinds of weapons, and very high potential dps.

The great thing with the Vargur isnt its dps, its the low ammo use, the huge cargo bay, and the possibility to loot and salvage missions on the run, and a bit easier to fit.

Fenren
Minmatar
Bure Astro Photography
Posted - 2008.10.10 13:49:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Fenren on 10/10/2008 13:51:51
Originally by: Pry Maraai
Vargur: 8 effective turrets, +25% RoF
Maelstrom: 8 effective turrets, +25% RoF
Tempest: 7.5 effective turrets, +25% RoF
Typhoon: All kinds of weapons, and very high potential dps.

The great thing with the Vargur isnt its dps, its the low ammo use, the huge cargo bay, and the possibility to loot and salvage missions on the run, and a bit easier to fit.


not only that but it can use ac's for great effect in missions. it is great at taking out smaller ships, probably the best marauder for small ships killing and does decesnt damage at enough range.

with ac's the ammo consumtion is at a quite good level... I use on avarage about 1,5k shots. compared to my previus ac-Mach wich used up to 4k a mission it is really nice.

Zeerover
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2008.10.10 13:50:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: martin louis


Specifically the 100% bonus to projectile weapon damage per level.


The 100% is a fixed bonus and is not per level.

Triest
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.10.10 14:30:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Pry Maraai

The great thing with the Vargur isnt its dps, its the low ammo use, the huge cargo bay, and the possibility to loot and salvage missions on the run, and a bit easier to fit.


The Vargur is far, far harder to fit than a Maelstrom. The powergrid limitation means that you have no choice but to either fit autocannons, or shoehorn on 1200mm artillery with at least a couple power diagnostics. There's no hope of a reasonable fitting with 1400s, which the Maelstrom can accomplish easily. There are reasons to fly a Vargur over the Maelstrom, but 'ease of fitting' is emphatically not one.

achoura
Posted - 2008.10.10 14:54:00 - [7]
 

Best thing to do is invest in crystals (if you dont have them) and use small boosters, frees up a huge amount of fitting room.

Kurull Skullsplitter
Minmatar
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H.
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
Posted - 2008.10.10 16:19:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Kurull Skullsplitter on 10/10/2008 16:24:30

Originally by: Pry Maraai
Vargur: 8 effective turrets, +25% RoF
Maelstrom: 8 effective turrets, +25% RoF
Tempest: 7.5 effective turrets, +25% RoF
Typhoon: All kinds of weapons, and very high potential dps.

The great thing with the Vargur isnt its dps, its the low ammo use, the huge cargo bay, and the possibility to loot and salvage missions on the run, and a bit easier to fit.
This looks OK (as if I would know if it wasn't) but you left off a Vargur Maruader skill bonus applicable to the ship.

Each level of Maruader skill increases the turret tracking speed by 7.5%. All else being equal this should result in the Vargur turrets being superior to any other Minnie BS turrets including the Maelstrom in regard to accuracy of hits thus average dps should be higher in a 1=2 turret comparison where the Vargur 100% damage Role bonus is equalized by a comparison to 2 non bonus turrets.

The Vargur also enjoys an additional Minmatar Battleship bonus the others do not. The 10% per level (must train to 5) falloff bonus giving it superior reach over all the others in regards to turrets only.

The falloff bonus and tracking bonus should result in a final dps placing the Vargur superior to the Maelstrom and Tempest (again turrets only).

I would add it is difficult to compare the Typhoon based on bonuses alone as the best fitting I can find employs missiles because of the missile RoF bonus. But everything I do in EFT shows it significantly superior to the Vargur in final dps especially when I include the drones.

However, the Vargur Alpha strike is nothing but awesome.

EpicFailTroll
Posted - 2008.10.10 16:35:00 - [9]
 

2 RCU2s, AWU5 and a 3%pg implant enable you to fit 3 1400IIs and a 1200II
3 gyros, near maxed gunnery skills -> x30 dmg multiplier
Tracking bonus + tracking computer -> devastation

Minmatar dps is supposedly not great, but thats not taking into equation the tracking. When you pull out excellent shots quite often and have a monstrous damage multiplier, well...

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2008.10.10 16:47:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: martin louis

Specifically the 100% bonus to projectile weapon damage per level. Even with only 4 turrets I do not understand how another minmatar BS could compare with that DPS.

I do miss the typhoon's drone bay.


Ok, so:
A 5% ROF bonus = Turrets * 1.33
A 5% Damage bonus = Turrets * 1.25

Phoon = 4 * 1.33 = 5.32 turrets + 5.32 launchers + 5 heavy drones
Pest = 6 * 1.25 * 1.33 = 9.975 turrets + 2 launchers + 5 med drones
Mael = 8 * 1.33 = 10.64 turrets + 5 med drones/4 heavies
Vargur = 4 * 2 * 1.33 = 10.64 turrets + 5 med drones

The Mael and Vargur can typically shield tank and thus can fit more damage mods.

-Liang

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2008.10.10 21:27:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: EpicFailTroll
Minmatar dps is supposedly not great, but thats not taking into equation the tracking. When you pull out excellent shots quite often and have a monstrous damage multiplier, well...


Supposedly? You mean the worst by far combined with the lowest range, amirite?

By the way, (excellent shots) hit quality is never over 102%, and that's anywhere within optimal for any weapon and is independent of tracking when your guns can track above your target's rad/s. Any increase you think you've seen is just suggestive of the large damage modifier.

Which brings me to exactly that, large damage multiplier and slow ROF = fail. Everyone knows DPS (and range) trumps all in missions, and if you're suggesting that artillery is anything above mediocre, you need to seriously rethink your view of EVE.

Seriously, go back to that hole you were hiding in since you got thwarted in the minnie thread. If you have lies slander and BS to offer, take a look at CAOD and C+P.

Megan Maynard
Minmatar
Navigators of the Abyss
Posted - 2008.10.10 22:02:00 - [12]
 

Astro Phobic strikes again.


 

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