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blankseplocked Nano-nerf: Yes/No?
 
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Reaver Babe
Posted - 2008.10.08 17:22:00 - [1]
 

Last month CCP was gung-ho about this nano nerf that would have crippled many minmatar ships to the point of uselessness as well as blasterboat pilots. Now I hear crickets. Will it happen? If so, when? have there been any new details released on it? I need to know because it will affect my training path over the next few weeks.

I was going to crosstrain to minmatar but now I'm not sure. Will HACs for the most part even have a use now? Or will ships like the Deimos, Sacrilege, and Zealot be replaced by t1 battleships?

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2008.10.08 17:23:00 - [2]
 

There's a live dev blog on it in a few hours, IIRC. Go check out the Eve Info portal for details. Record and post it for me to listen to while I'm at work.

-Liang

Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2008.10.08 17:26:00 - [3]
 

I think its really good that this is taking time. There are a lot of soverly simple, unbalanced, game-breaking changes that could be put on TQ tomorrow. . .but thats not what the folks at CCP want to do - they want to 'get it right' - a perfect world where speed fits are still possible.

This is going to be a long process - and thats a sign of promise.

Kendon Riddick
Posted - 2008.10.08 17:31:00 - [4]
 

the main vibe i think is this:

People want to know if there is going to be a change to nanoships and if there is when it is. If its 6 motnhs to a year away they can get some nano gangs togther and fire fire with fire. While they dont know whats going to happen they sit by and get owned by them daily.

adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
Posted - 2008.10.08 18:05:00 - [5]
 

btw, minmatar is more than nanoRolling Eyes

just had to post that since OP seemed to think so (sorry if you didn't)

CrayC
Gallente
CrayC Inc.
Posted - 2008.10.08 18:06:00 - [6]
 

I love when people wants to train for FOTM ships, only because they are FOTM Laughing

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2008.10.08 18:10:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: adriaans
btw, minmatar is more than nanoRolling Eyes

just had to post that since OP seemed to think so (sorry if you didn't)


I agree. My Tempest is completely awesome and far better than any Raven or Apoc.

.

.

.

There's really two kinds of (successful) Minnie ships: Oversized plate+AC and nano. Anything else and you're far better served by having trained another race.

Thus, with an impending nano nerf and CCP's relative refusal to make allowances even for the ships that are supposed to be nanod, I can't in good conscience recommend someone train Minnie.

Alot depends on the upcoming live dev blog. :)

-Liang

adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
Posted - 2008.10.09 00:05:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: adriaans
btw, minmatar is more than nanoRolling Eyes

just had to post that since OP seemed to think so (sorry if you didn't)


I agree. My Tempest is completely awesome and far better than any Raven or Apoc.

.

.

.

There's really two kinds of (successful) Minnie ships: Oversized plate+AC and nano. Anything else and you're far better served by having trained another race.

Thus, with an impending nano nerf and CCP's relative refusal to make allowances even for the ships that are supposed to be nanod, I can't in good conscience recommend someone train Minnie.

Alot depends on the upcoming live dev blog. :)

-Liang



i do agree with you, but you forgot the insane active shield tankers (sleip, claymore particulary (also, cyclone, and mael)), if you want to go BS's or HAC's i would recommend another race, but for t1 cruiser (rupture gank mode) and frigate (rifter) and command ships (sleip and claymore are IMO the best solo CS's), you can't go wrong.

ofc, keep in mind, my view is very focused on solo/very small gangs.

Archonus
Endemic Aggression
Posted - 2008.10.09 02:15:00 - [9]
 

everything sucks, we're all gonna die

Amezyarak
Posted - 2008.10.09 06:01:00 - [10]
 

Nano nerf: Yes/No?

How about "don't really care?"

I'm sure some of us don't really give a damn one way or the other. I think this particular option should be made available.

The Curse being slow(er) all of a sudden isn't the end of the world.

P'uck
Posted - 2008.10.09 08:56:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Amezyarak
How about "don't really care?"

I guess we don't care about a nano nerf...
but about the myriad of gamebreaking changes they were about to introduce as well.

I mean, it was really bizarre. First of all, they were explaining how the top end bonuses multiply your max velocity to ludicrous speed, and then they proceeded to change everything left and right with a sledgehammer, leaving the real root of the problem mostly untouched Laughing

BiggestT
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2008.10.09 09:46:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: BiggestT on 09/10/2008 15:07:25
Originally by: P'uck
Originally by: Amezyarak
How about "don't really care?"

I guess we don't care about a nano nerf...
but about the myriad of gamebreaking changes they were about to introduce as well.

I mean, it was really bizarre. First of all, they were explaining how the top end bonuses multiply your max velocity to ludicrous speed, and then they proceeded to change everything left and right with a sledgehammer, leaving the real root of the problem mostly untouched Laughing


All this and they cld simply have changed poly's + snakes..CCP fail hard on this one

Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
Halinallen veroparatiisi
Inglorious Carebears
Posted - 2008.10.09 09:56:00 - [13]
 

Yes. Why? Because it's not just a nano-nerf it's a balancer for the whole system. There isn't enough difference in speed at the moment. If you compare ships for example with ceptors, some BIG ASS ships are moving WAY too fast in comparison.

Think about sea vessels. A tanker that would go 1/5th the speed of a racing boat! wtf! In general I liked what I heard yesterday, that the speed will be balanced and that good modules will get the statistics they deserve.

I didn't like that speed can't 100% beat a weapon system. If you are in ceptor flying around a BS. There is no way in hell you should be able to blow it out from the sky with only weapons (unless you have small weapons mounted), but the ceptor shouldn't be able to do any significant damage either. It sounded like "even though i have a BS with BUG guns, i can still shoot down ceptors". Has anyone tried to hit fighterjets with Big Bertha?

But yes, nerf is good. It's not the the nanos that are whacked, it's the whole speed balance. Thank god they actually noticed it (and didn't go fixing the modules...again).

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2008.10.09 10:21:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: BiggestT
Originally by: P'uck
Originally by: Amezyarak
How about "don't really care?"

I guess we don't care about a nano nerf...
but about the myriad of gamebreaking changes they were about to introduce as well.

I mean, it was really bizarre. First of all, they were explaining how the top end bonuses multiply your max velocity to ludicrous speed, and then they proceeded to change everything left and right with a sledgehammer, leaving the real root of the problem mostly untouched Laughing


All this and thye cld simply have changed ply's + snakes..CCP fail ahrd on htis one


exactly. a simple nerf to polys and snakes would be enough to counter the "ludicrious speed" nanos, and still be able to make ships that go fast, go fast.

but we all know how CCP deals with nerfs (ie, using a sledgehammer approach to nail down a single nail).

d'hofren
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2008.10.09 10:29:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer
Yes. Why? Because it's not just a nano-nerf it's a balancer for the whole system. There isn't enough difference in speed at the moment. If you compare ships for example with ceptors, some BIG ASS ships are moving WAY too fast in comparison.

Think about sea vessels. A tanker that would go 1/5th the speed of a racing boat! wtf! In general I liked what I heard yesterday, that the speed will be balanced and that good modules will get the statistics they deserve.

I didn't like that speed can't 100% beat a weapon system. If you are in ceptor flying around a BS. There is no way in hell you should be able to blow it out from the sky with only weapons (unless you have small weapons mounted), but the ceptor shouldn't be able to do any significant damage either. It sounded like "even though i have a BS with BUG guns, i can still shoot down ceptors". Has anyone tried to hit fighterjets with Big Bertha?

But yes, nerf is good. It's not the the nanos that are whacked, it's the whole speed balance. Thank god they actually noticed it (and didn't go fixing the modules...again).



sigh.

A) A ceptor will do no damage at all to a BS currently
i) A BS can nos a inty to kill it's cap
ii) A BS can fit light drones to kill the inty
iii) A BS could even try smart bombing an inty
B) The true issue is that the ships that should be fast i.e vaga, and the entire minmatar race are being nerfed in a sledgehammer approach to balancing the ships which shouldn't be stunningly fast. ie. Amarr Hacs / Gall Hacs.

What none vaga pilots just don't understand, is that.. A vaga does sod all damage when it has it's mwd on. A vaga's key skill is being able to run away. The problem is ships like the Sacri and the drone hacs which can perma run mwd, hold a point on a target and hit for full damage...



Crellion
Parental Control
Merciless.
Posted - 2008.10.09 10:34:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: d'hofren
Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer
Yes. Why? Because it's not just a nano-nerf it's a balancer for the whole system. There isn't enough difference in speed at the moment. If you compare ships for example with ceptors, some BIG ASS ships are moving WAY too fast in comparison.

Think about sea vessels. A tanker that would go 1/5th the speed of a racing boat! wtf! In general I liked what I heard yesterday, that the speed will be balanced and that good modules will get the statistics they deserve.

I didn't like that speed can't 100% beat a weapon system. If you are in ceptor flying around a BS. There is no way in hell you should be able to blow it out from the sky with only weapons (unless you have small weapons mounted), but the ceptor shouldn't be able to do any significant damage either. It sounded like "even though i have a BS with BUG guns, i can still shoot down ceptors". Has anyone tried to hit fighterjets with Big Bertha?

But yes, nerf is good. It's not the the nanos that are whacked, it's the whole speed balance. Thank god they actually noticed it (and didn't go fixing the modules...again).



sigh.

A) A ceptor will do no damage at all to a BS currently <WRONG
i) A BS can nos a inty to kill it's cap <WRONG
ii) A BS can fit light drones to kill the inty < NOT A FAST INTY
iii) A BS could even try smart bombing an inty < HAPPENS ALL THE TIME
B) The true issue is that the ships that should be fast i.e vaga, and the entire minmatar race are being nerfed in a sledgehammer approach to balancing the ships which shouldn't be stunningly fast. ie. Amarr Hacs / Gall Hacs. < FINALLY SOMETHING CORRECT

What none vaga pilots just don't understand, is that.. A vaga does sod all damage when it has it's mwd on. A vaga's key skill is being able to run away. The problem is ships like the Sacri and the drone hacs which can perma run mwd, hold a point on a target and hit for full damage... < OVERSIMPLIFICATION





You can do a lot better than this post...


Dana Su'ul
The Icarus Initiative
Posted - 2008.10.09 10:36:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Reaver Babe
Stuff


Adapt.

Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
Posted - 2008.10.09 11:00:00 - [18]
 

No, people are overusing Falcons, Cerbs and Drakes already ... Why would anyone fly anything else when nothing can speedtank missiles anymore?

MMXMMX
Caldari
Bendebeukers
Green Rhino
Posted - 2008.10.09 11:23:00 - [19]
 

yes

Gneeznow
Minmatar
Ship spinners inc
Posted - 2008.10.09 11:44:00 - [20]
 

Yes, so long as down the line falcons get nerfed to be as useless as arazu's and pilgrim's

Xori Ruscuv
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2008.10.09 12:00:00 - [21]
 

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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.10.09 12:03:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Gneeznow
Yes, so long as down the line falcons get nerfed to be as useless as arazu's and pilgrim's


You think arazus and pilgrims will be useless after the patch?

Cornette
Gallente
Solar Revenue Service
TAXU
Posted - 2008.10.09 12:12:00 - [23]
 

While I was mostly positive for a nanonerf when I heard it the first time the negatives is starting to weight over and now I'm not sure I like it anymore.

What I dislike most is the nerf of MWD and change to Warp Scram that will shut the MWD down completely, making a blasterboat a deathtrap for the pilot.

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2008.10.09 12:14:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Pan Crastus
No, people are overusing Falcons, Cerbs and Drakes already ... Why would anyone fly anything else when nothing can speedtank missiles anymore?



Oh right, so you know what the new missile damage formula will be? Neutral

BiggestT
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2008.10.09 13:53:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Pan Crastus
No, people are overusing Falcons, Cerbs and Drakes already ... Why would anyone fly anything else when nothing can speedtank missiles anymore?



Hey dont look at us misisle boaters, im in no way happy. Now their going to nerf missiles which were fine before hand (t1+faction anyway) and i BET their going to overnef them Mad

Meridius Dex
Amarr
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.10.09 14:43:00 - [26]
 

Yes. In spades.

What some people are ignoring in this debate is that CCP not only wants to correct game-breaking ludicrous/invulnerability speeds but to also address gross imbalances in module use.

Thus the ingenious changes to web/scram, ushering in a new era where MWD/web/point is no longer the mandatory pvp loadout. This change not only makes scrams and ABs viable again, it also affects a myriad other modules such as remote sensor dampeners.

In one fell swoop, CCP can make this game a far more complex, strategic experience than perhaps it's ever been. So long as they do their best to balance missiles and such, I trust they are 100% on the right track.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.10.09 14:58:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 09/10/2008 14:58:53
Originally by: Meridius Dex
Yes. In spades.

What some people are ignoring in this debate is that CCP not only wants to correct game-breaking ludicrous/invulnerability speeds but to also address gross imbalances in module use.

Thus the ingenious changes to web/scram, ushering in a new era where MWD/web/point is no longer the mandatory pvp loadout. This change not only makes scrams and ABs viable again, it also affects a myriad other modules such as remote sensor dampeners.

In one fell swoop, CCP can make this game a far more complex, strategic experience than perhaps it's ever been. So long as they do their best to balance missiles and such, I trust they are 100% on the right track.


MWD is still 100% mandatory for gang combat.

The only way to change that is give ABs 200% or more boost and a large overheating bonus.

Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
Halinallen veroparatiisi
Inglorious Carebears
Posted - 2008.10.09 15:04:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Dr Sheepbringer on 09/10/2008 15:11:55
Originally by: d'hofren



sigh.

A) A ceptor will do no damage at all to a BS currently (Yes, and it should stay like that)
i) A BS can nos a inty to kill it's cap (True, but I don't consider them "weapons" in the same sense. They do a marvellous job though!)
ii) A BS can fit light drones to kill the inty ( Hmm...odd.. last time i had light drones chasing me...they didn't catch up...)
iii) A BS could even try smart bombing an inty (True, not sure it would actually kill it, before the inty pilots decides to get out of there before a second one comes)
B) The true issue is that the ships that should be fast i.e vaga, and the entire minmatar race are being nerfed in a sledgehammer approach to balancing the ships which shouldn't be stunningly fast. ( I personally think that this nerf is needed, but Minnis need a boost to raise them on the pedestal that they should be on. We need a nerf + minnieboost)



Minnies should absolutely be the fastest, but the wolf for example is a oddball. It should be among the fastest AF's and still that sucker can have the biggest plate! wtf?

Minnies should be the all speed no tank. Last time I checked ducktape and bubblegum doesn't work as armor.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.10.09 15:13:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 09/10/2008 15:13:12
Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer

Minnies should be the all speed no tank. Last time I checked ducktape and bubblegum doesn't work as armor.


Translation: Minmatar should suck horribly.

Response: Amarr should have capacitor requirement of lasers increased by 500-2000%, they can fire for too long with them lasers. Also, Caldari missiles need to get slowed down. 50m/s sounds just fine for torpedoes.

Zero Threat
Rebirth.
THE GOD SQUAD
Posted - 2008.10.09 15:16:00 - [30]
 

I dont know about you all, but there's alot of people wanting eve to be what eve was like 2-3 yars ago. No nanos, No nerfs, just stright old school pvp.

solo BSs with tanks, small gangs of 2-3 and actually stand a chance, and not just sit there get wasted by nano-ers.

What if the World of Eve had MWDs removed completely, and Had ABs with a massive bonus to speed on certain ships. And have only the fastest ships as ceptors like they should be.



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