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Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2008.10.05 16:11:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 05/10/2008 16:16:32



EVE Tactics - Kiting vs. Orbiting



I have to say this a dozen times a month so I finally decided to just create a thread on it. This thread is primarily concerned with two tactics commonly used by new people in low level missions and high sec ratting.

Your success in battle is as much due to the tactics you use as it is to your skill, your equipment or your bravery. All of them are important. Using the wrong tool for the job will get you killed just as fast as doing the job badly. Here's how to not do the job badly.

Orbiting is what you are taught in the Tutorial so Orbiting is what most people do. Unfortunately, Orbiting will get you killed if you use this tactic at the wrong time.

Orbiting is primarily a 1 v 1 tactic. Mostly it is good for engaging a larger, slower ship with bigger guns which can't track a small, fast ship that is changing it's angular velocity rapidly. Thus, Frigates can take out Battleships because they get in close, zip around the Battleship faster than it's big guns can track and eventually blow it up.

What gets new people killed - is that they try Orbiting a rat when he has half a dozen buddies. Yeah, they kill the rat they were orbiting but by the time they've done that - his friends are swarming all over them and if they can't warp out - they blow up. So - don't use this tactic against swarms of crappy little frigates.

Equipment used:

Small Fast Ship
Micro Warp Drive or Named AB
Small Powerful Short Range Weapons
An Ammunition type that will give you enough range to hit a close enemy while hurting them as hard as you can.

Application:

Approach your enemy as rapidly as possible to get through his fire. Here is where MWD's really shine over Afterburners. Approach him at a bit of an angle but closely enough that you are closing the range. At range, if you are coming straight at him, even those big, slow traversing guns may be able to hit you. Know the effective range of your weapons in combination with the ammunition you are using. If you put short range ammo in short range guns - you can end up being to far away to hit your enemy even though you are actually fairly close. Loading your guns with the type of ammo you want to use and then doing a show info on them with that ammo loaded - will tell you what the range and fall off data is for that weapon/ammo combination. Change the ammo and do another show info to see what another type of ammo in that weapon will do. Once you know how close you must get - set your Orbit range to something less than that. You also need to practice this to see how far out you swing at different speeds. Even if you have your range set to one thing, your velocity may carry you farther out. Warp Scramble your enemy first, then Web him. This will keep him from fleeing and make him an easy target to orbit and hit. Orbit him and hit him until he dies.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2008.10.05 16:12:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 05/10/2008 16:18:41


Kiting - is primarily a 1 v Many tactic. What you do is to get the enemy to chase you - then blow them up as they try to close. Here, your advantage comes from the fact that the game mostly puts short ranged, powerful weapons on it's rats. If you put big, long ranged weapons and a good afterburner on your ship - you should be able to control the range of the engagement. Controlling the range of the engagement will let you hurt them with your long range guns while they cannot hurt you with their short range guns - or more importantly - swarm you with their numbers.


Equipment used:

Small & Medium Sized ships
Micro Warp Drive or Named AB
Large Powerful Long Range Weapons
An Ammunition type that will give you enough range to hit a distant enemy that you are staying far enough away from him that he can't hit you.

Application:

Approach your enemy at an angle, don't go right at them. When you get their agro (they start targeting you) then turn away. What you want is to cut down any angular velocity they have by shooting right over your stern. The less those big turrets have to traverse the better. Also you might want to fit a Target Painter and/or Webifier if you are a larger ship. Training Motion Prediction will also help. Concentrate your fire on one guy at a time unless you can blow them up with one or two shots and kill them as they try to close with you. Carry two kinds of ammo. One that is long range but low damage - which is your primary type but another which is short ranged but high damage. Carry the short range ammo by default in case you don't have time to change ammo when a mission dumps you right into a mess. If you come into the mission area at long range you will have the time to change to your long range ammo. Adjust your speed to keep the enemy in the kill zone for your weapon. If you start missing them - you are to far away. If they are hitting you to much - you are to close. Looking at the show info for each combination of ammo with your weapons will give you a good idea what ranges to engage in but experience will give you a better feel for it. You have a speed control on the bottom center of your HUD. It's that moving blue line that shows how fast you are going. Click somewhere along that curved blue line and you will change your speed. You can also control your speed by simply turning your Afterburner or Micro Warp Drives on or off. AB's are probably better at this than MWD's as you really don't need as much speed as an MWD will get you and you'll have to constantly adjust it to keep from leaving the rats behind.

Qeng Nuwen
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.10.05 20:57:00 - [3]
 

People actually need to have ratting tactics explained to them?

Qeng Nuwen's Super Awesome Ratting Strategery:
1) enter belt
2) aktivat drone
3) profit

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2008.10.07 04:09:00 - [4]
 

Remember, when kiting "keep at range (current)" is your friend!

LeBelInconnu
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2008.10.07 04:18:00 - [5]
 

I've always been a close range fighter since I've only really been in small fights in pvp generally involving jumping on top of someone who's been bated or in pve flying rifters and then continuing on in the same vein.

Within the last week I switched a rupture to a glass cannon (artillery) ship with no tank at all. I use 4 artillery to hit 30-40k out and afterburner to dictate range with a double web and drones for anything that gets too close. Lows can be anything you like, I just threw on speed mods since I couldn't put on a mwd in missions. Since I tried this lvl 2 missions seem to be a cakewalk.

NaMorham Santorin
Caldari
Raptor Ops
Kamikaze Project
Posted - 2008.10.07 04:59:00 - [6]
 

Possibly an addition to the kiting section... but mainly for newer players

Look at the ranges, approach the group of enemies (predominately rats, since few PVPers will fall for this sort of thing) from a side or corner, do not drive into the middle and try and fly out with too much agro, it's much easier to find an outsider, one who is separated from the rest and a bit closer, approach them. You'll still trigger more than one agro, but it allows you to keep comming in and pick off the ships that let themselves get separated. Watch a nature doco on predators, it's the same thing. Find the isolated or weak target, separate them out and kill them.

Probably needs better english there, but...

I was flying a condor for a lot longer than was probably wise, simply because using the above tactics worked so well that most missions were so easy (most L1 and quite a few L2's)

Gartel Reiman
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2008.10.07 12:33:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn
Remember, when kiting "keep at range (current)" is your friend!

While that can be useful in some situations, I find that a better approach overall is to use "keep at range ([weapon optimal range])". Thus, if you had a 23km optimal range on your weapons, you would right click on the "keep at range" button and set the range to 23000 (or possibly 22500, to give you a bit of leeway before you coast beyond your weapons' optimal).

This way if you happen to be closer to enemies you don't need to manually fly away from them, wait until you're at optimal and say keep at current range; rather you can just hit the keep at [optimal] range button you've set up previously and this will do it all for you.

Bear in mind if you're going to use keep at range instead of flying manually, when the ship you're keeping range from is destroyed your ship will stop. So you either need to keep saying "keep at range" on each new target; or choose the target you'll destroy last in the group and keep at range on him; or just fly manually. Either way, just be aware that you will stop moving if you're keeping range on a target you then destroy, so don't be caught with your metaphorical pants down.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2008.10.07 14:35:00 - [8]
 

I tell people to just fly manually.

Besides the fact that you'll stop every time (which with really crappy rats is every few seconds) you also want to keep your weapons shooting over your stern to give you the least amount of turret turning. If your ship is turning aside in order to keep distance you'll increase the amount of traversing your turrets have to do, which the big long range guns aren't that good at, whereas if you just fly manually, adjusting only your speed, you'll keep them at your six.




Gartel Reiman
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2008.10.07 19:14:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
you also want to keep your weapons shooting over your stern to give you the least amount of turret turning. If your ship is turning aside in order to keep distance you'll increase the amount of traversing your turrets have to do, which the big long range guns aren't that good at, whereas if you just fly manually, adjusting only your speed, you'll keep them at your six.

Actually your ship will never "turn aside" to keep distance; the "keep at range" function will always have you (trying to) move either directly towards or away from your target. In fact, while I usually fly manually when kiting for the general convenience and control, if I'm hitting frigates with battleship turrets I will generally use Keep At Range on the frigs as this way the ship's computer moves directly away from the rats for zero transversal, while doing it manually it's very hard to get it more accurate than 10-15 degrees.

Your general point was right though; asides from long-range battleship class turrets firing at frigates, flying manually generally doesn't introduce any tracking problems and is much easier (just double-click away from the spawn, and adjust speed to taste).

Adamai
Gallente
Naval Protection Corp
True Intentions
Posted - 2008.10.09 13:00:00 - [10]
 

depends on skill points-

as a noob stay away from them and shoot with long range weapons

as a high s/p player stick on close range to reduce looting time and enjoy the finer poitns of eve like muzzel flashes impact explostions and the texture of your enemys hull, bit like looking in the whites of his eyes when you pull the trigger. except more enjoyable and you get rich afterwards.

p.s. have your hauler sat in a safe spot ready to go and in 0.0 make sure its in a pos sheild, then just swap between ships kill with one loot and salvage with the other, destroyers are a good to0l for salvageing 4 tractors and 4 slavagers micro warp drive engine overdrive and a partridge in a pear tree :)

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2008.10.09 21:33:00 - [11]
 

Gartel, thanks for the tip. I don't use that tactic so I may not remember it correctly but I'll make it a point to check that out and see. In any case, turning towards your attacker would actually be even worse as it would not only cause your ship to swerve, causing the turrets to adjust but first bring it to a near stop and then take it closer to the enemy before repeating the procedure to turn away again, all of which is likely to let the enemy approach more closely than desired.

What I do to keep the target on my stern, is to look at where the guns are shooting and if it isn't over the stern I adjust course. So, I may be doing this for each ship target as the previous one is destroyed. Mostly though if you've got the enemy anywhere within 45 degrees of your stern or so, you'll be getting hits. The fact that you aren't getting hits is an indication you need to change something.


As to Kiting being a newbs strategy - no. It's more like it's one strategy of many which is newb friendly.

Once you learn what all the rat ships are - and have a good feel for what your own ship can do - then you can change your tactics as the situation changes.

Sometimes the rats have chased you as far as they are going to and you have to turn about and chase THEM.

Other times, you can simply orbit some spot and kill the rats as they try to close on you, then pull away and kite them if to many get to close or if you're missing.

If you are fighting a mix of cruisers and frigates, you can kite the frigates away from the slower cruisers, kill them all, then reverse course and orbit the cruisers.

If the rats are all hanging about something - then you can conduct slashing attacks, moving in and taking out some of their number before moving off and letting your ship recover before making another attack. Here, you are heading slightly away from them but with them in that cone of fire off the bow going in, then pulling out and keeping them in that cone of fire off your stern.

Everything depends on everything else. The weapons and ship you have, the weapons and ship(s) the enemy has, as well as your Skill Points and Game Skills.

The difference between a new player and a vet - is that the vet has seen it all and knows instantly what to do when - and - when the situation has changed. Understanding when the situation has changed and - you need to be doing something else - is probably the most important thing to get a feel for.

If you're orbiting some mission object letting the crappy rats come to you so you're salvager will have less work to do - and then the rats spawn some more potent ships - you need to recognize that the situation has changed right away and know what to do about it.

If you have fitted Rail Guns - then one of your primary considerations is - to NOT get into a turning fight with some rat. Thus, while Kiting may not be what you need to do all the time - you need to be aware of when to use it, when to stop using it and when to start using it again.

With Game Experience - the new player transforming themselves into a Vet will pick that up.

For the brand new player - Kiting is a nice safe tactic that they can use to keep them from getting swarmed. If they use that as their basic tactic for level I missions they will be fine. As their experience increases they can judge when to change tactics and when not to. Skill Point increases are important but not as important as game smarts.

Besides, if you're skills are all that hot ... you aren't going to be leaving all that long a string of rats in the first place. Starting at one end of the string, your salvager can tractor in those in easiest reach as he heads for those that aren't and quickly work his way down the line. If there are some farther out ... then that's what the MWD's on the salvager are for.



Doc Iridium
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.10.11 12:05:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Doc Iridium on 11/10/2008 12:08:40
Just like with anything else in EVE, there is more to this than meets the eye, and different ways of using the game mechanics than what were described.

There are enemy NPC's that are long ranged. Minmatar NPC stabbers come to mind as a fine example of something a young player might encounter. They will try to maintain roughly a 35km orbit, if I recall correctly. If you are a bit slower than they are, it doesn't matter what you do, you will have little or no transverse velocity to them unless you manually adjust your flight path. If you are faster then them, you will be chasing them, and you will also have zero transverse velocity if you set yourself to keep at <x> distance. If you are a lot slower than them, well, no matter what you do, you aren't going to do much about transverse speeds.

If you set to orbit, and are faster then the enemy, you will have some transverse velocity to each other, making each of you a little harder to hit, especially at ranges extreme to NPC's but comfortably inside your range. Long range NPC ships generally have nothing like the range of a long range fitted player ship of the same class, provided you fit appropriately and have a few skills at a mediocre level.

Now here's where we use this information for something not discussed originally. Turret weapon fit Battleships. Many a new battleship pilot has rings run around him by frigates and cruisers before they figure out how to fight small ships and what skills they need to bone up on.

If you are fighting an npc ship faster than you by a large degree, you can reduce their transverse speed either by flying directly at them, or directly away from them. It elongates their orbit, making them alternately easier and then harder to hit depending on where they are in their orbit.

A player battleship with an afterburner is roughly as fast as most teir 1 npc ships cruising speeds, even a lot of frigates. Most T1 NCP's won't use their afterburners or MWD except when they are initially closing into range. Click on that afterburner, start chasing something, and blow it out of space in short order. Frigates and cruisers are going to hit you pretty much every time anyway, so the fact that you make yourself an easier target is no big deal.



Glenda Canete
Posted - 2008.10.20 13:35:00 - [13]
 

Ok as mentioned before I am new at the game, but what i currently do (and i dont have any hassle with level one missions is, I went to Jita bought 4 missile launchers used one of the shield boosters that i got in the tutorial. With this equiped I go usually into orbit at 15km to the closest enemy and than just keep on targeting one after another while making sure to keep moving by redoing orbiting... never had to warp out until now, have completed about 3 sets of level 1 story missions until now.

Psycho Nomad
Posted - 2009.01.13 12:15:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk
I tell people to just fly manually.

Besides the fact that you'll stop every time (which with really crappy rats is every few seconds) you also want to keep your weapons shooting over your stern to give you the least amount of turret turning. If your ship is turning aside in order to keep distance you'll increase the amount of traversing your turrets have to do, which the big long range guns aren't that good at, whereas if you just fly manually, adjusting only your speed, you'll keep them at your six.






i have to disagree with this, your actual ship turning doesn't effect angular velocity. Angular velocity is calculated via your ships and the targets transversal*radial devided by 2pi (its a measurement of the relative movement of both ships along a radial and transversal axis, measured in radians). your actual ship turning on its own central axis doesn't effect the game mechanics, or calculation of angular velocity in any way, the point from which the engine calculates your aspect of the equation is the central point of your ship (think of your signature radius as a sphere), turrets turning is NOT an accurate representation of what the physics engine is calculating. The GFX are programmed for the turrets to 'head track' the current target, just to look cool. Crossing a target in a stabber with a named 10mn AB hitting 800 m/s in a way that makes ur ship 'flipturn', (with 425mm ACs fit having a tracking speed of aprox 0.1056 rad/sec), ur angular vel will peak for a second or two at around 2.7000. you watch the turrets still 'head track' the target smoothly, the GFX of the ammo hitting the target spot on yet u get a msg saying you missed completely. its not a direct representation of whats going on in the engine.

Flying manually is allot harder, so its bad advice imo, i never fly manually. but i do agree you should never fly into a horde of Frigs. unless u can tank it of course. which by all right anyone should be able to, even in a frig, i mean i can tank lvl2s in a Rifter, and yes, orbiting, being swarmed. imo riding a tank and keeping your trans vel high while hovering under your angular vel peak is far more 'tactical' than keeping well outa harms way. but everyone to their own i guess.

Psycho Nomad
Posted - 2009.01.13 12:28:00 - [15]
 

infact... why are you even strategising mission running? lol... pve in eve sux, go jump in a BC n pew some real meat says i!

mountains and mole hills anyone?

Latrodanes
Independent Combat Support Services
Posted - 2009.01.13 12:59:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Psycho Nomad

Flying manually is allot harder, so its bad advice imo, i never fly manually. but i do agree you should never fly into a horde of Frigs. unless u can tank it of course. which by all right anyone should be able to, even in a frig, i mean i can tank lvl2s in a Rifter, and yes, orbiting, being swarmed. imo riding a tank and keeping your trans vel high while hovering under your angular vel peak is far more 'tactical' than keeping well outa harms way. but everyone to their own i guess.


Harder does not equate to bad, it just means you have to know the ship you are flying and the targets' capabilities. I fly Caldari rail boats and they are unforgiving in a turning battle at close range as noted above, hence kiting is my primary tactic on anything. I have also use multi-warping via bm's in missions to get the jump on rats that I have kited away from my primaries. Orbiting a fixed point would be counterproductive - for my ship, in a PvE environment.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2009.01.13 16:30:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk


EVE Tactics - Kiting vs. Orbiting

I have to say this a dozen times a month so I finally decided to just create a thread on it. This thread is primarily concerned with two tactics commonly used by new people in low level missions and high sec ratting.

...





Once you've gotten some experience you can adopt whatever tactics you want. You are no longer learning the game - you are using the experience you've gained to play the game as you see fit - and you probably have a lot better tank and a lot more fire power than some guy who isn't even in a tier III frigate yet.

But for NEW PLAYERS running Level I missions - Kiting is the best advice. It's simple to understand just as Orbiting is - but Orbiting is what is taught in the basic tutorial - so - many new players do what they've been taught - and get blown up because of it.

As to letting the computer fly your ship for you - if you want to do that - you go right ahead. But my advice to new players is still - to learn how to fly your ship. If you get somewhere down the road and learn when you can use some of the automated ship handling functions to your advantage - then go ahead and use them when you see fit - I do. But mostly - I fly my own ship and am much better off for it. The computer is stupid. It's going to do just what you told it to do - even if what you told it to do was NOT what you really meant. Until you understand just how the computer is going to act and when to stop using it - you're better off flying it yourself.


As to the relative motion between two ships it is still my understanding that this has an effect on their ability to hit each other. If you set yourself up so that there is no change in the angle between your two ships - i.e. shooting back over your stern - you are in the best position to accurately hit your target - and to be hit by it. If you are using long range guns so that the enemy can't hit you with the short range guns most rats carry in Level I missions - this tactic works very well.


Psycho Nomad
Posted - 2009.01.13 19:36:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Psycho Nomad on 13/01/2009 19:44:17

Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk

Once you've gotten some experience you can adopt whatever tactics you want. You are no longer learning the game - you are using the experience you've gained to play the game as you see fit - and you probably have a lot better tank and a lot more fire power than some guy who isn't even in a tier III frigate yet.

But for NEW PLAYERS running Level I missions - Kiting is the best advice. It's simple to understand just as Orbiting is - but Orbiting is what is taught in the basic tutorial - so - many new players do what they've been taught - and get blown up because of it.

As to letting the computer fly your ship for you - if you want to do that - you go right ahead. But my advice to new players is still - to learn how to fly your ship. If you get somewhere down the road and learn when you can use some of the automated ship handling functions to your advantage - then go ahead and use them when you see fit - I do. But mostly - I fly my own ship and am much better off for it. The computer is stupid. It's going to do just what you told it to do - even if what you told it to do was NOT what you really meant. Until you understand just how the computer is going to act and when to stop using it - you're better off flying it yourself.


As to the relative motion between two ships it is still my understanding that this has an effect on their ability to hit each other. If you set yourself up so that there is no change in the angle between your two ships - i.e. shooting back over your stern - you are in the best position to accurately hit your target - and to be hit by it. If you are using long range guns so that the enemy can't hit you with the short range guns most rats carry in Level I missions - this tactic works very well.




true true, thanks for pointing out to me who this is aimed at and your right in allot of respects. Something i don't understand is you saying things like 'stern' e.t.c... are you commenting on what part of your ship the turrets are aiming across, or are you talking about areas of space in relation to certain parts of your ship?, this is quite difficult for ppl to understand, and as your ship is always shifting and turning about, is it not easier to talk in terms of basic distances and the different representations of velocity, as what i got from your explanation is you pointing out that its apparently important which was your ship is actually facing, as it will effect how accurate the turrets are, which isn't true, I've obviously mistaken your explanation in some way, but that point is worth noting as its a guide.

Either way, i guess its a pretty 'safe' tactic to use while people learn the basics.

Now as for 'fun'... thats a different story :P
I still stand by my opinion its far more engaging and even rewarding in the long run to get in deep where its dangerous and learn how far you can push things, learn your ships 'true' capabilities so you develop reflexes essential to this kind of game. Yes your going to loose ships, but you find me one person who hasn't, its part of the literal game mechanics. I know your going to argue some point about new players not having enough to fund losses, but thats the point. a Simple rule applies. Put yourself in a situation that has allot weighing on it and you WILL focus soo much more, which will harden your piloting skills that much quicker, no one wants to loose ships. but the point is at some point ppl r gonna be fighting other ppl, and imo the quicker ppl put themselves in situations that actually develop 'true' reflexes rather than relying on the 'safety' of inbuilt mechanics the better because otherwise their robbing themselves of a far quicker road to contend-able skill and knowledge of areas much more important down the line.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2009.01.13 20:15:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Psycho Nomad
Something i don't understand is you saying things like 'stern' e.t.c... are you commenting on what part of your ship the turrets are aiming across, or are you talking about areas of space in relation to certain parts of your ship?


The stern is always the back of the ship. The idea is that turning your ship to keep your enemy directly behind you reduces traversal - which is the angular motion of your turrets - and thus increases your chance to hit the targets.

Kiting only works if you can be faster than your enemy though.

The Aquilonian
Posted - 2009.01.13 20:58:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: The Aquilonian on 13/01/2009 20:59:22
Thank you for all those valuable informations. With my main-char I have been playing eve for more then an year now. Most of my chars are skilled miners, that can also do ratting and salvaging, as well as missions. One of my strongest ship is a Harbinger, equipped with 5 Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, a tractorbeam and a salvager. I also have 10 Hobgoblin II abord.(I can launch and command a group of 5)
Thanks to my Microwave Crystals I can attack rats mostly from a distance of 30-40 Km and take them out before they can reach me.
I usually orbit them at 30 Km. On severals occasions, when I have to deal with packs of 4 or more rats some of them manage to sneak up close and I found out that my lasers have troubles hitting them at 6000 to 7000 m. I usually target-scramble them to prevent them from hitting me, but that only helps for a short while. So I use my MWD to get some distance between me and the attackes, but this dont seem to work. I also tried to redirect the drones to kill the rats that came too close for my lasers. Smartbombs will not do the job, since their range is to small. Lately I have have tried to switch crystals and use X-Ray or Multispectrum instead of the Microwave when the rats come too close.
What other suggestions to solve the problem do you have. How I can I prevent them from coming too close. If I use a webber I can of course
only slow down one of them.

Gartel Reiman
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2009.01.13 22:54:00 - [21]
 

A few thoughts on your thread, generally responding to various parts:

Originally by: The Aquilonian
One of my strongest ship is a Harbinger, equipped with 5 Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, a tractorbeam and a salvager. I also have 10 Hobgoblin II abord.(I can launch and command a group of 5)

The Harbinger has 7 turret hardpoints, and you are not using it to its full effectiveness if you are not fitting 7 guns. Depending on your fitting skills, you will probably need to drop down to Focused Medium Beams to do this, but you will get an increase not only in damage, but also in tracking, in exchange for a little loss of range.

As for the drones - conventionally the Harbi would carry a flight of 5 medium drones, though if you're having trouble with frigate-sized NPCs, then light drones will probably do the job better despite their lower damage. It's definitely a toss-up depending what situation you find yourself in. One thing I would definitely consider is switching half of those Hobgoblins to Warrior IIs - these have better speed and tracking and deal explosive damage. Since you should rarely lose drones to NPCs anyway, it's better to have a choice of drones to use rather than simply backups of the same type.

Quote:
Thanks to my Microwave Crystals I can attack rats mostly from a distance of 30-40 Km and take them out before they can reach me. I usually orbit them at 30 Km.

As stated by the whole point of this thread, orbiting them is unlikely to produce good results. It is an ineffective way to try and keep distance up and it will increase the transversal velocity your guns have to deal with (lowering their accuracy). As noted in this thread, manually fly away from the rats and pick them off as they approach you.

Quote:
On severals occasions, when I have to deal with packs of 4 or more rats some of them manage to sneak up close and I found out that my lasers have troubles hitting them at 6000 to 7000 m.

Yes, all of the long-range turrets will have tracking issues at short ranges, which is compounded against small targets. If you're going to fit for long range, you need to ensure you can keep at this range. Alternatively, you could choose to fit pulse lasers and fight up close.

Quote:
I usually target-scramble them to prevent them from hitting me, but that only helps for a short while.

By target-scramble, do you mean ECM modules? If so, they're not very good against NPCs, as you've discovered. In fact, neither are tracking disruptors, which would otherwise be an excellent way to reduce the incoming damage.

Quote:
So I use my MWD to get some distance between me and the attackes, but this dont seem to work.

I'm curious as to why this didn't work. Against frigates and destroyers, you should be able to destroy them in one or two volleys, well before they can get into range. Against cruisers and larger, your MWD should enable you to keep them from closing speed too quickly. Are you fitting the right size MWD (10MN)? Your speed with it activated should be around 1,000m/s - if it is, what exactly is closing range on you?

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I also tried to redirect the drones to kill the rats that came too close for my lasers.

Good idea.

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Smartbombs will not do the job, since their range is to small.

Smartbombs won't do the job in highsec, because they will got you CONCORDed, eventually. (Plus they're a ***** to fit)

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Lately I have have tried to switch crystals and use X-Ray or Multispectrum instead of the Microwave when the rats come too close.

This will not help with tracking per se, but it will increase your raw damage (at the expense of your excess range) so it's always a good idea.

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How I can I prevent them from coming too close.

You might just need to use more damage mods, and stop orbiting (fly away instead). You should be able to pop small ships before they get a chance to move much.

Latrodanes
Independent Combat Support Services
Posted - 2009.01.14 13:02:00 - [22]
 

An MWD will not work in a mission deadspace pocket. Fit an AB for mission work.


Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2009.01.14 15:46:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Psycho Nomad
Something i don't understand is you saying things like 'stern' e.t.c... are you commenting on what part of your ship the turrets are aiming across, or are you talking about areas of space in relation to certain parts of your ship?


The stern is always the back of the ship. The idea is that turning your ship to keep your enemy directly behind you reduces traversal - which is the angular motion of your turrets - and thus increases your chance to hit the targets.

Kiting only works if you can be faster than your enemy though.


Thanks for answering the question about the ships stern ...


Yes, Kiting only works if you can keep ahead of them - that's one of the reason's I've limited this particular bit of advice to Level I missions and new players. You can kite ships at other levels and at other times but by then you should know what you are doing.

If you are in a Level I mission - the rats rarely have or use MWD's and only sparingly use their AB's.

So - with long range guns, a good afterburner and maybe an Over Drive Injector - you can get and keep ahead of them.



As to Nomad's comment on mixing it up teaching you better how to fly your ship - there's nothing keeping someone who wants to do that from doing so. This advice is, again, aimed at people who are unable to complete a mission and are broadcasting in local for help - because they are doing what the tutorial told them to do - and orbiting.

If you want to be daring - go right ahead. If you want to make sure you complete the mission - kiting is the safer bet.

As people gain experience and learn other tactics they should apply those tactics to situations as they see fit.

But - for getting through missions where the enemy tactic is almost uniformly to swarm you with small, cheap ships using short range weapons - fighting them with long range guns, a good after burner and staying away from them while maintaining as good a tracking solution as possible is the best counter. Level I missions are almost all like that.

The Level I missions that aren't like that usually have a stasis tower that webs you. Now here - what you want to do - is to destroy that tower and tank the rats. These rats will not warp scramble you so if you start getting through your armor - warp out, repair, come back and go back to hitting that stasis tower. Once the weber is gone - go back to kiting the rats and it's all cake.


The Aquilonian
Posted - 2009.01.14 16:59:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: The Aquilonian on 14/01/2009 16:59:29
Originally by: Gartel Reiman
A few thoughts on your thread, generally responding to various parts:


Thank you very much for your detailed answers. You are better then many tutorials........Razz




 

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