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Miz Cenuij
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.03 06:00:00 - [1]
 


The sooner the elcetions come the better. Maybe then we can elect some pilots who will represent the opinions, needs and desires of the player base instead of abusing the position for thier own ends (Star Fraction and thier FW farse).


OFC the only way we will acieve this is if we secure a high player turnout during the voting process, so that people are not carried into the position on the backs of votes from thier alliances...

Abrazzar
Posted - 2008.10.03 06:39:00 - [2]
 

With the display of futility and the disorganized ineptitude of the last CSM, fewer people are going to vote for the next one. It'll be a farce, where a small vocal minority will get influence far exceeding its significance.

CCP should set a minimum required voter turnout and declare the CSM project dead if fewer people than this minimum go voting.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.10.03 07:26:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Jade Constantine on 03/10/2008 07:26:37

Originally by: Miz Cenuij

The sooner the elcetions come the better. Maybe then we can elect some pilots who will represent the opinions, needs and desires of the player base instead of abusing the position for thier own ends (Star Fraction and thier FW farse).


Originally by: Miz Cenuij
I pay for 3 accounts and havnt done anything other than train skills for 2 years.


Maybe you should run Miz and show us the benefits of all that skill training knowledge Cool

On a serious note though, not exactly sure what you think has been an abuse of spending time in the CSM to get FW sorted out properly and pushing improvement issues - but I'm sure you're going to tell us!

PS. This thread should be in Jita Park rather than assembly hall.

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2008.10.03 08:12:00 - [4]
 

So the CSM is biased because it wants to improve pre-nerfed things(FW is one of them, black ops is another example)?

You can say a lot about Jade and the issues he has raised(I quite like most of them, though I don't agree with everything). But obvious troll is obvious.

As for the speculation about the turn-out of the next CSM: Lets wait and see due November, shall we? I'm not saying that I disagree, but speculation is absolutely pointless.

Miz Cenuij
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.03 14:58:00 - [5]
 

yes I havnt played for 2 years, but I do still pay for those accounts. I pay for them in the hope that Eve will evolve into something I enjoy spending time with again.

This seems unlikley to happen though when the wishes of the player base are represented by a corrupt few with no desire to do anything other than promote thierf own causes.

Have you forgotten already the outrage that was vented on the forums when u defended a corps right to war dec a Corp within the militia? I suppose that had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that that was exactley what your Corp was doing at the time.

Incase you havnt noticed the CSM is seen as a joke by the vast majority of the player base and come November, a good voter turnout permiting the joke will end...

Scagga Laebetrovo
Failure Assured
Posted - 2008.10.03 15:35:00 - [6]
 

Is it just me or have the 'CSM delegate' labels been removed?

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2008.10.03 16:04:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
Is it just me or have the 'CSM delegate' labels been removed?

It's a bug. They found out that the tag had some non-intended side-effect, so it has to be patched before it will be put back on.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.10.03 16:08:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Miz Cenuij
yes I havnt played for 2 years, but I do still pay for those accounts. I pay for them in the hope that Eve will evolve into something I enjoy spending time with again.

This seems unlikley to happen though when the wishes of the player base are represented by a corrupt few with no desire to do anything other than promote thierf own causes.

Have you forgotten already the outrage that was vented on the forums when u defended a corps right to war dec a Corp within the militia? I suppose that had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that that was exactley what your Corp was doing at the time.

Incase you havnt noticed the CSM is seen as a joke by the vast majority of the player base and come November, a good voter turnout permiting the joke will end...


So what is your platform? HIC removal so you can again smartbomb Rancer with a Capital ship and play again?

Seeing as you have been a expert scammer I sincerely doubt you will think of the general game well being and not your personal interests.


Farrqua
Minmatar
In Igne Morim
Posted - 2008.10.03 18:14:00 - [9]
 

Miz holy ****. I was just talking about you and the other degenerates just the other day. Dr. Slice,Ginger, Tiller and the the other notables. We were talking about how much we miss the old scallywags. I would love to see a "Pirate" like your self in the CSM. It would give a nice twist to things.

But time will tell as far as the CSM. I think this is all going to be a wait and see kind of thing. If it is going to fail, it will be probably the second or third election. So the CSM has a bit of time to make things work. And you are right, majority of the population has no idea what is going on in the CSM nor really cares. And you can not force players to care or participate in it.

Oh and by the way the Nyx on the Hek gate was very well played. Much tears flowed and local convo's were great.

Miz Cenuij
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.04 00:47:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Miz Cenuij on 04/10/2008 00:56:40

What has the current CSM given us? NOTHING, even the latest dev blog about them is sketchy and gives not 1 single improvement that they have implemented.

The CSM was a body of people supposedly put in place to represent us and what have we actually got? A corrupt council, which is the laughing stock of the community.

Given a choice I would however vote for the total closure of this farce.

When polling day comes, make closure of the CSM one of the available votes, then we will actually be giving the community what it wants.


Elektrea
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.10.04 01:57:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Miz Cenuij
Edited by: Miz Cenuij on 04/10/2008 00:56:40

What has the current CSM given us? NOTHING, even the latest dev blog about them is sketchy and gives not 1 single improvement that they have implemented.


Do you know how many topics have been brought up to CCP? Lots, and its gonna take time for them to work on it. They just finished there new network code, and it took them about a years work.

Keep your damn pants on Laughing

Miz Cenuij
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.04 03:12:00 - [12]
 

Not 1 improvement waS listed!
Gonna blame a year of corruption and self promotion on waiting for new network upgrades?
LOL

Mutabae
Posted - 2008.10.04 03:51:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Miz Cenuij

The sooner the elcetions come the better. Maybe then we can elect some pilots who will represent the opinions, needs and desires of the player base instead of abusing the position for thier own ends (Star Fraction and thier FW farse).


OFC the only way we will acieve this is if we secure a high player turnout during the voting process, so that people are not carried into the position on the backs of votes from thier alliances...


Sorry, m8... your complaint is utterly ridiculous if you don't play.

Do you call your local representatives to complain about the state of the road outside of your house if you never leave it? No? Then why do think you are in any way qualified to comment on a game you don't actually play? Yes? Then you're an ass.

I'm thinking your an ass.

Miz Cenuij
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.04 04:25:00 - [14]
 

First off Im not ur mate.
Second if u cannot make ur point without name calling, u have no place in this discusion.
3rd I pay for my accounts thus I have the right to an opinion.
WTB a clue?

Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.10.04 04:42:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Draygo Korvan on 04/10/2008 04:43:10
This is a forum, you are not texting, you are also not trying to save time typing. Type out your words. Spellcheck doesn't hurt either. We all pay for our accounts, just because you pay for yours does not mean your opinion matters more than other people.

Messing with the timetable will not change the confidence factor of the CSM, it would only be more costly to CCP.

Miz Cenuij
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.04 07:04:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Draygo Korvan
Edited by: Draygo Korvan on 04/10/2008 04:43:10
This is a forum, you are not texting, you are also not trying to save time typing. Type out your words. Spellcheck doesn't hurt either. We all pay for our accounts, just because you pay for yours does not mean your opinion matters more than other people.

Messing with the timetable will not change the confidence factor of the CSM, it would only be more costly to CCP.


At no point have I stated that my opinion is more important than anyone else's.
So yes you are correct the forums is a place where people state thier opinions, as have I and those supporting this thread and the many others which have slated the current CSM members.


Further more FYI, I am in fact posting from my phone.

Your not very good at this debating lark are you?
WTB a clue? LOLTASTIC Very Happy


Yoana Enjinne
Posted - 2008.10.04 07:08:00 - [17]
 

Whilst I don't believe that moving the timetable for the elections will change anything, I do however agree that the current bunch of cretins needs removing. They have been an embaresment to the community and a disgrace. The minutes from their meetings show them to have been nothing more than bickering children on a power trip. Here is to hoping that the next bunch are more pro in their approach.

Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2008.10.04 07:28:00 - [18]
 

You can have a relevant opinion only if you are knowledgeable about the subject in which you are commenting on. Since you have not played EVE in 2 years, then you do not know WTF is going on so you should STFU.

Claiming that you know the "needs and desires of the player base" when you DON'T EVEN PLAY is a pretty moronic statement.

Ria Sotori
Caldari
Poor Old Ornery nOObs
Turdz Asshatz N Grieferz
Posted - 2008.10.04 08:11:00 - [19]
 

Please don't fool yourself folks. The CSM was a response to a tad of bad publicity and shouldn't be confused as a empowered entity of substance in the cogs of the CCP machine.

At best its a idea exchange CCP uses to funnel the inundation of both worthy and stupendously silly player game improvement suggestions so that they can devote less personnel to dealing with this facet of customer interaction.

Don't take it as a slam CCP, in fact it was a brilliant move from a marketing perspective, however utilizing a few more token suggested improvements would have made the program go over more with the masses.

Anyway, best of luck whoever wins, you have my sympathy and condolences. Razz

My only suggestion to whoever is elected is that they open up the transparency more to the masses that put them in office even if its just as silent observers at a online meeting or question and answer sessions on a reg basis and unedited transcripts in there entirety or something along those lines.

Miz Cenuij
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.04 13:38:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Miz Cenuij on 04/10/2008 13:41:40
It woudnt have been a bad idea to take the ten most called for player suggestions, held a vote on the forums to see which of those would be raised at the next CSM meeting. Many union branches use this method to raise transparency and ensure that they are a true representation of their members.

Ofc our merry lil band of corrupt council members would never have agreed to this.

Treelox
Posted - 2008.10.04 16:09:00 - [21]
 

How sad, 19 responses and not a single thumb up.....


Ok here is my thumb up, in support of Miz Cenuij proving to us once again what an immature little arse he is. Thanks for reminding us of that.

Miz Cenuij
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.04 16:33:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Treelox
How sad, 19 responses and not a single thumb up.....


Ok here is my thumb up, in support of Miz Cenuij proving to us once again what an immature little arse he is. Thanks for reminding us of that.


I havve made reasonable arguments and backed them up. You have only resulted to insults, who is immature?

LOL

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2008.10.04 16:57:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Drake Draconis on 04/10/2008 16:59:43
Originally by: Miz Cenuij
yes I havnt played for 2 years, but I do still pay for those accounts. I pay for them in the hope that Eve will evolve into something I enjoy spending time with again.

This seems unlikley to happen though when the wishes of the player base are represented by a corrupt few with no desire to do anything other than promote thierf own causes.

Have you forgotten already the outrage that was vented on the forums when u defended a corps right to war dec a Corp within the militia? I suppose that had nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that that was exactley what your Corp was doing at the time.

Incase you havnt noticed the CSM is seen as a joke by the vast majority of the player base and come November, a good voter turnout permiting the joke will end...


You've not played EVE for 2 years... and yet you come in here beating your war drum?

Who the #### do you think you are?

Seriously.... I don't care what amount of history you got.... you can't go around making assumptions and "speaking" for the community at large if you have not been around for the last 2 years.

How about you start playing EVE again for the next 2 years and THEN make your conclusions.

Some of us... I would assume... can speak for ourselves thank you very much.

Or Better yet.... Go back to playing WOW again.
Damn trolls.

Charney deGeoff
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.04 18:40:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Miz Cenuij
yes I havnt played for 2 years, but I do still pay for those accounts. I pay for them in the hope that Eve will evolve into something I enjoy spending time with again.


I realize the above is probably a troll. But just in case. Please, please tell me that isn't true. That is so sad and pathetic I have no words to describe it.

If it's true: Stop paying now, spend the money on therapy sessions instead or on something that will get your mind off this game. Get some real friends, go out side, get laid, whatever. Do not pay for EVE, don't post here - try to live your next 2 years without being bitter and angry. Man you're wasting your life.

Treelox
Posted - 2008.10.04 18:43:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Miz Cenuij
Originally by: Treelox
How sad, 19 responses and not a single thumb up.....


Ok here is my thumb up, in support of Miz Cenuij proving to us once again what an immature little arse he is. Thanks for reminding us of that.


I havve made reasonable arguments and backed them up. You have only resulted to insults, who is immature?

LOL


Immature enough to have given you your only thumbs up in this thread, thats how immature I am.

:P

Omber Zombie
Gallente
Frontier Technologies
Posted - 2008.10.04 18:58:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Miz Cenuij
Edited by: Miz Cenuij on 04/10/2008 13:41:40
It woudnt have been a bad idea to take the ten most called for player suggestions, held a vote on the forums to see which of those would be raised at the next CSM meeting. Many union branches use this method to raise transparency and ensure that they are a true representation of their members.

Ofc our merry lil band of corrupt council members would never have agreed to this.


umm, majority of the topics raised at csm meetings are topics from this forum... the rest are from the csm delegates (who by their own rules) posted those topics here before having them raised in a meeting. I'm not sure how that differs from what you're suggesting.

oh, and hi miz Very Happy

Captain Jack'Sparrow
Posted - 2008.10.04 20:18:00 - [27]
 

I agree with Miz.
Judging by the number of similar threads so do many people.
LOL @ the CSM alts raging in this thread.
Your time has come - OUT YOU GO!

Miz Cenuij
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.04 20:29:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Omber Zombie
Originally by: Miz Cenuij
Edited by: Miz Cenuij on 04/10/2008 13:41:40
It woudnt have been a bad idea to take the ten most called for player suggestions, held a vote on the forums to see which of those would be raised at the next CSM meeting. Many union branches use this method to raise transparency and ensure that they are a true representation of their members.

Ofc our merry lil band of corrupt council members would never have agreed to this.


umm, majority of the topics raised at csm meetings are topics from this forum... the rest are from the csm delegates (who by their own rules) posted those topics here before having them raised in a meeting. I'm not sure how that differs from what you're suggesting.

oh, and hi miz Very Happy


Hi Omber Very Happy


It's different in a couple of ways.
100% of topics raised at CSM meetings should come from the manner I proposed. This way it does not allow CSM members to push their own biased subjects and agendas.

Also prior to any meeting the player base would be aware of the agenda's 5 key points and as such could fairly expect feedback on said points afterwards, with clear action points and accountabilities for such.

As it stands right now, the CSM can select at will which of the hundreds of subjects on these forums that they wish to talk about and ignore those they do not. Invariably they have chosen subjects which further their own ends.

Further detailed feedback (as demonstrated above) has not been forthcoming from the amateurs currently within the CSM. All we receive are edited minutes of their meetings, and a dev blog which has failed to list so much as 1 acheivment the CSM has driven through.

BTW, im logging in more and more, so I'll see you in space Zombie Very Happy

Mara Devortex
Posted - 2008.10.04 21:49:00 - [29]
 

it is my hope that the majority of people who play this game understand the importance of having their voices heard..and how counterproductive it would be to allow it to be degraded into a forum version of alliance warfare..we've seen some very productive discussions and implementations even taking into account recent flame fests..which tells me that there is much more that can be done!!

Omber Zombie
Gallente
Frontier Technologies
Posted - 2008.10.05 01:01:00 - [30]
 

Ok..
Originally by: Miz Cenuij

Also prior to any meeting the player base would be aware of the agenda's 5 key points and as such could fairly expect feedback on said points afterwards, with clear action points and accountabilities for such.


an agenda is posted before the meeting, agenda items need to be submitted to the chair by Friday (for a Sunday meeting) so that this is possible. The agenda can be found in the forum below us. After meeting minutes are also posted (as for hosting of such, I'm still waiting for a CCP minutes page update) in the same thread. Unfortunately action points are hard to put in as the CSM doesn't know the action CCP will take until the topics are submitted to CCP and they get a response back. As many have pointed out, CSM is more a vetting process of what topics are raised with CCP on behalf of the players rather than a 'task force' of fixing things themselves. Asking CSM to 'action' things is pointless - they can't.

Quote:

As it stands right now, the CSM can select at will which of the hundreds of subjects on these forums that they wish to talk about and ignore those they do not. Invariably they have chosen subjects which further their own ends.


CSM can select their own topics to champion, but the public can champion their own topics too. If a topic gets enough 'thumbs up' votes, it's automatically added to the agenda as per the rules governing the CSM.

Quote:

Further detailed feedback (as demonstrated above) has not been forthcoming from the amateurs currently within the CSM. All we receive are edited minutes of their meetings, and a dev blog which has failed to list so much as 1 acheivment the CSM has driven through.


The edited minutes are there for the reason that if unedited, they would include a whole bunch of irrelevant side chatter (last meeting included an entire conversation about Nero electing a horse to be a senator in the Roman council). They also need to be checked for things that may be covered by an NDA, so as such, are edited by necessity rather than in any attempt to 'keep secrets'. As for the dev blog - a lot of CSM people think the same thing as you, a list of what has been put forward by them and inserted into the CCP production pipeline would have been extremely nice to show the player base, CCP thought it shouldn't. A way to do so was discussed fairly intensively at the CCP/CSM meeting last night/yesterday.


On a more general topic - I agree that the transparency and lack of communication of the CSM is a major issue, but it is slowly being resolved. I expect the next CSM session will run a lot more smoothly due to the efforts of the current CSM.


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