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blankseplocked PVP - Why dont we have a choice?
 
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Takarakal
Posted - 2008.09.27 12:08:00 - [1]
 

Why is it that only the best stuff in the game is avilable to people who PVP? if i want the best rats/ore i have to go into 0.0 and PVP for the teritory before i can get it? Even then i cant mine/rat in peace without somebody turning up to gank me.

Why the gripe? well dont get me wrong, i love MMO's and playing with other people, mining, exploring, missions and rating etc, but i dont see why i have to fight other people for it? I'll be 100% honest here im terrible at PVP, dont think iv ever won a single battle, and i really dont like it, so why should i be forced into it?

I know what your gonna say "you have level 4 & 5 missions, what are you complaining about?" well for starters i cant do level 5 missions because its all low sec and full of pirates who will only sniff me out with a scanner, whats the point? and secondly the ore in 0.5 and above is no where near as good as the 0.0 counterpart?

Lets look at what "non-PVP" players are limited too.....

Rats
=============
Level 4 missions are the best we can get....that sucks, maby find somthing a little better in a complex but hardly worth the time/effort compared to the ease of 0.0 rats


EVE Universe
=============
About 70% of the eve universe is 0.4 and under? that means the eve universe is no where near as big to us as it is to PVP players, were kind of prisioners to empire space

Ore
=============
Ore belts in empire space are pretty naff, sure i get the occasional belt appear in a level 4 missions but the best im ever gonna see is maby 1 or 2 roids of omber? hardly fair

Ships
=============
This is the big one, this is the one that really annoys me, there is not a chance in hell that i am ever gonna get to fly a capital ship unless i risk 0.4 and under? that limits non pvp players to battleships and command ships.....anything more and we have to go into pvp teritory to be able to use them. Thats just wrong.

========================
Conclusion / Suggestion
========================

The fact is that just because i dont like to PVP im punished on what i can do, where i can go and what i can fly. What gives me the right to moan about this? Iv been an eve player for 3 years, i seen patches and updates come and go but this issue has never been addressed. Im a team player, i like joining corps, playing together....i just dont like having to fight other people. I Pay my subscription and put as much time in like everybody else, so why should we be punished for not wanting to compete with other players?

Please do not get me wrong, eve is a fantastic game and i have no problem what so ever with people wanting to PVP, if its your kinda thing the go for it!! i dont wanna stop you guys enjouying the part of eve that you love the most. I Just think that us non PVP plays have been given a rough deal, there should be more content and better avilability to the non pvp player.

Before i get flammed or anything, i just wanna say that im not suggesting we take anything out of the current game, its more like adding stuff, the non pvp player is really limited, i just want some more content for us :)



shady trader
Posted - 2008.09.27 12:23:00 - [2]
 

As a certified carebear I understand their lack of intrest in combat PVP. However if you did not have to PVP to get access to the best items there would be seversl problems.

1) The reason that you find good sized ore belts in low sec and 0.0 is that there is risk so less people mine them. The corps and allaiances defend there terrority otherwise gangs of barges would just travel round striping whole systems like they do it high sec.

2) Without the constant battles in low sec and 0.0 the whole economy would be much simpler and less fun for non PVP for several reasons.
a) Significaently less demand for new ships as a result of people not lossing them to PVP.
b) Every one would have faction modules due to more people ratting for them and less being detroyed.
c) Mineral prices would plumit and there would be massively reduced demand for every items due to them not being detroyed.

3) it would also remove the need to be one big cluster as you would not be fighting for control of space since any one with the non PVP setting could just wounder in and take that they wanted.

As for the need for Cap ships, why would you need them if you are not going to war since the majority are designed for war (POS killing) or fleet support.

Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.09.27 12:29:00 - [3]
 

only PVP and rarity makes 0.0 resources good...

tritanium is not priced very hi because it comes in abundance and its cost are more related to man hours required to acquire it.

if mercoxit spawned in hi sec, it would be very cheap too

we have perfect market competition in hi sec, thus item price often equals the costs...
the fact that 0.0 resources are inaccessible to so many people makes the labour and effort spent in 0.0 worthwhile...

if every player receives 200 mill/week from nowhere, then all the prices will be inflating very rapidly, the scarcity of isk contributes to it value

value is a measure of attractiveness of one thing over another, which is in direct relation ship with item usefulness and accessibility. Your labour value is measured against other people's labour, depending how hard is this or that task and how many people can perform it.

but i hate PVP too, i hate when people want to steal from me... i only enjoy PVP in the way of challenge, when i am fit for PVP and meet an equal force, then the battle can be fun.

Hulk vs HAC pvp is not fun, i agree with you, but this is the easiest way for the HAC to rip you off isk... don't think that they enjoy the fight, they enjoy the stuff that they grab from your wreck. (I'd prefer to pay a ransom and prevent that HAC from destroying my ship)

Takarakal
Posted - 2008.09.27 12:41:00 - [4]
 

Thanks for the reply man, and i totally agree with most of it, its a fragile ecconomy and needs a good balance which i can understnd.

I Think what im asking for is more PVE focused content, capital ships are indeed mostly pvp focused, but where is the empire evquiliant? once i got into my first battleship it kinda seemed like a dead end, what we need is a capital ships desinged specifically for PVE and missions, it would be almost useless as a pvp ship but great for pve. The same way that capital ships can only be used in 0.4 and under, this ship would only be able to be used in 0.5 and up.....its the same thing only reversed, giving the non PVP player a chance to fly the big ships :)

Another example is trading, i do alot of empire trading and im kind stuck with Haulers/frieghters....and getting from one side of empire to the other (50-odd jumps) is a tedious task. Where as in a jump frighter, or carrier i would have the option to be able to jump drive a couple times to get to my destination. Sure its great for shipping stuff out to 0.0, but where is the empire/non pvp equvilant?

the point im trying to make is that empire should have its own share of unique items/ships which arnt avilable in 0.0, like 0.0 has stuff that not avilable to empire.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.09.27 14:18:00 - [5]
 


Quote:

Please do not get me wrong, eve is a fantastic game and i have no problem what so ever with people wanting to PVP, if its your kinda thing the go for it!! i dont wanna stop you guys enjouying the part of eve that you love the most. I Just think that us non PVP plays have been given a rough deal, there should be more content and better avilability to the non pvp player.



I think you miss the point of EVE's design.


EVE PVP isn't (supposed to be) "Hey, I feel like blowing **** up, i'm going to go roam around lowsec/0.0 until I find something". The purpose of EVE PVP is to fight over stuff that's valuable. If I want a fun, engaging PVP experience with awesome, fun fights...I'll play TF2. Or Freelancer. Or pretty much any other game.

EVE PVP is good because it means something because winners get valuable stuff. This is why 0.0 is fought over so much. Although level 4 missions partly eclipse 0.0, the high-end complexes, high-end ores and dyspro moons still make it worth fighting over to some extent. This is why there are people there.

Lowsec is basically empty because there ISN'T anything really worth fighting for in there.

As far as "Better content"... PVEing in general is an essential part of the game and I and pretty much all players (even the hardcore PVPers) want overhauls to make that part of the game better. However, that's not for hisec players. HISEC is not PVE ZONE where Lowsec/nullsec are PVPZONES. They're all PVE and PVP zones with varying levels of security.

That said, EVE is a PVP Game. As I showed above, the whole design of EVE's PVP focuses on the idea that people will fight each other so they can control important, valuable resources. If Hisec players are given access to this stuff then WTF is the point?

Captain Campion
Viziam
Posted - 2008.09.27 14:26:00 - [6]
 

Risk vs Reward.

shady trader
Posted - 2008.09.27 15:39:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Takarakal
Thanks for the reply man, and i totally agree with most of it, its a fragile ecconomy and needs a good balance which i can understnd.

I Think what im asking for is more PVE focused content, capital ships are indeed mostly pvp focused, but where is the empire evquiliant? once i got into my first battleship it kinda seemed like a dead end, what we need is a capital ships desinged specifically for PVE and missions, it would be almost useless as a pvp ship but great for pve. The same way that capital ships can only be used in 0.4 and under, this ship would only be able to be used in 0.5 and up.....its the same thing only reversed, giving the non PVP player a chance to fly the big ships :)

Another example is trading, i do alot of empire trading and im kind stuck with Haulers/frieghters....and getting from one side of empire to the other (50-odd jumps) is a tedious task. Where as in a jump frighter, or carrier i would have the option to be able to jump drive a couple times to get to my destination. Sure its great for shipping stuff out to 0.0, but where is the empire/non pvp equvilant?

the point im trying to make is that empire should have its own share of unique items/ships which arnt avilable in 0.0, like 0.0 has stuff that not avilable to empire.


CCP are talking about the next expantion for industry and it will include the Orca a hi sec mining support ship, as well as other PVE improvements. You also have the maurder class of battleships designed for missioning and not PVP.

Coaster DP
Posted - 2008.09.27 15:40:00 - [8]
 

Takarakal, what you are suggesting would destroy Risk Vs Reward. Forgive me but you are thinking about what is good for you and not what is good for Eve.

Abuta Beki
Posted - 2008.09.27 23:26:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Abuta Beki on 27/09/2008 23:28:27
"Why is it that only the best stuff in the game is avilable to people who PVP? if i want the best rats/ore i have to go into 0.0 and PVP for the teritory before i can get it? Even then i cant mine/rat in peace without somebody turning up to gank me."

Balance.

Almost everything important in EVE is balanced via effort. At least most of it. The more something is worth, or the more important something is, the more effort is needed to get it. Be it ISK, time, a combination of both, or more.

In 0.0, the effort to do anything is much higher than in Empire. Higher risk, more teamwork required, more time investment required and so on. The time effort factors in differently in 0.0 than in Empire, but it is still a control mechanism. You can get much less in less time in 0.0, but on the other hand you need to spend a lot of time without gain, in order to keep it, or in order to get access to it in the first place.

If all the good stuff was in the area where access is the easiest, it would unbalance the game. Empire supplies 0.0 with mass resources and cash, while 0.0 supplies Empire with strategic resources.

Not to mention, PVP players are almost as limited in their movement as carebears are. If you are in a corp/alliance that is active in 0.0, you are pretty much limited to it's sphere of power. If you leave it (even if you don't) you have the same risk of getting blown up. Nobody is completely free to go wherever he wants to go.

Strill
Posted - 2008.09.27 23:45:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Takarakal
Ships
=============
This is the big one, this is the one that really annoys me, there is not a chance in hell that i am ever gonna get to fly a capital ship unless i risk 0.4 and under? that limits non pvp players to battleships and command ships.....anything more and we have to go into pvp teritory to be able to use them. Thats just wrong.

What would you do with a capital ship if you got one?

murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2008.09.28 00:27:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Takarakal
Thanks for the reply man, and i totally agree with most of it, its a fragile ecconomy and needs a good balance which i can understnd.

I Think what im asking for is more PVE focused content, capital ships are indeed mostly pvp focused, but where is the empire evquiliant? once i got into my first battleship it kinda seemed like a dead end, what we need is a capital ships desinged specifically for PVE and missions, it would be almost useless as a pvp ship but great for pve. The same way that capital ships can only be used in 0.4 and under, this ship would only be able to be used in 0.5 and up.....its the same thing only reversed, giving the non PVP player a chance to fly the big ships :)

Another example is trading, i do alot of empire trading and im kind stuck with Haulers/frieghters....and getting from one side of empire to the other (50-odd jumps) is a tedious task. Where as in a jump frighter, or carrier i would have the option to be able to jump drive a couple times to get to my destination. Sure its great for shipping stuff out to 0.0, but where is the empire/non pvp equvilant?

the point im trying to make is that empire should have its own share of unique items/ships which arnt avilable in 0.0, like 0.0 has stuff that not avilable to empire.


There is plenty of high end PVE content. PVE in low sec or 0.0 is strictly that- PVE. The mistake you're making is that you're considering that content to be PVP, which it's not.

Clearly, if you have no interest in Eve beyond high sec, then this isn't the game for you. Particularly if you want all the fun toys. High sec is horribly unbalanced (in the favor of carebears) as it is. It's the reason so much stuff is totally worthless (look at the price drop of Navy Megas as an example: from 1.5 billion to under 280 million ISK inside of a year).

If any content that is currently exclusive to lowsec/0.0 were to be allowed into high sec, it would become worthless overnight due to all the farming carebears. PVPers are the only thing keeping Eve's economy functional. All carebears do is poison it a little at a time.

Ferbin Holse
Posted - 2008.09.28 00:37:00 - [12]
 

This is not the game you are looking for.

whoyoulookingat
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2008.09.28 01:11:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: whoyoulookingat on 28/09/2008 01:15:01
Originally by: Ferbin Holse
This is not the game you are looking for.


Agreed.

The main reason there is a high sec is to allow new players to get to grips with the game whilst giving limited resources to try things out.

Look at low sec as the 1st steps to learning PvP with the knowledge that Concord isn't there to help you out (just gate guns & station guns)

0.0 is the final step.. No rules, anything goes Twisted Evil

Yes, there are wars which makes all of space like 0.0 (combat wise)

And look at PVE as a way of learning how a ship handles and what the modules do.. Again, this is "supposed" to prepare you for when you actually PvP. What you'll find is those mods that kept you alive npc'ing don't work against a real player (that's the learning curve for ya Razz )

The problem is, too many people join the game & then refuse to leave empire! They then complain that all the good stuff is in lowsec/0.0 Rolling Eyes

This is primarily a PVP game with a few other professions thrown in to keep us all busy & is also unique in the way that when you lose a ship, it HURTS!!

RISK v REWARD... If you only want to play in Empire then you're missing out on the other 80% of what Eve has to offer.

The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
Posted - 2008.09.28 19:59:00 - [14]
 

I can understand your points, since im heard them form some of my old buddys that still stick to empire a lot of times.

Actualy if you go to 0.4 and deeper EvE realy shows what it is all about and mutch more fun. The better Ore and Rats are a kind of reward for the people that take the risks, also there to recover from looses more quickly leading to a diffrent kind of gameplay. Capitals are also based for PVP(exept the roqual) and there is no real need for them in Empire.

Quote:
I'll be 100% honest here im terrible at PVP, dont think iv ever won a single battle, and i really dont like it, so why should i be forced into it?


Look for someone that can teach you the ropes of PVP. It is not that hard and it is fun. Even if you are not the offesive player that gooes after targets, if you know how to defend yourself and how to escape traps Low Sec and 0.0 are not that bad or difficult.

People should not stick to empire forever, you will loose ships and/or pods but you have to give it a chance before you say no. All the ships in the Hangar, all the ISK in the Wallet and all the Items can be replaced in the end. Playing with and against people makes EvE this special, one thing that you will never see in Empire...

Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2008.09.28 20:48:00 - [15]
 

PvP was never meant to be "fun" in eve. And it shouldn't be. Stupid arena like pvp in other mmo's kind of disgust me. Not to mention grinding level 4's for isk (compare it to smashing some cheap ass goblins in fantasy games for gold)

Furthermore there shouldn't be even one "non-pvp" player in this game, because it's not what this all is about imho. It's about mining, building, trading, stealing, blowing stuff up and like that. It's pretty much pvp all around. Or should be at least.

When game comes to point where we have pve characters in hi sec creating magical isk from no where to pvp characters in low sec/0.0 we're on wrong track I think...

Pittsburgh2989
Drusus Tech Enterprises
Sylph Alliance
Posted - 2008.09.28 21:21:00 - [16]
 

This is the biggest carebear whine post I have ever read...

Like was said before - risk vs reward...you do not deserve the same reward for staying in noob corp in empire space and never going into a 0.5

The cost of living in 0.0 and lowsec is much higher because you lose so much more, so you have to be rewarded more

Nadir Zenith
Posted - 2008.09.28 22:20:00 - [17]
 

Sounds like a troll to me, but what the hell - I'll bite...

As others have said, Risk vs Rewards....you want the 0.0 pay offs? Come and get them.

You could start a carebear industrial alliance, recruit every mofo who can find a corp office and hit the application button and blob the hell out of some space with Drakes of Doom. If you're charismatic enough to get 100 guys in a fleet, and can get an FC that can handle fleet aligns and warps, youre a 0.0 superpower...

Grab a few stations whereever BoB isnt, plant a few dysprosium towers down and siphon the income into your own personal wallet [ whilst the grunts make do with ratting/mining...suckers] for as long as you can. Dont worry about defence. Keep the grunts distracted with a forum to argue amongst themselves in [ this is also good for lulz when leaks occur during the inevitable dramacaust] If a semi-competent group of players come along and actually challenge you, get the *******s to fight to the last ibis so you have time to get your assets back out to Empire [ much the richer of course having asset stripped the alliance].

0.0 really isnt that hard tbh. But the rewards are for alliance leadership/insiders, not for the grunts whose most common 0.0 experience is black screens and 15 minute module lag to defend the wallets of their alliance leaders.

But as someone else asked, WTF would you do with a capital ship if you got one given your reluctance to PvP? Rat or mine in it? Chribbas got the Veldnought angle sorted. Dont need imitators.


Xzar Fyrarr
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2008.09.28 23:07:00 - [18]
 

FAIL
EPIC FAIL

0.0 Rats are NOT "Ease"
I run lvl 4's AND rat in 0.0 from time to time, and lvl 4's are MUCH more worth it in the time factor , for me at least, since I'm a solo player 90% of the time.
Lvl 4 rats/lp/reward pays out to almost the same amount of money ratting 0.0 disregarding officer/faction/complexes, not to mention it is IN HIGH SEC .


Eve Universe
Hmmm... this is a pvp game...
70% of it, as you said, is a place where pvp goes on without concord... The other 30% is highsec...
So lets see here, more pvp space... in a pvp game!
THE HORROR!
You are NOT prisoners to empire space.
You MAKE yourself prisoners.
I roam lowsec sometime once in a blue moon looking for faction rat spawns.
I avoid other pvp ships at that moment.
I am not engaging directly in pvp, ship v ship, from that- no.

Ore-
The ore is exactly as it should be.
Go to lowsec and the ore is visible in vast quantities with not many people mining them.
Stay in highsec and you won't find the same some of the time, at least fromw hat I've seen.
Espicially with macro miners and the like.
Ships-
You want cap ships?
NO ONE is stopping you from getting a carrier.
Get a carrier go to lowsec- stay docked.
There, problem solved.
Capships are NOT solo ships in any shape and/or form.
And, lol at "that limits non pvp players to battleships and commandships."
Do we play the same game here?
You want a capship, get it. Get friends to help you protect it if you decide to undock it.
You are NOT limited to the ships you can fly.
Your ignorance of the game is however limiting you.


Conclusion.
There is already a lot... of pve content in this game...
As there is pvp content.

That is all, I fail :D

Sir Substance
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2008.09.29 01:24:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Captain Campion
Risk vs Reward.


i lol'd that's the funniest thing ive seen posted all morning.


 

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