open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Star system player limit deployed to Tranquility
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13]

Author Topic

HankMurphy
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
Posted - 2008.09.22 06:38:00 - [361]
 

Originally by: Aprudena Gist
making something like this is just screaming exploit me you should probably turn it off for all of 0.0


this tbh ^^

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2008.09.22 07:25:00 - [362]
 

Originally by: baltec1
Nobody has made a fleet of 800 and plonked it in a system for days on end. This tactic cant be defended against right now but equaly nobody is willing to try it.

Its just too many people in one place for too long, if the node doesnt give in first then it will be the pilots sick of lag and no action.

As I said the largest fight I have taken part in had just under 600 in a system. The lag was so bad that I had to wait 20 min for a command to go through. An hour after the fight started the node failed and seemed to take half of Venal with it. 800 would be just unplayable.

It doesn't NEED to be for days on end. It just needs to be long enough for the POS to be recharged.

There's also a great difference between systems with many people but no fights, and systems with many people AND fights.

A system with 800 people, mostly inactive, is actually fairly playable as long as nobody is fighting. It isn't until shots are fired that things go to hell.

Remember that people who'd go for this tactic does not WANT to fight. They don't care that the system is lagged, unplayable or unable to sustain a fight (if they did they wouldn't use the tactic). All they're interested in is saving their precious POS/Sov (or killing the opponents without risk).

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2008.09.22 07:30:00 - [363]
 

If this is supposed to solve a problem for Jita, why implement it for the entire galaxy?

if(currentStarSystem==STARSYSTEMID_JITA)
{
<your funky cap stuff>
}

Seriously, this should (hopefully) be within your programming capabilities.....

Science Lord
Posted - 2008.09.22 07:33:00 - [364]
 

I Just wish they would change it so Jita Space is One system(Node) and Docking is a Diffrent system(Node).
Then just make local there like a Mini Constalation.
Not a Sure fire fix im sure But it should help.

Nightborder
Gallente
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.09.22 07:56:00 - [365]
 

Imagine this....enemy fleet jump in system...bunch of them...After that defence fleet can`t even enter that system...game over

Severe Admin
Blind Industries
Posted - 2008.09.22 08:41:00 - [366]
 

^^ ccp doesnt care about you they only care about making sure jita functions smoothly.

Saietor Blackgreen
Armored Saints
Posted - 2008.09.22 08:57:00 - [367]
 

Edited by: Saietor Blackgreen on 22/09/2008 08:57:10
Guys, relax already. The cap is so high it wont affect alliance wars anyway. Even half of the cap number of people located in a system without dedicated node will have hard time moving around, let alone engaging.

Where was the last time you saw 800 local in one system in alliance war? Or 600 for that matter?

Judging from Jita local, cap should be at 800 at least.

Ris Dnalor
Minmatar
Fleet of Doom
Posted - 2008.09.22 09:22:00 - [368]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie
Edited by: Gnulpie on 21/09/2008 21:51:09
Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 21/09/2008 21:11:20
Originally by: Gnulpie
..stuff..

Oh the irony!
Wasn't it you that posted about the system cap that never existed when BoB's cap yards were assaulted?


A system cap never existed? Interesting ...

Maybe you can explain then the dev blog by Oveur from 30. Aug 2006 where he stated that there is a cap of "...700 people in a single solar system. We haven't hit that yet..." and that was 5 months before the attack on the shipyard in F-T which happened at end of March 2007.

So you say such a cap never existed and that Oveur talked crap in that devblog?


Funny ... not. Take your **** elsewhere!


this

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2008.09.22 09:30:00 - [369]
 

Edited by: Misanth on 22/09/2008 09:35:56
Originally by: Saietor Blackgreen
Edited by: Saietor Blackgreen on 22/09/2008 08:57:10
Guys, relax already. The cap is so high it wont affect alliance wars anyway. Even half of the cap number of people located in a system without dedicated node will have hard time moving around, let alone engaging.

Where was the last time you saw 800 local in one system in alliance war? Or 600 for that matter?

Judging from Jita local, cap should be at 800 at least.


It's not about the numbers. The problem here is that CCP is using a 'solution' that isn't a solution. It's telling players they (CCP) are not in control of the situation. Remember this game is designed so that players form the universe? Having a limit like this is bad from two reasons.

What number it is doesn't matter, it could've been 1200, or 1600, would still be as bad. But to answer your question; it is more common than you think. It wasn't that many weeks ago that I was in Deklein fighting with NC against BoB. I remember three days in a row having NC with two filled (250ppl) fleets, while BoB was fielding 3-400 on the other side + more people moving around in the vicinity - not to mention those that wasn't in the fleet. That's already 1k+ people if you count 3 adjacent systems.

I wasn't in the INSRG + Tri vs NC + friends war, but I've heard reports of 1k+ people in one system at that point. The Delve invasion, remember numbers then? Also, I remember a situation slightly over a year ago when I was in a joint op fleet (multi-alliance, temp nap) where we tried to bait some alliance to kill one or a few motherships. At that op we had some 6-700 people in fleet + some minor groups that scouted/locked down gates. I remember very well that we had 400 guys jumping through a gate to a system that had a few hundred people and the lag on jumpin was approximately 1-2 minutes. In similar situations in Deklein vs BoB we had 15-25mins.

I'm just putting the numbers above to show that those numbers you presented already are in use, and would very well go up if the server would allow for it. But as I said, numbers won't matter.

What really makes me wonder is why the server has gotten worse over the years. 1-2 years ago you could jump into system with 400 people and would have a minute or two delay on jumpin. Today you should be happy if it takes 15 mins. What has improved tho, is that nowadays the node very seldom crashes. It's just alot more laggy.

Point being; CCP is not under control. That's what makes this "emergency solution" look scary. They're panicing and taking desperate measures. What's next?

baltec1
Posted - 2008.09.22 10:03:00 - [370]
 

Originally by: Kerfira

It doesn't NEED to be for days on end. It just needs to be long enough for the POS to be recharged.

There's also a great difference between systems with many people but no fights, and systems with many people AND fights.

A system with 800 people, mostly inactive, is actually fairly playable as long as nobody is fighting. It isn't until shots are fired that things go to hell.

Remember that people who'd go for this tactic does not WANT to fight. They don't care that the system is lagged, unplayable or unable to sustain a fight (if they did they wouldn't use the tactic). All they're interested in is saving their precious POS/Sov (or killing the opponents without risk).


Again I ask. Whats the difference between now and this cap?

800 is an impossibly large number of people to take on. Hell 500 is impossible to take on withough massive lag and mass disconnects.

Blobs of this scale cannot be made on the spot. If a POS needs defending then you are going to be very hard pushed to get such a large amount of people as to reach the system cap.

Equaly trying to get a fleet of 800 into a system for an attack on the enemy POS network is not going to work. It would take hours to move all the ships into the system, and since alot start to see lag with 200 in its going to be an up hill fight to keep people from disconnecting.

Then we have the issue with trying to get a cyno jammer down which would mean heavy losses due to the slow reaction times because of the lag.

Plus this tactic would take weeks to organise and would leave your own space open to attack. Its just not worth it.

It would be much more efficient to split that blob into 8 fleets of 100 and hit 8 different targets which are just about lag free.

Ethidium Bromide
Amarr
ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.09.22 10:18:00 - [371]
 

i'm sure it was said like 205 times allready but lol you do know that this really adds a whole new layer of lameness to 0.0 warfareQuestion

BobsHobNuts
Posted - 2008.09.22 10:21:00 - [372]
 

Edited by: BobsHobNuts on 22/09/2008 10:21:47
anyways in most cases, if an alliance is going to be attackin someone in those high numbers, they can contact ccp and tell them theres going to be a Massive War, and ccp will either give that few systems more attention or adjust the cap.. ppl are just giving out for the sake of giving out.. get off CCP's case....

Jita is a problem, and if a temp cap will help them find a better fix..better to help with a problem then not to help at all..

Twoside
Gallente
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2008.09.22 10:28:00 - [373]
 

Originally by: Hey You
It is a nasty surprise to log back in and see 15+ people you just shot down on gate again happily shooting you all over again.


So you were killed by the fleet you just killed?
That's the only remotely funny thing to quote in this whole cluster**** :(

And regarding the dead horse F-T fight, why can't we agree that both parties were denied one hell of a fight and leave it at that?

Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
Posted - 2008.09.22 10:29:00 - [374]
 

Originally by: Ethen Bejorn
A much better solution would be to add an afk timer (like WoW and every other decent MMOG) that kicks you out of the game when you have not done anything for 5 or 10 minutes. 75% of the people in Jita are afk sitting in a station.


Of course if you're sitting AFK at a station you're using incredibly close to 0 CPU cycles. The majority of the lag is generated by people moving modules to their hangar / ships / buying and selling / docking/undocking and even down the list a bit, flying around. I bet Jita could handle 20,000 people if they were just docked afk. One person entering local at that point would probably experience no lag.

That said, the population limit is a horrible idea, a better one would be to increase market taxes or some way of making people 'want' to go to busier systems less. (the office price increases were a good start. Artificial caps are always bad, especially when you get lag when there are <100 people in some systems, and none at all in some that have over 700. It just depends on what people are doing.

Twoside
Gallente
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2008.09.22 10:29:00 - [375]
 

Originally by: Kay Han

Can we exploit petition any entity in the game which is abusing this? *cough* NC *Cough*



You sir, are an epic idiot.

Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
Posted - 2008.09.22 10:32:00 - [376]
 

Originally by: Ris Dnalor
Originally by: Gnulpie
Edited by: Gnulpie on 21/09/2008 21:51:09
Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 21/09/2008 21:11:20
Originally by: Gnulpie
..stuff..

Oh the irony!
Wasn't it you that posted about the system cap that never existed when BoB's cap yards were assaulted?


A system cap never existed? Interesting ...

Maybe you can explain then the dev blog by Oveur from 30. Aug 2006 where he stated that there is a cap of "...700 people in a single solar system. We haven't hit that yet..." and that was 5 months before the attack on the shipyard in F-T which happened at end of March 2007.

So you say such a cap never existed and that Oveur talked crap in that devblog?


Funny ... not. Take your **** elsewhere!


this


Oveur also said that we'd get player deployed Gate guns in the next few weeks, in 2004. Veteran players don't listen to Oveur.

I was in Jita the other week with 750 people, and it was playable. The next day, 400 and it wasn't. Been generally avoiding it on weekends for a long time now.

KristineKochanski
Posted - 2008.09.22 10:37:00 - [377]
 

Originally by: BobsHobNuts
Edited by: BobsHobNuts on 22/09/2008 10:21:47
anyways in most cases, if an alliance is going to be attackin someone in those high numbers, they can contact ccp and tell them theres going to be a Massive War, and ccp will either give that few systems more attention or adjust the cap.. ppl are just giving out for the sake of giving out.. get off CCP's case....

Jita is a problem, and if a temp cap will help them find a better fix..better to help with a problem then not to help at all..


If JITA is the problem why break 0.0 to fix it. Some cities have congestion problems their solution is to allow odd numbered cars in one day even the next. Why not do the same with Jita Mon Wed Fri A-L accounts Tues Thurs Sat M-Z accounts then change the days each month to be fair. Sunday JITA is closed.

Oh and build the damn bypass - move JITA into a Cul de Sac.

BobsHobNuts
Posted - 2008.09.22 10:39:00 - [378]
 

yes jita should be moved, but i dont think they can move it that easy other wise they most likely would of done it already.
but ya i agree, Jita should be a end system, and that will help on passing traffic abit.
as for a bypass, if if they make one would autopilot use it?

Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
Posted - 2008.09.22 10:44:00 - [379]
 

Originally by: KristineKochanski
Oh and build the damn bypass - move JITA into a Cul de Sac.


Bypass may work, moving Jita to a dead end system won't work. They already did this once with Yulai. It was the market hub before Jita, they changed the gates to make it less attractive and people simply moved to Jita instead. If you put Jita in a dead end system then Jita will become better, but some other system will be chosen by players as the new hub, and people will simply move the problem there.

WaiKin Beldar
Tormentum Insomniae
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.09.22 11:10:00 - [380]
 

You can lie to a single person for ever.
Or... you can lie a single time for everybody.
But you can not lie for ever to everybody.

Start fixing this FOR ONCE AT ALL or you will loose people very soon in a big way.
Player community is well beyond the "fed up line" with the policy of "instead of preventing more people to join an almost unplayable online game we will make it worst for the ones already playing it"

Saietor Blackgreen
Armored Saints
Posted - 2008.09.22 11:15:00 - [381]
 

Originally by: Misanth
Point being; CCP is not under control. That's what makes this "emergency solution" look scary. They're panicing and taking desperate measures. What's next?


Why not? They are solving major problem hitting hundreds and thousends of people NOW in trade hub by creating POTENTIAL limits ty HYPOTHETICALLY possible situation in 0.0 warfare. Looks like a good move to me.

Especially if they're working on some other way to solve this, or at least reformulate the limit so that it's not a hard cap but some more flexible mechanic.

And even if they dont - well good for EvE! - at last a mechanic preventing superblobs! OK, defenders now CAN get a big advantage by overpopulating the system, that doesnt sound good. But FFS, sneak on them! Hit their other systems, ransake their moon mining, intercept their logistics with wardecs, murder their mining and hunting operations. At least there is an incentive (although very crappy and unintended one) that puts some very general and hard-to-reach limit on the blob.

And again, there is NO WAY you will have an OPERATION reaching 800 people per system. People will alg out, node will die, FCs wont jump in to avoid lag. Those events you mentioned (delve, branch) were just like that.

My main point is - while it is a concern, and interesting topic to pay attention to it, WHY ALL THE RABBLE?! Oh, wait...

Saietor Blackgreen
Armored Saints
Posted - 2008.09.22 11:16:00 - [382]
 

Originally by: WaiKin Beldar
Player community is well beyond the "fed up line" with the policy of "instead of preventing more people to join an almost unplayable online game we will make it worst for the ones already playing it"


Are you the Community? Why people on these forums feel they can easily speak for everyone? Do you have a document signed by 50 000 players? Are you payed for exciting the mob?

WaiKin Beldar
Tormentum Insomniae
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.09.22 11:18:00 - [383]
 

Originally by: Saietor Blackgreen
Originally by: WaiKin Beldar
Player community is well beyond the "fed up line" with the policy of "instead of preventing more people to join an almost unplayable online game we will make it worst for the ones already playing it"


Are you the Community? Why people on these forums feel they can easily speak for everyone? Do you have a document signed by 50 000 players? Are you payed for exciting the mob?


Are you playing this game...ever?

AltBier
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.09.22 11:35:00 - [384]
 

Originally by: Vikarion
You'll need about 1,000 pilots, I believe, since that seems to be the cap. That's hard for any alliance to muster. And to keep them there continuously? Haha.

What if some alliance is a group of players who all know each other from somewhere else, say another forum, and that external group has thousands of members, who could all create trial accounts for two weeks of fun ...

Bohoba
Caldari
Burning Technologies
Atlas.
Posted - 2008.09.22 11:52:00 - [385]
 

Edited by: Bohoba on 22/09/2008 12:23:18
OMG hurry NC head to nol with 1000 shuttle pilots will be all you need then just sit there wait for pos's to run out of fule then bingo system falls without a shot fired lol

nice one ccp


Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari
Indicium Technologies
Hephaestus Forge Alliance
Posted - 2008.09.22 11:58:00 - [386]
 

So if I make a fleet with [people limit] players in it. Jump them all into target system and start munching on POS...

That means the defense fleet can't enter system amirite?

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2008.09.22 12:31:00 - [387]
 

Edited by: CCP Explorer on 22/09/2008 12:32:24

In DT today the temporary cap was removed from all systems except Jita. See news here. The temporary cap, which now only applies to Jita, was also raised significantly.

CCP Navigator


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2008.09.22 12:32:00 - [388]
 

Thread locked as a new up to date thread on the issue is here.

Saietor Blackgreen
Armored Saints
Posted - 2008.09.22 12:37:00 - [389]
 

Originally by: WaiKin Beldar
Are you the Community? Why people on these forums feel they can easily speak for everyone? Do you have a document signed by 50 000 players? Are you payed for exciting the mob?


Are you playing this game...ever?


Yes, as a matter of fact I do. And have amazing fun in small gangs PvP and 100vs100 fleet engagements. Dont get me wrong, I also experience lag, very heavy one from time to time. I lose shipse because of it either. And I get stuck in Jita sometimes. And I know people are frustrated about that.

But I yet to find A SINGLE PERSON who said "I AM QUITTING BECAUSE OF LAG FOREVER", let alone did so. So saying "community is well beyond fed up line" and rabble about everyone leaving the game and new people not coming makes one A LIAR. Which is bad.

EvE is still a great, amazing game. It has issues. Most of them come from the fact that its such an amazing game, lots of people want to play. The fact that so many people rabble here is actually reassuring - it indicates how many people actually enjoy the game.

The only thing that makes me a sad panda is the attitude to people who created it and try to keep it alive and developing, at the same time making money. SAY THANK YOU.


Pages: first : previous : ... 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13]

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only