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kessah
Blood Blind
Posted - 2008.09.19 19:35:00 - [1]
 

Posting for reference to FP5.

1x Lar II
2x 1600mm tungsten
2x EANM II
1x DCU II

1x Heavy II injector
2x Web / ECCM / or 2nd med injector for fighting other neut ships. Pretty liberal use of these slots.
1x Warp Disruptor.
1x Afterburner.

6x 650 II w/RF EMP
2x Heavy Unstable Neuts

2x Ogre
2x Hammerheads
1x Hobgoblin.

Pretty average and definitely works best with a slave set of some kind, and if you can get the Implants to dmg output, needs every pinch.

Another setup ive been working on (and baring in mind im using all the best implants for turret damage/tracking etc and active tanking, along with all lvl 5 skills)

2x Lar II
2x EANM II
1x DCU II
1x Gyro II

Or if you want more tank less gank:

2x Lar II
3x Actives II
1x DCU II

1x Quad Lif MWD *Or After burner II*
1x Heavy II injector
1x Medium Electrochem injector
1x Web II / Fleeting.
1x Warp Disruptor II

6x Dual 425 II w/RF EMP
2x Heavy Unstable Neuts.

1x Nanobot Accel
2x Aux Pumps *Or with the AB above stick on a Projectile burst Aerator Rig for extra dps*

Drones: same as the above setup.

The dps isnt too bad topping out at 815 dps *879 with hail* *979 with Overload + Hail* thats with the dmg rig and dmg mod. Ive yet to test it properly, but its not unlike what i used to use Pre-Revelations.

Its dual heavy neuts really help with nano ships and more importantly Command ships. Depending on what combat your most involved with each setup has its pro's and con's.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2008.09.19 19:45:00 - [2]
 

Just an FYI, but I've tried the second setup with Hail L (overloaded) and it was very underwhelming. IMO, the penalties on Hail is just too great to overcome on the battleship level.

That said, I endorse these fits and have used both. I also occasionally use a TD instead of a second web/ECCM/Cap booster.

-Liang

kessah
Blood Blind
Posted - 2008.09.19 20:40:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Just an FYI, but I've tried the second setup with Hail L (overloaded) and it was very underwhelming. IMO, the penalties on Hail is just too great to overcome on the battleship level.

That said, I endorse these fits and have used both. I also occasionally use a TD instead of a second web/ECCM/Cap booster.

-Liang


I know its set backs, Hail is though really gimped imho, but it has a niche roll.

Ambrosious Martin
Anarchist Movment
Posted - 2008.09.19 20:58:00 - [4]
 

I endorse the first setup. The mids tho I go ABII, web, WDII, 2x RSD with scan res scripts. Or maybe 1 RSD and one ECM burst. I also use ECM drones. I know it all sems unconventional, but you would be amazed.

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2008.09.19 21:15:00 - [5]
 

Sorry guys, I'm just not feeling the underwhelming tank and underwhelming DPS coupled with lean-out-and-kiss-me range. They're not bad fits for a tempest....

It's just not a good ship. Neutral

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.09.19 21:29:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/09/2008 21:32:37
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/09/2008 21:32:09
Originally by: kessah

Another setup ive been working on (and baring in mind im using all the best implants for turret damage/tracking etc and active tanking, along with all lvl 5 skills)

2x Lar II
2x EANM II
1x DCU II
1x Gyro II

Or if you want more tank less gank:

2x Lar II
3x Actives II
1x DCU II

1x Quad Lif MWD *Or After burner II*
1x Heavy II injector
1x Medium Electrochem injector
1x Web II / Fleeting.
1x Warp Disruptor II

6x Dual 425 II w/RF EMP
2x Heavy Unstable Neuts.

1x Nanobot Accel
2x Aux Pumps *Or with the AB above stick on a Projectile burst Aerator Rig for extra dps*

Drones: same as the above setup.



I've used that (2 EANMS+DC+Gyro) - I didn't like it very much, but it is admittedly solid for tanking sentries (and works OK for gatecamping in general as long as you don't sit on the actual gate), or for insta-nuking a cruiser-sized ship's capacitor. Never used the Tempest for any serious fighting, however, that's the domain of the Typhoon if you ask me.

Mind you, it burns cap boosters fast when running dual LARs - you do not, in fact, get to perma-run them on a heavy cap booster (with max skills. I do assume my 3% rep speed implant might've worsened the issue however.). Running the neuts periodically + running the LARs is a quick route to cap death, even with overheated injector pumping cap in.

Also, the armour amount is quite low, so start running those reps as soon as your shields are low, because you don't have a lot of buffer for waiting on those reps to hit.

Other then that, it's a solid setup for gatecamping/ganks, I just don't like the ship much overall, and people will happily primary you knowing you've got a not so impressive tank.

Btw, I just put my active tanked tempest (with those rigs) on contracts, hopefully someone buys it and takes it off me Very Happy

Edit: I find RF EMP L to be quite superior to Hail L on this level, it's very hard to overcome the tracking issues (with just your own movement), and the cap penalities really strain a cap-starved dual rep setup.

Also, generally ran with ECCM in the final mid.

Rajere
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2008.09.19 21:50:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Rajere on 19/09/2008 21:51:21
Quote:
I know its set backs, Hail is though really gimped imho, but it has a niche roll.
Uh Hail is the best t2 close range ammo, it is the rest which are gimped and only fill in niche roles. Since faction ammo was added Hail is the only t2 close range ammo that's really used at all. Compare Void and Conflag to Fed Navy Antimatter and Amarr navy Multi and you'll see what I mean.

True, this is only because the base ammo (EMP) for large projectiles is gimped, and therefore the faction version (Rep Fleet EMP) is also gimped. Like all things relating to Large Projectiles, it doesn't scale correctly and it's missing damage. I think large projectiles were just pre-nerfed on the assumption that being capless was a benefit. On paper they probably were "too good" and there was even a time where projectiles were fitted to amarr hulls creating ships with the most native capacitors using weapons which needed no cap. Now that the game isn't about active tanking and the NOS mechanics have been changed, projectiles need to have those prenerf's removed before you can even consider trying to fix them.

Minor squibble really, stop dissing my Hail :p

whisk
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.09.19 22:01:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: whisk on 19/09/2008 22:04:50


just for you:

6xd650II(RF EMP/barrage), 2x500w
100mn mwd II, wdII, webII, heavy ele cap, SBII/multi ecm
LARII, 2x1600rolled, 1xeanm, 1xDCUII, 1xgyroII
3xtrimark
5warriors, 5med ecm


Gavin Darklighter
Ministry of War
Posted - 2008.09.19 22:37:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Rajere

Minor squibble really, stop dissing my Hail :p


Hail really is the worst T2 short range ammo. Its the only one that has 50% on optimal AND falloff, making it the shortest range ammo in the game. Neutrons with void have an optimal+falloff higher than Hail. If you ask me they should at least remove the optimal penalty on Hail L and just make it -50% falloff (kinda like conflag halves optimal but leaves falloff alone). At least then hail would do more damage than barrage at the edge of web range.

kessah
Blood Blind
Posted - 2008.09.19 22:56:00 - [10]
 

The Neuts are a get out of jail free card. Anyone that blindly spams f1-f8 doesn't know what there doing imho... You use the f7+f8 key when its the right time on the right ship. So ofc it's not cap stable if you think its running level 4 missions.

Also your experiences with Hail are probably of sub battleship classes. Hail on Battleships are imho not preferable to RF EMP, then again generally its on the maelstrom / Pest using it so i find the dmg variance -trackin penalty a much more attractive choice.

I personally choose the Active tank, not the dual eanm / dmg mod. I find DPS isn't as prevalent as a solid tank, but there are those that argue, some see the implants/skills an added bonus to there already fitting dmg mod ships. I personally see them as a supplement to an even better tank.

Finally 1 tracking disruptor does bugger all, why? becus i know that, that silly one / two sliding bar on my overview during combat is either a dampener or a disruptor and I've always hit my target. BTW before its said I've been in combat enough to know it is not a dampener/painter all the time. Tracking disruptor's on anything but a curse / pilgrim are as useless as ECM bursts in 1's and 2's.

Then again hit the target with the nuets and tracking isnt an issue no more.

My opinion ofc.

NightmareX
Nomads
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2008.09.20 00:11:00 - [11]
 

kessah, if you want to do SOME damage in your Tempest with the first setup you posted, you should change out one 1600mm plate for a Gyrostab.

Like earlier today on sisi, i managed to to kill an Abaddon before he killed me.

But that's not the thing here, the thing here is that the Abaddon first used ages to take my armor down, and secondly, i had taken 103k damage on him when i killed him, and believe me, that takes time to go through in a Tempest.

And i had one Gyrostab II fitted on my Tempest there.

But then, i think you know my setup though.

Zarnak Wulf
Posted - 2008.09.20 00:13:00 - [12]
 

Short Range Thoughts:
High:
800mm II x 6
500w Infectious System Malfunction x 2
Medium:
MWD II
Heavy Cap Booster II
Large shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
EM Field II
Low:
Gyro II x 3
Tracking Enhancer II x 2
DC II
Rigs:
Field Extender I x 3
Key points - Does 880+ DPS. 80.3k EHP. 1300m/s speed. Lackluster tank but decent elsewhere.

Long Range Thoughts:
High:
1400mm II x 6
Named Large Shield Transporter
Drone Control Link
Med:
Sensor Booster II x 2 w/ Range script
Tracking Computer II x 3 w/ Optimal Range Script
Low:
Reactor Control II
Gyro II x 3
Ladar Backup Array II x 2
Rigs:
Ionic Field(targeting range)
Projectile Loci Rigs x 2 (Optimal Range)
Key points: 198km optimal range w/ Tremor. 215km lock range. 39.1 sensor strength.

kessah
Blood Blind
Posted - 2008.09.20 00:53:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: NightmareX
kessah, if you want to do SOME damage in your Tempest with the first setup you posted, you should change out one 1600mm plate for a Gyrostab.

Like earlier today on sisi, i managed to to kill an Abaddon before he killed me.

But that's not the thing here, the thing here is that the Abaddon first used ages to take my armor down, and secondly, i had taken 103k damage on him when i killed him, and believe me, that takes time to go through in a Tempest.

And i had one Gyrostab II fitted on my Tempest there.

But then, i think you know my setup though.


pest isnt about dmg. Its about versatility and with a slave set the 1600mm is more valuable than a dmg mod. Far to much is lost for less than 100 dps extra.

Fact is the tempest's real value lies in its abundance of med slots.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.09.20 02:15:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 20/09/2008 02:16:36
Originally by: kessah
The Neuts are a get out of jail free card. Anyone that blindly spams f1-f8 doesn't know what there doing imho... You use the f7+f8 key when its the right time on the right ship. So ofc it's not cap stable if you think its running level 4 missions.



Well, yeah, but you do tend to use them a fair bit on cruiser hulls - which does eat up your cap, and you can't run dual reps for all that long even with a injector - particularly if you heat them. Your experience might differ, but as I said, it's cap is a bit fragile.

Originally by: kessah

Also your experiences with Hail are probably of sub battleship classes. Hail on Battleships are imho not preferable to RF EMP, then again generally its on the maelstrom / Pest using it so i find the dmg variance -trackin penalty a much more attractive choice.



Mmmm, Hail is a big dissapointment on BS really. They don't track that well to begin with, and gimping range and tracking quite heavily is just a bad choice.

Originally by: kessah

I personally choose the Active tank, not the dual eanm / dmg mod. I find DPS isn't as prevalent as a solid tank, but there are those that argue, some see the implants/skills an added bonus to there already fitting dmg mod ships. I personally see them as a supplement to an even better tank.



Well, yeah, but damage output is really extremely low without even a single gyrostab. It is a matter of preference, but when we look at percentage values, the first gyrostab gives you a ton - while the tri-hardened tank isn't that much better then dual EANMs in percentages to warrant the DPS loss.

What are you going to use the ship for, anyway?

Edit: you're using trimarks on the first setup, I assume?

kessah
Blood Blind
Posted - 2008.09.20 02:32:00 - [15]
 

The setups are just references to the video i made *link in sig* ive been posting setup for years. Just being open to what i use in combat.

While i agree with most everything you said except for this.
Originally by: Cpt Branko
the tri-hardened tank isn't that much better then dual EANMs in percentages to warrant the DPS loss.


I feel you've forgotten overloading and how important heat plays in Eve pvp today. Overloading 3 armour hardeners to the effect of 3x Core X-type's actives, for even just 53 seconds of overload before burnt out, could mean life or death in a lot of circumstances.

The Tempest is a tough ship to get good in, but it still has a place. Let alone a niche one. The poor dps is made up for in versatility, crippling tanks and turrets through neuts and using the med slots creatively.

Again though this thread wasnt much for debate, im just posting my setup for video reference so im able to link people that eve mail in game with questions about how to fit like i do.


slothe
Caldari
Jian Products Engineering Group
Atlas.
Posted - 2008.09.20 09:17:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: slothe on 20/09/2008 09:18:23
1x Lar II
1x1600mm tungsten
2x EANM II
1x DCU II
1x gyro

1x cap booster
1x Web /
1x ECCM ships. Pretty liberal use of these slots.
1x Warp Disruptor.
1x mwd

6x 650 II w/RF EMP
2x Heavy Unstable Neuts

trimarks

5x med ecm drones

for me

adriaans
Amarr
Ankaa.
Nair Al-Zaurak
Posted - 2008.09.20 10:14:00 - [17]
 

how come people are saying so much bad about hail when conflag works just fine, they both got the same penalties to tracking....:S

Rajere
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2008.09.20 10:40:00 - [18]
 

Hail is fine, It's large projectiles which are the problem. If large autocannons scaled appropriately they'd have better optimal, tracking, and falloff, so optimal, falloff, and tracking penalties for hail wouldn't short change them as much as they do now. Then again, if EMP scaled correctly it would be doing more damage, so you'd almost always choose RF EMP over Hail anyway, and hail would be gimpy and used on only certain niche conditions.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.09.20 13:05:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: adriaans
how come people are saying so much bad about hail when conflag works just fine, they both got the same penalties to tracking....:S


Anyone using Conflag over AN MF is just being cheap (and silly) - besides, Hail gets more range penalities over RF EMP then Conflag does over AN MF

Kaileen Starsong
Amarr
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.09.20 14:03:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: adriaans
how come people are saying so much bad about hail when conflag works just fine, they both got the same penalties to tracking....:S


Because you have to be close to your target to make Hail worthwhile. The target going at the exactly the same linear speed has quite different angular speeds at, say, 1km and 8km. Hence, conflag's penalty is much less harsh in reality.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2008.09.20 16:38:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: adriaans
how come people are saying so much bad about hail when conflag works just fine, they both got the same penalties to tracking....:S


Because Hail is 2.4+10 to Conflag's 15+10. Compare to 2.4+20 to 15+10.

Then, because you have a huge tracking penalty and must engage within the close reaches of web range, your tracking is disproportionately worse than conflag's.

-Liang

whoyoulookingat
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2008.09.20 16:56:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: adriaans
how come people are saying so much bad about hail when conflag works just fine, they both got the same penalties to tracking....:S


Because Hail is 2.4+10 to Conflag's 15+10. Compare to 2.4+20 to 15+10.

Then, because you have a huge tracking penalty and must engage within the close reaches of web range, your tracking is disproportionately worse than conflag's.

-Liang


IMO, hail is just not worth it with the present game mechanics.. too many penalties & unless ur making a beeline for ur target (suicide mode), your guns just miss waay too much!! And then your in web range!! Bye bye ship Confused

The only real use for a pest nowadays is as a sniper fit but then, why do that when other BS can do it much better Sad

Best bit of advice is stick to Minny cruiser / BC class or under for PvP and train another race for BS pew pew.. that's til they eventually sort out the issues with our BS.

Tnam
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2008.09.22 12:20:00 - [23]
 

I think people look too hard for what's wrong with the Minmatar BS's a lot of times and in so quite often fail to see some of the strengths. In particular, EFT doesn't always pan out with what happens in real fights, you see tempests (and other mini BS's) high up on killmails in damage when they are fighting along side other ships that do more potential damage.

With this particular setup that was posted, I think it's a bit of a wierd setup tbqh. If you look to the strengths of the Tempest which are:
- high number of meds
- ability to use falloff to get quite a big hit range.
- relative high speed compared to other race BS's and relatively low mass.
- presence of 2 utility high slots

In summary, I think:
- mix of 2 types of armor tanking is just sponging up low slots and preventing the effective use of a mwd. Drop either the rep or both the plates and go for a dual rep setup instead (armor repping this ship is actually only effective when you don't face a lot of damage). free 1 low for gyrostab which helps damage a lot.
- Afterburner, right now pre-nerf isn't as good as a mwd, on a ship flown well with good awareness of tracking is a key module in modifying transversal and getting better hits and allows you to use range advantage vs high damage short range BS's let hyp/mega.
- 2 webs is overkill in a gang and a sign of trouble in solo, I agree its quite a nice feeling to charge right at somethign and slow it to nothing then pummel it with short range ammo but in general use if you get into web range you are more likely to be the victim :) tracking disruptor is a very good mod in its place, especially 1 vs. 1.
- not sure about the 2 neuts and cap drain, I usually would have a remote armor rep in one of those slots. Its down to taste.

If your general plan is to fly around in a slow tank-o-doom type of ship then you are looking at the wrong ship here.. that's an abbadon.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.09.22 12:22:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 22/09/2008 12:24:36
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 22/09/2008 12:23:38
Originally by: Tnam
I think people look too hard for what's wrong with the Minmatar BS's a lot of times and in so quite often fail to see some of the strengths. In particular, EFT doesn't always pan out with what happens in real fights, you see tempests (and other mini BS's) high up on killmails in damage when they are fighting along side other ships that do more potential damage.



Actually, what I see is Armageddons doing just that. I see Torp + AC Typhoons doing quite well, too (provided you're shooting at BS in or close to webrange).

The reason why I'm training for Amarr BS is precisely because I fly together with Amarr BS pilots in gangs where they really, really rock.

Pippan
Gallente
Jupiter Force
Posted - 2008.09.22 13:21:00 - [25]
 

[Tempest, Solo]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II
Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I, Tracking Speed Disruption
Balmer Series Targeting Inhibitor I, Tracking Speed Disruption

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo

Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I
Trimark Armor Pump I

Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x1
Ogre I x2


Not a fan of an active repping tempest because of the very limited lowslots and the fact that your guns are doomed with poor dps.

Fake edit: swap the mwd for a AB and make use of the falloff/TDs with a 13km webber.

kessah
Blood Blind
Posted - 2008.09.22 17:19:00 - [26]
 

In low sec under sentries u need a rep- or your constantly docking up, but its fine for 0.0 i suppose.


Svetlanna
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2008.09.22 21:21:00 - [27]
 

Close range: Typhoon > Tempest
Long range: Maelstrom > Tempest

The tempest use to own big time and since several nerfs, is now worst than any other ship of its class.

Avoid this ship for now and until CCP gives it back the proper power it deserves.

kessah
Blood Blind
Posted - 2008.10.11 16:26:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Svetlanna
Close range: Typhoon > Tempest
Long range: Maelstrom > Tempest

The tempest use to own big time and since several nerfs, is now worst than any other ship of its class.

Avoid this ship for now and until CCP gives it back the proper power it deserves.


Its that thinking that makes the Tempest good YARRRR!! I hope i meet you and others with this type of thinking more with my pest in combat.


 

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