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Amarylyn
Gallente
Amarylyn's Original Game of No-Limit
Posted - 2008.09.17 19:21:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Amarylyn on 17/10/2008 14:08:50

Amarylyn's Original Game of No-Limit


Hello everyone. I run a betting game called "No-Limit" in my channel "No-Limit". "No-Limit" is a high-stakes game of risk where the one who risks the most wins the most.

So far I have payed out over 22,000,000,000 isk.

I can also usually be found advertising/playing the game in Jita local.

Here are the simple rules:

1.) To play you must bet (pay the dealer) the minimum bet specified each round.

2.) Each round last until no one bets for about one minute afterwhich all the bets from that round are totaled. The new pot total becomes the minimum bet for the next round.

3.) Players that played in the last round may make the minimum bet to play, all others must pay twice minimum bet.

4.) The pot continues to grow until:
A: No one bets in a round OR
B: Only one person bets in a round.

TO WIN:
When only one player bets in a round that player wins: (Pot - Rake) + Prize.

House Wins: If no one makes at least the minimum bet in any round the House wins the pot.

Rake: 9%

Watch Action Online:
You can watch the bets live on my EVE cam at: http://www.justin.tv/amarylyn

You can also see me calculate the pots and pay the winners there too!

I hope you will stop by and watch a game or play in it yourself!

Gambling can be addictive, don't bet what you can't afford to loose. No-limit only has one winner per game, everyone else looses. If you play you may loose your isk.

Supplemental rules:
1.) If you bet less than the minimum you will be informed and given a chance to meet minimum prior to a refund being issued for that bet.

2.) The maximum time between bets is about a minute, don't get your stopwatches out.

3.) If for some reason the game is disrupted (server shutdown, I get gagged... (happened)) I will refund all bets to the participants.

4.) Every time a person bets everyone else gets 1 minute to respond. If there is no response after a bet for about a minute the round ends. This makes waiting till the last second to get your bet in pointless and potentially dangerous especially if the servers are lagging.

*For a limited time certain bets or conditions will earn you a share of the profit from each game played. Profits paid out daily. Shares are not for sale.
For complete financial reports see: http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=879952

To Receive Active Game Notices:
You can receive an eve mail when when there is an active game that meets your minimum pot requirement.

The lists are:

[10 million] Amarylyn's Game Notice
[100 million] Amarylyn's Game Notice
[1 billion] Amarylyn's Game Notice

Nav System
Posted - 2008.09.17 19:26:00 - [2]
 

Legit, at first i thought it was a scam due to her age, but i made 150 mill in 2 nights. A++

Gorf Neerg
Posted - 2008.09.17 19:41:00 - [3]
 

This is really cool. I won 22mil today! A+++ Very Happy

Julius Rigel
Sub-warp Racing Venture
Posted - 2008.09.17 20:57:00 - [4]
 

This is an intriguing concept! Both as a game and as an evolved version of the rage-quit-double-isk scam! I applaud your ingenuity in either case! Very Happy

Perhaps I will drop by and watch a few rounds some time.

Tax Master
Posted - 2008.09.17 23:14:00 - [5]
 

Sounds like the Tax Man! Only the rich get richer!

Sly Raver
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.09.18 13:25:00 - [6]
 

Whats to stop you bidding with an alt and winning everytime. Im not saying you are but seems like a major hole right there.

Amarylyn
Gallente
Amarylyn's Original Game of No-Limit
Posted - 2008.09.18 14:55:00 - [7]
 

Well it's a risk, any time you bet isk you are risking loosing it. I don't suppose it's possible to prove I'm not using alts to win my own games (well CCP probably could but I doubt they care about doing so).

So.... I suggest watching my games for a while using my live EVE cam until your satisfied that other people besides me are winning and that everything is legit.

One person can only do so much at a time.


Emporia Tzard
Posted - 2008.09.18 16:06:00 - [8]
 

I watched the video feed for a while before getting involved with this game and it all looked pretty legit. Even though there were some idiots in local calling foul (without any evidence) I had a go. Only won about 4.5Mil out of it but it seems legit none the less. I reckon I would have potentially won a lot more if the idiots in local hadn't kept scaring new players off.

When the guy makes at least 9% from the rake I can't see why he'd want to cheat it and lose any reputation he has built up. I think he'd make a lot more by keeping it all fair and legit. But you know the people in Jita local, they think everything they don't understand is a scam.

Red5x5
Caldari
Posted - 2008.09.18 16:32:00 - [9]
 

53m won not a scam :] ty!

Red5x5
Caldari
Posted - 2008.09.18 16:56:00 - [10]
 

won 47 m again! :P

Red5x5
Caldari
Posted - 2008.09.18 17:37:00 - [11]
 

wooo! 689,233,998.18 isk won!!! lol...if the other person bet again i would of lost ;(

Nav System
Posted - 2008.09.18 21:59:00 - [12]
 

I lost over 500 mill, but you win some you lose some! Laughing

A+++++

Captain Columbus
Posted - 2008.09.18 22:00:00 - [13]
 

This game is quality.

Completly scam free (you can view his wallet on webcam so you know you arent being cheated :)) and the stakes are high, I saw someone win 2.2bil tonight (1.5bil of that was already his but thats beside the point).

Is a very fun and risky game to play :)

iviviv
Posted - 2008.09.18 22:24:00 - [14]
 

Yep , Started to playin in it 2 days ago ( first I thought it's a scam so I bet max 10 m ).And at last today I could show some of my power:
Amarylyn > iviviv wins 2,198,662,566.99 before rake. Congratulations

Gave back almost 300 m to guy who puted in so much, he risked all of his ISKs so for much fun (for me) he deserved to get back some.

Regards

Madam Darkness
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.09.20 03:34:00 - [15]
 

very nice iviviv cant wait till i get faced up agenst ya now :). Oh yeah A++++ i won over 500 million isk today from this game. Had my heart racing

Sasha Tar
Posted - 2008.09.20 04:01:00 - [16]
 

this is not a scam.. Amarylyn returned any bets that were after the buzzer or not up to the min bet.. I won 30 mill. great game imo.

Elisa Day
Shade.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2008.09.21 04:55:00 - [17]
 

Played a bunch today in jita local, no scam. It's like a chicken race with ISK, you people should try it Smile.

Antman159
Caldari
Psykotic Meat
Posted - 2008.09.21 05:58:00 - [18]
 

Not a scam (coming from someone who lost 500m), fun game and I heartily recommend it.

Dr4gonFly
Posted - 2008.09.21 20:20:00 - [19]
 

I was surprised also finding out it wasn't a scam.
Refreshing concept, enjoyed it and will certainly come back.

Good luck Very Happy

Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.09.22 12:11:00 - [20]
 

Couldn't someone with 50b walk in and pretty much guarantee a win every game?

Mandrain
Amarr
Russian Thunder Squad
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.09.22 12:52:00 - [21]
 

in theory..provider can tell u: "u lose" and turn off internet

Amarylyn
Gallente
Amarylyn's Original Game of No-Limit
Posted - 2008.09.23 11:24:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Amarylyn on 23/09/2008 11:24:42
To your point Ricdic: Yes the person with the most money could walk in and dominate this game and I have certainly seen people with a lot of isk dominate and intimidate others into strategic withdrawals.

However, usually people stop playing that person - he/she gets bored because the pots are so small (100,000) isk since no one is interested in playing them and then they leave, perhaps to return later - perhaps not.

Another thing to consider is that there always seems to be someone richer than you, and it doesn't matter how rich a person is if they don't have the nerve to put their isk in the game. I have seen much poorer players (I find out later that they were poorer) dominate richer players because they felt richer to the players at the time because of the bold moves they were making.

So while the answers to your questions is technically yes, a very rich person can dominate, the reality is that it happens infrequently. What is more often the case is that past winners tend to dominate since they have the experience of having received a large pot and therefore the confidence to put in large amounts of isk whilst newer players are often frightened by the random players (that have never even bet 1 isk) crying scam in the local channels.

Mr Ore
Posted - 2008.09.23 21:48:00 - [23]
 

Great game Very Happy
I won 86mil the first time i ever played, very happy about the live cam Amarylyn set up aswell, Well worth playing if you can risk it Twisted Evil

Arcon Telf
Gallente
N0 APOLOGY
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2008.09.24 01:18:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Arcon Telf on 24/09/2008 01:23:45
Edited by: Arcon Telf on 24/09/2008 01:22:13
Edited by: Arcon Telf on 24/09/2008 01:18:54
This is an exciting game and seems to be implemented well. But, be warned: you absolutely cannot play this game effectively with less than billions of ISK in your wallet (if not more). And from a gambling standpoint, the math is never on your side. The timings can be inaccurate, but apparently they are more accurate if you watch the webcam (this degenerates into too much metagaming for me, but that is a personal choice). Let me be clear that I am not questioning the legitimacy of this game - it seems completely legit so far as I can tell.

If you're looking for a thrill and don't value your ISK, this is a good way to go. Mathematically speaking, some of the lottery type games that are posted here provide better (or rather, more proper) odds to empirically justify risking your hard-earned ISK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot_odds

The reality is that this game is a portion of a portion of a no-limit Poker-type game; in my opinion, it's incomplete. The cards (math) and the human element (judgement) are removed. Strategy is diminished because the timings are not perfect - Amarylyn admits this freely in the game rules. For example, it is incredibly easy for Amarylyn to artificially inflate the pot by allowing time to run over slightly, which could potentially allow late bets into the pot, increasing it exponentially. To be clear, that is not an accusation, it is a statement of possibility, and I think that's important to consider before you bet your ISK.

We can never know that this is 100% legitimate, camera or not. In terms of the math, you simply cannot justify a bet. This truly is gambling, and it is impossible to diminish that factor to such an extent as to justify the risk. Please keep these things in mind when you decide to bet. You are paying for the entertainment provided - just like going to Vegas. Do not do this if you're trying to make ISK.

I could go on, but I think I've made my point. Have fun everyone!

PS: To keep the air as clear as possible, I will state that I played a few rounds, and bet/lost an insignificant amount of ISK. This is not a bitter post.

Edits: typos

Equate
Posted - 2008.09.24 04:30:00 - [25]
 


Amarylyn
Gallente
Amarylyn's Original Game of No-Limit
Posted - 2008.09.24 10:56:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Amarylyn on 24/09/2008 11:31:01
Edited by: Amarylyn on 24/09/2008 11:30:16
I think Arcon was the guy who broke out a stopwatch and starting timing the rounds. Laughing

It is exactly for these kind of players that the rules specifically state the betting window is not precisely a minute. I'm not a macro - I'm just a person that runs the game (in two chat windows simultaneously, and answers the phone, and chats with people asking questions etc...) and knowing that - I incorporated some flexibility into the timing of the game and explicitly stated that in the rules above.

As I have been watching many people play over the last week or so (read not precisely 7 days) I have noticed a few successful strategies.

The first is insuring the pot odds are in your favor - which you can do easily if you know what you are doing. For one, don't bet into a pot that you are not getting 3:1 odds on, meaning if the pot total is not at least thrice your bet then don't bet. Which means you have to wait for others to bet first in a round. The only exception to this is when you bet in the final round - at which point you justify your bet combining your 1:1 odds with your pot equity. Yes, there is more to making intelligent bets than just pot odds - imagine that.

Second, don't bet more than you have too. First. everytime a bet comes in the round clock is reset, giving people more time to come into the game from outside. Secondly, you don't need to pay more than the minimum to qualify for the next round - so don't. Unless you are trying to create a situation where you force people out by pricing them out of the next round, betting more than the minimum doesn't seem to make much sense. Last night I was dealing (yes I don't actually deal but I don't know a better name for what I do) a heads up game and in the fourth round they kept re-raising one another 200,000,000 isk then 300,000,000 isk. I was scratching my head.

The next round pot total was over a billion and neither of them could bet and as you all know when no one bets in a round - the house takes all. They effectively bet themselves out of the game. I would like to point out that I gave both players more than 1 minute to come up with the bet (there is that timing flexibility again Very Happy) I messages several times asking them to bet. That was the first time people bet out like that.

What's the lesson? Bet the minimum, because every time someone doesn't bet the minimum that increases the pot odds for all the minimum betting players.

Use the webcam! You can see the pot total change in real time so you can tell in the middle of the round what the pot total is. This is important because the pot odds change dramatically during the round. For example. If the round starts off with pot at 300,000 isk and someone raises 2 million the pot just became 2,300,000 isk and the minimum bet is still 300,000. Bet the minimum. The other play may just be giving you 1,700,000 isk that round.

Finally Arcon does make a valid point in that this game is best played with over a billion isk. If you are the person that committed 33 million and is watching the clock - praying that no one comes in this round - then you loose at No-Limit. Even if you win that game you loose because eventually someone will come in and break your little piggy-bank. This is a high stakes game. You will loose your isk if you don't have a high enough bank roll.

I know some people will chat in game - "I got 15 billion sitting right here." or "My BPO just sold for 3 billion"... these almost always earn you a call - they are typically a sign of weakness. Smart players don't tell others what they have, though in the case above it was a bluff that once called ends up like "Well I kinda lied about having 15 billion" - No shock there.

Amarylyn
Gallente
Amarylyn's Original Game of No-Limit
Posted - 2008.09.24 11:47:00 - [27]
 

You can win at No-Limit with very little isk (I mean less than a 1,000) You do that by taking the first pot. I have made some people millions by handing out 100,000 isk on a 10 isk bet. Since I always include a prize no matter how small or large the pot it you can win if no one else bets the first round. Talk about your pot odds. One player has even made a point to take the 5,000 he got as a new character and use No-Limit to make isk - I think he said he was up half a million.

These are the guppies of No-Limit, they will try to scoop up prizes when there is little action but if anyone else starts betting they dart away quickly - retreating until there is no action again then they nibble some more. You can win using this strategy.

When you move from that stage up to actually betting against people now you are a fish, and you will be eaten by bigger fish.

This game is simple. He who has the tallest stack of isk, and the nerve to bet it will win. You could be rich and timid - you loose at No-Limit, You could be poor and have the guts - you loose at No-Limit. You need to be rich and have guts, now don't get me wrong you may occasionally win only possessing one of the two winning characteristics (Rich & Gutsy) but over time without both qualities you loose at No-Limit.

Take a game yesterday for example, some smaller fish were darting around each other a bet of 2,000,000 here and another of 11,000,000 there. One of them was starting to venture out and dropped 15,000,000 - the pot was about 33 million at that point. Someone from outside bet 100,000,001 (you know who you are) and bet the other fish out - taking the 33 million from them. They were just asking to be sniped by playing high enough to draw attention but timid enough to look weak.

For those that haven't played there is actually quite a bit of strategy to playing. I'm just the dealer so I can't comment on the ethical practices, but opening chat with competitors or engaging them in pvp while playing a round isn't illegal and might be enough of a distraction to cause them to miss the betting window.

Anyhow, now you know a bit about how to win at "No-Limit", here's to hoping you make a billion isk! Cheers.

Sikander 2
Caldari
Firebird Squadron
Terra-Incognita
Posted - 2008.09.25 16:27:00 - [28]
 

hmm, great idea...killing them while they bet, before ransoming to fund your own betting sounds both profitable and fun...the only problem is finding them, but that should be easy enough if you can do it right Twisted Evil

Trixie Rose
Posted - 2008.10.19 01:54:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Trixie Rose on 19/10/2008 02:03:24
This is a fun game! Well planned and executed. Kudos to Amarylyn for putting all that work into it. Very Happy

[Edit:] Fun fact - A one on one minimum betting pays out 16,7%.

VC General
Caldari
No Baals Inc
Posted - 2008.10.24 02:24:00 - [30]
 

I haven't played, but it's obviously not a scam. Only thing I don't like about it is as Arcon said; There's not much in the way of strategy or odds, and seriously rich people can just own the game. Just have to hope there's no one playing at the moment who has more money then you do, and cares less about it. The entertainment value is strictly the adrenaline rush from the risk. It's more like dropping all your chips on #23 in roulette then playing no-limit poker.


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