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gordon861
Minmatar
PROGENITOR CORPORATION
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2008.09.03 10:26:00 - [31]
 

CCP URGENT JOB FOR YOU !

Create some form of .ini file (or number of them) that will store all the player defined client settings and options.

Things like :
    window positions
    overview settings/tabs
    bookmark folders
    market favourites
    screen colours
    remember which damn secure cans have been set to unlocked
    probably a load more that I've forgotten but this would be a good start

If you do this people will be able to reset their client back to how they like it everytime you bugger it up, or they get a client crash to which the standard response is 'try clearing the cache'.

I know we can backup parts of the cache directories now but things would be much easier if we could do this from a couple of files and have a good chance of it working afterwards. It would also allow overview settings to be shared so we are all shooting at the same thing.

Qordel
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2008.09.03 10:33:00 - [32]
 

Or just store the UI configuration in a server-side record so it can be applied to any client on any machine anywhere as long as it's under your account. Perhaps allow the storing of multiple configurations so you can switch if you like.

Ariane VoxDei
Posted - 2008.09.03 11:26:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Ariane VoxDei on 03/09/2008 11:29:45
Originally by: Loc Maythan
A request. For the next patch, can we have a big clock on the website showing GMT? Fun though it was reading 100's of posts saying "1900 GMT has passed! Where is the patch?" at 1815 GMT (1915 BST), a lot of slanging matches ensued, not least because some people just didn't seem to be able to grasp the concept of British Summer Time.


Nice suggestion. And to the confused podpilots out there across the world, let me suggest this:
http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/
And their short educational page:
http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/what-is-gmt.htm

Friendly, ad-free, no nonsense GMT site on the web. And yes that is a wwP, not www.

{ edit: I told a lie. It is add-free if you run no-script :) }

Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
Halinallen veroparatiisi
Inglorious Carebears
Posted - 2008.09.03 13:11:00 - [34]
 

They could just have a clock at the login screen. That would sort it out. No more whines and websites and such. Or even easier, just putt a timer! 01.24 left, 01.23 left, 01.23 left, 02.22 left...WTF!!!

Damaha
Posted - 2008.09.03 13:30:00 - [35]
 

thanks for the great patch!

>The market window will now have auto-refresh enabled by default.
>Turning auto-refresh off will prevent players from seeing modified
>or additional orders created by other players on the market unless
>they actively refresh the window...

Great Idea!!! Please please please, add same mechanism to market 'orders'
pages! I mean 'orders' in 'WALLET' window and 'my orders' in 'MARKET'
window.

Ephemeral Waves
Silver Snake Enterprise
Posted - 2008.09.03 15:25:00 - [36]
 

I'm sure that there was some sort of screwed up logic behind adding yet more buttons to my neo com. How do I turn them off? There is already too much there. I don't want a services button.

And, WHY DO I HAVE TO REARRANGE MY WINDOWS AGAINS?!?!?!?!?! I logged on and everything was in a pile in the middle of the screen. Actually, no it wasn't. The corp tab was missing all together and I had to relog to get it back.

How do I stop my station window from floating? I don't want things going behind it. I don't want it moving. I don't want the damned thing to be transparent.

Ephemeral Waves
Silver Snake Enterprise
Posted - 2008.09.03 15:25:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Qordel
Or just store the UI configuration in a server-side record so it can be applied to any client on any machine anywhere as long as it's under your account. Perhaps allow the storing of multiple configurations so you can switch if you like.


This doesn't work as many people have multiple computers with different resolution settings and thus different UI set-ups.


Captain Apoc
Order Of Common Wealth
Posted - 2008.09.03 16:05:00 - [38]
 

Lock sounds are messed up.. You hear "locked" sound too many times while you are locking an object.. Please do fix it immediately.

Haloxx
Star Section 9
Posted - 2008.09.03 17:00:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Haloxx on 03/09/2008 17:01:38
Originally by: MidNightRoD
When locking a ship, the "locked verification sound" plays randomly through the locking sequence. I hear 5 "locked" sound for one ship, and for multiple ships it gets really annoying. Anyone else experiencing this also?

Originally by: Captain Apoc
Lock sounds are messed up.. You hear "locked" sound too many times while you are locking an object..

I also experience this bug.

Jesho
Minmatar
Swedish Aerospace Inc
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2008.09.03 18:21:00 - [40]
 

from the the patch notes:
Quote:
If you have custom tab(s) in your overview then there is no "default" tab anymore. The "default" tab is only loaded if you have no tab settings. You can have up to 5 custom tabs.


why did you change this? there was nothing wrong with the default tab in combination with custom tabs.
i was using the default tab when i had custom overview tabs.

i see no reason for removing it and besides as it is now its a bit confusing when there is no default tab displayed on the overview but it do exist in the settings where you setup tabs.
if its supposed to be gone then it should be gone in both places.

and it also feels a bit odd that just because you create a custom tab the default one is auto removed, what if you had settings on it that you used?

Jaguar Dragon
Blood Association of Dragons
Blood Alliance of Dragons
Posted - 2008.09.04 01:29:00 - [41]
 

the new reproccessing plant window is totaly crap. i thought all my cans and ships were getting refined.

come on, ccp anything not pre-sellected and or highlighted should NOT appear in the reproccessing
window.and the complete and total lag out for 5 to 10 mins.

and i'm getting alot of system error messeges after undocking.

just my opinion is. too many fixes in one patch.
suggest you put out more patches more frequently with not so many fixes.

Nachtjaeger
Minmatar
COVENANT OF THE STARS
Posted - 2008.09.04 07:32:00 - [42]
 

Eve-Voice is still bugged for me. When I right click on a channel tab and choose join audio, nothing happens. If I do it with another 2 channels on the 2nd one it says you can only join two channels at a time, please leave a channel, which I can't do as I'm not in a channel. This was bug reported after EA 1.0 and was supposed to be fixed in 1.1. I'd bug report myself but the bug report section of the forum won't open for me.

Arna Padrona
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.09.04 21:12:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Arna Padrona on 04/09/2008 21:16:57



Several problems appeared with 1.1 and these are the ones I found. Two annoyances and a critical problem:



1) Annoyance: You can't "copy url" from a chat link any more.



2) Annoyance: You can't "check market details" from an item chat link any more. (Pricecheck? No - too much effort.)



3) Critical: Overview Changes (Tabs "broken")

Adding an item to your overview, or loading an overview setting now changes the tab!

You can no longer just click a tab you previously set up and be sure what you will get. Any mistake, or thoughtlessness will immediately ruin a tab - and in a combat situation it's very dangerous if your tabs suddenly show veldspar asteroids instead of pirates!

Setting up a tab in the settings window should edit a tab.

Setting an overview setting through right-clicking a tab should edit a tab.

Loading an overview setting rom the main menu should not edit the tabs.

Accidently adding an object to the overview absolutely must not edit the tabs!

Me - being both pvp, pve, miner, explorer, etc - have not only all my tabs in use, but a dozen extra settings that I load when it's required. Having this permanently edit my tabs every time is really a big problem. As a last resort, I've gone for having only 4 standard tabs now, and using one as a "junk tab" - the only one I am allowed to change. Unfortunately, mistakes still happen.

I'm hoping this is a mistake, that will be dealt with asap.

On a side note, it's good that you removed the default tab. It was messy, not very customizable and basically behaved like ALL tabs do now...

On another side note, it would be really cool if you could increase the max amount of tabs to 10 or so...

Tyleritus
Mortis Angelus
Posted - 2008.09.04 22:19:00 - [44]
 

Flashing personal wallets when items are brought or sold or jobs isntalled using corp wallet even though that person has no roles to corp wallet at all has still not been resolved, bug report submited.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2008.09.04 22:40:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Laendra
Where is the updated Data Export?
See here.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2008.09.04 22:42:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Yggdrassil
Migth be wrong, but for some of the ppl that keeps loosing folders and windows positions...

If you are running multiple clients of Eve / using the "/end /LUA:OFF" option, make sure you do not start Eve from the updater (as in answer yes to launching eve after its updated)

If you answer yes to that - the "/end /LUA:OFF" option ISN'T applied...
Furthermore, please note that as of Trinity 1.2 we stopped supporting the "/end /LUA:OFF" option since the client now saves its data into different folders for each (client folder, server name) pair.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2008.09.04 22:50:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Tabea Knute
CCP, you are able to count? No? I'll tell you: 1, 2, 3.

You are counting the asteroid belts in Misneden : 1, 3, 2. You get it? Ok.
Why can't we count them as 1, 3, 2 if we want to Evil or Very Mad

We were clearing up inconsistencies by renaming Asteroid Belts and Ice Fields according to their proper orbital IDs. The client sorts the belts according to their DB item IDs and in a few solar systems they are now displayed in the "incorrect" order. This has been fixed in an internal build and will be released later.

Fredou
Gallente
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
Posted - 2008.09.04 23:53:00 - [48]
 

2 things

can we have copy url and view market detail back in the menu on a right click in chat?

thanks

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2008.09.05 07:55:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Arna Padrona
Edited by: Arna Padrona on 04/09/2008 21:16:57

3) Critical: Overview Changes (Tabs "broken")

Adding an item to your overview, or loading an overview setting now changes the tab!

You can no longer just click a tab you previously set up and be sure what you will get. Any mistake, or thoughtlessness will immediately ruin a tab - and in a combat situation it's very dangerous if your tabs suddenly show veldspar asteroids instead of pirates!




Bug reported with ID 62089 and they tell me to put this up in the feedback thread in the forum (sigh).

Re-quoting the bug report

Description :
Prior to patch Empyrean 1.1, you used to be able to change things in the overview tabs (temporarily) and then revert it back to its original settings by :
1) Single click on the same overview tab
2) Clicking on a different overview tab and clicking back to the same tab.

Issue :
The single click expediency has disappeared post Empyrean 1.1 patch and the changes done to ANY of the tabs persists until you reload the profile.

This is poor implementation, reloading the profile involves :
- clicking and moving the mouse over to locate the correct stored profile.
- it is physically encumbering as you will have to go through 5-15 different profiles.
- you will need to remember the names of the profiles in order to correctly load the Overview & Brackets settings for a particular Overview Tab.

I have a hard time believing the post patch result is as intended. To summarize, fixing the overview so that it stays persistent when you change things in the tab is OK ... but in doing so, you broke the best way of returning it back to its custom settings. Now I need to muddle through several clicks and move my mouse over to the correct profile. Any reasonable person would see this flaw in the UI logic, making it more complex instead of simpler.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2008.09.05 11:23:00 - [50]
 

Sturmwolke, please note that the behaviour that you describe, in particular in 2) was defected to us. We changed it to the new/current behaviour at players' request.

CCP Tuxford

Posted - 2008.09.05 12:07:00 - [51]
 

Explorer is right, this issue was defected to us and fixed. In my opinion this is not natural behaviour, at least I have never experienced that in another program that clicking a tab works as an undo.

A much natural behaviour from me would be if you want to tinker around than you do so and if you want to revert to the previously loaded overview preset you right click the tab select "change overview setting" and select the setting you want.

We could of course maintain some history of what was in the tab and have it so that if you click your active tab it undos the changes. But like I said we already have a mechanism to do that through right click command and while you might thing that the more ways to do stuff the better that is not necessarily true. I could try to explain why but Joel Spolsky explains it far better than I can in his article Choices = Headaches

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2008.09.05 14:01:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Sturmwolke on 05/09/2008 14:04:22
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Explorer is right, this issue was defected to us and fixed. In my opinion this is not natural behaviour, at least I have never experienced that in another program that clicking a tab works as an undo.

A much natural behaviour from me would be if you want to tinker around than you do so and if you want to revert to the previously loaded overview preset you right click the tab select "change overview setting" and select the setting you want.

We could of course maintain some history of what was in the tab and have it so that if you click your active tab it undos the changes. But like I said we already have a mechanism to do that through right click command and while you might thing that the more ways to do stuff the better that is not necessarily true. I could try to explain why but Joel Spolsky explains it far better than I can in his article Choices = Headaches


It doesn't matter if it's not a natural behaviour. Think outside the box. The fact still remains that if I need to undo any temporary changes without affecting the tab's original settings, I can simply do it in one simple click. It was fairly intuitive when it first came out, despite its "defect" label.

Secondly, I wouldn't mind so much about the new changes if I use them rarely. As it is, I frequently use them to eliminate wrecks in the overview when doing missions and then reverting it back to original setting once the the pocket has been cleared of enemies. The same thing applies when I'm mining. Now I have to contend moving the mouse over and finding the correct Overview OR Bracket, then mouse over to the correct Profile. Imo, these are absurd steps for something which has a high frequency of usage.

Finally, to condense everything, all I'm asking is for CCP to acknowledge this fact and move forward to find a more palatable solution for this issue.

Remember the Alt key debacle?

CCP Tuxford

Posted - 2008.09.05 14:16:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Sturmwolke
It doesn't matter if it's not a natural behaviour. Think outside the box. The fact still remains that if I need to undo any temporary changes without affecting the tab's original settings, I can simply do it in one simple click. It was fairly intuitive when it first came out, despite its "defect" label.

Secondly, I wouldn't mind so much about the new changes if I use them rarely. As it is, I frequently use them to eliminate wrecks in the overview when doing missions and then reverting it back to original setting once the the pocket has been cleared of enemies. The same thing applies when I'm mining. Now I have to contend moving the mouse over and finding the correct Overview OR Bracket, then mouse over to the correct Profile. Imo, these are absurd steps for something which has a high frequency of usage.

Finally, to condense everything, all I'm asking is for CCP to acknowledge this fact and move forward to find a more palatable solution for this issue.

Remember the Alt key debacle?


Seems a bit silly way to do it tbh. Personally I'd just have two tabs, one with the setting you want when killing the other with the setting you use for looting. Unless you've filled your five tabs with stuff that you absolutely need to have one click away in which case we might be persuaded to allow more tabs but I doubt that is the case.

This undo feature is only ever acceptable if you are experimenting with settings all the time but my impression is that you're constantly removing the same thing from your overview.

Sorry mate so far you haven't convinced me that this defect fix needs to be undone.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2008.09.05 14:17:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: CCP Explorer on 05/09/2008 14:21:15

If I have multiple tabs open in my browser or multiple files open in my editor, then I wouldn't want the act of switching from one tab to another and then back to reset my work.

That's where from we are drawing the parallel, and I would guess also the defect we got. That is, the action to reset the state of the tab to its original saved state should be explicit.

Imhothar Xarodit
Minmatar
Wolverine Solutions
Posted - 2008.09.05 14:41:00 - [55]
 

Why not keep the option?

People who like the old behaviour can keep it and people who prefer the new behaviour can use that instead.

Customization is key!

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2008.09.05 14:58:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Sturmwolke on 05/09/2008 15:22:51
Originally by: CCP Tuxford

Seems a bit silly way to do it tbh. Personally I'd just have two tabs, one with the setting you want when killing the other with the setting you use for looting. Unless you've filled your five tabs with stuff that you absolutely need to have one click away in which case we might be persuaded to allow more tabs but I doubt that is the case.

This undo feature is only ever acceptable if you are experimenting with settings all the time but my impression is that you're constantly removing the same thing from your overview.

Sorry mate so far you haven't convinced me that this defect fix needs to be undone.


Originally by: CCP Explorer

If I have multiple tabs open in my browser or multiple files open in my editor, then I wouldn't want the act of switching from one tab to another and then back to reset my work.

That's where from we are drawing the parallel, and I would guess also the defect we got. That is, the action to reset the state of the tab to its original saved state should be explicit.


Mein gott .. 2 against 1, unfair! Shocked

To answer CCP Tuxford/Explorer, I wouldn't bet 10-15 tabs's enough for the variation of settings that can be out there. To me, certain things like wrecks or even drones are dynamic. They change according to the situation. I don't remove wrecks from the overview until it clutters it up ... or if I need to concentrate on the targets. What I do not need however are 2-3 different identical tabs that only differs with wrecks or drones turned off. That would be the penultimate silliness, tbh.

The best overview tabs work on a single theme, be it Mining, Moon, POS or etc. There are times when you need do minor temporary changes to suit the situation i.e righ click on something, remove it from the overview. Now, the latest 1.1 patch made this small changes persistent, great I've no issues with that. However (at the pain of repeating myself for the sake of clarity), to revert the tab back to its original settings, now I have to navigate down the righ-click menu > choose Overview Settings > navigate and choose the correct profile. It works, yes ... only if you're changing things 1-2 times a day. For folks that do this on a greater frequency, it becomes a daunting unnecessary hassle leading to second thoughts about minor overview changes, generally reducing their gaming experience.

I'm not looking for more than 5 tabs. I'm not looking for for CCP to bring back the old style if they're adamant about it.

What I'm looking for is a reduction in steps for the current overview tabs so that I can run it though without having to trip over with my mouse. Do I even need to suggest something simple as adding an extra choice called "Return Original Tab Settings" in the choices to that I don't have to mess around with either the Overview Settings nor the Brackets Settings?

There have been many posts about this scattered all over the forums in many different wordings. Part of the problem is proper description since it's not something you can easily describe consistently.

Arna Padrona
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.09.05 15:36:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Arna Padrona on 05/09/2008 15:39:17


Im afraid I too have to disagree with our CCP counterparts here. The new behaviour is problematic.

I already use all my tabs. Heck, I could easily use ten tabs, and *still* need to make temporary overview changes, or load temporary settings, becuase I'm "out of tabs".

For example: I like to have the following settings, at LEAST:

NAV: Only stargates and bases. (Ever tried locating a stargate in the overview when launching from Rens, Brutor?)
FOE: Only enemy and neutral ships. (MUST have for fleet warfare.)
FRIEND: Only friendly ships. (MUST have for fleet warfare.)
SKIRMISH: All ships, but only ships. Useful for smaller engagements.
NPC: Standard mission setup.
WRECKS: Missions setup with wrecks added.
E-WARP: Lists only planets and moons. (A super-fast way of finding a "random" warp-out point in a hot situation.)
FW: Complexes need a special and delicate mix of beacons, npcs, and player ships.
VELDSPAR:...
SCORDITE: ...
PY...
ARKONOR: ...


As things are now, I have no choice but to settle for 4 tabs with permanent settings,
and use one of the tabs as the "junk tab" - the one where I can load or change, confident that it will not ruin my fleet settings.

However, a mistake will still change one of my important fleet tabs. If I forget to switch to the junk tab first, I also end up destroying a tab.

This is not good. This is not good at all.



I can understand the comparison to tabs in browsers, but I also disagree with it strongly. These tabs are "temporary", and in a constant state of flux. A browser tab is a workspace, not a setting. The overview tabs may look like browser tabs, but I see them as nothing but a way to quickload a predefined setting - and judging from the overwhelming responses all over the forums, so did 90% of the player base.

I hope you take the matter into advicement. Settings only make sense if they stay set.

Arna Padrona
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.09.05 16:22:00 - [58]
 

IF you decide that this new tab behaviour is what you want, then you need to make more changes to make it functional:

For example, if I have a tab that says "ENEMIES", I expect to click it and see the enemies. There's no quick-n-easy way to verify that this is true.

So here's the changes that you would have to implement, as a bare minimum:

1) Tabs need to indicate what they actually DO. So, for example, you could make the active tab's NAME be forced to the currently loaded overview SETTINGS NAME.

2) You can currently load an overview setting through the setting window, through the tab menu, and through the main menu. Honestly, remove the main menu load/save, and just settle for load/save in the tabs.

3) Consider the overview settings window as well. Is there a reason to have a tab-setup area here, for something that's not in any way set? This area in the settings just leads people to thing that we are in fact dealing with SETTINGS, not WORKSPACES in flux.

4) Probably wouldn't hurt to make sure the currently used bracket setting is listed somewhere too, so you can see what that is set to as well.

5) We also have the interesting situation now that the overview "setting" is in a state of flux, but the brackets are actual permanent settings. I'm not sure what to do about this, but it warrants some thought from your part.



I still don't agree that this is a good way to do it all, but if you are going to do this, it needs to be done right. We need to be able to tell what the tabs do.

CCP Explorer

Posted - 2008.09.05 17:27:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: CCP Explorer on 05/09/2008 17:28:25
Originally by: Sturmwolke
I'm not looking for for CCP to bring back the old style if they're adamant about it.
Please understand our position. CCP Tuxford implemented the previous version and it was defected by players. Based on that feedback he implemented this new version. And you don't like it. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't Sad

The way the current version works is that if you have tabs T1 and T2 and load settings S1 and S2, if you make a modification M1 to T1 then S1+M1 is written into the setting "Not Saved" and T1 is switched to that setting. If you switch to T2 then you get S2, if you switch back to T1 then you get "Not Saved". If you then switch to T2 and make a modification M2 then S2+M2 is written into "Not Saved" and T2 is switched to that setting. Both T1 and T2 are then on the "Not Saved" setting.

We have considered having more than one "Not Saved" setting, essentially S1 and S1* and S2 and S2* (where the * is the often used indicator that a something has changed but has not yet been saved). In that design T1 would switch from S1 to S1+M1=S1* and T2 would switch from S2 to S2+M2=S2*.

But we want to keep this simple and not add buttons and options all over if that doesn't solve the use cases.

Note that you can have many more settings than tabs; while we have to restrict the number of tabs because of space in the UI then we don't want to restrict the number of settings to 5. For example, reading your description it would seem that you should have a "kill" setting and a "loot" setting and load into two tabs. When you are doing something else you would load something completely different into some other tabs.

Azuse
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.09.05 18:06:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Azuse on 05/09/2008 18:21:47
I think what the previous poster is trying to say is that 5 fixed state + 1 felxible is better that 5 simi flexable, i.e. i used to have 5 tabs that did not change + default that i alter when i needed to say add moons/pos etc to my scanner allowing me to quickly while now i have 5 tabs, say 1-5, now if i need to add something i can but when i flick to anopther and back it doesn't reset and that tab, despite displaying my inital pre-set it behave with the previous alterations but when i relog they revert to the presets.
A good UI should be clear and easily understood. I presume that's why we got the ability to define and lable pre-set in the first place, but this is anything but now. I have the screen realestate for 6 tab, i had them before, why are my options being reduced when they were functioning perfectly well before. More over why, if it is true some people didn't like them, am i being penalised for their dislike?

If you're damed if you do and damed if you don't, well the simplest solutions are usually the best, why not just give those players that dislike it the option to remove it, or those that do the option to have it? It would only be 1 additional check box in the esc menu + there's nothing else occupying that part of my screen. The reality (for me) is now not only have i lost some functionality but part of my screens real estate is now being wasted where previously it was perfectly functional.

Aslo on the note of the UI, why when i r.click on a character in local do i find teh show info tab at the top of the list (which is obviously a highly used) yet when i r.click ona character on my overview or in sape, both of which are common in busy systems, do i find the show info at the bottom of the list? I only noticed it today after scrutinising my ui for improvements, but found myself miss clicking other options where i expected to show info. It's a simple but hindering inconsistency in the ui, it irritates me but for new players i doubt it make their lives easier either.

Out of curiosity, how many other people have the fleet stabber vanish after they use a stargate? ugh


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