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Samuel Miner
Caldari
Perilous Expedition
Posted - 2008.08.30 17:57:00 - [1]
 

Hello,

I have just started to Invent some stuff just for fun to see how it works and such. I chose to Invent a Acolyte II. I have all the relevant skills at V (I have not been playing eve much because of time restraints so I was able to max a few skills). I invented 9 of these and 7 worked woot! (or so I thought mwhaa mwhaa).

When I come to examine the BPC it was not all that I expected. It had -4 Me Pe which is fine thats what I expected but the kicker is I used a max run BPC but only got 10 runs which in turn only produces 10 units that wait for it .....sell at around 50k. Now it takes 1x Electronic Eng and 1x Mechanical Eng and the BPC to Invent. Now that comes to about roughly 1 million just to invent and thats before you even produce them!

Obviously theres no profit to be made inventing these items and I thought I was just unlucky when I picked these BPC to invent before reserching the market. So I took a look at some other items that may be actually worth inventing and I was quite shocked tbh. Well what I mean is it seems that only like something 30 % or less(this is a guess on my part but tell me your %%%) of items on the market are actually worth inventing predominantly ships seem to be the best choice. Im not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing but what I do wonder is, 'was this how the DEV's intended it to be?'

I know that BPO holders have less overheads but it seems that inventors are quite restricted in what they can invent as there seems to be massive oversupply in alot of areas and it cant be coming from the inventors as they would lose money hand over fist if they invented these items. So Invention working as intended yet ?

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.08.30 18:02:00 - [2]
 

BPos don't have a huge effect on the market, although I don't know too much about manufacturing in general.

You tried using decryptors?

Samuel Miner
Caldari
Perilous Expedition
Posted - 2008.08.30 18:07:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Samuel Miner on 30/08/2008 18:07:13
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
BPos don't have a huge effect on the market, although I don't know too much about manufacturing in general.

You tried using decryptors?


If I used decryptors it wouldn't be worth it, I would only use one on a invention that was profitable without a decryptor and use it just to enhance the profits, atleast thats how I see they should be used but I could be wrong.

Zaknussem
Everybody Loves Donuts
Posted - 2008.08.30 18:07:00 - [4]
 

From my (limited) research into the subject, Invention will never work as intended as long as T2 BPOs exist as a finite resource like they do right now.

Eomar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.08.30 18:13:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Zaknussem
From my (limited) research into the subject, Invention will never work as intended as long as T2 BPOs exist as a finite resource like they do right now.



best you go and do a little bit less limited research, invention IS working as intended, prices of T2 items are very low availability is very high.



Samuel Miner
Caldari
Perilous Expedition
Posted - 2008.08.30 18:19:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Samuel Miner on 30/08/2008 18:20:20
Originally by: Eomar
Originally by: Zaknussem
From my (limited) research into the subject, Invention will never work as intended as long as T2 BPOs exist as a finite resource like they do right now.



best you go and do a little bit less limited research, invention IS working as intended, prices of T2 items are very low availability is very high.





So do you think Invention is working how it was intended and that it sole intention was to just bring down prices ? If so do you think that its a good idea that most items(imo) are not profitable for the inventor to produce start to finish ?

Eomar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.08.30 18:30:00 - [7]
 

Where did you try to sell these drones?

how close to average is the price you tried to sell them at.



how popular is the drone? how many other inventors are making them? how many of them are selling below cost and dragging the prices down?

how many of the bpos for acolytes are currently in production? how many are being sold on open market? how much profit are those making?



there are a million variables. most of which youll find discussed on the market forums.



BPOs do not factor as hugely as you think, even a casual observer can see the massive difference invention has made to the markets.


what do YOU think the purpose of invention was?

I personally think its achieved its goal, a lot more industrialists have access to the t2 market, supply has increased cost has decreased, and in some cases t2 bpo owners have been driven to mothballing bpos as theyre not competitive


there are far more qualified people than i to discuss this, im sure theyll be along to set you straight shortly,


some are worth listening to, most ARENT making massive isk off inventing. the ones that are will largely ignore you and then laugh gleefully at thier huge piles of isk made from invention which "doesnt work"

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.08.30 18:40:00 - [8]
 

Read the posts by Lord Fitz in this thread:

link

Samuel Miner
Caldari
Perilous Expedition
Posted - 2008.08.30 18:50:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Samuel Miner on 30/08/2008 19:05:29
Originally by: Eomar




how popular is the drone? how many other inventors are making them? how many of them are selling below cost and dragging the prices down?

how many of the bpos for acolytes are currently in production? how many are being sold on open market? how much profit are those making?



there are a million variables. most of which youll find discussed on the market forums.






I did look at most of the variables that you spoke of there, it seems to me that your saying that you can make money of inventing Acolyte II and other similar items I really dont think you can unless you go to the fringes of empire space and low/null sec and the like, but if I am going to do that I may aswell buy them of the market and just be a trader. Does anyone invent items like these and make a decent profit or any profit for that matter?

As for the intentions of invention, well in some respects I think that it has done it job too well and prices may be too cheap and frankly too easy which is another factor as to why it is hard to turn a profit on inventing alot of the items(not all).

EDIT I have read Lord fritz post yesterday and tbh I agree with most of it. He says he made 4 billion isk lst month and I believe him but did he do it just inventing a select few or even one or two item (probably ships at a guess). Excluding crap items that noone buys anyway regardless of ivention, shouldn't we be able to turn a profit on 90 % of the items ? Maybe the way forward is to actually make invention harder but if this was done would the BPO holders profit more form this than the inventors?

Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.08.30 18:53:00 - [10]
 

"So I took a look at some other items that may be actually worth inventing and I was quite shocked tbh. Well what I mean is it seems that only like something 30 % or less(this is a guess on my part but tell me your %%%) of items on the market are actually worth inventing predominantly ships seem to be the best choice. Im not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing but what I do wonder is, 'was this how the DEV's intended it to be?"

this is so true... when you look closely, only tech 2 ships show some hope

Sergeant Spot
Galactic Geographic BookMark Surveying Inc.
Posted - 2008.08.30 19:31:00 - [11]
 

Many low demand items cannot be produced profitably.

Even if T2 BPOs are removed from game, at BEST price will rise to just UNDER the cost of production (this effect is not limited to Eve. It applies in any MMOG where players do producing without limits on said production.)

High Demand items MIGHT give a modest profit to inventors. Removal of T2 BPOs would have absolutely 100% ZERO effect on profit of inventors, again, for the same reason as above.

Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.08.30 19:46:00 - [12]
 

what is with vulture and nighthawk?

harpy and hawk?

why do inventors build one for profit and avoid the other like plague... the cost are nearly the same, but one of them sells much lower below the build cost on normal invention?

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2008.08.30 19:52:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Samuel Miner


So do you think Invention is working how it was intended and that it sole intention was to just bring down prices ? If so do you think that its a good idea that most items(imo) are not profitable for the inventor to produce start to finish ?


Lets see...

Average t2 module price before invention: ONE HUNDRED BILLION ISK

Average t2 module price after invention: Pretty cheap.

I would say that yes, it's working as intended.

Sicil Fioet
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.08.30 19:56:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Samuel Miner
So do you think Invention is working how it was intended and that it sole intention was to just bring down prices ? If so do you think that its a good idea that most items(imo) are not profitable for the inventor to produce start to finish ?

It is not the invention, it's the inventors. Ever wonder why these guys are inventing and producing T2 items if the profits are so low? Or are they perhaps doing something to cut their costs and max their profits that you are not accounting for?

Amateratsu
Caldari
The Pegasus Project
Posted - 2008.08.30 20:01:00 - [15]
 


Part of the problem is the metality that "minerals i mine myself/datacores i buy with rp are free" and don't factor those costs into their production.

Also supply and demand, if the supply of an item exceeds demand, markek competition will force prices down to the point where it is not profitable.

There is plenty of profit to be had through invention, you just need to do some research and find items that are profitable.

Grim Mercy
Heretic Logistics
Heretic Nation
Posted - 2008.08.30 20:17:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Eomar
and in some cases t2 bpo owners have been driven to mothballing bpos as theyre not competitive


This is dumb.

A T2 BPO does not have the ability to control a market, but it will produce it's item more cost effectively than it's invention counterpart. If people really are engaged heavily in invention, say producing Hammerhead IIs, and mothballed a Hammerhead II BPO, they should be dragged out in the street and shot for wasting my air, and possibly attempting to breed sometime in the future, further diluting the gene pool with their overwhelming ignorance and stupidity.

If you were saying some T2 BPOs have been shelved because invention made it possible to undercut yourself by declaring your self-gathered materials as "free," then I see what you're saying. However, those people are doing their own dumb thing, and it really only hurts those who don't do enough research before embarking on the next "get rich quick" scheme.

Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
Posted - 2008.08.30 20:18:00 - [17]
 

I make about 2-3 Bill a month on invention, on good months I can make as much as 6. And I own 2 T2 BPOs. Invention actually kicks my BPOs but, because they produce steady but very small profits.

Inventors win with diversification, where I for example concentrated on a number of ships for invention, and if I put in my time, I make quite a killing.

One bit of advice: Invention takes time, sometimes my items do not sell for months, but eventually they do sell. The patient Inventor, is a successful inventor, just like anything in EVE. The idea is that I am diversified enough in my Invention efforts, and patient enough to wait out the market stupidity of those who think that "minerals I mine are 'free', and moon materials I get from moons are 'free' and as such I make the 'profit' mentality."

Inventions and manufacturing was never an "easy street" in EVE, there is no such thing as "make an item and it immediately sells," one has to do market research, and one has to haul stuff to the most profitable hubs, and one has to make deals and basically run around, whether producing from the BPOs or doing the Invention. Best combination is a steady, albeit small profit, from the T2 BPO, combined with quick, and sometimes massive profits from Invention.

Example:
Take Kronos, you can buy the BPCs of really high quality on the Contracts for under 100 Mill now, I saw at least a dozen from the same guy on contracts at 95 Mill, all ME/PE -1 (Best you can get with invention). Add to it that at the moment, that if you build your own components, and really good prices on Megathrons, you can build a ship for about 400 Mill ISK. Add to it the fact that they sell between 620-690 Mill, and you have yourself a profit of at least 120 Mill per ship. You can build maximum (we are talking one character) 11 Ships, in 2.5 Days, thats 1.32 Billion ISK profit per build cycle. It might take 30 days, or 60 days to eventually sell ALL the ships you have built, but it is ISK in the pocket, and it is better than MOST T2 BPOs out there at this point in time.

When I left EVE at the end of July, I had 45 Kronos on the market at 690 Million ISK, I have come back the other day to discover that they have ALL SOLD, with the exception of 2 units. So, it is 43 Kronos, at approximately 120 Mill a pop profit, we are talking 5.160 Bill profit in little under 30 days.

So, you can derive your own conclusions from this. Since I am moving to a different item from Kronos, I felt it was not a big deal to let people know how I made my ISK last month, and it would not be a competition for me.

Trebor Locke
Gallente
Nexus Aerospace Corporation
Posted - 2008.08.30 22:05:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Amateratsu

Part of the problem is the metality that "minerals i mine myself/datacores i buy with rp are free" and don't factor those costs into their production.

Also supply and demand, if the supply of an item exceeds demand, markek competition will force prices down to the point where it is not profitable.

There is plenty of profit to be had through invention, you just need to do some research and find items that are profitable.



The fact that they can do that is their perogative. People will always find ways to cut prices but still make a certain profit margin. It is in the nature of business. If they wish to say their time is worth nothing for a certain part of production, they have raised their chances of their item being sold while still making a profit.

Amateratsu
Caldari
The Pegasus Project
Posted - 2008.08.30 22:22:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Amateratsu on 30/08/2008 22:29:41
Originally by: Trebor Locke
Originally by: Amateratsu

Part of the problem is the metality that "minerals i mine myself/datacores i buy with rp are free" and don't factor those costs into their production.

Also supply and demand, if the supply of an item exceeds demand, markek competition will force prices down to the point where it is not profitable.

There is plenty of profit to be had through invention, you just need to do some research and find items that are profitable.




The fact that they can do that is their perogative. People will always find ways to cut prices but still make a certain profit margin. It is in the nature of business. If they wish to say their time is worth nothing for a certain part of production, they have raised their chances of their item being sold while still making a profit.


Yes that is their perogative, but if they are selling their products for less than the value of the materials used to make them, are they really making a profit?

To Jinx Barker, it takes a damn site longer than 2.5 days to build a Marauder, especially if you build the componants yourself, unless you have multiple copies of the componant BPO's running simultainouslyVery Happy

Daddy Xerox
Posted - 2008.08.30 22:30:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Daddy Xerox on 30/08/2008 22:41:04
Originally by: Samuel Miner
Hello,

I have just started to Invent some stuff just for fun to see how it works and such. I chose to Invent a Acolyte II.


I'm sorry to inform you, but my Ultimate Carebear Excell spreadsheet indicates that, if you purchase all materials needed to invent & build your Acolyte II, you will find that there is considerable loss involved in selling.

Hobgoblin II have a very narrow margin of profitability.
There are many, many very profitable invention goods out there. For example, the Light Ion Blaster II, which is the primary weapon for the Taranis mobs and Catalyst/Cormorant blaster fittings.

To understand how profitable an invented T2 module is you will have to do some very weighty calculations. Creating my spreadsheet has taken months and still only covers about 1/3 of the inventible products.

Ships do return handsome profits, because the weight of Datacores involved in the invention process is a much smaller percentage over the overall invetion cost. The higher incidence of failure, however, cuts a deep hole into your profit margin however. I've found that ships taken individually can turn a profit, but taken as a group the longer build costs and weight of inefficiency tend to make them very unfavorable.

For an example, there are modules out there that, upon a successful invention with a -4 Material Efficiency have no waste! due to their very low initial build requirements. You can't shave, say, 2 morphite down much and even an extra 1 morphite does not have a detrimental affect on end costs. Your largest margin of waste is trit, pyerite, and other low-end minerals, which is negligable overhead. Your advanced components will see little affect due to waste on low-material T2 items (for example, 125mm Gatling Autocannon II).

Samuel Miner
Caldari
Perilous Expedition
Posted - 2008.08.30 23:21:00 - [21]
 

THX for your post Daddy Very Happy Now can you let me have a copy of that wonderful spreadsheet Razz.

Kil'Roy
Minmatar
The Rat Patrol
Posted - 2008.08.30 23:25:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Samuel Miner
THX for your post Daddy Very Happy Now can you let me have a copy of that wonderful spreadsheet Razz.


Free-loaders!, they are everywhere... Twisted Evil

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2008.08.31 00:50:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Gnulpie on 31/08/2008 00:52:05
Invention works perfectly fine.

Just don't expect it to be a cash cow where you can get isk for free out of nothing and for every available item.

You still need to research the market and the costs and possible profits.

And someone not completely strange is doing that BEFORE he enganges in the business...


Edit:
On a second thought ... yes, you are completely right. Invention is the worst crap ever. No profits, only losses there. Stay away from it and tell all your friends also to stay away from it unless they want to burn billions upon billions for nothing YARRRR!!

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.08.31 08:48:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Grim Mercy
Originally by: Eomar
and in some cases t2 bpo owners have been driven to mothballing bpos as theyre not competitive


This is dumb.

A T2 BPO does not have the ability to control a market, but it will produce it's item more cost effectively than it's invention counterpart. If people really are engaged heavily in invention, say producing Hammerhead IIs, and mothballed a Hammerhead II BPO, they should be dragged out in the street and shot for wasting my air, and possibly attempting to breed sometime in the future, further diluting the gene pool with their overwhelming ignorance and stupidity.

If you were saying some T2 BPOs have been shelved because invention made it possible to undercut yourself by declaring your self-gathered materials as "free," then I see what you're saying. However, those people are doing their own dumb thing, and it really only hurts those who don't do enough research before embarking on the next "get rich quick" scheme.


Really? Then you are a bit mathematically challenged.

Let's make an example with true number:
- building Quake L with a researched BPO I gain 850K ik day and must move the stuff to several systems to get enough sales even if the production is the staggering quantity of 6K units/day
- building Antimatter L I get a bit above 1 million day of gain and can sell them from the production station.

You see some reason why I should produce Quake ammunitions?





Aakito
Posted - 2008.08.31 08:54:00 - [25]
 

The whole invention system is flawed due to the fact that inventing uses the same set of datacores.

Some datacores go for 450k each, so any low cost item is automatically ruled out as non profitable. With the bpc limit at 10 runs, many cheaper items don't get invented. They get produced via t2 bpos.

Then the other problem, items share t2 components. A lot of components are priced to consider being used in expensive item production.

However, this doesn't mean you can't profit. Lots of other items are profitable to invent and produce.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.08.31 09:30:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 31/08/2008 09:39:46
Originally by: Samuel Miner
I chose to Invent a Acolyte II.
[...]
Obviously theres no profit to be made inventing these items
[...]
So Invention working as intended yet ?

1. That was your mistake. Acolyte IIs are crap. They barely sell above BPO costs.
2. Obviously not in Acolyte IIs. Pick another item. And do the math BEFORE you invent.
3. Yes, working as intended.

Prices for IN DEMAND T2 items are no longer set by the T2 BPO holders, but by inventors.
Granted, the prices are higher than that of a perfect, no-markup, researched T2 BPO build, but nobody cares... it's cheaper than it used to be, and also profitable to invent.

There's a VERY SMALL subset of items where T2 BPOs barely fill the demand.
For those, T2 BPO owners make pretty much the same profit they make otherwise, but inventors can't make a profit.
But, again, nobody really cares, since prices are still low.

Prices for crap T2 items that almost nobody wants are not set by T2 BPO holders, but by (the very infrequent) buyers.
Sure, you can't invent those for profit, but then again, having a T2 BPO of it isn't a big deal either.
Also, yet again, nobody cares, since prices for them are rock-bottom, yet still nobody uses them, due to the fact they're crap.


___

P.S. Of course, SOME people care. Inventors.
However, they mistakenly believe removing T2 BPOs would do them some good.
Tough news, IT WON'T.
Sales prices of "in demand" items will remain the same, and still won't be able to make a profit off crap items like Acolyte IIs.
The only thing that will happen is crap items will no longer be seen on the market, since the cost of manufacturing them will be well over the price anybody's ready to pay for them.

Valan
Posted - 2008.08.31 10:44:00 - [27]
 

You'll never make any money even if T2 BPOs are removed. I have T2 BPOs and they aren't profitable.

Why?

Because there is a large section of the community that believe things are free and don't factor them into the price.

Datacores are free because your agent gives them to you.
Minerals are free becuase you can mine them.

There are various other perversions that mean people under cut the base value.

Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
Posted - 2008.08.31 11:10:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Lord Fitz on 31/08/2008 11:15:10
There is very little demand for the Acolyte II drone, they do EM damage and not much of it so they're nut useful in PvP. Being as they're not useful in PvP, they're not lost much, which means next to no demand. This means the price of them is deflated hugely to the point where the BPO owners are not making alot of profit (a couple of percent). Now invention was introduced to CAP the profit made by BPOs, not to replace all of them, thus it is only useful in products that have more demand than BPO supply (which is most of them).

If the BPO owners aren't making any profit on an item you can't expect invention to make profit, of course the beauty of invention is that you can just invent something else that WILL make a profit, the BPO owner is stuck with their limited to nil profit BPO.

Now what you've done is invent something without taking the profit into account, which means that you are providing supply to the market, below the invention cost which actually reinforces what you see. The supply is greater than the demand thus it isn't profitable to invent, the longer that remains true, the longer it will be unprofitable to invent. There are plenty of people out there who think because they get the datacores from agents they're 'free' and everything they sell the built drone for is profit. Those people only help reinforce the low prices. The way it's supposed to work is that if an item isn't worth inventing, people DON'T invent it until the price rises enough for enough people to think they're worth inventing to match the supply with the demand.

So yes, inventors do contribute to the oversupply of many items, they are losing isk doing it, but they don't notice, because they're not taking into account the value of the materials if they sold them because they mine them or get them from agents themselves. The intention of invention is to remove the monopoly of BPO owners, think of it as alternative fuels compared to oil. They're harder to produce, and digging oil out of the ground is far easier, but once it becomes too expensive there are plenty of alternatives. It also provides a profession for tens of thousands of inventors and quite a nice profit spinner for many many people.

If you look at just how many inventors operate you may be shocked to know that the invention+build profit for many items with T2 BPOs is higher than that for many T2 items that don't have BPOs, simply because people assume that because a T2 BPO exists there won't be profit.

Also, with the lead time for invention + building, alot of people can do up their costs, buy materials, invent and build. And by the time their product hits the market, either the material cost has gone up or the sale price down. So to anyone looking at the market they're selling for lower than the 'current' invention cost. This is one of the competitive realities of the market, once people realise something's worth inventing it doesn't last for too long thousands of inventors decend upon the market and it evapourates.

One of the other things that is still affecting some items is that many people have old BPCs for items that are 1000 runs, when the new max run BPCs are 300 runs. This means that when they invent, instead of getting 10 run outputs they get 33 run outputs, which means their cost to invent is much lower than you'd think. There was also a bug with some that meant for a time 100 run T2 BPCs were produced, and the market dip produced by those still hasn't recovered.

FingerThief
Gallente
Posted - 2008.08.31 11:39:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Zaknussem
From my (limited) research into the subject, Invention will never work as intended as long as T2 BPOs exist as a finite resource like they do right now.


Invention does work nicely.

Ask any Tech II BPO owner how fast he can build items and that directly translates to profit.
I can use 3 characters to invent and have a success rate of 5/10 on the item I specialized.
The same three characters I can use to build ( 10 slots each ) and that makes 300 items every 2d 4h and they sell at 500k profit minimum each and that number already is net, after deducting datacores etc. I am NOT using decrypters since those would thoroughly mess up the profit margin.

I need to do 60 invention jobs every 46h ( total time 4h 40m ) to support the continue manufacturing of 300 items per batch. No Tech II BPO owner can deliver that quantity ( as in building from 30 BPO ) and therefore influence the market ( in Jita ) the way I do.

Tech II invention works as intended and for the masses once you do it big. If you do it smalltime, for yourself ... you have all the shiny items but certainly no market weight.

FT

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2008.08.31 16:01:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: FingerThief
Originally by: Zaknussem
From my (limited) research into the subject, Invention will never work as intended as long as T2 BPOs exist as a finite resource like they do right now.


Invention does work nicely.

Ask any Tech II BPO owner how fast he can build items and that directly translates to profit.
I can use 3 characters to invent and have a success rate of 5/10 on the item I specialized.
The same three characters I can use to build ( 10 slots each ) and that makes 300 items every 2d 4h and they sell at 500k profit minimum each and that number already is net, after deducting datacores etc. I am NOT using decrypters since those would thoroughly mess up the profit margin.

I need to do 60 invention jobs every 46h ( total time 4h 40m ) to support the continue manufacturing of 300 items per batch. No Tech II BPO owner can deliver that quantity ( as in building from 30 BPO ) and therefore influence the market ( in Jita ) the way I do.

Tech II invention works as intended and for the masses once you do it big. If you do it smalltime, for yourself ... you have all the shiny items but certainly no market weight.

FT



But the BPO holder can also dabble in invention on the sideline. And how many copy jobs do you use again? Doing inventions is the least of it. Copy is what takes the majority of the time.

Its just as dumb as the minerals are free because I mine them. or Datacores dont cost anything from my agents. To say a BPO holder dont dictate and control huge amounts of the market. There is alot of modules and ships where BPO holders simply control it. You just cant touch it. Or places where demand is not significant higher than supply. Thats where BPO holders will dominate aswell.

Plus...why did they get this freaking ISK printer in the first place? T2 BPOs should be set to a finite amount of runs. Say 250 run for ships, 2500 for modules etc.
Also invention should be made so you can invent from a BPO, ofcourse without losing it. And the ME -4 hell should be reduced to _-1 or -2 along with PE.

And empire slots should be fixed. Its a horrible concept we have empire space pasted with POSes. Also the ones of my own. Simply to do basic stuff that stations should be able to provide. Dynamic cost and perhaps standing locks would be nice.


 

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