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CCP Atropos

Posted - 2008.08.28 16:34:00 - [151]
 

Razz

CCP Zulu

Posted - 2008.08.28 16:36:00 - [152]
 

Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: CCP Atropos
oh hi.
Given the increasing correlation between whines and nerfs recently, I wouldn't link to that on my CCP character. Correlation does not imply causation, I know, but still.

Also, not really related to forums.

:p


/nerf

Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
Posted - 2008.08.28 16:36:00 - [153]
 

Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
waaaa CCP doesnt care anymore waaaa.

Seriously, looked in the ****ing mirror lately? Havent you had the time or the friking sense to look at where you are, and where you're coming from?

You are a player, amongst 200k+ accounts, on a server that at most has 40k on at any time.

You are part of a community that, for the past 3 years, has done nothing but whine, steal, grief, and kill their fellow player, and has brought it onto the forums, dressed in shiny clean words and "logical" posts that "carry no bias".

You are part of the bigger problem in EVE, not the whistleblower that is meant to cause change. Change yourself before you go telling CCP, let alone other people, how to do their ****ing jobs.

/endrant.


Indeed, it's all the customers' fault! They may be paying their fees and adhering to the EULA, but it's still their fault, including the way CCP doesn't fix the lag or bugs!

I kinda missed the idiot fanboi posts in this thread, thanks.


Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2008.08.28 16:42:00 - [154]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: CCP Atropos
oh hi.
Given the increasing correlation between whines and nerfs recently, I wouldn't link to that on my CCP character. Correlation does not imply causation, I know, but still.

Also, not really related to forums.

:p


/nerf
Laughing

You guys are really going for it today.

There may be hope for you yet.

Sakura Nihil
Selective Pressure
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2008.08.28 16:46:00 - [155]
 

The GM and dev responses to community concerns the last day or two have been a step in the right direction, but just a step, and needs to be sustained.

We need sufficient moderation, as many people have pointed out previously in the thread. Before, during the later period of CRC, there was too much imo, creating what was perceived at times as a stifling atmosphere not conducive to discussion. Now, its the opposite, where threads can be swarmed with alts much like CAOD (as evidenced in the nano-nerf thread in the Info Center). Either expand the paid moderation positions, or open it back up to volunteers. While there is inherent bias in the latter option, effective moderation that is biased at times than good but select moderation.

At the same time, if we're going to get this place back on track, we need to crack down on the alts. Eliminate or seriously reduce their number of posts, and it makes it easier for the existing mod staff to deal with real player posts and threads, and gives forum discussions more respectability.

Finally, with regards to the devs listening to the playerbase, I can understand that it must be a bit difficult from their point of view, with many competing sides saying "listen to me, not them!". Listen to us, but not all of us - does a post have sufficient reasoning and rationality behind it? Is its purpose to make the devs reconsider an impending nerf or to insult them for it? If the devs listened to all the alts out there as well as the pure emo-ragers, we'd be screwed Wink...

So anyways, to wrap up. Moar communication, let us know you're alive and what's up, it helps us stay in the loop and see you as members of the community rather than the occasional dev that shows up to smite something. We shouldn't just see you when the NerfBat is about to strike Smile - take a hint from Oveur, yea Razz?

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2008.08.28 16:56:00 - [156]
 

Edited by: Gnulpie on 28/08/2008 17:07:00
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
hi :)

Just dropping by to see what's going on in this thread.




That is exactly what is missing in many threads. Individual devs saying 'hi' and their opinion, salted with a grain of humory, irony.

Understandable that they do not want to do it in many crap posts on the forums. But then ... please be more strict on those moronic trolls on the forums. It is bad enough to have them in CAOD, but they are spreading now everywhere it seems. And that destroys the formus bit by bit.

And example for the slowly detoriating the above said, that devs just past by, saying hi. And they can't even be blamed because of the quality of the average posts. Sad

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2008.08.28 17:02:00 - [157]
 


I dont like dev opinions, they are clearly overpowered.

Tiberius Maddox
Posted - 2008.08.28 17:02:00 - [158]
 

Edited by: Tiberius Maddox on 28/08/2008 17:39:09
Originally by: Evelgrivion
While these forums were created with the purpose of facilitating interaction between developers and players, the Eve Online forums can be best described as a festering cesspool. The moderation team currently employed by CCP is not up to the task. There are far too many people posting far too much stuff to expect any reasonable measure of control with only two active moderators. Swamped with work, the decay into an ever growing mess of memes, 'poasting' and trolling is ongoing. This has to change. At this point, I'm not entirely against nuking this place and starting over. Meanwhile, reintroducing volunteer based forum moderation deserves serious consideration.

Interesting comments, and I see where you are coming from.

I've managed a number of game forums since about 2000 with posts into the millions, so it's fair to say I'm intimately familiar with the process of administering and moderating forums. Over that time I've learned there is no such thing as a "right" way to moderate a forum full of gamers, although there are certainly wrong ways. And it isn't hard to see that this particular community would be difficult to moderate, even under the most favorable conditions.

In the final analysis, a forum is just a reflection of the community it serves, and it has to cater to the needs and desires of said community. It seems that EVE's sandbox approach to MMO design has attracted a community which desires the same level of freedom on the forums. And, for better or worse, it seems the EVE community as a whole enjoys the freedom that the EVE forums generally offer, even if that means there is a very high signal to noise ratio.

But I absolutely understand that type of environment puts a lot of people off. But all is not lost! There are a number of very active and growing game forums dedicated to EVE Online on the web, and it's nice to know you have other options to interact with EVE players besides the official forums.

Chasse Impetus
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2008.08.28 17:05:00 - [159]
 

Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
waaaa CCP doesnt care anymore waaaa.

Seriously, looked in the ****ing mirror lately? Havent you had the time or the friking sense to look at where you are, and where you're coming from?

You are a player, amongst 200k+ accounts, on a server that at most has 40k on at any time.

You are part of a community that, for the past 3 years, has done nothing but whine, steal, grief, and kill their fellow player, and has brought it onto the forums, dressed in shiny clean words and "logical" posts that "carry no bias".

You are part of the bigger problem in EVE, not the whistleblower that is meant to cause change. Change yourself before you go telling CCP, let alone other people, how to do their ****ing jobs.

/endrant.


This.

To put things in perspective, we are all subscribers to an entertainment CCP provides. This forum is a form of customer feedback, and we are forgetting our place in this whole arrangement.

It's nice that CCP listens to what their customers want and take into consideration - there's plenty of evidence of this.

But at the end of the day, what's at stake for us is being bored during our pass time, and for CCP, their livelihood - CCP should have the final word on game decisions. Let's not act like it's the other way around.

Synapse Archae
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.08.28 17:26:00 - [160]
 

Edited by: Synapse Archae on 28/08/2008 18:41:26
Edited by: Synapse Archae on 28/08/2008 17:27:50
Honestly CCP's communication with the player base has sucked for the last few months, period. Having been here since the beginning, I have only felt quite so left out in the cold once before, in 2005. That period ended with a promise that there would be more dev blogs and mroe visibility on the forums. And there was until recently.

2-3 Dev blogs a month is terrible. The number of dev posts in the forum is terrible. The lack of updates to the development, testing, and ideas pages is terrible. It's been nice to see some attention out of this thread, but I'd love to see a higher profile from CCP employees on the forums.

You can either post more, and tell people to take your posts with a grain of salt
or you can post less, and tell people your posts are correct always. Please choose option number 1. People will get used to it and the whining will die down. I'd rather have more dev posts with public knowledge being that its all speculation until you see it in a dev blog, than not hearing from devs until they have a definitive answer.

Threv Echandari
Caldari
Moira.
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2008.08.28 17:29:00 - [161]
 

In Ref to:
Originally by: CCP ZuluPark
To clarify the speed stuff a bit: Some changes to the nano-speed mechanic are still very much planned. However they were far too big to get into our 1.1 release on time and we wanted more public testing on it. So we removed it from the upcoming patch, put it into public testing on multiplicity stand-alone to give us more power over tweaking and changing it around.

The more it's tested and tried the better it will be in its final incarnation.


his one little Note in DEV Blog Right after the Changes were pulled would have gon a long way. This is what users mean by communication being too little to late.

As for Jades Ideas...probably not goin to happen but they sound good to me (and I rarely agree with Jade). For those who complain about "My Rights My Account" they have CONTROL blah blah... Actually the control always rests with the player. Dont like the Corp or the Way youre CEO muzzles you when you ****-poast Quit and make your own corp of **** poasters. (who will get banned for ****-poasting--of course this will hurt BoB and Goons and the 1 man Alt poasting corps but they are the ones who are responsible for it in the first place. Oh the other way you have control... Stop ****-poasting and meme flinging.....(too much to ask of some know)

As far as CCP Atropos link.. If its not obvious to some I'll spell it out, for all the sturm und drang and wringing of hands over proposed changes CCP has collected stats on what the majority of actual players do as opposed to waht they SAY they do here.. (mister Uber yaaring "carebears must die!" PvPer with the Mission running, Trade humping money maker alts I'm looking right at YOU and so is CCP apparently). So despite 60 pages of Thread about how Nanos aren't broken and their obvious counters.. Cold hard data shows something else.....(I don't care, I like ECM Boats so I always fling poo @ speed demons..)

Keep the Posts coming Dev's just try to not to let the fires get too out of control... Perception is reality when it comes to PR..

Viper ShizzIe
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.08.28 17:36:00 - [162]
 

Why does Zulupark have more posts in this thread than our "Community manager" has had in the entire month of August?

Beltantis Torrence
Wolfsbrigade
ShadowWolves.net
Posted - 2008.08.28 17:42:00 - [163]
 

Edited by: Beltantis Torrence on 28/08/2008 17:45:50
Honestly, you'd be shocked at how effective a public, prioritized list of issues to address and fix is at making people happy. Its dead silence that makes people angry because they feel like CCP is either unaware of the issues or has no intention of fixing them. Something like :

Priorities:
1) Fix lag.
2) Fix defender missiles.

etc etc etc. Something as simple as that makes people happy. Its generally pointless to expect dev's to comment on running threads. I don't believe CCP should have to 'cave' to issues, or what have you but the reason why people keep bringing them up is there is an impression that CCP doesn't know about the problems or doesn't realize they impact people. Once the dev blog came out about fixing nano's how many nano whines have there been? Went from one whine per day to zero. Why? Because people felt it was redundant to mention how unbalanced nanos are because CCP was already aware of the issue and working to address it.

Its honestly that simple.

Synapse Archae
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.08.28 17:48:00 - [164]
 

Originally by: Beltantis Torrence
Edited by: Beltantis Torrence on 28/08/2008 17:45:50
Honestly, you'd be shocked at how effective a public, prioritized list of issues to address and fix is at making people happy. Its dead silence that makes people angry because they feel like CCP is either unaware of the issues or has no intention of fixing them. Something like :

Priorities:
1) Fix lag.
2) Fix defender missiles.

etc etc etc. Something as simple as that makes people happy. Its generally pointless to expect dev's to comment on running threads. I don't believe CCP should have to 'cave' to issues, or what have you but the reason why people keep bringing them up is there is an impression that CCP doesn't know about the problems or doesn't realize they impact people. Once the dev blog came out about fixing nano's how many nano whines have there been? Went from one whine per day to zero. Why? Because people felt it was redundant to mention how unbalanced nanos are because CCP was already aware of the issue and working to address it.

Its honestly that simple.

'
You know they could just update the in development and in testing pages more than once a year. Thats what they are for.

Beltantis Torrence
Wolfsbrigade
ShadowWolves.net
Posted - 2008.08.28 17:54:00 - [165]
 

Originally by: Synapse Archae

You know they could just update the in development and in testing pages more than once a year. Thats what they are for.


Yeah, so long as visibility is there. If I can't navigate to it from the main page or Eve login screen or somewhere highly visible then it doesn't address the problem - which again I'll emphasize is a disconnect in communication. Someone who updates the page every week or so with minor edits to keep it fresh and a prioritized list of what good stuff is coming. Doesn't need to be a full dev blog style article, just a bullet list. Its a very effective tool to put people at ease.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.08.28 17:56:00 - [166]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Originally by: Malcanis
Edited by: Malcanis on 28/08/2008 13:23:04
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Originally by: Malcanis

Ah, so the relentless deprecation of non-consensual empire PvP, the greatly decreased frequency of dev-blogs and the near-disappearance of the devs from the fourms are all just in my imagination?

That is a relief.


I don't see any "relentless deprecation of non-consensual empire PvP" anywhere. If anything we're moving closer now to how the game used to be a few years back, that is, closer to how it was always meant to be.

Sure, there has been a decrease in dev blogs, but then again it's summer. That'll be stepped up in the near future. I'll have a blog out for example within the next few days.

furthermore, forums.


Alliance 'P'
CONCORD buff
war dec rules changes (lofty)
CCP Dev referring to war-decs as "pay to grief" system
Increased sec-hits

Can you point me to the last change or global decision made in favour of non-consensual empire PvP?


I think there's a world apart between baiting people into flagging themselves and actually putting in effort to "non-consensually" kill someone.

The Concord buff isn't made to kill a specific gameplay option, it's done to level out the risk/reward ratio.


With respect, I disagree. Since when did tricking people into putting themselves into danger become something alien to EvE? that's the very essence of combat in this game. That's what non-consensual means. They don't WANT to fight, but because they were careless or foolish or hasty or too trusting they have to.
I'm not trying to argue you into reversing the decision or anything, but please don't try and pretend that the decision wasn't one of a string of decisions that have reduced the scope of non-consensual PvP in hi-sec.

And what of the "alliance P" nerf? You can't call that anything but a huge deprecation of hi-sec non-consensual combat with a straight face. I noticed you avoided the biggest issue: a CCP dev in an official blog calls war-decs "a pay to grief" system.

With no gang trickery, with suicide ganking rendered largely uneconomic, with war-decs classed as griefing - what options exactly will remain viable in hi-sec? can-baiting miners? For how long?

Again, by all means, you devs should guide and mold the game as you see fit. You're in charge. All your veterans ask of you is open, transparent communication about the direction we're going in.

Khandara Seraphim
Amarr
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2008.08.28 17:58:00 - [167]
 

This thread makes me smile... This is all we want from you CCP

Agree or disagree with us and our ranting, just let us know you care every now and then Very Happy

Jimer Lins
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.08.28 18:04:00 - [168]
 

Originally by: Jastra
Originally by: Evelgrivion

While these forums were created with the purpose of facilitating interaction between developers and players, the Eve Online forums can be best described as a festering cesspool. The moderation team currently employed by CCP is not up to the task. There are far too many people posting far too much stuff to expect any reasonable measure of control with only two active moderators. Swamped with work, the decay into an ever growing mess of memes, 'poasting' and trolling is ongoing. This has to change. At this point, I'm not entirely against nuking this place and starting over. Meanwhile, reintroducing volunteer based forum moderation deserves serious consideration.



/signed, I have to agree that whilst these forums do have ups and down, lately they do indeed seem to have degraded markedly, I think the ban stick needs to be wielded a bit more heavily.


There is a bit of irony in that the moderation team used to be player volunteers. I think the forums were more hospitable then, not because the current mod team is incompetent (they're not) but because there just isn't enough of them.

The player mod team weren't perfect but they were able to cover the forums 24/7 by dint of being around the world and you can't argue that they didn't love the game and the forums.

Epidemis
Posted - 2008.08.28 18:07:00 - [169]
 

Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker

Personally I think the changes came when the company grew larger and when they ended up having like 200-300 employees.



I'd love to know what those people are actually doing. They're not fixing bugs or programming, that is for sure. My guess is that about 200 of them are 1st level support i.e. copy/pasting the "our logs show nothing" message into petition answers and handling harrassment petitions (that goes really fast).




You mean they actually have 100 people to development? haha! I reckon 2-3 work in total works on the expansion.

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2008.08.28 18:12:00 - [170]
 

Woah, woah, woah... Someone at CCP just linked to something about human factors?

Ok now I've seen everything.

Seriously, hire someone who knows about human factors to look at your interface. Really. All of it.

Regarding the OP: I don't agree with whining about how forums are terrible. Forums are forums. This is what they are. "Nuking" them and remaking them isn't going to change anything. Welcome to the internet.


Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2008.08.28 18:47:00 - [171]
 

Edited by: Pr1ncess Alia on 28/08/2008 18:52:28
responding to the OP (not reading all 6 pages)

yeah, it sucks. i wish we had the CCP of old. the new guys are trying, but even when they try you can tell they are restricted to what they can say.

forum degeneration is a huge problem. we can attribute this to one problem (trolls/general forum ****ting) there are 3 big elements that brought that to eve:
#1 anonymity on the internet (makes it easy and fun to troll)
#2 the ability to post with anything but your main character (god alts were a bad idea, water under the bridge)
#3 BoB and goonswarm (yeah i went there). now don't look at me like that, let me explain...

no really, when i started this game ppl of megacorps (there were no alliances) and even in the early days of alliances, ppl were somewhat careful about how they posted. the guy that brought me into the game told me in the first few days "hey, dont go posting crap on the forums. it makes your corp look bad and they will get ****ed)"

players didn't want to make their group look bad.
that soon shifted into ppl realizing that any publicity is good publicity. ppl like BoB would make taunting threads over and over and over again vs ASCN. this caught on and changed again...

goonswarm came along (SA.com goons) as a sizable group and made it their goal to **** all over the forums. like i said, no they weren't alone, but they did it organized and as a goal. (funny, wonder why they got the reputation of targeting games to ruin them)

so, many ppl were involved, its the community as a whole that made the problem. goonswarm weren't alone and they weren't first. but they are certainly the perfect poster boy.

its elements of the community such as this that makes the forums such a difficult place to manage. so, want to blame the game direction on something, yeah blame ccp.
want to blame communication and forum degeneration on something? well we can only blame ourselves for that one.

the game isn't what it used to be because both the devs are different AND THE COMMUNITY ISN'T WHAT IT USED TO BE. it takes two to dance.

FireFoxx80
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.08.28 19:01:00 - [172]
 

What's wrong with Jade's suggestions? All the give is simple: accountability.

I suspect that under Jade's plans, people could still happily post to non-IC forums (Out of Pod, Technical, etc). And in there, it would be up to improved moderating, to ensure that any IC posts didn't spill out into there.

Equally, I'd look at the prospect of "show this accounts alts" option on the forums. You'd get a lot less alt whines then.

Naomi Halloran
Gallente
Disciples of Night
Dominion of Darkness
Posted - 2008.08.28 19:03:00 - [173]
 

All I'm going to say is this: I'm used to Sony's Fist of Steel when it comes to forum moderation and dev response, I've been putting up with it in its current state since 2002 (and putting up with Sony in general since 1999). This is nothing new. But yes, a little more interaction would be nice.

Jimer Lins
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.08.28 19:07:00 - [174]
 

Originally by: FireFoxx80
What's wrong with Jade's suggestions? All the give is simple: accountability.

I suspect that under Jade's plans, people could still happily post to non-IC forums (Out of Pod, Technical, etc). And in there, it would be up to improved moderating, to ensure that any IC posts didn't spill out into there.

Equally, I'd look at the prospect of "show this accounts alts" option on the forums. You'd get a lot less alt whines then.


Attaching in-game consequences to out-of-game actions is 1) unacceptable, and 2) impossible to implement fairly.

You think the petition queue is long now? Wait until people start getting fined for making a joke that some mod didn't think was funny.

It's never going to happen- and if in some lunatic world it did, most people would abandon the forums or simply use 3rd-party forums. If you think the community's bad now, just try implementing something as heavy-handed and silly as the idea of penalizing people for forum posts. There won't be anyone left to talk to here that's worth the time.

It would, however, be about the single best way to ensure the utter destruction of any semblance of camraderie with the devs, while at the same time causing an epic forum brain-drain. It's not always beer and skittles, but if something like this were implemented, all you'd have left are ****posters who don't care.

Ponderous Thunderstroke
Republic War Machine Industries
Posted - 2008.08.28 19:11:00 - [175]
 

Originally by: Cygnus Zhada
Originally by: Crumplecorn
And there was me thinking the various different forums all had different purposes.

The cornerstone of EVE is the community. So let's nuke it. Right.

The incessant whining is the community. Most of it should be ignored.

And as has been pointed out by others, it's a bigger operation than it used to be, it cannot be as transparent as it used to be.


At the same time, the low signal to noise ratio gets tiresome.



The fix to that is for CCP to start upgrading their forums, or invest in some new ones. They need to get far more robust with software, adding things like the ability to ignore posters, watch threads, sort threads and posts, etc...either they need to move to something like a modified-for-EVE version of phpBB, or bring in some coders to radically change/upgrade the forum software they have now. Because honestly, it's very barebones and needs a lot of buffing up.

sg3s
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.08.28 19:25:00 - [176]
 

Edited by: sg3s on 28/08/2008 19:24:59
Originally by: CCP Atropos
oh hi.


Oh hi :-/ Rolling Eyes

Thats 2 threads, might be a few more arround.

Ponderous Thunderstroke
Republic War Machine Industries
Posted - 2008.08.28 19:37:00 - [177]
 

Edited by: Ponderous Thunderstroke on 28/08/2008 19:37:57
Originally by: FireFoxx80
What's wrong with Jade's suggestions? All the give is simple: accountability.

I suspect that under Jade's plans, people could still happily post to non-IC forums (Out of Pod, Technical, etc). And in there, it would be up to improved moderating, to ensure that any IC posts didn't spill out into there.

Equally, I'd look at the prospect of "show this accounts alts" option on the forums. You'd get a lot less alt whines then.




There is no such thing as accountability when a second account for forum ho'ing, account holder name John Doe, can be made as a trial account, no C/C number, and then kept up with GTC's. Tell me that doesn't happen now, as many, though I wouldn't guess at number or even suggest a majority (yet), players have not only an alt, but a second-account alt.

Tell me I need an activity level to be allowed to post on the forums? Fine, alt account is a trader (because setting up buy/sell orders is oh so hard and takes oh so long). Tell me I need a corp? Sure, no problem, making a corp is easy and cheap. Tell me that my reputation will be ruined? Like that matters to a forum 'ho. Get two friends and enroll their second account traders, make sure everyone flips skills and checks orders once a day, and say bye-bye to the CAOD limitations, make your corp description say you're miners and industrialists and you salute the Gallente flag, there goes your 'alt-corp' designation.

Accountability first requires that responsibility can be assigned without doubt, which you can never do the way the game is designed (especially the part about account registration/payment/upkeep). The only thing we can hope for is that CCP enhances, or replaces the forums with strong tools for each individual user to remove from his or her sight that which they believe to be polluting the joint. Period.

Esu Nahalas
Yote Patrol
Posted - 2008.08.28 19:41:00 - [178]
 

Edited by: Esu Nahalas on 28/08/2008 19:42:08
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
If some Dev goes "I think this is what happens" or "this is what I'd like" no matter what it is and no matter who they are, people act like this is now some giant edict from CCP and that is what is going to happen. Frankly, if I was a Dev, I wouldn't talk to you people either.


This. Many times, this. You forum members (and you know who you are) have no idea how juvenile you appear to an outside observer.

I sent a friend, a potential player, here to the forums saying "it's a cool game, check it out." I was away from a computer that day and didn't know the latest drama mama whinefest had broken out. He laughed in my face the next time I met him. ugh

HenkieBoy
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.08.28 20:49:00 - [179]
 

I think the lack on info what CCP is doing and is going to do is the biggest problem atm. Second will be the lack of communication on the 'why' of the changes.

When the CSM went 'live' the community expected them to pickup where CCP stopped, communication with the community. Only it is impossible for the CSM to know everything what CCP is up to and why they are doing it and thus the CSM also failed in the eyes of the community.

The community does not expect to do what they want but they want to be listened to. Posting 'Please don't stop posting we do listen' in a topic once in a while isn't enough.

Also I like to point out that the community does not know what they want, but they are VERY good at pointing out flaws in the plans you make. The Black ops is a very good example (EVE tournament discussion with a dev about the black ops being flawed).

Locke DieDrake
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.08.28 20:59:00 - [180]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Cygnus Zhada
Originally by: An Anarchyyt

For an "old player" and a self-proclaimed genius, you apparently don't know how poorly IC worked out.


I would happily have several members as moderators; think of Hardin, Winterblink, Verone. People like that.


Absolutely terrible idea. The answer is not in a return to volunteer moderation. Its in making the leaders of in-game corporations and organizations more accountable for the actions of their members.



I can't decide if you are kidding or not.

In all seriousness, I don't want to be responsible for the actions of my corp members. In fact, I disclaim all responsibility for them. They are all adults, and if you have issue with them, it's with them, not me or my corp.

I'm just saying that as a CEO I don't want that responsibility. I assume if you are playing EVE, you are an adult, take some personal responsibility FFS.

And if the players are going to have a real role in guiding the game, it should be from in game, and done by posing elections to the players. The forums should never be more than a waste of time, why? Because they are forums and their only purpose is to waste time. Any real communication should be happening elsewhere, preferably in game.






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