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Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.08.28 10:56:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Grim Mercy
Eh. Faction ammo is better anyway.


Um. Faction < Spike.

Silver Night
Caldari
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2008.08.28 10:57:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Silver Night on 28/08/2008 11:00:36
Well, there is obviously an advantage to the BPO. But the thing is, the advantage is really fairly marginal, and comes at a huge cost. How many production lines could you set up for the cost of a single BPO? A tech 2 BPO is at best a fairly small advantage, like paying billions upon billions to have a single more efficient production line, right?

Plus, the risk, which you mention. Lets say you bought a Cap 2 BPO, and then invention came out. Or a Falcon BPO and they nerf ECM. Vagabond BPO and nanos are nerfed. That flexibility to invention is a real advantage, because you can leverage the FotM crazes.

Edit: I think it is also a misconception that a Tech 2 BPO is the easiest way to more Tech 2 BPOs. While you can certainly use your profits that way, there are many activities which are much higher profit. Moon mining for example, or trading (if you are good at it). You can do that and then get a BPO not because it is highly profitable, but because it is a low maintenance way of bringing in ISK comparatively. People do the same thing with capital ship and cap ship component BPOs, copying them mostly. Tech 2 BPOs simply aren't that high profit.

Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2008.08.28 12:35:00 - [63]
 

People who keep spewing this BS that T2 BPO's aren't more profitable than invention are so far from the truth that I don't think they've ever invented at all.

Invention does not produce a good ME BPC unless you sped big bucks or hours farming plexes to get the items you need to get a decent ME, and even then you are sacrificing how many runs your BPC is for a slightly better ME.

T2 BPO owners, can research them for better ME, never have to buy anything to make them better and never have a chance of failure at producing a BPC.

Therefore, when they do produce a BPC and make the ships/modules from them, they have already saved so much more ISK than the inventors that they can afford to undercut the inventors and still profit.

I know this cause I ran a small invention outfit for a couple of months, and breaking even was about the best I could do without owning a few top of the line moons, which I don't.

Noir Seroc
Caldari
Sectron
Posted - 2008.08.28 13:40:00 - [64]
 

Yupp evil T2 bpo holders, first they form cartels to milk the rest of the players out of their hard earned isk and now they are suppressing honest inventors, cheating em out of their deserved profits YARRRR!!!

As an owner of a few T2 bpo`s I would like to protest that nobody invited me into one of those cartels pre-invention. Other T2 bpo holders must have been left uninvited as well, otherwise I can`t explain why every now and then somebody was underbidding me in steps of half a mil for EANM II`s back when the module was still worth a few mil for example no problem though, back then you just bought em up or traders did and resold em.

All kidding aside, truth is with invention there are a lot more out there which did and do senseless undercutting, in hope of selling their stuff fast. But usually not fast enough, so other traders/inventors/bpo builders undercut by .01 isk or more.
In addition nobody will clean the market by buying heaps of cheap T2 Gear (unless it`s idiotically cheap, eg near buy orders). Hardly any ppl out there with lotsa cash & foolish enough to buy into a still declining T2 market, where inventors could swarm one in relative short time.
Rinse and repeat and you have the answer why we (inventors & T2 bpo holders) managed to drop T2 prices so fast, shortly above inventors production cost in some instances.

Think I`m talking nonsense, believe that without those pesky T2 bpo holders you could make a fortune in a short period with invention? Nothing holding you back, go ahead and invent stuff for which there are no T2 bpo`s ingame, make billions and buy T2 bpo`s Laughing

------

Oh and before I get blamed not knowing anything bout invention, did plenty of it while it was still worth my time, but same goes for production from my unfair ohsopwnish t2 bpo`s, those are collecting dust now until we will hit a shortage on datacores or something.
And in my case it`s not the manufacturing/inventing itself which is tiresome, it`s the constant tracking of the market to adjust prices in order to sell anything at all which made it unprofitable in comparison to time spend.

ShardowRhino
Caldari
Torque Theory
Posted - 2008.08.28 13:43:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
Edited by: Nadarius Chrome on 28/08/2008 04:29:30
But manufacturing from the BPO is still cheaper than negative ME BPCs, right?

edit: Why else would someone still be willing to spend 40bn on an EANM2 BPO?


IT MUST BE ENVY!!!!!!!

HAHAHAH......i had to say it,hopefully before someone actually SERIOUSLY said it.LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2008.08.28 13:56:00 - [66]
 

TBH I'd rather see moons reworked.

Noir Seroc
Caldari
Sectron
Posted - 2008.08.28 14:44:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Noir Seroc on 29/08/2008 18:21:28
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
Edited by: Nadarius Chrome on 28/08/2008 04:29:30
But manufacturing from the BPO is still cheaper than negative ME BPCs, right?

edit: Why else would someone still be willing to spend 40bn on an EANM2 BPO?


WOW missed that one the 1st time ... know any buyers @40bn?

WTS Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II bpo for 40bn, drop me a mail ingame.

Since I've received no eve-mails 'till now, I've decided to handle this differntly ...

Thanks for the info Nadarius, some iskies heading your way.

Rimsa Orion
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2008.08.28 16:25:00 - [68]
 

Does anyone hold an answer to the ORIGINAL questions of this thread?

ArrowHow many T2 BPO's were put in the game total?
ArrowHow many of each type?
ArrowWill CCP humor us and do an inventory on how many are left?

New Questions

ArrowWill there be a T3 in our future?
ArrowHow will these be distributed?
ArrowWill CCP post publicly what the criteria will be to be a part of the lottery?

These are my burning questions. Over the years I am positive that many of the T2 BPO's have been lost due to players leaving EvE, destroyed or simply trashed by mistake.

If these questions can be answered it will give CCP some insight of the T2 Market. If the information is posted publicly I am sure everyone would be surprised with the results.

The issue here is not who has them, who wants them or ENVY. This is a fact finding thread.

diabolic clone
Amarr
Anomaly Collective
Posted - 2008.08.28 19:52:00 - [69]
 

I do not see how the affor mentioned initial investment of a BPO matters given the frequency, ease, non-counterable, low risk activities of scamming, GTC and character sales.
An honest player ligitimately playing for isk to buy a BPO is more of an exception than employed meta tactics and obsceres the effort put into getting the item and how long it takes them to recoup the price they payed for it, if they made a bad investment sucks for them they knew what they were getting themselves into buyting the item if they wanted to make more profit off it than they spent.

T2 BPO's are cool for the people that have them and whoever buys from them, it's nice they are around at any rate.

Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Posted - 2008.08.29 01:57:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Noir Seroc
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
Edited by: Nadarius Chrome on 28/08/2008 04:29:30
But manufacturing from the BPO is still cheaper than negative ME BPCs, right?

edit: Why else would someone still be willing to spend 40bn on an EANM2 BPO?


WOW missed that one the 1st time ... know any buyers @40bn?

WTS Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II bpo for 40bn, drop me a mail ingame.


Please get in touch with Ancorehraq sis from this thread. where he posted the following.

Originally by: Ancorehraq sis
If, for some reason, Black Steel fails at life *and* you can wait two days for me to collect the money, I'll take it at buyout :)


My commission is a mere 1%, and can be transferred to my wallet at any stage. RazzLaughing

Sophia Germain
Fluxion
Posted - 2008.08.29 07:47:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Sophia Germain on 29/08/2008 07:49:38
I'm going to put some thoughts of mine about this issue into words as honestly as possible.

I've been in Eve since 2003, and have won 4 T2 ship BPOs through the lottery. Ever since I got the first BPO, I never had to mine, rat or do missions again for ISK, and I've also been able to pay for my multiple accounts with GTCs that I bought with ISK ever since GTCs first came into the game. By playing smart and with a lot of patience (not selling the BPOs right away but instead producing from them for years), I've managed to become quite wealthy. Lots of resellers are still making money from the BPOs by buying them cheap and reselling them for large profits. This behavior, from the point of view of the original seller, is possibly fueled by the fear of T2 BPOs disappearing from the game.

Do I feel the BPOs give me an unfair advantage compared to new players? Yes, they most definitely do. They are a major stepping stone for wealth, the value of which seems only to increase judging by the majority of recent T2 BPO sales prices. The situation where one invests the profit of several years into a T2 BPO might be different, but for those of us who got BPOs from the lottery, it's always been a win-win -situation. Fortunately for me, my luck eliminated the need for any grinding in my gaming, and I can go on playing for years without doing a thing to raise more ISK.

This is just my perspective on how I see things. It's not meant as an insult or a showoff post, but rather as a reflection of how I see T2 BPOs have affected my gaming experience. It will be interesting to see how and if CCP decide to change T2 BPOs somehow. Time will tell, but until then, some of them still are a major cash cow for the fortunate few.


Rimsa Orion
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2008.08.29 17:44:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Rimsa Orion on 29/08/2008 17:45:16
Originally by: Sophia Germain
Edited by: Sophia Germain on 29/08/2008 07:49:38
I'm going to put some thoughts of mine about this issue into words as honestly as possible.

I've been in Eve since 2003, and have won 4 T2 ship BPOs through the lottery. Ever since I got the first BPO, I never had to mine, rat or do missions again for ISK, and I've also been able to pay for my multiple accounts with GTCs that I bought with ISK ever since GTCs first came into the game. By playing smart and with a lot of patience (not selling the BPOs right away but instead producing from them for years), I've managed to become quite wealthy. Lots of resellers are still making money from the BPOs by buying them cheap and reselling them for large profits. This behavior, from the point of view of the original seller, is possibly fueled by the fear of T2 BPOs disappearing from the game.

Do I feel the BPOs give me an unfair advantage compared to new players? Yes, they most definitely do. They are a major stepping stone for wealth, the value of which seems only to increase judging by the majority of recent T2 BPO sales prices. The situation where one invests the profit of several years into a T2 BPO might be different, but for those of us who got BPOs from the lottery, it's always been a win-win -situation. Fortunately for me, my luck eliminated the need for any grinding in my gaming, and I can go on playing for years without doing a thing to raise more ISK.

This is just my perspective on how I see things. It's not meant as an insult or a showoff post, but rather as a reflection of how I see T2 BPOs have affected my gaming experience. It will be interesting to see how and if CCP decide to change T2 BPOs somehow. Time will tell, but until then, some of them still are a major cash cow for the fortunate few.




Thank you for the honest and objectiveness of your experience with T2 BPO's.

Syringe
Incura
Posted - 2008.08.29 17:55:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: Syringe on 29/08/2008 17:55:58
Why does this even an issue?

If you were around back in the day and you happened to land a t2 BPO, fine - keep it, those things were friggin hard to get. Before invention, they were awesome cause you could jack up the price to like 60000% and people HAD to pay it cause there was not really any competition (I think there was what, one t2 cap recharger BPO running production?). With invention, it's just kind of a convenient method for the people that got those BPOs way back (i.e. have paid more in subscription fees that you *wink wink*) to run a production line.

Short version: stfu

//no, I don't own any t2 BPOs

TerrorBaBy
Nearly Feared
Posted - 2008.08.29 18:01:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: TerrorBaBy on 29/08/2008 18:03:53
Originally by: mineforman
CCP will never release data about that because I bet the lion share of Bpo2 are in BOB's hands!Wink


Actually, an old corp of mine (not in BoB) had a collection of over 130 T2 BPOs including several command ships and HACs, a single recon and a multitude of modules. Most were won by members and the proceeds were used to buy more for the corp whilst providing base price T2 ships for members.

(No, not a previous corp on this character, I'm not that stupid...Wink).

This was pre-invention.

malfoy
Posted - 2008.08.29 18:03:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: malfoy on 29/08/2008 18:05:25
Edited by: malfoy on 29/08/2008 18:04:07
wtb a t2 bpo :) rofl im back from four years and i was right. sad.


edit. people were hand picked imo.

Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Posted - 2008.08.29 18:14:00 - [76]
 

There are lot of points that are fine and valid in this thread, but pretty much all are beside my point. If CCP took it upon themselves to remove something that had no effect on the game whatsoever (highsec capitals) on the basis that nobody else could get those things, then they should finish the list and remove T2 BPOs. Period. If it rattles eve market then go ahead. Id like some of that.

Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
Posted - 2008.08.29 19:45:00 - [77]
 

Quote:
If CCP took it upon themselves to remove something that had no effect on the game whatsoever (highsec capitals) on the basis that nobody else could get those things, then they should finish the list and remove T2 BPOs. Period.


You realise they reversed that and gave them back ?

Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
Posted - 2008.08.29 19:52:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Rimsa Orion
Edited by: Rimsa Orion on 29/08/2008 17:45:16
Originally by: Sophia Germain
Edited by: Sophia Germain on 29/08/2008 07:49:38
I'm going to put some thoughts of mine about this issue into words as honestly as possible.

I've been in Eve since 2003, and have won 4 T2 ship BPOs through the lottery. Ever since I got the first BPO, I never had to mine, rat or do missions again for ISK, and I've also been able to pay for my multiple accounts with GTCs that I bought with ISK ever since GTCs first came into the game. By playing smart and with a lot of patience (not selling the BPOs right away but instead producing from them for years), I've managed to become quite wealthy. Lots of resellers are still making money from the BPOs by buying them cheap and reselling them for large profits. This behavior, from the point of view of the original seller, is possibly fueled by the fear of T2 BPOs disappearing from the game.

Do I feel the BPOs give me an unfair advantage compared to new players? Yes, they most definitely do. They are a major stepping stone for wealth, the value of which seems only to increase judging by the majority of recent T2 BPO sales prices. The situation where one invests the profit of several years into a T2 BPO might be different, but for those of us who got BPOs from the lottery, it's always been a win-win -situation. Fortunately for me, my luck eliminated the need for any grinding in my gaming, and I can go on playing for years without doing a thing to raise more ISK.

This is just my perspective on how I see things. It's not meant as an insult or a showoff post, but rather as a reflection of how I see T2 BPOs have affected my gaming experience. It will be interesting to see how and if CCP decide to change T2 BPOs somehow. Time will tell, but until then, some of them still are a major cash cow for the fortunate few.




Thank you for the honest and objectiveness of your experience with T2 BPO's.



I don't disagree, pre-invention T2 BPOs were a huge money tap. Now they are not, you will make far more inventing each month if you are smart about it then you will with the most valuable BPO out there.

There are a TON of things in this game that have led to players gaining isk with relative ease. T2 BPOs pre-invention, 10/10 complex's, dysprosium moons etc. The isk/effort is ridiculously large. The difference is that once the damage is done, it's done. You don't remove the advantage without back-dating all the isk and removing that too. Most of the original T2 BPO owners sold their BPOs and you're left with a heap of people that might have bought a BPO for 70 billion hard earned isk and have made back 5-6 billion so far. What you're left with is the reverse, people that did all the work so that others don't have to who bought things with a 5-10 year payback and the only hope of it being a sane decision is that the asset itself would appreciate.

Quote:
Will there be a T3 in our future?


Yes.

Quote:
How will these be distributed?


No BPOs, invention ONLY !

Quote:
Will CCP post publicly what the criteria will be to be a part of the lottery?


No lottery, invention ONLY !

Quote:
I know this cause I ran a small invention outfit for a couple of months, and breaking even was about the best I could do


I have made over 40 billion isk from invention \o/ 4b of that this month. If you could only break even then you were doing it wrong, you can't just invent 'anything' and expect to make a profit, you have to calculate out what all your costs are going to be vs what the likely sale price is likely to be and then invent. It is not something you can do with one product forever, where the profit is changes week to week, it requires SKILL. A T2 BPO owner can't even close to compete because they can't change the item they are making, so if the profit on their item falls, they will lose isk. Inventing I can just switch to the 'new' best item. Idea

Gort
Minmatar
Federation of Freedom Fighters
En Garde
Posted - 2008.08.29 20:17:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Gort on 29/08/2008 20:18:14
The day I finally leave this game will be the day I read one whine too many and realize it will never end.

Don't tell me. That day's not here yet and I'm still whistling past the graveyard.

There are some very thoughtful and well-informed people commenting here, scattered amongst the idiot whiners.

Edit: It's a game, stupid.

G

Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
Posted - 2008.08.29 21:32:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Grim Mercy
Eh. Faction ammo is better anyway.


Um. Faction < Spike.


Spike = ranged ammo = has purpose, some drawback for extra ability.
Javelin = high damage ammo (16.7% more than antimatter) + drawbacks
Faction Antimatter = high damage (15% more than standard antimatter) + no drawback

Thus you may say Javelin < Faction < Spike (though in reality spike and faction will be used for different situations) The faction will be a direct replacement for Javelin.

The same is true for all T2 ammo types, there is a semi useful range one which is worth using, and a high damage one which always had drawbacks making it a debatable item to use before, but now faction ammo is infinitly available, it means it's definitely not worth using. Not worth using = low demand = prices fall below invention cost. If it was worth using it'd be worth inventing.



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