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MasterCeremony
Posted - 2009.12.30 08:58:00 - [151]
 

/signed
But for a really awesome t2 destroyer i would absolutely LOVE to see..

DESTROYER COMMAND SHIPS

Reason being is that it would offer a whole new meaning to small gang warfare. A nice cheap cs that works with small gangs of frigates effectively. Of course if the ship were to use gang mods they may have to have their own gang mod for the smaller version, or perhaps not since blowing up a destroyer cs would be easier than a normal bc cs.

I thought i had something else to add...anyways, SIGN FOR T2 CS DESTROYERS! :D

Swish3r
Posted - 2009.12.30 10:50:00 - [152]
 

What do people do in battleships?
Mission.
What did CCP give the t2 battleships?
Damage bonus and Salvage bonus.

What do people do in destroyers?
Salvage, or go around being a noob.

Pretty similar relationship.

Combat Salvagers - rank 5 (same as interdictors)
Requirements - destroyers V, Spaceship command IV, Salvaging V?
Skill bonus: 10% damage and 5% access difficulty per level.
Destroyers skill bonus: 10% optimal range and 20% tractor beam range & speed.

Catalyst hull - (8/3/4) (4 guns, 2 tractors, 2 salvagers, mwd, cap booster, web, 2x sarII, 1 eanmII, explosive resist II)
Cormorant hull - (8/5/2) (4 rockets, 2 tractors, 2 salvagers, mwd, cap booster, deadspace sb, em resist II, boost amp II, dc II, overdrive II)
Thrasher hull - (8/4/3) (4 guns, 2 tractors, 2 salvagers, mwd, medium shield extender II, 2x InvulnII, 2xoverdriveII, dcII)
Coercer hull - (8/2/5) (4 guns, 2 tractors, 2 salvagers, mwd, cap booster, 2x sarII, 2 eanmII, dcII)

they would each get a pretty decent cap buff, AF base resists, and around 500m3 cargo capacity.

Xtover
Suicide Kings
Posted - 2009.12.30 12:06:00 - [153]
 

Originally by: Swish3r
What do people do in battleships?
Mission.
What did CCP give the t2 battleships?
Damage bonus and Salvage bonus.

What do people do in destroyers?
Salvage, or go around being a noob.

Pretty similar relationship.



NO NO NO NO NO NO

They are used as salvagers because of the speed and slot layout. If it's not broke, don't fix it! Destroyers were out long before salvage.

Destroyers are currently anti-frigate ships, and light interdictors.

They have a PVE bonus and it works FINE.

Destroyers lack a PvP bonus currently, as AFs do just as good of a job, and HICs make dictors obsolete.

on the T1 level, with the exception of a CPU and PG bonus, they are fine. Heavy guns and a thin hull.

on the T2 level they should reflect what the real life destroyers did, which is to find subs (eve eqv= stealth/covops)

click my avatar and you'll find posts on my suggestion for a hunter destroyer, and how to do it without becoming too overpowered.

Hoodat Bee
Posted - 2009.12.30 13:17:00 - [154]
 

I like the command ship idea for destroyers, it definitely fits the concept of them being the top dogs of the frigate class world. I'd also go with the "half guns +100% damage" idea so that it has room to fit everything on that tiny frame. Give it a reasonable tank and it'd be good for launch.

Although, to be honest, I still think fixing the t1 destroyers should come first.

Torothanax
Posted - 2009.12.31 05:49:00 - [155]
 

I've always liked the idea of a mini command ship. I'd rather not see that as the focus of t2 destroyers though. I'd like to see a destroyer that can actually stay on the field of battle for more then a few seconds. I wouldn't mind a role bonus that allows the fitting of a "Command Processor" for free on all destroyers. Then players would have the option or fitting one command link (destroyer sized) at the cost of one mid and one highslot plus whatever cpu and powergrid req's the command link had. Or make it even simpler and let all destroyers fit a mini command link that has reduced capabilities compared to the normal ones.

I like the idea of using a destroyer hull to hunt down cloaked ships as well, but I get tired of people trying to bastardize the entire ship class to do it. Retool the interdictor, or add a second interdictor with similar setup and probe/probe launcher bonuses. Destroyers aren't the only ship that should be able to hunt cloaked ships. It should be a module most ships can fit, such as a probe from an expanded probe launcher. For real life hunting of subs, navies use passive listening posts anchored to the ocean floor. They use frigates, destroyers, cruisers and other subs. They active ping the area of opperation (the grid in game) if they believe a sub is in the area. They use sonar dipping helicoptors (drones?). They drop disposable sonar bouys from aircraft (probes). They launch anti sub missiles (fof missiles?) and depth charges (smart bombs? Bombs?) from any of these platforms when they locate an enemy sub.

Subs are hard to find if thier crew know what they are doing, but they are far from invisible or impossible to detect. While were at it, when do we get t2 recon probes? Probes that are cloaked themselves but can only be launched from t2 expanded (or some other specialized) launchers.

The point is: destroyers as a class should be combat focused, not the "dump your specialization here" class. They shouldn't have a massive tank, but they should have some survivability on the battle field, especially T2 destoryes. Frigates are supposed to fear them, not laugh them off. I think a significantly smaller sig radius would go a long way for t1 destroyers, maybe a small speed increase as well. You'll recall they were indirectly nerfed (harshly) with the nano nerf. Or maybe increased pg/cpu plus a slot or two on a tier 2 version.

Interdictors and the destroyers we have need some love. There should probably be a tier 2 version for each race. There should be a combat focus t2 hull as well. Command, salvage, cloak hunting, and whatever else version would be cool to, but I say that's icing on the cake, shouldn't be the main focus.

Sunset Rogue
Posted - 2009.12.31 06:09:00 - [156]
 

Tech2, Tier2 destroyer
no weapon hardpoints
range bonus to small remote armor/shield
50m3 bandwidth
+1 drone controlled per frigate level.

Optional/suggested penalty: -50% damage and hitpoints of medium scout drones. (encourages the use of 10x light drones instead of 5x mediums)

Reine Jacotey
Posted - 2009.12.31 10:20:00 - [157]
 

Edited by: Reine Jacotey on 31/12/2009 10:24:20
Edited by: Reine Jacotey on 31/12/2009 10:22:40
I haven't had time read most of this thread, so sorry if this idea has been posted already... [Edit: apparently I only had to look up two posts Rolling EyesRazz]

In real life naval history, the ships we now call "destroyers" started their existence prior to WWI as "torpedo boat destroyers" and were specialized at taking out fast torpedo boats. As torpedo boats evolved the ability to submerge and surface torpedo boats were essentially replaced by submarines, "torpedo boat destroyers" became simply known as "destroyers" with a primary mission as anti-submarine escorts. Covert ops ships (covops frigates, recons, and especially stealth bombers) are EVE's submarines.

With all that in mind, I'd love to see t2 destroyers be specialized in finding and engaging nearby cloaked ships in a quasi "anti-submarine" role... probably through a new scanning module (high or mid slot) that only these types of t2 destroyers can fit.

Bloody2k
Gallente
ZERO T0LERANCE
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.31 15:06:00 - [158]
 

My Idea of a true T2 Destroyer as a new Role, is a "Head Hunter Ship"

As the answer to speed tanks and for POD
cracking.


- fast ship with webber immunity
- no delay for lock on POD`S if security security standing is below -5.0
- and a small (5-10m) nearly or undestroyable cargocapsule for
important things

If your ship is blowing up this cargocapsule will be present for
24h in space.

Meeko Atari
Posted - 2009.12.31 16:42:00 - [159]
 

I want a cheap ship that can fit cruiser weapons on a frig sized hull, as fast as an interceptor has the best tracking in game, can field a good tank and is immune to all forms of E-War. Rolling Eyes

Bloody2k
Gallente
ZERO T0LERANCE
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2009.12.31 16:49:00 - [160]
 

Hoar Laughing the best idea ever...ingenious, helpful and very profound. ugh

Meeko Atari
Posted - 2009.12.31 16:53:00 - [161]
 

Originally by: Bloody2k
Hoar Laughing the best idea ever...ingenious, helpful and very profound. ugh


There is already a T2 Destroyer in Eve you may not like it, But it is in game.

TYR3L
Posted - 2009.12.31 17:04:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: Reine Jacotey
Edited by: Reine Jacotey on 31/12/2009 10:24:20
Edited by: Reine Jacotey on 31/12/2009 10:22:40
I haven't had time read most of this thread, so sorry if this idea has been posted already... [Edit: apparently I only had to look up two posts Rolling EyesRazz]

In real life naval history, the ships we now call "destroyers" started their existence prior to WWI as "torpedo boat destroyers" and were specialized at taking out fast torpedo boats. As torpedo boats evolved the ability to submerge and surface torpedo boats were essentially replaced by submarines, "torpedo boat destroyers" became simply known as "destroyers" with a primary mission as anti-submarine escorts. Covert ops ships (covops frigates, recons, and especially stealth bombers) are EVE's submarines.

With all that in mind, I'd love to see t2 destroyers be specialized in finding and engaging nearby cloaked ships in a quasi "anti-submarine" role... probably through a new scanning module (high or mid slot) that only these types of t2 destroyers can fit.


Finally, someone has mentioned this ^^

Also like a previous post by someone that suggested the T1 racial destroyers (drone boats, missile, etc.). Would really like to see a number of other additions to the destroyer class. The more destroyer variety (small ships in general), the better. The preference would be to keep them mostly T1 and relatively inexpensive. However, since this thread is about T2 destroyers...

- T2 destroyer: There's at least one person in this thread who may have mentioned his desire to see this.

- Fix of current T1 destroyers: Functional in a variety of roles.

- Stealth hunter: As quoted above. Fills the traditional role of destroyers, as anti-sub, convoy escort boat. Historically these ships acted in squads, and this should be true in EVE as well. Not sure if these should be T2.

- Salvage boat (T1): Salvaging bonuses. Extra cargo?

Mya ElleTerego
Amarr
The Hull Miners Union
Posted - 2009.12.31 20:00:00 - [163]
 

Edited by: Mya ElleTerego on 31/12/2009 20:03:06
in the anti cloak idea, you could set them up to have a smart bomb 10000% range bonus, 1 small faction smartbomb it could fit or maybe lol fit a medium one with RCU And ACR rigs. DPS wise this wont do anything, but with the range it will decloak people up to 50 -60 km away from you. Thus helping dramatically with the new silly stealth bomber dd crap we see in large scale fights.

I would love to see that. It wont get rid of afk cloakers or find people that ninja rat, but it will help dramatically for catching stealth bombers or other cloaky things. Make sure its dps is crap tho, so its not a solo gate camp mobile.

With a small smart bomb it should be able to max skilled reach out to 20km, with a medium 40-60 ish.

I know the bears wont like this idea, because it will be dangerous to their blockade runners, but it will only effect 0.0 really, and tbh you guys have JF, cyno beacons, jump bridges etc. Use them. In lowsec you would uncloak people but youd get bbqed by gate guns, and your sec status will go into the toilet.

Meeko Atari
Posted - 2010.01.01 00:16:00 - [164]
 

How about ( as someone else suggested in some other destroyer thread ) allow the T2 destroyer ( interdictor ) to drop a Web Bubble?

It would not be able to be placed within a certain range of a warp disruption bubble.


Ex Caliburr
Minmatar
Blue Republic
Posted - 2010.01.01 02:01:00 - [165]
 

hehe, just started a similar thread, but this one is better. How about, then, as a role they specialize in killing fighters/fighter-bombers? they would have a role in cap ship fights then..I guess it would be the anti-drone role on steroids..

Meeko Atari
Posted - 2010.01.03 18:22:00 - [166]
 

What about Pirate Destroyers, like angel, serpentis...etc versions?

The models are already in game!

EadTaes
Minmatar
d o o m
Posted - 2010.01.04 15:52:00 - [167]
 

Hehe people have been asking for true T2 combat destroyers for a long time. And for salvaging destroyer since the 2nd day salvage existed.

Wish CCP would get with the program on destroyers already.

Spugg Galdon
Posted - 2010.01.16 16:17:00 - [168]
 

bump

d3vo
Posted - 2010.01.16 18:12:00 - [169]
 

Current T2 Destroyers aren't really "destroyers"...which it should be. I disagree with any relation to being a command ship type as well. It should be a damage boat. Amplify the current use of T1 Destroyers as all gank, no tank.

DrDooma
Posted - 2010.01.18 03:12:00 - [170]
 

We already have Assault ships that should perform this role. The problem is not all of them are cabled of doing this.

Torothanax
Posted - 2010.02.03 06:24:00 - [171]
 

Yeah, but assault ships aren't designed for an anti frigate role, and the t1 destroyers barely stand up to most t1 frigates now a days.

Yon Krum
The Knights Templar
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2010.02.03 07:29:00 - [172]
 

Edited by: Yon Krum on 03/02/2010 07:33:39
Here I was just looking at the ideas forum and thinking "we need more destroyer topics"--seriously, no snark, I love the ship.

There's a lot of specialized things you could do with the destroyer hull, but let's set that aside for the moment to address my pet peeve with EVE ships:

There is no interceptor counter! (And to a lesser extent no Assault Ship counter.)

Sure, interceptors die all the time to fleet fire, silly things around BS with neuts, etc. That's fine, we know they can die, but there's no ship that is designed to do what the destroyer should have: kill light tacklers. We've discussed how frail and ineffective the T1 destroyer is at it's "job", so moving on....

What should a Combat Destroyer do?

1) Use light guns in quantity (I've suggested 6, and ditching the ROF penalty.)

2) Have either lots of speed (to tackle extremely fast ships), propulsion jamming range (tackle, again), or lots of range (to put damage on target long enough within interceptor engagement envelopes). --I favor the later: range, as the other options show up on EAS and Recons, and Interceptors themselves.

3) Have T2 resists and HP increases, to defend against attack by light guns/missiles.

4) Have lowered sig radii, to defend against attacks by medium and large weapons.

5) Have increased fitting flexibility, enabling the ship to use the top-tier small guns without rigging or fitting mods.

6) Have the usual, T2 slightly increased number of fitting slots (meds/lows as appropriate).

7) Have greatly increased base lockrange and scanres.

This would result in a ship (I won't bother giving bonuses, as CCP will determine those) that uses the equivalent of 8-9 top-tier small guns, tanks better across the board but in different ways, remains as slow as current destroyers but makes up for it in 2x+ range/lockrange.

The disadvantages of the destroyer remain: use of multiple expensive guns, higher ammo use, higher cap use when firing, relatively slow speed, higher base ship cost, and relatively higher damage from larger-sized weapons -- versus assault frigates. Such a space-superiority ship would not be what you'd want to use to tackle, but it would effectively complicate efforts by frigates to harass or tackle itself/its fleet.

I'd love to see an anti-stealth destroyer hull, but the above would fill an (slightly) even more urgent hole in EVE. Ideally can we have both? Plus citadel torps? :)

--Krum

[Edit: at one point months ago I did attempt to stat a set of such ships for the Assembly Hall, and if you're interested you may do the search to find them.]

Foraven
Gallente
Posted - 2010.02.03 18:21:00 - [173]
 

/signed

I love my catalyst, but i find it sad it's only great at salvaging and missioning. I would gladly trade cargo space for more hp and better firepower...

That said, i would like as much variety of destroyers as we have of frigates/cruisers. T2 variants should be aimed at fighting t2 frigates or cruisers. There has been a lot of good suggestions here from assault gunboats to droneboats. There is room for more ships there and i don't mind if it take some glory from other ships in the game. I want my invested destroyer skill points be more useful than they are now.

Torothanax
Posted - 2010.03.11 15:32:00 - [174]
 

Destroyer love please.

Torothanax
Posted - 2010.04.01 10:45:00 - [175]
 

Ditto

Xtover
Suicide Kings
Posted - 2010.04.01 12:31:00 - [176]
 

Edited by: Xtover on 01/04/2010 12:37:41
Originally by: Meeko Atari
How about ( as someone else suggested in some other destroyer thread ) allow the T2 destroyer ( interdictor ) to drop a Web Bubble?

It would not be able to be placed within a certain range of a warp disruption bubble.




web bubble + dictor bubble = horrible idea.


But to add:

T1 destroyers need more PG, more tank- not a whole lot just a tiny bit.

They should have a web and scram (about 100%) bonus (so pretty much a 20km warp scram to shut off intys MWD.

They need at least 2 mids, the coercer can't catch crap with only one mid slot.

Nick Bison
Gallente
Bison Industrial Inc
Posted - 2010.04.01 16:19:00 - [177]
 

Originally by: Calypso Nadie
Why not make T2 destroyers fill a niche not currently available... Let them fill the traditional role of destroyers, that of anti-aircraft boats.

Give them a 5% bonus to tracking speed per lvl
also perhaps a 5% boost per lvl to defender missle rate of fire

Change the high slots to allow 3-4 missle rigs

This would fill a role of a drone destroyer/missle interceptor, ideal for what destroyers are made to do.


I like this. Perhaps with slight modifications.

T2 AAA Destroyer. Hi slots a mix of gun/missile
Be able to "assign" yourself to defend ship "x" as you can drones ... the boat would then follow (formation) with this hi value ship and do it's best to pick off drones, frigates and missiles that attack it ...


Torothanax
Posted - 2010.04.09 06:59:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: Xtover
web bubble + dictor bubble = horrible idea.

But to add:

T1 destroyers need more PG, more tank- not a whole lot just a tiny bit.

They should have a web and scram (about 100%) bonus (so pretty much a 20km warp scram to shut off intys MWD.

They need at least 2 mids, the coercer can't catch crap with only one mid slot.


20 km web and scram won't happen. Pretty much guarantee that. I totally agree on the 2 mids minimum though. 1 mid is like WTF? Or give all ships one "tackle" only slot.

Torothanax
Posted - 2010.04.15 03:56:00 - [179]
 

Who else loves destroyers?

Tornicks
Caldari
The Green Cross
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2010.04.16 17:51:00 - [180]
 

Edited by: Tornicks on 16/04/2010 17:52:11
I support the idea of T II gunboat destroyers that last more than a frigate/T I destroyer and serve an improved role of a counter-frigate (could be a counter-interceptor specifically).


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