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blankseplocked Eve RPG class enhancement idea :D
 
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Sq7
Posted - 2008.08.23 13:21:00 - [1]
 

Hiya

The idea I want to propose would have a fairly significant effect on the game so I do not think it would easily find it's way into the mechanics, but I think it is an awsome idea none the less.

I love RPG games. And one thing that is central to RPGs in general is that different classes tend to have inherent abilities which hugely affect the way you play the game with them.

For example in your typical RPG a thief might inherently have the sneak and lockpick abilities.

This type of thing is sorely missed in Eve I think.

I propose that to give diffferent classes of characters more "personality" in Eve each one should get an ability.

For example: One of my characters is an Intaki. His chosen career is industry. His ancestry is reborn. And his specialization is prospector.

Now in general this is a very nice character as far as I am concerned, but it would be great if he could do something special. For example: He could have the inherent ability to through sheer willpower pull an object to him in space like a tractor beam would.

That is just an example. It could be a kind of smartbomb ability for a warrior class again.

And of course it would be great if the ability could be augmented by your attributes. The ability I proposed for my intaki-Industry-Reborn-prospector could have it's range aumented by intelligence and it's speed augmented by willpower. The warrior's bomb could have it's range augmented by perception and it's damage by willpower again.

Of course there would be nothing wrong with passive abilities for some character types either.

I think you will all agree that this would be awesome.

Now the second part of my idea goes like this.

Special abilities for T2 Ships as well...

I proposed that if it is implimented then two new icons should appear above the ship console at the bottom of the screen. One for the character ability and one for the T2 ship ability.

Let me know what you think ;)


Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2008.08.23 13:42:00 - [2]
 

Ghey...

All the characters are Human.

So tell me, when's the last time YOU demonstrated some special ability? Grown razor sharp claws, or shot energy from your eyes, or teleported around the world?

The secret to Eve is that everyone is just like everyone else. When you chose your race and upbringing, it was just that. What your characters outlook on life would be like, and what training they'd received initially. But that doesn't mean that your particular character would never be able to fight as well as a born and raised soldier. It just means that they'd have to train up for it.


Sorry to say... but Eve isn't your "usual RPG". Very Happy

Sq7
Posted - 2008.08.23 13:49:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Marcus Gideon
Ghey...

Sorry to say... but Eve isn't your "usual RPG". Very Happy



true, true... And I love Eve as it is in any case. I'm actually surprised by how few players I have spoken to find he idea attractive.

About the human side. I dunno. Is it really so far fetched to presume that humanity might one day attain a level of conscious mastery over the forces which determine the nature of the universe? I mean how does fleet augmentation work? The ability to make al ships in ur fleet fly faster for one thing... I don't think the concept is in such stark contrast to some of the things you find in eve already.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2008.08.23 14:03:00 - [4]
 

It'd be interesting to have the character creation choices more of an impact beyond attributes and starting skills, though please no *****-envy-I-want-magic-too-PSI-special-kapow-abilities.

Giving everyone a times one or times two skill bonus to a activity pertaining each of the bloodlines, ancestries and careers would give those choices more significance.

The only reason, albeit a strong one, not to add such bonuses would be the increased stat inflation, which is in some areas already an issue.

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2008.08.23 15:21:00 - [5]
 

Why?

Like "normal" humans, our characters are free to train anything they want and be proficient in anything they desire. Why would they be more adept at something than another person with teh same abilities and access to the same training? This isn't a fantasy game where the rules force you down a single path. It is a sandbox, you can do/be who you want.

Take me for example. In game I am Minmatar and Amarr spec'd, even though I am Caldari by birth. I can actually fly a Raven, but was able to fly a Phoon MONTHS prior to that. They only reason I can put T2 equipment on that Raven is because of my Minmatar training. Why would I be racially tied to a Raven or Rokh?

IRL I have had 5 distinct career paths, each considerably different than the other. I had no advantage by birth or lineage to ANY of them and why would I?

Space Wanderer
Posted - 2008.08.23 15:59:00 - [6]
 

Classes have no place in EVE. One of the main reasons this game is around is that your char can learn whatever he wants. And anyway the class system does not fit well with the skill gain system if EVE. Just imagine that you have a 50M SP char, and you find out that you want another special ability. Delete the 50M char and retrain the new one for 3 years?

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2008.08.23 18:36:00 - [7]
 

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Zeerover
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2008.08.23 19:00:00 - [8]
 

I'd like this idea if it was done on a minor scale ala a free hardwiring.

Somebody who is in the Special Forces background would for instance have an inherent 5% to Turret tracking speed/Missile Explosion Radius and somebody in Industry/Prospector would have an inherent 5% bonus to Manufacturing Time/Miner cycles.


If it was a major boost it would break the game.

Hesod Adee
Dark-Rising
Posted - 2008.08.23 20:34:00 - [9]
 

And what should be done for the players who find out that they didn't get the ability they want, when other players who rolled another character did ?

Originally by: Sq7
About the human side. I dunno. Is it really so far fetched to presume that humanity might one day attain a level of conscious mastery over the forces which determine the nature of the universe?

Not really. But we will do it with science and machines, not some BS woo-woo ability that is suspiciously absent whenever it is tested for in a way that prevents trickery from fooling anyone.
Quote:
I mean how does fleet augmentation work? The ability to make al ships in ur fleet fly faster for one thing... I don't think the concept is in such stark contrast to some of the things you find in eve already.

Except that those bonuses come from machines and the science of the people who designed them, not from some BS psychic ability.

Caldari 5
Amarr
The Element Syndicate
Blazing Angels Alliance
Posted - 2008.08.23 23:26:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Caldari 5 on 23/08/2008 23:27:21
Originally by: Zeerover
I'd like this idea if it was done on a minor scale ala a free hardwiring.

Somebody who is in the Special Forces background would for instance have an inherent 5% to Turret tracking speed/Missile Explosion Radius and somebody in Industry/Prospector would have an inherent 5% bonus to Manufacturing Time/Miner cycles.


If it was a major boost it would break the game.


I like it, an inherit ability that is actually inherit, basically an unchang
ing Slot 11.


-edit spelling

Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Kumovi
The G0dfathers
Posted - 2008.08.24 00:01:00 - [11]
 

This should have been done when the game started up, for now it gimps the players who already have tens of millions of skillpoints and an attribute they never wanted, while others may have gotten the one they wanted.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2008.08.24 10:06:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Grarr Dexx
This should have been done when the game started up, for now it gimps the players who already have tens of millions of skillpoints and an attribute they never wanted, while others may have gotten the one they wanted.

Yeah, right, because a tens of millions SP character gets completely GIMPED! when it doesn't get the perfectly fitting 3-5% bonus....

Sq7
Posted - 2008.08.24 17:27:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Grarr Dexx
This should have been done when the game started up, for now it gimps the players who already have tens of millions of skillpoints and an attribute they never wanted, while others may have gotten the one they wanted.


Let the players vote to decide the skills.

Mankirks Wife
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.08.24 17:29:00 - [14]
 

I dunno.. if it was something exceedingly minor people would say "OK, what was the point?"

And bringing in actual classes into Eve would be something NGE worthy. One of the biggest draws to skill-based games like Eve is that you're not artificially restricted by arbitrary classes and levels.

Karentaki
Gallente
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.08.24 17:29:00 - [15]
 

Please no. This would horribly detract from the 'pseudo-realism' that eve has compared to other MMOs, and to be honest it would break the sandbox. The beauty about eve is that your starting race doesn't limit you to one specific career path. Just because you start with mining skills doesn't prevent you from becoming a PvP'er, and vice a versa.

Titus Canmore
Posted - 2008.08.24 17:46:00 - [16]
 

One thing I'd like to see, that would definitely allow for more early player-differentiation, is the option to modify your starting skill pack. Allowing players to expend a fixed number of skill points free-form might lead to Bad Things (TM), but how about allowing players the option of trading a package skill back in for another at, say, a 15% SP penalty?

Yaturi
Posted - 2008.08.24 17:58:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Yaturi on 24/08/2008 18:31:25
This is funny and weird, because its exactly what I was thinking about last night.

Compare Eve to a fantasy rpg and yes you do have classes.

You have tanks, you have dps'ers, you have fast evaders, you have def boosters, you have att boosters, you have att debuffers, you have healers, you have wizards (slow, confuse, blind == web, ecm, dampening), miners, blacksmiths, etc

For that missing theif you want, how about checking this thread.

But yeah i'm not sure giving certain boosts to certain classes in the character creation screen is really fit for eve. Anything like the (warrior smartbomb?) would be taking advantage of. And it would make already inherrent flaws in the game, like gatecamping, much much worse.

Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
House of El
Posted - 2008.08.24 18:21:00 - [18]
 

The very beauty of EvE, is that you are not limited to one "class" but can infact be every class or combination of classes.

In WoW, you can play a paladin, that paladin can either do damage, heal or tank.
In EvE, you can train to be a tank, a damage dealer or a support.

In WoW, you can play a rogue, who can open locks and incapacitate other players.
In EvE, you can tarin archeology (to open the lock boxes) and EW to incapacitate other players (well, but them out of the battle atleast).

So you see, we have very many different roles, but don't need 7 different characters to cover every role. We can just train for them.

Yaturi
Posted - 2008.08.24 18:29:00 - [19]
 

^ Exactly

Hesod Adee
Dark-Rising
Posted - 2008.08.24 22:40:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Sq7
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
This should have been done when the game started up, for now it gimps the players who already have tens of millions of skillpoints and an attribute they never wanted, while others may have gotten the one they wanted.


Let the players vote to decide the skills.


The only way I see this fixing the issue is if everyone gets the same bonus, which is quite likely since people are voting on them. But that would screw over your suggestion.

Then again, your only justification for it is that you want to force some characters into only playing certian roles because it adds more "personality" and is an rpg element that is "sorely missed".

As Yaturi said:
Quote:
You have tanks, you have dps'ers, you have fast evaders, you have def boosters, you have att boosters, you have att debuffers, you have healers, you have wizards (slow, confuse, blind == web, ecm, dampening), miners, blacksmiths, etc


We also have thieves, and by thief we don't mean some BS thief class that sneaks around in combat without stealing much. When we say thief in Eve, we mean at least one of the following:
- People who enter your corp, then rob the wallet and/or hangers.
- People who come into your mission and steal your loot and/or salvage.
- People who steal from the cans your mining stuff into.
- People who find unoccupied ships in safe spots, then steal them.
- People who gank you to steal the bits of your ship that survive.
- People who learn when a POS is being unanchored, so they swoop in with haulers at the right time to steal the POS tower.
- Scams are also a form of theft.

So yeah, we have thieves.
Originally by: Abrazzar
Yeah, right, because a tens of millions SP character gets completely GIMPED! when it doesn't get the perfectly fitting 3-5% bonus....


So you would like it if CCP came along and made a change that forced you to chose between:

- Restarting a character that was several years old
or
- Knowing that no matter what you do, your characters stats could never be as good as another character for what you want to do.

All because you got unlucky when CCP decided who gets which bonus.

Yaturi
Posted - 2008.08.24 22:56:00 - [21]
 

This is off topic-

Quote:
We also have thieves, and by thief we don't mean some BS thief class that sneaks around in combat without stealing much. When we say thief in Eve, we mean at least one of the following:
- People who enter your corp, then rob the wallet and/or hangers.
- People who come into your mission and steal your loot and/or salvage.
- People who steal from the cans your mining stuff into.
- People who find unoccupied ships in safe spots, then steal them.
- People who gank you to steal the bits of your ship that survive.
- People who learn when a POS is being unanchored, so they swoop in with haulers at the right time to steal the POS tower.
- Scams are also a form of theft.

So yeah, we have thieves.


BUT none of that is a skill now is it? *sigh* Am i'm gonna have to go all over this message board to defend it? Is anyone going to read it in its entirety? Ok first off, dont apply sneaking to commandeering. Dont apply only being in a BS to commandeering. And dont try to put down the skill for having a low success rate, because thats what checks it into balance with the rest of eve. If you got issues with the idea then post in the proper thread, but be prepared to validate yourself.


Now back to the topic

Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Kumovi
The G0dfathers
Posted - 2008.08.24 23:03:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Sq7
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
This should have been done when the game started up, for now it gimps the players who already have tens of millions of skillpoints and an attribute they never wanted, while others may have gotten the one they wanted.


Let the players vote to decide the skills.


Yeah, because the players know what's best, right?

*glances over features & ideas / game development forums*

Rolling Eyes

J'Mkarr Soban
Posted - 2008.08.25 07:44:00 - [23]
 

No. As has been mentioned, the strength of this game (and why many people are here) is because anyone can do anything with the right levels of skills, experience and money. I strongly oppose anything that gives a certain group abilities or skills above any other - and that goes for the character creation only skills that were floating around, too.

Koyama Ise
Caldari
Posted - 2008.08.25 11:34:00 - [24]
 

I don't want the Amarr guy to have some magical bonus to neuts through some telekinetic power that he has been given from past generations through the hard work of Darwin. (Serious not Sarcasm) It's a terrible idea that won't aid balance and will break the sandbox idea of EVE.

Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
Posted - 2008.08.25 11:44:00 - [25]
 

Quote:
by thief we don't mean some BS thief class


They didn't mean BattleShip... they meant Bull****

Like... this entire Bull**** "Dungeons and Dragons meets Star Wars" idea everyone has in their heads.

Hi, I'm Han Solo. I'm a Rogue, with an inherent bonus to flying my ship through dangerous situations. If you have a target lock on me, then I get a +2 to all my skills.

Hi, I'm Luke Skywalker. I'm a Sorcerer, with MAGICAL bonuses to everything. I get all my purchases from Market for half off, because I can wave my hand. AND... I have a lightsaber, so that means your armor doesn't count at all in combat against me!


GO BACK TO WORLD OF WARCRAFT, YOU BASEMENT DWELLING, SLACK JAWED, NEARSIGHTED, PATHETIC EXCUSES FOR HUMAN BEINGS.
Very Happy


Another Forum'Alt
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2008.08.25 12:03:00 - [26]
 

No.

Just... NO

Yaturi
Posted - 2008.08.25 15:20:00 - [27]
 

^^ Oh go to hell Marcus Gideon. I'm sick of your snide over-assuming opinions you flaunt in this section. I never played world of warcraft and my only agreement here was that this game is in the same vein class-wise as all other rpg mmo's with the exception that its sci-fi and not fantasy. It's not my fault you're a repugnant jerk who doesn't give a second glance to anothers post because it doesn't follow your strict and anal retentive mode of gameplay. You're the one thats been needing to get out of the basement for some time now, its just that no one has had the balls to tell you so. So there.

Very Happy

Nekopyat
Posted - 2008.08.25 15:23:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Sq7

I love RPG games. And one thing that is central to RPGs in general is that different classes tend to have inherent abilities which hugely affect the way you play the game with them.



If you want to be technical, this is central to games that derive from the D&D ruleset. While popular, this paradigm is not universal and there are a lot of people who grew tired of the simplicity and restrictions of classes (and levels) decades ago.

Isidore Tailleur
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.08.25 15:30:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Sq7
The ability to make al ships in ur fleet fly faster for one thing... I don't think the concept is in such stark contrast to some of the things you find in eve already.


That is simple. It has nothing to do with superpowers.

The ship and the technology is controlled my the pilot. The level of control and the amount of systems that can be tuned and monitored is dependent on the skills of the pilot. By linking with another pilot the technology can be more closely monitored and function better.

I agree that this is a bad idea. One of the advantages of EVE is exactly that there isn't any of this pre-modeled crap. Anyone can do anything and you can specialize your character exactly how you want. You could also change direction later along the line. This is fantastic compared to any other RPG where you have to stay withing the specific model you picked when you created a char.

Yaturi
Posted - 2008.08.25 15:39:00 - [30]
 

Plus what if there was a boost to a certain races' mining or production output. Those homelands would then become hubs of that resource, which would further imbalance the economy.

You see, anything that favors a certain race would still in the end totally and irrepairably affect the entire game turning it into another game and/or wow clone.


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