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blankseplocked Remove the Kinetic Missile Damage Bonus.
 
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Jim Raynor
Caldari
Bad Kitty Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.08.22 09:17:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Jim Raynor on 22/08/2008 10:06:11
Before I get into my argument let's have a quick history lesson.

A while back if anyone still remembers, CCP went and redesigned how drones work and changed the bonuses on many Gallente ships to adjust for the new drone changes. One of the changes was that the Gallente drone damage bonus was limited to thermal drones and even though for the most part the thermal drones are by far the best drones in the game (expect for warrior IIs) the entire Gallente community went into a complete uproar. So much of an protest was made over this change, so many torches and pitchforked wielding Gallente folks stormed the CCP castle that the changes were quickly removed and the universal drone bonus was reinstated.

Why do I mention this? Well when the missile system was redesigned Caldari guys basically got hit with the same crap, expect I suppose we didn't cry enough at the time and we've had to be stuck with a rather raw deal for years now. The raw deal I speak of? Our damage bonus on missiles generally only applies to kinetic missiles.

Most People Will Say: Lasers ONLY do EM/Thermal, Hybrids ONLY do Kinetic/Thermal (Projectiles Vary so I will leave them out!)
My Rebuttal: That's still 2 damage types and 2 is still better than 1 and turrets generally do more DPS than missiles do. Missiles take time to reach their targets, sure one on one fights on SiSi this might not matter much but in real PvP missile velocity does factor. Are there advantages to missiles? Absolutely. Drawbacks? Plenty. Still, I see no reason to gimp the Caldari lineup into being able to only use 1 missile type and having not enough DPS to shoot its way out of a wet paper bag otherwise. Drones were 'almost' put in the same situation but CCP changed their minds when they realized it was a bad idea, well what we have here with the 'kinetic only' bonus is a bad idea that was never again addressed and basically forgotten about.

Now people might say that it would be OMFGWTFPWN if Caldari had a universal missile damage bonus. Well to that I will quietly point to the Sacrilege, which has tank, gank, universal missile dps, ect ect.. while I think as far as available powergrid go it's a tad overpowered still it has damage to all assault missiles and doesn't BREAK TEH GAME.

Okay now look at Ravens, which gets a bonus to rate of fire obviously. It is considered one of the better Caldari ships, and it is, and it delivers its DPS with all damage types and isn't game breaking.

So there are two ships with a bonus to all missiles and work perfectly fine.

So in a nutshell, every single Caldari ship that has a bonus to kinetic missile damage should simply have a bonus to all missile damage.

Aethrwolf
Caldari
Podrratu
Posted - 2008.08.22 11:58:00 - [2]
 

Or they could just REMOVE the Kinetic bonus and change it to a universal bonus to missile velocity, ROF, Flight time... etc

J'Mkarr Soban
Posted - 2008.08.22 13:19:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Aethrwolf
Or they could just REMOVE the Kinetic bonus and change it to a universal bonus to missile velocity, ROF, Flight time... etc


Yeah, I've got to say that for being the missile 'specialists', the Caldari aren't very 'specialised'. Anyone can shove a bigger warhead onto a missile, however it takes a lot of expertise to increase fuel consumption, tracking, targetting etc. I'd like to see the Caldari focus on that primarily, because it will end up giving them more effective damage than just a raw damage bonus.

procurement specialist
Posted - 2008.08.22 14:07:00 - [4]
 

rof bonus instead of dmg bonus would be fine. i think an explosion velocity and explosive radius bonus would be cool too if i can have a pipe dream.

BiggestT
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2008.08.22 14:59:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: procurement specialist
rof bonus instead of dmg bonus would be fine. i think an explosion velocity and explosive radius bonus would be cool too if i can have a pipe dream.


ppl forget that dmg bonus's are always better than rof bonus's as rof bonus's use more ammo.
Considering the only useful heavy missile in pvp right now is caldary navy scourge, thats a nice, but expensive bonus.

If they just fix the dmg bonus's it wld be better. Mind you kinetic dmg is basically the best damage and i wldnt really use the others much anyway..

Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
Halinallen veroparatiisi
Inglorious Carebears
Posted - 2008.08.22 15:23:00 - [6]
 

Just thinking out loud. I personally think Missile DAMAGE bonus in any ship is a completely ******ed idea. How does your ship magically "boost" the warhead? I can understand this on hybrid and laser weapons, because those "need" the ship to be able to work (power etc.). Projectiles use "gunpowder". I think the bonus should indeed me tracking bonus (better sensors on the ship, makes sense) or range, rate of fire etc. Those actually make some sense.

Any way to make sense of damage bonus in a ship would mean a better equipment for tracking/range/rate of fire thus creating a bonus to damage. Unless they have a fairy who blesses every single light missile before it heads out!

procurement specialist
Posted - 2008.08.22 15:57:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer
Just thinking out loud. I personally think Missile DAMAGE bonus in any ship is a completely ******ed idea. How does your ship magically "boost" the warhead? I can understand this on hybrid and laser weapons, because those "need" the ship to be able to work (power etc.). Projectiles use "gunpowder". I think the bonus should indeed me tracking bonus (better sensors on the ship, makes sense) or range, rate of fire etc. Those actually make some sense.

Any way to make sense of damage bonus in a ship would mean a better equipment for tracking/range/rate of fire thus creating a bonus to damage. Unless they have a fairy who blesses every single light missile before it heads out!


the ship has special targetting systems to control when the missile explodes for maximum damage spread? try and warp off and notice none of your missiles hit. missiles are very dependent on you being there to guide them.

Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
House of El
Posted - 2008.08.22 16:43:00 - [8]
 

Well, you can have you universal damage bonus to all missiles, when turret bonuses are made for all turrets. Change the RoF bonus on the Armageddon from Laser to just Turrets.

And to your retributal: Missiles are concentrated damage, easy to tank but also a good hole exploiter. If you hit the weak spot, all your damage will target the weakspot. No turret can do that, we have a split damage.

Wannabehero
Wayward Ventures
Posted - 2008.08.22 17:55:00 - [9]
 

I support changing Caldari Kinetic Missile Damage bonus to a flat + all damage.

However, I believe that missiles should be hence changed to a dual damage system then. All missiles should then do 25% kinetic damage, 75% other damage, Where Kinetic Missiles (Bloodclaw, Scourge, ect.) would just be straight 100% kinetic damage.

Then the +5% kinetic damage bonus could be changed to +5% damage.

Jim Raynor
Caldari
Bad Kitty Inc.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.08.22 20:06:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Jim Raynor on 22/08/2008 20:08:36
Originally by: Aethrwolf
Or they could just REMOVE the Kinetic bonus and change it to a universal bonus to missile velocity, ROF, Flight time... etc


Well most Caldari ships already have a bonus to missile velocity and some do have a bonus to rate of fire.

Could a Caracal benefit from a rate of fire bonus? Definitely, rate of fire + missile velocity would be a lot better than kinetic missile + missile velocity.

Still some tech II ships like the Nighthawk, Cerberus have rate of fire + kinetic missile damage and I'd still like to see that be a universal missile damage bonus.

Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
Well, you can have you universal damage bonus to all missiles, when turret bonuses are made for all turrets. Change the RoF bonus on the Armageddon from Laser to just Turrets.

And to your retributal: Missiles are concentrated damage, easy to tank but also a good hole exploiter. If you hit the weak spot, all your damage will target the weakspot. No turret can do that, we have a split damage.


Why would an Armageddon need a RoF bonus for all turrets? Lasers are the best turrets in the game.. anyways the point is that missiles != turrets. They do less DPS, they have flight time, they have some good advantages for sure but they also have plenty of weaknesses as well. Point is missiles are supposed to be versatile but since Caldari ships already have lower DPS than everyone else and missiles do take time to reach their targets (raven is prob an exception cause of the torp boost), when you switch from kinetics on a Caracal your are pretty much getting zero bonuses on that ship, pretty lame?

Originally by: Wannabehero
However, I believe that missiles should be hence changed to a dual damage system then. All missiles should then do 25% kinetic damage, 75% other damage, Where Kinetic Missiles (Bloodclaw, Scourge, ect.) would just be straight 100% kinetic damage.


I suggested racial missiles a long long time ago where the damage would be about 60% kinetic and about 40% of another racial type.

For example a Minmatar Heavy Missile would still deal mostly Kinetic but also have some Explosive damage mixed in, but also be the fastest missile while overall doing the least amount of damage, in other words a long range missile. Caldari missiles would be purely kinetic but deal the most damage. Gallente missiles would most likely be on the weak side as EM drones are, and Amarr missiles would probably be more of a Khanid design and probably right under Caldari in terms of overall effectiveness. I think explosive velocity, explosive radius, ect ect should also be 'racially tweaked' as much as the secondary damage type.

Racial missiles has been something I've wanted for quite a while now, it's quite doable. If I get some time to really sit down and do a write up I will probably throw a post on the Assembly Hall on this as I've felt it's a good idea for years now.

Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer
Just thinking out loud. I personally think Missile DAMAGE bonus in any ship is a completely ******ed idea. How does your ship magically "boost" the warhead? I can understand this on hybrid and laser weapons, because those "need" the ship to be able to work (power etc.). Projectiles use "gunpowder". I think the bonus should indeed me tracking bonus (better sensors on the ship, makes sense) or range, rate of fire etc. Those actually make some sense.

Any way to make sense of damage bonus in a ship would mean a better equipment for tracking/range/rate of fire thus creating a bonus to damage. Unless they have a fairy who blesses every single light missile before it heads out!


My guess is it's like surgical strike, you are simply guiding your missiles into vulnerable spots on the ship to maximize damage. Honestly it doesn't make sense a leadership skill could boost your gangs armor HP either, it's just a game. =P


 

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