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Haakelen
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.09.02 22:55:00 - [1201]
 

This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.

Regards,
The EVE Online Moderation team

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.09.02 22:57:00 - [1202]
 

Originally by: Haakelen
I can't wait until some carebear space game ****hole comes out, so mongoloids like that guy can get the **** out and stop ****ing up Eve.


I wish those star trek guys would get their **** together.

Pithecanthropus
Posted - 2008.09.02 23:09:00 - [1203]
 

Originally by: Ki An


You're seriously stupid. High sec PvP isn't PvP? What the hell do you call it then? Player vs player game play is defined by two or more players interacting in a competitive environment.

Eve is (was) a non consensual PvP game until your lot fracked it up.

/Edited because of no-no word


If you calling ganking a hauler in high sec pvp with your 10 Domi's then please find another game, cuz you've just insulted every pvper in Eve... and every pvper in ALL MMORPGs.

But, I guess you are free to do what you want... even if it's the lamest form of any playstyle in this game. But perhaps you are good at 'lame'.

I think the door is over there... please leave.

Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.09.02 23:10:00 - [1204]
 

Originally by: Pithecanthropus

If you calling ganking a hauler in high sec pvp with your 10 Domi's then please find another game, cuz you've just insulted every pvper in Eve... and every pvper in ALL MMORPGs.

But, I guess you are free to do what you want... even if it's the lamest form of any playstyle in this game. But perhaps you are good at 'lame'.

I think the door is over there... please leave.


Since you don't understand what 'PvP' means, perhaps you should stop talking about it? Just a thought.

Drunk Driver
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.09.02 23:13:00 - [1205]
 



It pleases me to see the serious pirate/griefer crowd in such turmoil.

Yep, it pleases me.



Laughing


.

Pithecanthropus
Posted - 2008.09.02 23:13:00 - [1206]
 

Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Pithecanthropus

If you calling ganking a hauler in high sec pvp with your 10 Domi's then please find another game, cuz you've just insulted every pvper in Eve... and every pvper in ALL MMORPGs.

But, I guess you are free to do what you want... even if it's the lamest form of any playstyle in this game. But perhaps you are good at 'lame'.

I think the door is over there... please leave.


Since you don't understand what 'PvP' means, perhaps you should stop talking about it? Just a thought.


LOL... I just realized I know more than you.

Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.09.02 23:14:00 - [1207]
 

Originally by: Pithecanthropus

You'll be waiting a long time... cuz I'm happy with how I play. You're the one whining about what other's do in some other space. Focus on yourself for once, maybe you'll feel better.


He's right, to be honest. What we need to hope for is another good PvP game. If one of those comes out CCP won't be able to take the PvPers for granted anymore. They will be forced to make "design decisions" that go our way every once in a while.

Pithecanthropus
Posted - 2008.09.02 23:14:00 - [1208]
 

Originally by: Drunk Driver


It pleases me to see the serious pirate/griefer crowd in such turmoil.

Yep, it pleases me.



Laughing


.

QFT Laughing

Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.09.02 23:15:00 - [1209]
 

Originally by: Pithecanthropus
LOL... I just realized I know more than you.


Did you? I'm sure you are well versed in picking flowers and singing songs. Doubt you're so savvy about other things.

And you still don't know what PvP means.

Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.09.02 23:16:00 - [1210]
 

This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.

Regards,
The EVE Online Moderation team

Pithecanthropus
Posted - 2008.09.02 23:17:00 - [1211]
 

Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Pithecanthropus

You'll be waiting a long time... cuz I'm happy with how I play. You're the one whining about what other's do in some other space. Focus on yourself for once, maybe you'll feel better.


He's right, to be honest. What we need to hope for is another good PvP game. If one of those comes out CCP won't be able to take the PvPers for granted anymore. They will be forced to make "design decisions" that go our way every once in a while.


waa-waa-waa... you're not getting all the design decisions? Perhaps if you pvp'ed vs pvp'ers for once, you'd know what pvp is and see that CCP has provided a lot of space and features for you. Get off your high horse and play the game. DONE.

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2008.09.02 23:19:00 - [1212]
 

Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Pithecanthropus

You'll be waiting a long time... cuz I'm happy with how I play. You're the one whining about what other's do in some other space. Focus on yourself for once, maybe you'll feel better.


He's right, to be honest. What we need to hope for is another good PvP game. If one of those comes out CCP won't be able to take the PvPers for granted anymore. They will be forced to make "design decisions" that go our way every once in a while.



Dude, you can't get a good PvP game. Because if it has any element of roleplay in it, these guys show up and b*tch until the devs ears bleed.

A game has to be either counterstrike, where nothing matters and it's mindless mobbing back and forth, or have specific areas set apart so those who want it can be left alone.

So many players actually seem to enjoy having a world where PVP and PVE are active in all levels of gameplay, from day one to the tried and true mercenary.

But whenever a world like that is created, the overload of players who want separate worlds is horrendous. And they are responsible for the ruin of every major MMO that doesn't specifically cater to them. UO, EQ and SWG are all prime examples.

Haakelen
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.09.02 23:20:00 - [1213]
 

Originally by: Pithecanthropus
Originally by: Haakelen
I can't wait until some carebear space game ****hole comes out, so mongoloids like that guy can get the **** out and stop ****ing up Eve.

You'll be waiting a long time... cuz I'm happy with how I play. You're the one whining about what other's do in some other space. Focus on yourself for once, maybe you'll feel better.


You're ****ing stupid. Read my posts in this thread any others. Never once have I said 'CCP should nerf L4s. CCP should let me do suicide ganking'. I kill people in highsec and lowsec. In empire I use wardecs. One time in the last 6 months has one of the target corps been smaller or equal sized to mine. I have watched the trends of PvP change in the last year and a half or so and have adapted, and can thus compete in most of the situations I encounter. I don't have any problem with the game. I'm not the one coming to the forums to cry like a little ***** to have the game molded around me, and what I want to do. Do you think I enjoy worrying about hotdrops in lowsec? Do you think I enjoy getting into wars without proper intel? Certainly not. But I'm not on the ****ing forums 24/7 yelling at CCP to nerf capital ships and wardecs just because I lose ships to something. This game is too deep for you and people like you. Don't worry though, if you keep crying, I'm sure they'll dumb it down enough for you to be able to understand it.

Polly Prissypantz
Dingleberry Appreciation Society
Posted - 2008.09.02 23:23:00 - [1214]
 

Edited by: Polly Prissypantz on 02/09/2008 23:28:46
Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
(4) try pvping vs pvpers for once... there's an idea.


QFT


Or, players could stop allowing themselves to be victims and actually take measures to defend themselves.

Instead of cowering from that 'evil' PvP. Someone should protect you from those mean old other players, right?


Or, players who think griefing soft targets qualifies them as PvPers could get off their high-horse and put as much effort into trying real PvP against other players that are also set up to PvP as they put into crying on the forums about WAAAH level 4 missions are overpowered and WAAAH not enough players in low-sec WAAAH.

Originally by: Pithecanthropus
waa-waa-waa... you're not getting all the design decisions? Perhaps if you pvp'ed vs pvp'ers for once, you'd know what pvp is and see that CCP has provided a lot of space and features for you. Get off your high horse and play the game. DONE.


OMFG it's like you're my psychic twin or something.

Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.09.02 23:29:00 - [1215]
 

Originally by: Pithecanthropus

waa-waa-waa... you're not getting all the design decisions?


Try 'any'.

Originally by: Pithecanthropus

Perhaps if you pvp'ed vs pvp'ers for once, you'd know what pvp is and see that CCP has provided a lot of space and features for you. Get off your high horse and play the game. DONE.


DONE? Made you feel big saying that,Inappropriate content.Applebabe CCP has provided lots of stuff for me. Now they're taking it all away to cater to whimps like you. I've pvp'd with all kinds of people including other pvpers.

But you still don't know what PvP means.

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2008.09.02 23:29:00 - [1216]
 

Originally by: Polly Prissypantz
Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
(4) try pvping vs pvpers for once... there's an idea.


QFT


Or, players could stop allowing themselves to be victims and actually take measures to defend themselves.

Instead of cowering from that 'evil' PvP. Someone should protect you from those mean old other players, right?


Or, players who think griefing soft targets qualifies them as PvPers could get off their high-horse and put as much effort into trying real PvP against other players that are also set up to PvP as they put into crying on the forums about WAAAH level 4 missions are overpowered and WAAAH not enough players in low-sec WAAAH.


Ahh. So should fights only happen between those who are ready and wanting them to happen?

I see. So I should go to losec if I want to face PvP, right? Cause we need to have CCP define what is moral and right and fair?

Is it just me, or does noone else appreciate the value of self-imposed morals and the freedom of choice to allow those without them to act as they see fit?

Hardcoding morality in order to protect those who choose to be victimized is so weak. And the reason they are considering doing it?

Cause WAAAA, mean players are picking on me. Or WAAAA, I don't want to train combat skills and actually try and defend myself, or WAAAA, I need mommy to protect me from those evil pirates.

I doubt either of us think in the extreme ink the other paints with. Penalties are all well and good. Suiciding was imbalanced as hell. But with added security, those choosing to live in hisec should be forced to pay the piper, somehow. Tax them. 10-15% off every bounty, mission payout, market action, rental fee, etc, etc.

In hisec, you let NPC's protect you from the cruelty of others. Great, wonderful, everyone has a place to call their own. But why do you and I lose nothing for that protection, while those in losec have to expend effort and/or teamwork in order to get that same level of security?

Polly Prissypantz
Dingleberry Appreciation Society
Posted - 2008.09.03 00:37:00 - [1217]
 

Edited by: Polly Prissypantz on 03/09/2008 00:49:27
Originally by: Ruze
Philosophical nonsense that is irrelevant to an internet spaceship game

Quote:
I doubt either of us think in the extreme ink the other paints with. Penalties are all well and good. Suiciding was imbalanced as hell. But with added security, those choosing to live in hisec should be forced to pay the piper, somehow. Tax them. 10-15% off every bounty, mission payout, market action, rental fee, etc, etc.

In hisec, you let NPC's protect you from the cruelty of others. Great, wonderful, everyone has a place to call their own. But why do you and I lose nothing for that protection, while those in losec have to expend effort and/or teamwork in order to get that same level of security?


The problem is not high-sec. The problem is low-sec. The rewards in low-sec are simply not there, and never have been. Low-sec is an anomaly. It's supposed to be a middle-ground between high-sec and 0.0, but it's not. Besides the few consolations such as sentry guns, and mostly meaningless sec hits, low-sec is de-facto 0.0, minus the rewards of actual 0.0.

Wanting to penalize high-sec players simply because your choice to live out in low-sec hasn't turned out so rosey is a backwards and selfish way to try and fix things. Low-sec, and half of 0.0 with stupid true-sec values are what need to be addressed, not supposedly imbalanced level 4 missions.

What a lot of players *****ing about level 4's fail to grasp is that the people making good money out of them have specialized in order to do so. They're usually flying expensive setups and have a serious investment of skills. This is no different to manufacture, invention, 0.0 ratting, 0.0 mining, 0.0 plexing, moon mining/reactions, trading or any other reliable way of making ISK. You get out what you put in.

The only area where this doesn't apply is low-sec. If you ask me, get rid of low-sec entirely.

Post-edit: Pretty graph for the reading impaired: Here

oilio
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.09.03 00:55:00 - [1218]
 

Originally by: Polly Prissypantz

Post-edit: Pretty graph for the reading impaired: Here


Actually, that graph sums it up nicely.

If CCP make that green line shoot WAAAY up in the "problem area", that might help.


Polly Prissypantz
Dingleberry Appreciation Society
Posted - 2008.09.03 01:07:00 - [1219]
 

Originally by: oilio
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz

Post-edit: Pretty graph for the reading impaired: Here


Actually, that graph sums it up nicely.

If CCP make that green line shoot WAAAY up in the "problem area", that might help.


Well the real problem is the pink line: Risk. You go from 0.5 which is low-risk to 0.4 which is stupid-high risk. The only real difference in risk between 0.4 and -1.0 is the availability of bubbles. Other than that the risk is no different, while the reward is only going up incrementally as you make your way from 0.4 to 0.0 then to -1.0.

Risk is the area that needs addressing. I have no solution to this and CCP isn't paying me to come up with one.

Vincent Aran
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.09.03 03:43:00 - [1220]
 

Edited by: Vincent Aran on 03/09/2008 03:43:37
Originally by: Haakelen
You're ****ing stupid. Read my posts in this thread any others. Never once have I said 'CCP should nerf L4s. CCP should let me do suicide ganking'. I kill people in highsec and lowsec. In empire I use wardecs. One time in the last 6 months has one of the target corps been smaller or equal sized to mine. I have watched the trends of PvP change in the last year and a half or so and have adapted, and can thus compete in most of the situations I encounter. I don't have any problem with the game. I'm not the one coming to the forums to cry like a little ***** to have the game molded around me, and what I want to do. Do you think I enjoy worrying about hotdrops in lowsec? Do you think I enjoy getting into wars without proper intel? Certainly not. But I'm not on the ****ing forums 24/7 yelling at CCP to nerf capital ships and wardecs just because I lose ships to something. This game is too deep for you and people like you. Don't worry though, if you keep crying, I'm sure they'll dumb it down enough for you to be able to understand it.


You know that thread was started by a low-sec player that actually wanted high-sec level 4 missions to be nerfed, and not the other way around, right...?

Clair Bear
Ursine Research and Production
Posted - 2008.09.03 04:48:00 - [1221]
 

Screw the pirates, the ganking nerf is going to be a major kick in the nuts for empire manufacturing carebears.

Think about this for a moment. Whether by chilling effect or actual ganking there was a cost associated with hauling or mining AFK. Now that's all gone. Any slack jawed moron can haul or mine AFK. Which means more of the 'X I do is FREE since I live with my parents and they pay for electricity lol' types are going to be swimming in YOUR soup without natural predators to thin the herds.

Suicide gankers bought (or built) ships and modules providing a mineral sink. Wave bye bye to that massive demand. FW is pretty much done. Which means expect ship hulls to sell at exactly insurance payout. And empire minerals to crash through the floor.

Which leaves nullsec. And guess what -- nullsec residents are almost entirely self sufficient. They don't NEED you, except possibly to mine ice at 2M/hour.

Judge Ment
BOOM BOOM POW
Posted - 2008.09.03 05:49:00 - [1222]
 

41 pages later "Smack still strong"

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2008.09.03 06:23:00 - [1223]
 

Originally by: Ki An
CCP has provided lots of stuff for me. Now they're taking it all away to cater to whimps like you.


Ah, so you are just a nanowhiner.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2008.09.03 06:28:00 - [1224]
 

Originally by: Clair Bear
Suicide gankers bought (or built) ships and modules providing a mineral sink. Wave bye bye to that massive demand. FW is pretty much done. Which means expect ship hulls to sell at exactly insurance payout. And empire minerals to crash through the floor.


Can you please explain why the lack of insurance payout will stop people suicide ganking valuable targets? It's a minor setback - you won't have griefing anymore, for sure. Now you'll actually have to have a target for your suicide gank instead of just randomly blowing up Hulks and CNRs.

Empire minerals will crash through the floor simply because we have many new players signing up, many of whom apparently think that mining is a great way to make income! I'm pretty sure more ships are lost to FW and mission-running than are lost to CONCORD.

I don't understand how the lack of insurance payout for ships lost to CONCORD is going to kill factional warfare - please explain?


Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2008.09.03 06:37:00 - [1225]
 

I'm sorry to inform, that sky is not falling on this side of fence. In fact it looks disturbingly stable. Oh yeah, grass is also pretty green.

Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
Posted - 2008.09.03 09:16:00 - [1226]
 

Originally by: Ruze
I doubt either of us think in the extreme ink the other paints with. Penalties are all well and good. Suiciding was imbalanced as hell. But with added security, those choosing to live in hisec should be forced to pay the piper, somehow. Tax them. 10-15% off every bounty, mission payout, market action, rental fee, etc, etc.


This. With an added 5-10% if you chose to remain in an NPC corp. New prices will become the standard amongst the hi-sec only crowd and so the impact would not be as harsh as it may initially seem. Anyone can form a one-man-corp to avoid NPC corp tax and if you want stuff cheaper (because market taxes will be passed onto the customer) then you can make your purchases outside of hi-security space and run the risk of losing your cargo.

CONCORD tax you for their protection much as any alliance expects returns from it's members.
NPC corps tax their members just as player corps have their own taxes and expectations.

Then, as far as I'm concerned, CCP can do whatever they like about hi-sec security and war-decs.

Dave Davies
Posted - 2008.09.03 09:25:00 - [1227]
 

Originally by: Clair Bear
Screw the pirates, the ganking nerf is going to be a major kick in the nuts for empire manufacturing carebears.

Think about this for a moment. Whether by chilling effect or actual ganking there was a cost associated with hauling or mining AFK. Now that's all gone. Any slack jawed moron can haul or mine AFK. Which means more of the 'X I do is FREE since I live with my parents and they pay for electricity lol' types are going to be swimming in YOUR soup without natural predators to thin the herds.

Suicide gankers bought (or built) ships and modules providing a mineral sink. Wave bye bye to that massive demand. FW is pretty much done. Which means expect ship hulls to sell at exactly insurance payout. And empire minerals to crash through the floor.

Which leaves nullsec. And guess what -- nullsec residents are almost entirely self sufficient. They don't NEED you, except possibly to mine ice at 2M/hour.




HOLY PEW PEWS IT'S TEH APAKALAPSE!!! ECONOMIC MELTDOWN!!! OPEN TEH DARN FED WINDOW!!!

Well, either that or you've finally collected enough high- meta molehills to build your very own Mountain II. I got 5 ISK says it's the latter.

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2008.09.03 09:38:00 - [1228]
 

Edited by: Le Skunk on 03/09/2008 09:50:33
Originally by: Mara Rinn

Can you please explain why the lack of insurance payout will stop people suicide ganking valuable targets?




Assuming no insurance payout for concorded ships.

It took around 15 torp ravens to pop a freighter in a 0.5 (obelisk highest hit points, slave set, in gang, 5% hull mod, assuming 3 volleys of torps get off). That most pilots wernt flying around in slave sets was offset by the fact that not all ravens managed to get off a third volley. Lag, slow warp ins, slow pilots etc offset this.

Now concord have been buffed so your looking at (depending on the sec status of the system) anywhere between 25 and 45 torp ravens. (working on the principle you are gogin to get max 2 and possibly only 1 volley off)

So the cost (at 120million per raven (t2 bcus, arbelest sieges, t1 midslots) leaves costs for ganking a freighter at somewhere between 3 - 5 billion isk.

Ok, now from experience, you are looking at perhaps 35% of the loot surviving. So to cover the costs, a hit would have to be carrying maybe 13 billion isk of cargo.

Thats to break even

Trust me - its incredibly rare to see that amount of isk in a freighter. From experience you would be scanning for... maybe 30 hours to see one. Rather then risk hauling that much, most pilots with a brain would purchase a 2nd or 3rd freighter pilot (you can get in a freighter very quickly) and AFK three accounts on autopilot.

So thats 25+ guys hanging around for 30 hours. A good 750 man hours.

To break even.

Small corps dont have a chance to organise that amount of people, and risk that amount of isk. So CCPs mythical "logistic terrorism" belongs (like more and more of this game) simply to the big alliances.

SKUNK

Hurrum Hurrum
Gallente
Posted - 2008.09.03 10:21:00 - [1229]
 

Originally by: Haakelen
I can't wait until some carebear space game ****hole comes out, so mongoloids like that guy can get the **** out and stop ****ing up Eve.


More personal attacks- Calling a person 'mongoloid'

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.09.03 10:25:00 - [1230]
 

Originally by: Hurrum Hurrum
Originally by: Haakelen
I can't wait until some carebear space game ****hole comes out, so mongoloids like that guy can get the **** out and stop ****ing up Eve.


More personal attacks- Calling a person 'mongoloid'



I believe the modern term is "Downy"


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