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Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.09.01 14:30:00 - [1051]
 

Originally by: Strom Kryos
Lp store didnt nerf anything. It caused all the big ticket item to flood the market.. hence getting the navy bs and making 700 mil isk for months of endless lvl4 missions, now your lucky if you can sc**** 100 mil off it. Thats where others are complaining about it being nerfed. I feel its only a matter of time before everything on the lp store is completely flooded. I think the lp store should.. dare I say ROTATE stock month to month taking the items that have been accepted the most and making them unavailable for a month.


That could be an idea.

However, as I said, since the lp store was introduced I have been making a lot more isk/lp than before.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2008.09.02 02:29:00 - [1052]
 

Originally by: Gamesguy
..snipped good post..


I won't argue those numbers, it's about what I'd assume is correct. There's some ideal situations where you can make more (while living in Fountain I had certain systems that I could chain + pick the juicy loot and salvage 'on the go' - domi ftw), in theory up towards 50mil an hour with just regular loot and no special spawns counted. But that's very very situational, around 20mil an hour sounds like regular 0.0 ratting.

Totally agree with you as well regarding the LP store, it really boosted lv4 in all sense. Waiting several weeks to get the correct offer was a *****. Then again, a CNR at that time was 1bil while today it's 400mil..

..either way, and here's the key;
You have to compare lv4 in high sec, not with only one other way of making isk. You need to compare lv4 in high sec with lv4 in low sec. With mining in high-/low-sec. With plex farming. I.e. the basic ways of 'farming' that everyone can do, counting out all industrial- and trade ways.

When you do that, you'll notice that lv4 in Empire gives slightly over 0.0 ratting, with an ideal setup mission runner obviously. Say you are a hardcore farmer, 10-15hours a day, that pulls you with 250-375mil a day assuming 25mil an hour. A 0.0-ratter would pull in 200-300mil. Then compare that with a guy mining for 10-15 hour, again in an ideal setup? We're talking way over a bil here. I know 0.0-miners pulling in 400mil+ an hour. An hour. That's multiple accounts yes, but that's not the point. You can easily run 5 accounts mining same time, but you can't multitask 5 lv4's - unless you permarun tanks but that'll not pull in optimal isk per hour per character either.. Not to mention the guys that run a plex that pulls them from a few hundred mil to multi-billions per run, with some efficiency and multiple accounts they can do it several times an hour! Both cases virtually no more risk than lv4's in Empire..

That's where alot of people fail in this thread.
The comparison is lacking, and the whole picture isn't discussed. Things need to be put in perspective.

I know a girl that started EVE and pulled in 300mil+ in her first month, doing purely lv1 and lv2, obviously with no real skills. Nerf lv1-2's?

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.09.02 02:41:00 - [1053]
 

Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Gamesguy
I know 0.0-miners pulling in 400mil+ an hour. An hour.


I bet you don't.

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2008.09.02 02:50:00 - [1054]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Misanth
I know 0.0-miners pulling in 400mil+ an hour. An hour.


I bet you don't.


Multiple account hulks? That's easily possible.

Strom Kryos
Gallente
Posted - 2008.09.02 02:52:00 - [1055]
 

Something to keep in mind.. Lvl4 missions have always been compared to 0.0 ratting.. once the officer spawns.. which by far could out isk lvl4 missions.. where no longer something scanned down.. here come the plexes. Lvl 4 missions in no way compare to the plexes. Also the hi sec plexes are a laugh compared to 0.0. I've know plenty in 0.0 to pull in over a bil a week due to plexing on regular basis. Sure you have a few guys exploring for them.. but you dont solo 0.0. The whole risk vs reward is a bit more complex than lvl4 vs what can be done in 0.0. Where as if your comparing lvl4 low sec - hi sec that is a straight up comparism.

Strom Kryos
Gallente
Posted - 2008.09.02 02:59:00 - [1056]
 

To even further the argument.. can you mine dyposim (sp) in hi sec. Talk about risk vs reward. So much more isk to be made in 0.0 than silly lvl4 missions. Again 0.0 is not a solo income. So why compare lvl4 missions with items in 0.0 when your trying to fill in a substitue for something in 0.0 that has no straight up comparism.

Ratting in 0.0 is by far better than ratting in hi sec.. theres your ratting comparism.. not lvl4 missions. The only thing lvl4 missions can be compared to and even looked at for changes is from hi sec to low sec. And low sec has lvl5 missions.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.09.02 02:59:00 - [1057]
 

Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Misanth
I know 0.0-miners pulling in 400mil+ an hour. An hour.


I bet you don't.


Multiple account hulks? That's easily possible.


Yeah right.

Who the hell runs 10 hulks (being generous here), plus hauler?

Plus he's comparing finite high-end 0.0 rewards (and neglecting overhead factors like taking, securing and maintaining that space, plus logistics) to hi-sec rewards.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.09.02 03:03:00 - [1058]
 

Originally by: Strom Kryos
To even further the argument.. can you mine dyposim (sp) in hi sec. Talk about risk vs reward. So much more isk to be made in 0.0 than silly lvl4 missions. Again 0.0 is not a solo income. So why compare lvl4 missions with items in 0.0 when your trying to fill in a substitue for something in 0.0 that has no straight up comparism.

Ratting in 0.0 is by far better than ratting in hi sec.. theres your ratting comparism.. not lvl4 missions. The only thing lvl4 missions can be compared to and even looked at for changes is from hi sec to low sec. And low sec has lvl5 missions.


Um yeah mining Dysprosium is a great way to attract a BoB cap fleet. That's considered a "risk" by many. And high-ends moons are the very definition of a "limited resource" in EvE. If every player who runs missions got a dyspro moon instead, then how much do you think that dyspro would be worth?

The rest of your post merely illustrates that hi-sec missioning is completely out of balance with other hi-sec activities.

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2008.09.02 03:09:00 - [1059]
 

What if we compared each type of PvE activity to its own?

Hisec Ratting -> Losec Ratting -> Nulsec Ratting
Hisec Missions -> Losec Missions -> Nulsec Missions
Hisec Complexes -> Losec Complexes -> Nulsec Complexes



Well, these obviously don't scale properly, so let's add one more 'layer'.

Hisec Ratting -> Losec Ratting -> 'Poor' Nulsec Ratting -> 'True' Nulsec Ratting
Hisec Missions -> Losec Missions -> 'Poor' Nulsec Missions -> 'True' Nulsec Missions
Hisec Complexes -> Losec Plexes -> 'Poor' Nulsec Plexes -> 'True' Nulsec Plexes



Now, how does the comparison go?

- If you take ratting, you'll see that hisec ratting is for the birds. It really is something you can only expect the very new to do, and even they would be foolish to do it for long. Losec rats feel about the same. While poor nulsec rats rate poorly, there are a heck of a lot more poor systems than true. True nulsec rats, on the other hand, seem to be the bread and butter of a combat players existence in nulsec.

- Plexes? Well, I know there are some what, 4/10's in hisec, right? Highest level? And these are in COSMOS? I'm not sure of how the losec plexes scale anymore, nor what kind of rewards them or the nulsec ones receive. But I do believe that these both require exploration to be found out, and I'm not sure what the security of the system has to do with the rewards.

- Missions. You go from levels 1-4 in hisec, and 1-5 in losec. Rewards ARE greater in losec, but it's comparable to hisec ratting and losec ratting ... there's a difference, but it's not some huge gap. And I here that those pirate NPC's in nulsec give a heafty reward, but by all means, it seems like there is as much increase from losec to nulsec, as there is from hisec to losec.

Many complexes and level 5 missions require a group to do, forcing you to spread the wealth over a broader range, and requiring actual grouping and interaction between players. With this logic, I think they SHOULD be far and away more profitable than any solo activity.

It's the nuslec ratting that seems 'imbalanced' with the whole spectrum in mind. A solo activity that can be done by most any player over a month old, and with possible rewards of astronomical proportions.

Strom Kryos
Gallente
Posted - 2008.09.02 03:12:00 - [1060]
 

No its not even the top hi sec income.. if you think someone is making too much isk doing lvl4 missions.. think again. .. Now what you want to nerf invention and tII production.. how bout Marauder production. I mean if you really want to nerf the #1 item that gives the biggest risk vs reward.. its by far production. Solo hi sec production is the biggest isk maker for a solo person that finds the right things to build with the right skills and right bpcs/bpos. So if somebody wants to nerf the carebares.. there you go.. nerf production.. lvl4 missions are just a past time for those raking in the isk producing just the right items. Where as if someone has an issues with lvl4 missions in hi sec vs low sec then keep up the discussion as theres an actual debate with solid ground.

Strom Kryos
Gallente
Posted - 2008.09.02 03:20:00 - [1061]
 

Edited by: Strom Kryos on 02/09/2008 03:22:27
And there Ruze has it all laid out..

I still dont know of any true 0.0 mission areas.. but the last time I bothered to look was years ago.. due to the fact the stations in 0.0 are player owned.. not npc therefore assume no npc agents. I know there a couple areas on the fringe of 0.0 I thought those were all -.3 to -.1 systems. Either way the debate should be as Ruze just posted.. each item to its actual counterpart.

bah.. those should be .3 to .1 :P

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.09.02 03:23:00 - [1062]
 

Originally by: Strom Kryos
And there Ruze has it all laid out..

I still dont know of any true 0.0 mission areas.. but the last time I bothered to look was years ago.. due to the fact the stations in 0.0 are player owned.. not npc therefore assume no npc agents. I know there a couple areas on the fringe of 0.0 I thought those were all -.3 to -.1 systems. Either way the debate should be as Ruze just posted.. each item to its actual counterpart.


Jesus.

Look, check the sovereignty of Curse or Venal before you say anything that makes you look even sillier for talking about stuff you know nothing about. You obviously know very little about 0.0 life.

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2008.09.02 03:24:00 - [1063]
 

Originally by: Strom Kryos
And there Ruze has it all laid out..

I still dont know of any true 0.0 mission areas.. but the last time I bothered to look was years ago.. due to the fact the stations in 0.0 are player owned.. not npc therefore assume no npc agents. I know there a couple areas on the fringe of 0.0 I thought those were all -.3 to -.1 systems. Either way the debate should be as Ruze just posted.. each item to its actual counterpart.


20% of nulsec space is actually NPC owned. Pirate factions, with agents and stations of their own, where players can do missions against CONCORD.

There's downsides, obviously. For example, if you spend to long running missions in hisec, you might not be able to even work for any of the pirate groups. And these areas of space are sometimes as crowded as hisec. Many player corporations spend their lives here, and will even defend the spaces ... or hunt rival corporations in the area.

Plus, if your corp conveniently owns space near pirate controlled zones, you can be just a jump or two away from missions, deep in the hearts of 0.0.

Rewards are pretty considerable, on the mission scale, at least.

Strom Kryos
Gallente
Posted - 2008.09.02 03:25:00 - [1064]
 

Heh.. enough to know I dont go to 0.0 for mission.. I go there for pvp like the thousands of other players :)

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2008.09.02 03:29:00 - [1065]
 

Originally by: Strom Kryos
Heh.. enough to know I dont go to 0.0 for mission.. I go there for pvp like the thousands of other players :)


I really do wish more players would stop treating EvE like it's 'over there for PvP'. Oh, I know that this is the norm in the MMO world at the moment, and they just can't expect any different.

But really, I would hazard to guess that the vast majority of nulsec residents LIVE there, and more than half are carebears by trade. Industrialists and NPC specialists.

Maybe players wouldn't have such a hard time with the concept if they could get out of the 'consensual PvP' rut and look at the true depth of EvE's interaction.

But wishing doesn't change anything. It just alienates those who disagree with you, and want EvE to be something familiar and 'normal.' Players who would prefer EvE copy this and that (each person having a different definition of what 'this' or 'that' should be), while not enjoying EvE for what it is.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.09.02 03:34:00 - [1066]
 

Originally by: Strom Kryos
Heh.. enough to know I dont go to 0.0 for mission.. I go there for pvp like the thousands of other players :)


But you make your ISK in hi-sec?

Strom Kryos
Gallente
Posted - 2008.09.02 03:35:00 - [1067]
 

Sure enough I stand corrected there are around 4 regions with npc stations. But the rest of my argument is rock solid. Again missions in 0.0 not my cup of tea.. never really looked into it. None the less something on the table ..
lvl4 missions
hi sec
low sec
null sec

Not lvl4 missions vs 0.0 ratting


Strom Kryos
Gallente
Posted - 2008.09.02 03:39:00 - [1068]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Strom Kryos
Heh.. enough to know I dont go to 0.0 for mission.. I go there for pvp like the thousands of other players :)


But you make your ISK in hi-sec?


I can asure you the only thing lvl4 missions did for me was give me start up isk to make isk.

Strom Kryos
Gallente
Posted - 2008.09.02 03:52:00 - [1069]
 

Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: Strom Kryos
Heh.. enough to know I dont go to 0.0 for mission.. I go there for pvp like the thousands of other players :)


I really do wish more players would stop treating EvE like it's 'over there for PvP'. Oh, I know that this is the norm in the MMO world at the moment, and they just can't expect any different.

But really, I would hazard to guess that the vast majority of nulsec residents LIVE there, and more than half are carebears by trade. Industrialists and NPC specialists.

Maybe players wouldn't have such a hard time with the concept if they could get out of the 'consensual PvP' rut and look at the true depth of EvE's interaction.

But wishing doesn't change anything. It just alienates those who disagree with you, and want EvE to be something familiar and 'normal.' Players who would prefer EvE copy this and that (each person having a different definition of what 'this' or 'that' should be), while not enjoying EvE for what it is.


I can see what you mean by that.. But due to the way other players deem to play as well within their rights..

True 0.0 where players can carve a piece of space for themselves.

Nap- group of alliances for stronger defense and stable enviornment
Alliance- group of corps for stronger defense and stable enviornment
Corp- group of players out to make isk together
Player- the drone of 0.0 defend shoot kill, make isk with corp and share the wealth.

Obviously some deviation on that depending on corp/alliance.. but ultimately the player has to be willing to be there to pew pew. If not wanting to defend territory than the only place in 0.0 would be the npc areas, where you still have to be willing to be part of the local community for safty. Thus 0.0 is not a place for those who want to be solo.

Pilot Abilene
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.09.02 04:50:00 - [1070]
 

Ever stop to think that CCP are actually trying to cater for both types of player in EVE considering that the PvE content they continue to add is contrary to the belief of your "forum PvPers"...crazy notion I know.Rolling Eyes I even go as far as saying they enjoy adding new PvE content to an extent along with the core PvP additions. There's no denying they have been improving the PvE aspect of the game greatly over the years.

CCP has the demographic, they have a good idea of what types of players reside where and what they do. I believe they try very hard to cater for both camps. A lot of ppl say CCP are selling out to carebears blah blah blah, but I think they are slowly fine tuning their game to how they want it to be...and no, thats not taking anything away from the PvP aspect of the game at all. It still is and always will be harsh in the domain of PvP and still has its risks within the PvE realm to. Only problem I have with missions is the refinement of loot because this takes income away from the miners of EVE, this is something that needs to be changed imo.

Everyone cries about nerfs when they come yet you still scream out for more lol...nerfing one aspect of the game inadvertently changes something else within the game and then ppl whine about that. I think CCP have high sec mission rewards pretty balanced atm (apart from the refining of loot problem) and this should be used as the platform to boost low sec and 0.0 missions a little more with regards to...ugh risk vs rewards.

Cruel Crow
Aeon Interstellar Conglomerate
Posted - 2008.09.02 05:09:00 - [1071]
 

I still don't know where CCP Comes up with moronic ideas. I don't see myself risking my LP in low-security or 0.0. I don't know about you but - risking implants in 0.0 is like saying here I am boys POD My 1billion isk head, No im not talking about halos either. But implants that help me speed up mission!

But maybe that just what they intended to do?

Only problem is who going to control these areas ? (Farmers)

Tripple A
BOB
GOONS
RA

Who knows - But maybe there will be a sign up sheet at the end of the day to join them. Maybe they will design macros to do mission too

Bad enough that they design high quality complex that are never seen by people in empire. 10/10 complex that make lvl 4 mission look like beginners. Not including how much isk you can **** in!

But to be honest I don't care either way - As long as there are lvl 3s to do I can still make isk =) Maybe some veldspar to mine with a few crumbs of kernite...

I guess mining could be in the future Laughing

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2008.09.02 05:09:00 - [1072]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Yeah right.

Who the hell runs 10 hulks (being generous here), plus hauler?

Plus he's comparing finite high-end 0.0 rewards (and neglecting overhead factors like taking, securing and maintaining that space, plus logistics) to hi-sec rewards.


You're missing the point, and the keyword. Perspective.

A vocal minority is whining about Empire lv4's, and the main point the argue about is the isk making. I'm just showing it's ridicilous to argue on that level. If they want a change to lv4 iskmaking in Empire, it would be to make suicide ganking easier and more profitable, to be honest. The major "problem" with lv4 is that it's too safe, not the isk you make.

As for 10 hulks.. those guys I mention, and I think mainly about three of them, they run 4-5 Hulks with one Hauler, and own their own POS with Rorq in a belt-rich system. When belts reset they strip them clean, quick, and basicly have monopoly on it. The rest of the week they slack, and the compressing can be running at the POS while you do other stuff. Only jumping you do is whatever you need to move the minerals, again, Rorq.

It does require alot of things yes. An alliance that owns the space. POS work. A Rorq-pilot, and a couple of Hulks, so some isk-investment.

But then again, here we come back to the perspective-part. If you rat, you have a chance to get faction and officer drops. If you are mining, you have control of your own income based on your own investment in it (or not). If you are plexing, it's a bit luck based but you have the highest income possible in the game, with extreme luck you can get 2-3 plex' scanned down and have 5 bil in an hour. As I said, extreme. You could also make 200mil another hour. Anyway; when you run lv4, you have a static income. The isk/LP is quite low from the mission itself, and drone/faction missions require looting as they don't have bounty. Faction drops is incredibly rare. And remember we havn't touched trading, inventing, production, etc, all potentially extremely lucrative.

That's why the lvl4-whiners in this thread fail immensely. They are whining about isk, which is really where lv4 comes short. It's a static simple income, just like ratting. Reliable, and in that sense also somewhat safe.

If someone has such huge animosity against lv4, it can't be becasue they feel the isk income is too high, right? It has to be that they are bitter because they have a hard time killing those carebears, unlike miners who can be an easy target? This is the logical assumption, and thus those whiners should start argue the possibilities to kill lv4 mission-runners in high sec instead of talking about the isk, which is a laughable subject, at best.

Gracious NightAngel
Posted - 2008.09.02 05:27:00 - [1073]
 

This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.

Regards,
The EVE Online Moderation team

Ogul
Caldari
ZiTek Deepspace Explorations
United Front Alliance
Posted - 2008.09.02 05:41:00 - [1074]
 

Originally by: Ki An

2k isk is nothing. As I said, I get around 9k isk per lp. I don't even crash the market when getting these sums, as the actual amount of stuff I move is pretty small. The LP store has opened up avenues for extreme wealth. It was a great boost to mission running.



Please do tell how you reach those 9k isk/lp.

Gracious NightAngel
Posted - 2008.09.02 05:45:00 - [1075]
 

Originally by: Ogul
Originally by: Ki An

2k isk is nothing. As I said, I get around 9k isk per lp. I don't even crash the market when getting these sums, as the actual amount of stuff I move is pretty small. The LP store has opened up avenues for extreme wealth. It was a great boost to mission running.



Please do tell how you reach those 9k isk/lp.


Interesting


Gracious NightAngel
Posted - 2008.09.02 05:59:00 - [1076]
 

I have idea

Move some mission out to low-security, but increase the bounties and drops; Instead of dropping like miner 1s you can drop T2 Miners and crap like that. Maybe BPC to Expensive T2 Ships.

Then maybe some Arkonor instead of Omber

Also increase LP

After you complete this maybe you can add concord for security in 0.0

ugh

Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2008.09.02 10:30:00 - [1077]
 

Originally by: Cruel Crow
I still don't know where CCP Comes up with moronic ideas. I don't see myself risking my LP in low-security or 0.0. I don't know about you but - risking implants in 0.0 is like saying here I am boys POD My 1billion isk head, No im not talking about halos either. But implants that help me speed up mission!

But maybe that just what they intended to do?

Only problem is who going to control these areas ? (Farmers)

Tripple A
BOB
GOONS
RA

Who knows - But maybe there will be a sign up sheet at the end of the day to join them. Maybe they will design macros to do mission too

Bad enough that they design high quality complex that are never seen by people in empire. 10/10 complex that make lvl 4 mission look like beginners. Not including how much isk you can **** in!

But to be honest I don't care either way - As long as there are lvl 3s to do I can still make isk =) Maybe some veldspar to mine with a few crumbs of kernite...

I guess mining could be in the future Laughing


People risk implants in 0.0 all the time. I know lots of people that flew around with a full head of slaves, let alone snakes.

Wrong, just goes to show you know nothing about 0.0. Stain(sansha) is controlled by SE, which is not allied with AAA. It used to be the best place in 0.0 to make isk because no one really controlled it, its huge, and most players there are pirates grinding their sec status back up/people grinding isk for pvp just like you. Nowadays SE has it locked down pretty tight though.

We own delve, but blood raider agents really suck.

Curse is owned by TCF, and since the nano nerf it sucks now, not really worth running missions for serpentis since snakes are bad now.

Venal is guristas, and not really owned by anyone, its fairly safe as far as npc 0.0 goes and a favorite region for isk farmers.

You can also try running missions in like syndicate or GW(thukker agents), I don't know much about the current status of these regions.

Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2008.09.02 10:31:00 - [1078]
 

Originally by: Ogul
Originally by: Ki An

2k isk is nothing. As I said, I get around 9k isk per lp. I don't even crash the market when getting these sums, as the actual amount of stuff I move is pretty small. The LP store has opened up avenues for extreme wealth. It was a great boost to mission running.



Please do tell how you reach those 9k isk/lp.


Before the nano-nerf you could reach 10k/lp with minnie agents on certain modules. They required a lot of tags but you can get those tags by setting buy orders for them somewhat above the npc buy order. It was doable, I know people that switched to minmatar from caldari for just that reason.

I dunno what modules give you that kind of isk/lp now.

Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
Posted - 2008.09.02 11:12:00 - [1079]
 

I'm seeing some pretty awful comparisons being made here.

0.0 Complexes: These are not typically a resource available to individual players, they are an alliance resource. As soon as everyone has the opportunity to head out to 0.0 and gain sole access to high-end complexes then it becomes worthy of comparison.

0.0 Mining: Again a limited resource that is not available to all, and running multiple-accounts is most definitely an extra penalty even if it is an out-of-game one. Once we all have access to non-depleting belts and multiple accounts you could say that it makes a good comparison.

Even 0.0 mission running is available only to those who can survive at a profit in the alliance controlled NPC sov space which can be difficult even if you are part of a major alliance let alone for the "average" player.

Comparing the income of the highest upper-percentile with the average is just as bad as comparing the lower. One could just as easily argue against level 4's based on the income of an unskilled or inexperienced player, of someone mining in hi-sec, someone engaging in hi-sec complexing, etc. The arguments are equally flawed.

It would make for a more reasonable discussion to compare the sources of income available to the average player, those not tied to a strictly limited resource, and that do not require an alliance of players to secure and defend the asset. If you are going to compare these methods of income you will have to take into account every player that works towards keeping it secure, the logistics involved, the inherent limitations, and the insurmountable fact that not everyone has access to these methods of income.

The factors involved in working out the ISK/hr value lost to time consuming issues only present outside of hi-sec and the calculation of the average players losses as an ISK/hr value to be deducted from their income is complex enough and these must be considered in any comparison of income. Comparison should be made not on the basis of the elite who never lose a ship, not on the basis of alliance secured assets, but on that available to and attainable by the average player.

While we don't have exact figures on the average we can at least acknowledge that certain numbers or methods are going to be well beyond it and worth discussion only as a separate issue with a title such as "the most skilled players and/or most powerful alliances are making more ISK than they should be."

Lag Hon
Minmatar
Lag Hon Security
Posted - 2008.09.02 11:48:00 - [1080]
 

Originally by: James Lyrus
The only "problem" with mission running, is unlike _every_ other aspect of EVE, it's not a contended resource.


Not that I agree with the OP in the slightest, the answer to the quoted issue above is to set the agents to have a limited number of available mission over a set time period.
Wild example 10 missions per hour.
First 10 players get a mission, player 11 has to wait for the next hour to get a misssion from that agent, rejected missions count to the agents quota.
That would force the mission runners in the heavier populated areas to either wait for a mission or move out to lesser populated systems.


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