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Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2008.08.21 23:59:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Ruze on 22/08/2008 00:00:08
Originally by: Kaeten
Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: umop 3pisdn
It's been asked for, it wont happen.



Took how many months before they nerfed stabalizers?

Took how many years before they added alliances, or FW?

When was the first time they advertised ambulation?

When was the first nano complaint? How many months did the b*tching haunt these forums?

Not saying it'll happen or they'll change anything. Just saying.
You could only cough up a few suggestions that actully went through? You do realize the amount of things ppl whine about that HAVEN'T gone though.

Confused


Such as?

And that weren't totally absurd, like people asking for pink thorax's Laughing

Danjira Ryuujin
Caldari
Posted - 2008.08.22 00:06:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Ruze


Losec = patrolled by Empires, subject to being attacked by roving pirate bands.




There is no roving. Its a bunch of guys sitting at a gate ****ing each other off wondering why no one is in low sec anymore.

Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2008.08.22 00:17:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Danjira Ryuujin
Originally by: Ruze


Losec = patrolled by Empires, subject to being attacked by roving pirate bands.




There is no roving. Its a bunch of guys sitting at a gate ****ing each other off wondering why no one is in low sec anymore.


Please, I can practically autopilot through lowsec its so empty. Barring a few places, lowsec is largely devoid of pirates.

The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
Posted - 2008.08.22 00:20:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Danjira Ryuujin
Originally by: Ruze


Losec = patrolled by Empires, subject to being attacked by roving pirate bands.




There is no roving. Its a bunch of guys sitting at a gate ****ing each other off wondering why no one is in low sec anymore.


Please, I can practically autopilot through lowsec its so empty. Barring a few places, lowsec is largely devoid of pirates.


QFT

Empyre
Chaotic Balance
Posted - 2008.08.22 00:57:00 - [65]
 

aw, another person ticked off because they have to work to get a kill in high sec. i honestly expected at least another month before we saw another whine on this. the op barely waited for the old threads that have hashed every side of this argument to fade away before starting it up again.

oh and do level 4s for fun? Laughing troll better op, quite the wall of text you went through there.

Sergeant Spot
Galactic Geographic BookMark Surveying Inc.
Posted - 2008.08.22 01:04:00 - [66]
 

Dear CCP

Please boost the income and wealth generation of Level 4 missions in 0.5+ space. I want more tear of grief form idiot whiners. Such tears are sweet sweet necter, yummy and good....

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2008.08.22 01:07:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Sergeant Spot
Dear CCP

Please boost the income and wealth generation of Level 4 missions in 0.5+ space. I want more tear of grief form idiot whiners. Such tears are sweet sweet necter, yummy and good....



QFE

We beg you, CCP. Please!!!

Zarlis
Gallente
Posted - 2008.08.22 01:25:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: James Lyrus
The only "problem" with mission running, is unlike _every_ other aspect of EVE, it's not a contended resource.


It's also the only system that ccp has managed to put in place that's actually been designed correctly to scale with increased subscriptions.

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2008.08.22 01:32:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Zarlis
Originally by: James Lyrus
The only "problem" with mission running, is unlike _every_ other aspect of EVE, it's not a contended resource.


It's also the only system that ccp has managed to put in place that's actually been designed correctly to scale with increased subscriptions.



It's also the only system that CCP has put in place that is a direct copy of every other MMO on the market. Those guys can't be that bad. Look at WoW, for Chris' sake.

CCP could do so much with the current game, including killing lag and rolling in many, many more subscriptions. Hell, just shard hisec. Not losec or nulsec (though I see no reason to even have losec if it isn't a FW zone). Let it replicate the system. If 40 people on one node start to cause problems, then offer several 'copy' systems for the player to use.

Poof. No more lag in Jita. No more lage in hisec. And room to add 100k more subscribers, easy.

Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2008.08.22 02:01:00 - [70]
 

All these Whines coming from sour grapes yield a very sour tasting drink.

Not that I'm saying your post has no merit, it seems logical enough. It just wont work as its lopsided.

First off, if *all* level 4 agents were in low sec, most people would just run level 3s in high sec and moan about their lost level 4 missions. Caldari navy raven prices would plummet.

Its not possible to coerce people into low sec like this unless the reward for level 4s is 10x what it currently is.

Why? The mission runners would need to be assured they can replace their ship + mods for every mission they run as it might well be the last mission that ship ever sees as pirates gank it. Thats if the ship even sees one mission all the way through.

A solo mission runner with a full room of agro only needs a pirate in any HAC to tackle him and he'll die in low sec. The pirate in the HAC only needs to jam the mission runner and hold him while the rats kill him.

Here is where the risk involved doesn't warrant the reward of flying missions in low sec. The pirate gets a free kill mail to wave for doing pretty much nothing more than scanning out a mission runner and hitting him with ECM. Killing mission runners in a lowsec mission any other way is just making your life hard.

It takes far too long to run level 4s solo and splitting it with gang members to speed up the mission to get to safety means you cut your bounties.

Level 4s don't have the reward you think they have and putting them in low sec, will need to adjust so far as to make most mission runners gazzillionaires until enough pirates exist to cull them.

The system isn't great, but its not as easily fixed as saying 'risk vs reward'. The risk is that the rats do destroy ships, the reward is pretty low compared to that of say 'invention' or 'market trading'.


Todd Phillips
Posted - 2008.08.22 05:15:00 - [71]
 

wow what a wall of text

Evanade
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.08.22 05:19:00 - [72]
 

Quote:

If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ...

Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.


Quoted for bloody truth!

nkdan
Posted - 2008.08.22 05:56:00 - [73]
 

Another "play eve my way or your wrong" thread. Good yawn read before bed, I dropped off after 3 lines of it.

Next!

Tiberius Tamagin
Amarr
Posted - 2008.08.22 06:25:00 - [74]
 

Oh please. Nerf this, nerf that. If you don't like doing them don't. Leave other people to play the game as they will.

Maria Kalista
Amarr
Knights of Kador
Posted - 2008.08.22 06:27:00 - [75]
 

Oh noes! another one of those 'you are doing it wrong, it should be played like this' whine - nerf threads.Confused

Herring
Caldari
Pimpology
Posted - 2008.08.22 06:30:00 - [76]
 

I read your logic as 'greifing nerfed? then pve must also be nerfed' as not valid.

If you cut down on all the 'easy' ways to make money, people just find the next less difficult way. Then it's the ***** and moan cycle that x activity is too easily making people money, nerf, ***** and moan, nerf....yeah that's fun. I can tell you from experience that the *****ing and nerfing cycle is what keeps people active and interested in the game. Rolling Eyes

Davina Braben
Posted - 2008.08.22 06:50:00 - [77]
 

CCP should buff missions to be honest.

EVEs PvE content is a bit flaccid compared to other games.

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.08.22 06:57:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: James Lyrus on 22/08/2008 06:58:24
Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: Zarlis
Originally by: James Lyrus
The only "problem" with mission running, is unlike _every_ other aspect of EVE, it's not a contended resource.


It's also the only system that ccp has managed to put in place that's actually been designed correctly to scale with increased subscriptions.



It's also the only system that CCP has put in place that is a direct copy of every other MMO on the market. Those guys can't be that bad. Look at WoW, for Chris' sake.

CCP could do so much with the current game, including killing lag and rolling in many, many more subscriptions. Hell, just shard hisec. Not losec or nulsec (though I see no reason to even have losec if it isn't a FW zone). Let it replicate the system. If 40 people on one node start to cause problems, then offer several 'copy' systems for the player to use.

Poof. No more lag in Jita. No more lage in hisec. And room to add 100k more subscribers, easy.


I think you both miss the point of EVE - everything - market, mining, territory, exploration, moons, ratting is in competition with another player. Not alway violent, but there's only _so_ many miners a given system can support for mining. If someone else moves in, you have a resource contention.

That resource contention is good. It's the point of the whole game. Missions break this model - the agent has an infinite supply of them, all at the same quality. There is quite literally no reason not to use the highest QL agent you can, and so places like Motsu are heaving. Actually, that's a not entirely the case. There is a reason, it's called having to move out, because all the others looking to get their piece of the pie are causing lag. But really, do you want a game element balance on the people most prepared to put up with lag?

Missions would be far better off as a contended resource, because that way it'd be necessary to spread out more - balance the location, with the paycheque.

And dear Gods, did you really just suggest sharding highsec, because 'it's what WOW does'? Seriously, there's a reason we're playing EVE, and not WOW. I guarantee if they turn EVE into WOW 1.2, they will _not_ get more subscribers, they'll get less - as people will, in fact, go back to WOW.

Tratis Sykes
Gallente
T.E.R.R.A
INDUSTRIAL REV0LUTI0N
Posted - 2008.08.22 07:01:00 - [79]
 

All we need is da SIGNIFICANT Nerf of ppl, who demanding SIGNIFICANT Nerfs to Lvl 4 Missions in High Sec..

HenkieBoy
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.08.22 07:16:00 - [80]
 

Discussion topic

Guys, there is a topic about it already.. please use that one as thats the forum that the CSM uses to gather information to relay to CCP.

Lazuran
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.08.22 07:33:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Kwedaras
Risk vs Reward.


There's no such thing in EVE, you can cover all losses with GTC=>ISK (and don't tell me about hitting the RL wallet, it's peanuts).

Maria Kalista
Amarr
Knights of Kador
Posted - 2008.08.22 07:46:00 - [82]
 

Discussion topic




Heck the OP even contributed to this (linked) topic, why do you open an exact same thread is beyond me.

Pr0cy0n
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.08.22 08:11:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: James Lyrus

And dear Gods, did you really just suggest sharding highsec, because 'it's what WOW does'? Seriously, there's a reason we're playing EVE, and not WOW. I guarantee if they turn EVE into WOW 1.2, they will _not_ get more subscribers, they'll get less - as people will, in fact, go back to WOW.


The reason I play eve is because I enjoy space games, not fapping over night elves, and i'm not going to suddenly turn to wow just because i'm in to mmog's.

I really don't understand why people care so much about mission runners. I play eve to enjoy myself, not to whine about other people making more money than me.


It would be nice to know how much of the actual player base are active on these forums, because someone previously linked to the whine thread for nerfing level 4's so we can take it to a csm -> ccp, but to me it seems that would be completely bias towards the whiners, so for ccp to change anything based on that would be slightly sickening.

Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
Posted - 2008.08.22 08:16:00 - [84]
 

The funny thing is, anytime you say "i make x isk running missions in level4!", there's some or many guys going "Haha, noob, i make double that ratting in 0.0".

Yet, somehow profit is a problem? Please Very Happy

Dracorimus
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.08.22 08:24:00 - [85]
 

Seriously leave EVE if you dont like it, why should people who play this game be told where to play and how to suit your needs.

If you dont like having no isk, or 0.0 is too scary for you, GTFO, or leave the game.
I get plenty of isk (More than lvl 4's) ratting in 0.0, much more per hour than lvl 4, I make around 35m per hour just in bounties, never mind the salvage.

I also run lvl 4's, and I think they are more than worth the hour or so per mission for what the reward is, sure there is not more risk as in 0.0, but such is the nature of this game.

Now please, enough of these stupid attempts to ruin eve more than it already is.

You would have been REALLY p****d if you were playing a few years ago when lvl 4's really were Isk printing machines, they already had there BIG nerf, theres no need to touch them now.

either run missions yourself, or be happy with what you chose to do with this game, not force people into something they do not all wish to do (PVP).

Not everyone can play 23/7 unlike some, some are only casual players who login to pew pew some missions, just because they dont come to your low sec system so your lame ass gangs can gank the crap outta them, doesnt mean they should be forced to stop playing the game the way THEY wish to.

F**K you people annoy me. Rolling Eyes


Mikal Drey
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2008.08.22 08:42:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Xevan Templar
EVE whine generator



if you/anyone makes this spinable I'll give you 100mil

Xevan Templar
Gallente
7th Batavian Squadron
Posted - 2008.08.22 09:16:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Mikal Drey
Originally by: Xevan Templar
EVE whine generator



if you/anyone makes this spinable I'll give you 100mil


It's a photoshop file, so I can rotate it easy (all different layers and text attached to the wheel) and make another picture. However I lack the knowledge to make it an interactive wheel, but if anyone can I happely send the original file. For free ! Wink


Kazang
Wrecking Shots
Posted - 2008.08.22 09:36:00 - [88]
 

Edited by: Kazang on 22/08/2008 09:37:30
Originally by: Kwedaras
Risk vs Reward.

Fun and playable game Verses elitism and bitterness

Thirzarr
Posted - 2008.08.22 09:46:00 - [89]
 

This makes no sense:

Mission Running ships are EXPENSIVE. Thats one of the reasons why you don't risk them in lowsec. Running level 4 missions like you suggest - for >20 mio per hour - takes what?

1 CNR ~ 450 mio.
2 faction hardeners 20 mio a piece. => 80 mio.
1 faction invul => 300 mio.
1 gist shieldbooster (to make room for BCUs) => 600-900 mio.
+ stuff like launchers, bcus, salvageship, ..., crystal set.

And you want someone who got this doing LESS than the 20 mio an hour to risk this in low sec? Are you honestly saying that would be a good idea?

Mission ships are highly optimized, very expensive thingies, you do not go and risk to meet some speed-bug-abusing, cheap **** (yes, your 1 bill vagabond is cheap ****) bored pirates to destroy MONTHS of play and have them then go "lol stupid carebear".

Its a different style of gameplay to do PvE in eve. Its NOT BROKEN!

Maximillian Bayonette
White Lion Manufacture and Salvage
Posted - 2008.08.22 10:00:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Thirzarr
This makes no sense:

Mission Running ships are EXPENSIVE. Thats one of the reasons why you don't risk them in lowsec. Running level 4 missions like you suggest - for >20 mio per hour - takes what?

1 CNR ~ 450 mio.
2 faction hardeners 20 mio a piece. => 80 mio.
1 faction invul => 300 mio.
1 gist shieldbooster (to make room for BCUs) => 600-900 mio.
+ stuff like launchers, bcus, salvageship, ..., crystal set.

And you want someone who got this doing LESS than the 20 mio an hour to risk this in low sec? Are you honestly saying that would be a good idea?

Mission ships are highly optimized, very expensive thingies, you do not go and risk to meet some speed-bug-abusing, cheap **** (yes, your 1 bill vagabond is cheap ****) bored pirates to destroy MONTHS of play and have them then go "lol stupid carebear".


Here's my level 4 Raven (this one optimized for low sec):

6x 'arbalest' cruiser missile launcher, Tractor Beam, prototype cloaking device
XL shield booster (named or T2), 3 rat specific hardeners (T2 or named), 2x cap recharger II
2x BCS (t2 or named), 2x Capacitor Power relay II, 2x PDS II

Rigs: 3x Capacitor Control Circuit (about 16 mil each)

After insurance, the loss of one of these would be around 40 mil. The cloak gives you a lot more safety though.

Originally by: Thirzarr

Its a different style of gameplay to do PvE in eve. Its NOT BROKEN!


It's a gameplay that conflicts with all other types of gameplay in the game and it IS BROKEN!


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