open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Why we need a SIGNIFICANT nerf on lvl4s in hisec.
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 15 16 17 18 [19] 20 21 22 23 ... : last (43)

Author Topic

Maximillian Bayonette
White Lion Manufacture and Salvage
Posted - 2008.08.26 12:09:00 - [541]
 

Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette
This thread is a good indication that a lot of the player base has had enough and now demand changes.

As Ruze has commented before, would people stop trying to claim the majority high-ground here please? We're all entitled to our opinion but if you total up the number of posters in this thread, it maybe comes to 100-200, out of 200000 accounts. Less than 0.1%. Nobody here can claim their point is the majority one.


Highlighted the important part.

Chillshock
Posted - 2008.08.26 12:11:00 - [542]
 

No one will play victim.

Thats all it comes down to.

Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.08.26 12:13:00 - [543]
 

Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 26/08/2008 12:15:05
Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette
This thread is a good indication that a lot of the player base has had enough and now demand changes.

As Ruze has commented before, would people stop trying to claim the majority high-ground here please? We're all entitled to our opinion but if you total up the number of posters in this thread, it maybe comes to 100-200, out of 200000 accounts. Less than 0.1%. Nobody here can claim their point is the majority one.


Highlighted the important part.


You missed explaining how your linkage of a thread and a lot of the player base defeats my point that threads on forums don't represent the player base. If English is not your first language, then perhaps I'm reading something into it, but here's it broken down for you:

Player-base: the sum total of people who play EVE.
A lot of the player-base: the majority of the above.
This thread is an indication of the opinion of a lot of the player-base: Suggestion that the majority feels a particular way due to a much smaller vocal group on a thread.

And I'm saying it's rubbish. Do explain in equivalent logic steps how I'm wrong and you know the opinion of 200000+ players?

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2008.08.26 12:16:00 - [544]
 

Originally by: Chillshock
No one will play victim.

Thats all it comes down to.


People play victim every day. Particularly those who refuse to accept that PvP is a basis for this entire game.

It's just that they choose to.


To Astria and Max, the truth is, we don't know how many people support either side, and it doesn't really matter, does it? A lot post for the idea, but alot post against, or not even about the entire topic (as the above poster has shown).

If it comes down to that, all we do is have a bunch of alts posting trying to look good. I pay for three accounts. That's nine total characters I could make 'support' this idea. As you can see, that's completely bunk, because the forum community is only a portion of the playerbase, anyhow.

We're not winning or losing a democratic battle of popularity, here. It's either a good discussion, with worthwhile delimas, or it's not. And that's not up to the players to decide, but CCP. Otherwise, we're just forum wh*ring, no?

Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.08.26 12:20:00 - [545]
 

Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 26/08/2008 12:20:40
Originally by: Ruze
We're not winning or losing a democratic battle of popularity, here. It's either a good discussion, with worthwhile delimas, or it's not. And that's not up to the players to decide, but CCP. Otherwise, we're just forum wh*ring, no?

That was my point, even if badly expressed. However emotive use of language to suggest a given point of view is in the majority is a popular tactic when debating, and when clearly false should be called into question.

The majority of my posts (heh, yes this time I can use that word legitimately) particularly the later ones would show that in all cases I try to express the view of me, those I know, and if I draw parallels I always phrase it as something like 'I suspect this group might...'. Flowery language? Sure, but it beats getting into these pointless 'my gang's bigger than yours' arguments.

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2008.08.26 12:24:00 - [546]
 

Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 26/08/2008 12:20:40
Originally by: Ruze
We're not winning or losing a democratic battle of popularity, here. It's either a good discussion, with worthwhile delimas, or it's not. And that's not up to the players to decide, but CCP. Otherwise, we're just forum wh*ring, no?

That was my point, even if badly expressed. However emotive use of language to suggest a given point of view is in the majority is a popular tactic when debating, and when clearly false should be called into question.

The majority of my posts (heh, yes this time I can use that word legitimately) particularly the later ones would show that in all cases I try to express the view of me, those I know, and if I draw parallels I always phrase it as something like 'I suspect this group might...'. Flowery language? Sure, but it beats getting into these pointless 'my gang's bigger than yours' arguments.


Same here. 'Here's how I see it' or 'this is my opinion.' I also try to be very careful about making things seem like 'facts', when in truth they are only 'educated guesses'.

One 'fact' I love to argue on is the 'fact' that hisec has the higher playerbase, and the following assumption that there are so many people in hisec because they don't want to PvP.

There's so many ways to twist that data CCP released (saying that almost 50% of the playerbase spent the majority of it's time in hisec), that you can make it sound any way you want.

Maximillian Bayonette
White Lion Manufacture and Salvage
Posted - 2008.08.26 12:35:00 - [547]
 

Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
You missed explaining how your linkage of a thread and a lot of the player base defeats my point that threads on forums don't represent the player base. If English is not your first language, then perhaps I'm reading something into it, but here's it broken down for you:

Player-base: the sum total of people who play EVE.
A lot of the player-base: the majority of the above.
This thread is an indication of the opinion of a lot of the player-base: Suggestion that the majority feels a particular way due to a much smaller vocal group on a thread.

And I'm saying it's rubbish. Do explain in equivalent logic steps how I'm wrong and you know the opinion of 200000+ players?


You're right. Posts on forums don't represent the playerbase. However, it's the only inclination CCP has if something is amiss in the game. People complaining about stuff on the forums brought us WTZ. It brought us more CONCORD, titan nerfs, war dec changes, nano nerfs, lp stores, NOS nerfs and an extra turret on the Zealot. The reason for posting on the forums is to bring to CCP's attention that there might be a problem in the game. That doesn't mean there always is a problem, but it gets CCP's attention and might get them to check it out for themselves.

That's why a long thread like this is important for us advocating this change. It brings attention.

Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.08.26 12:37:00 - [548]
 

Originally by: Ruze
There's so many ways to twist that data CCP released (saying that almost 50% of the playerbase spent the majority of it's time in hisec), that you can make it sound any way you want.

Despite that, actually that's something I'd like to hear in the next economic report. A breakdown of wealth generation, divided into sector & activity and by those groupings, and so we can see where all the money is really moving and generating. It would help inform these debates a hell of a lot, even if you can draw unusual/unsubstantiated conclusions from them.

Heck I'd settle for missions vs ratting across sector and player-type (stays in high-sec all the time, has lost ships to other players etc.). The data is there to be mined after all.

Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.08.26 12:40:00 - [549]
 

Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette
However, it's the only inclination CCP has if something is amiss in the game. People complaining about stuff on the forums brought us WTZ. It brought us more CONCORD, titan nerfs, war dec changes, nano nerfs, lp stores, NOS nerfs and an extra turret on the Zealot. The reason for posting on the forums is to bring to CCP's attention that there might be a problem in the game. That doesn't mean there always is a problem, but it gets CCP's attention and might get them to check it out for themselves.

To an extent I suppose. I still remain of the view that actually CCP's actions have often been entirely their own, sometimes mirroring segments of the population, sometimes not. Sometimes they've entirely ignored major burning forum threads. It's a tough call, and only they know when they've genuinely reacted to player requests vs their own desires matching those requests (and for sure they're not going to tell us lol). I can accept the desire to make this a visible issue, however.

Dakess Athan
Posted - 2008.08.26 13:05:00 - [550]
 

Edited by: Dakess Athan on 26/08/2008 13:16:21
Well I for one believe that lv 4s should be moved out of high sec. Empire should serve as a starting area and not be profitable to
stay in your entire gaming career. There are so many ways people can run missions in low sec with ease if they have the initiative

to watch after their own tails. For 1 the simplest thing a missioner can do in low sec is watch his local, if a flashy guy comes
in they are probably looking for you. And 2nd of all a missioners best friend is his scanner, but most it seems fail at using it

because of the nonchalantness of high sec. But there is no way a missioner should be caught in low sec if he knows what hes doing because its as simple as setting your scanner to a low range such as 2 or 3 au and watching it. If a group of people show up on

your scanner and your 10 au out from the system then hey guess what they are coming to your mission. And if you are still skeptical you can lower it even more to a few 100,000 kms and if they show up guess what your busted get out, even cloakers will

show up on scanner to use the accel gate, and you can mess the cloakers up even more by dropping a can or 2 at the accel gate warp in point. So if people get initiative to watch their own hides and quit being nubbish and careless this wouldn't really be too much of an issue.

Maximillian Bayonette
White Lion Manufacture and Salvage
Posted - 2008.08.26 13:20:00 - [551]
 

Originally by: Dakess Athan
Edited by: Dakess Athan on 26/08/2008 13:16:21
Well I for one believe that lv 4s should be moved out of high sec. Empire should serve as a starting area and not be profitable to
stay in your entire gaming career. There are so many ways people can run missions in low sec with ease if they have the initiative

to watch after their own tails. For 1 the simplest thing a missioner can do in low sec is watch his local, if a flashy guy comes
in they are probably looking for you. And 2nd of all a missioners best friend is his scanner, but most it seems fail at using it

because of the nonchalantness of high sec. But there is no way a missioner should be caught in low sec if he knows what hes doing because its as simple as setting your scanner to a low range such as 2 or 3 au and watching it. If a group of people show up on

your scanner and your 10 au out from the system then hey guess what they are coming to your mission. And if you are still skeptical you can lower it even more to a few 100,000 kms and if they show up guess what your busted get out, even cloakers will

show up on scanner to use the accel gate, and you can mess the cloakers up even more by dropping a can or 2 at the accel gate warp in point. So if people get initiative to watch their own hides and quit being nubbish and careless this wouldn't really be too much of an issue.


I must say that's

a clever way of using para-

-graphs.

5pinDizzy
Amarr
Pillow Fighters Inc
Posted - 2008.08.26 13:41:00 - [552]
 

I'm not sure if I like all of these ideas. lowsec is already bit too crowded at times for my liking.

I simply don't think lowsec is big enough to handle the extra population and reward bonuses some of you seem to be after.

Some of you have made some very good idea for balance changes.

Just don't try and change and break existing mechanics to suit the fact that local is the ultimate intel tool.

Local is the problem and what needs to be changed, not everything else to suit it.

Ghengis Tia
Posted - 2008.08.26 13:45:00 - [553]
 

Only read OP. I disagree.

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2008.08.26 13:50:00 - [554]
 

Originally by: 5pinDizzy
I'm not sure if I like all of these ideas. lowsec is already bit too crowded at times for my liking.

I simply don't think lowsec is big enough to handle the extra population and reward bonuses some of you seem to be after.

Some of you have made some very good idea for balance changes.

Just don't try and change and break existing mechanics to suit the fact that local is the ultimate intel tool.

Local is the problem and what needs to be changed, not everything else to suit it.


First, losec makes up, what were the figures, 12% of all space? Meanwhile, hisec makes up 22%? So your one point about it being an issue of space is a very valid one.

Secondly, local is the root of so many problems it's not even funny. Local is, in short, the root of all evil. And it's a crutch that players defend violently when you suggest to take it away.

'Changing local' posts are not only more common, but more flame ridden and full of idiocy than the 'nerf hisec' posts ever could be. Nobody wants to get rid fo their infinite lazy man's intel tool. They rely on it way to much, and rely on other players inability to pay attention to it.

Local is responsible for overpowering piracy, cloak games, third-part snoop programs, alt abuse, etc, etc, etc.

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2008.08.26 13:52:00 - [555]
 

Originally by: Ghengis Tia
Only read OP. I disagree.


It's funny, but I can respect this more than someone who throws baseless accusations around.

'I disagree' is far more informative than 'pirate revenge thread'. One's a contribution, however light. The other is a detriment to the whole forum community.

Duncan MacPherson
Minmatar
Avatars of Ore
Posted - 2008.08.26 14:06:00 - [556]
 

I have a question. Seems to me that there is a group of people here that want folks to leave Empire space and get out more. I for one have no problem with this. I myself hang out in low sec about 50% of my game time in EvE. Low sec for me doesn't seem any different than Empire except if I am afk someone can gank me.

But say for a player like me or a smaller corp that would have no problems moving out of empire - where can we go? Low sec doesn't provide with enough of a reward over empire to justify the danger. Null space is totally out. Null space is pretty much the good ole boys club. Huge alliances fully entrenched that will only ever be pushed out by another huge alliance. Even if say my corp wanted to move to null space...how? Pull a bunch of capital ships out of my pocket to push these old corps out? Not ever going to happen. Oh wait I know - I can dissolve my corp and meld it into one of the old big ones. Oh thats just fantastic - NOT. Oh I know... I can pay these large corps hundreds of millions for the right of basking in their glow only to be podded after paying and getting all the ships out there.

IMO the problem with people staying in Empire isn't one of - We are all going to do all these awesome lvl 4s that pay tons. Cause if I was doing it for the isk I would mine all day and make more money. 2 hulks + itty V does that. The problem with Empire is the people there have no where to go. We are called care bears - called weak - made fun of because we don't fly out and die. Makes alot of sense to me. Only way small corps can even enjoy the rewards of null space is with wolf packs made up of small fast ships that can go deep - rat till they die and start over in Empire.

I know me and several others in this game that would love to move out. But we can't. We have no options.

Kage Psychodin
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.08.26 14:51:00 - [557]
 

Okay. this needs to stop. even off the BEST level 4s and going nonstop you will to out at about 10-20M isk an hour in a raven. ( Closer to the 10M, and yes, quite a few people have CNRs. Sorry, they don't really count.)
Second off, there really does need to be a limit to how slow isk comes in. Its the barrier that keeps most people out of PvP combat, which to many IS the only fun there is to be found in all of EVE. (And to be perfectly honest, some lone player could come back every day in a brand new carrier out in the suck nullsec space where we live after we blow him up, just more chances to blow up yet another carrier and have fun doing it.)
I've been here since early 2007. Missioning is not fun. Mining is not fun. Logistics is not fun, in any shape or form right down to running the occasional gate camp. (Although it DOES get the blood pumping and thats nice once in a while.)
Ratting isn't really fun either. And even in the best of space and setups, level 4 missions are never worth sharing, even to increase the speed in lowsec. if the rewards in lowsec and 0.0 increased for missions to match the number of people actually running as a unique feature different than the way it works in empire, AND missions got changed quite a bit, I'd see that being much better, and then MAYBE a level 4 nerf could be looked at. Change in missions so that there's fewer enemies, but you might bounce around between 5-10 tiny mission areas, and actually have to web and disrupt your opponent to kill them like a real opponent, and tanking styles that supports PvP style tanks for the missions, that would fix it a lot.)

Just to make sure this is perfectly clear, I'm well aware losing a ship should hurt. But even for that nice polycarbon'd vagabond, if you're out of the game for more than a day doing something you don't like, that's really not RISK versus reward at all. the only reward is the generally risky combat itself. 17 drakes and 30 rapiers in my imaginary super hangar are pointless if they have no use, but likewise I still really need them, entirely. (I have 7 drakes and one Rapier)

So, people who shout for these nerfs, if they're done, how will you fix missions in lowsec and 0.0 then to compensate for being terrible as an alternative and insanely risky to the point where its not worth the time (and not worth sticking around in EVE.)

Maximillian Bayonette
White Lion Manufacture and Salvage
Posted - 2008.08.26 15:04:00 - [558]
 

Originally by: Kage Psychodin
Okay. this needs to stop.


It will stop once CCP nerfs highsec.

Originally by: Kage Psychodin

even off the BEST level 4s and going nonstop you will to out at about 10-20M isk an hour in a raven. ( Closer to the 10M, and yes, quite a few people have CNRs. Sorry, they don't really count.)


Then you are a bad mission runner. I run level 4 missions in a .9 system using a T1/T2 fitted raven and I pull in over 20M and hour. And, yes, CNR pilots count. Why wouldn't they?

Originally by: Kage Psychodin

Second off, there really does need to be a limit to how slow isk comes in.


Why are you talking about a limit? Are you saying, there should be a limit to how few missions are flewn each day, or how few rats are killed? How could CCP ever set up such a limit when it is all based on players' actions?

Originally by: Kage Psychodin

Its the barrier that keeps most people out of PvP combat, which to many IS the only fun there is to be found in all of EVE. (And to be perfectly honest, some lone player could come back every day in a brand new carrier out in the suck nullsec space where we live after we blow him up, just more chances to blow up yet another carrier and have fun doing it.)


Are you telling me that the space you live in can provide a solo player with enough resources to get a carrier every day? If so, you're lying.

Originally by: Kage Psychodin

And even in the best of space and setups, level 4 missions are never worth sharing, even to increase the speed in lowsec. if the rewards in lowsec and 0.0 increased for missions to match the number of people actually running as a unique feature different than the way it works in empire, AND missions got changed quite a bit, I'd see that being much better, and then MAYBE a level 4 nerf could be looked at.


Let me see if I understand you here. You want to buff low sec and 0.0 and change the way missions work to make them more fun? Assuming this is what you said, you are fine with people out in low sec and 0.0 making much more than you do in high sec, but you are not fine with high sec paying much less than 0.0 and low sec?

Originally by: Kage Psychodin

Change in missions so that there's fewer enemies, but you might bounce around between 5-10 tiny mission areas, and actually have to web and disrupt your opponent to kill them like a real opponent, and tanking styles that supports PvP style tanks for the missions, that would fix it a lot.)


That would fix the "missions are boring" part. It would not fix the "missions are imbalanced" part.

Originally by: Kage Psychodin

Just to make sure this is perfectly clear, I'm well aware losing a ship should hurt. But even for that nice polycarbon'd vagabond, if you're out of the game for more than a day doing something you don't like, that's really not RISK versus reward at all. the only reward is the generally risky combat itself. 17 drakes and 30 rapiers in my imaginary super hangar are pointless if they have no use, but likewise I still really need them, entirely. (I have 7 drakes and one Rapier)


"Don't fly what you can't afford to lose" is one of the corner stones of Eve. PvP won't stop because missions are nerfed. PvP will just become more dynamic and less "must have T2/Faction in order to compete".

Originally by: Kage Psychodin

So, people who shout for these nerfs, if they're done, how will you fix missions in lowsec and 0.0 then to compensate for being terrible as an alternative and insanely risky to the point where its not worth the time (and not worth sticking around in EVE.)


Boost low sec a bit (not missions so much, but ratting and exploration), leave 0.0 as it is. That's all that's needed if they nerf high sec.

I can't understand the argument that it's ok to boost low sec and 0.0 but it's not ok to nerf high sec. IT'S THE SAME DAMN THING, but one of them messes up the economy and the other does not.



Maximillian Bayonette
White Lion Manufacture and Salvage
Posted - 2008.08.26 15:16:00 - [559]
 

Originally by: Duncan MacPherson

But say for a player like me or a smaller corp that would have no problems moving out of empire - where can we go?


You can go to one of the hundreds of almost completely empty lowsec systems scattered around New Eden. They normally have stations with good services, and the few locals that are there are often quite friendly and happy to see some new faces that aren't pirates. Then you start a cooperation with these locals and make sure your home is protected. How's that?

Originally by: Duncan MacPherson

Low sec doesn't provide with enough of a reward over empire to justify the danger.


Which is the problem we are trying to correct. Low sec needs a small boost, but that won't be enough. It will still be better to grind away in high sec. That's why high sec needs a nerf. Badly.

Originally by: Duncan MacPherson

Null space is totally out. Null space is pretty much the good ole boys club. Huge alliances fully entrenched that will only ever be pushed out by another huge alliance.


This is sadly the truth at the moment. CCP has been giving 0.0 alliances tools to grab and hold much more space than they can use, and still keep it clear of anyone wanting a piece. It's just the way it is until CCP gives us more 0.0 to play with.

Originally by: Duncan MacPherson

Even if say my corp wanted to move to null space...how? Pull a bunch of capital ships out of my pocket to push these old corps out? Not ever going to happen. Oh wait I know - I can dissolve my corp and meld it into one of the old big ones. Oh thats just fantastic - NOT. Oh I know... I can pay these large corps hundreds of millions for the right of basking in their glow only to be podded after paying and getting all the ships out there.


Form up with some like minded corps into an alliance. Move this alliance to low sec and work on securing that space. Gradually build up, and sooner or later you will be ready to take the big plunge. By that time 0.0 might have gotten bigger, or you might be sufficiently large (or have enough blues) to grab a piece. 0.0 is the end goal for many fledgling alliances. It's nice to have something to look forward to.

Originally by: Duncan MacPherson

IMO the problem with people staying in Empire isn't one of - We are all going to do all these awesome lvl 4s that pay tons. Cause if I was doing it for the isk I would mine all day and make more money. 2 hulks + itty V does that.


Well, if you have three mission runners grinding missions you will make more than those 2 hulks and the itty V. Missions pay more than high sec mining. A lot more.

Originally by: Duncan MacPherson

The problem with Empire is the people there have no where to go. We are called care bears - called weak - made fun of because we don't fly out and die. Makes alot of sense to me. Only way small corps can even enjoy the rewards of null space is with wolf packs made up of small fast ships that can go deep - rat till they die and start over in Empire.


You are called weak and made fun of for good reason. You are locked in a way of thinking that will never get you that coveted spot amongst the big boys. Doing that takes a lot of effort. It's way harder than Angels Extravaganza bonus room even.

Originally by: Duncan MacPherson

I know me and several others in this game that would love to move out. But we can't. We have no options.


I've just suggested a bunch of options to you. Free of charge.


knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
Posted - 2008.08.26 15:29:00 - [560]
 

No one has still put up a good reason to nerf level 4's in high sec.

All people have done is point out more rewards are needed in low sec/0.0. That said, faction gear is from low sec and its the lvl4 mission runners that pay the ridiculous amounts to buy that faction gear found in low sec. Lvl4's drive the economy, remove them from high sec and the entire EVE economy will fall on its a@@.

Traidor Disloyal
Private Nuisance
Segregati0n
Posted - 2008.08.26 15:31:00 - [561]
 

Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette
The reason for posting on the forums is to bring to CCP's attention that there might be a problem in the game. That doesn't mean there always is a problem, but it gets CCP's attention and might get them to check it out for themselves.

That's why a long thread like this is important for us advocating this change. It brings attention.


Game needs more chocolate cake and butter pecan ice cream. The ice cream needs chocolate topping on it. I prefer the hardshell kind. CCP, get it done.

DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
Posted - 2008.08.26 15:38:00 - [562]
 

Aww shucks. These are the cutest logical fallacies I've ever seen.

"But if you remove lvl 4's from empire, people will quit!"

Sorry peaches and co, the goal of any change isn't to stop people from quitting. Its to make the game better.

I'm willing to sacrifice people that don't matter for duty, honour, and lawls _o7

ARE YOU>?>?>

Tatsujin Koufu
Posted - 2008.08.26 15:39:00 - [563]
 

Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Aww shucks. These are the cutest logical fallacies I've ever seen.

"But if you remove lvl 4's from empire, people will quit!"

Sorry peaches and co, the goal of any change isn't to stop people from quitting. Its to make the game better.

I'm willing to sacrifice people that don't matter for duty, honour, and lawls _o7

ARE YOU>?>?>


Thats not really a question for the players now is it? Its a question for CCP

DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
Posted - 2008.08.26 15:40:00 - [564]
 

Originally by: knobber Jobbler
No one has still put up a good reason to nerf level 4's in high sec.


Say it louder and more often. It might come true! ++Hope;

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2008.08.26 15:42:00 - [565]
 

Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Aww shucks. These are the cutest logical fallacies I've ever seen.

"But if you remove lvl 4's from empire, people will quit!"

Sorry peaches and co, the goal of any change isn't to stop people from quitting. Its to make the game better.

I'm willing to sacrifice people that don't matter for duty, honour, and lawls _o7

ARE YOU>?>?>


DigitalCommunist. I know your name. With my memory, that means something. Who are you, and why are you being mean to the 'Golden Goose' crowd?

Yeah, '03 player, used to be in m0o. Were you a part of the old CONCORD tank and gank, by chance?

Just trying to place names and faces. It's not easy for me, so please be kind. Thanks!

Kwedaras
Amarr
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.08.26 15:43:00 - [566]
 

Originally by: knobber Jobbler
No one has still put up a good reason to nerf level 4's in high sec.

All people have done is point out more rewards are needed in low sec/0.0. That said, faction gear is from low sec and its the lvl4 mission runners that pay the ridiculous amounts to buy that faction gear found in low sec. Lvl4's drive the economy, remove them from high sec and the entire EVE economy will fall on its a@@.


yeah, well, all of these Caldari Navy cruise missile launchers you just bought today for your CNR was found in a wreck of one of countles npc frigates wreck. true story.


Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2008.08.26 15:45:00 - [567]
 

Originally by: Tatsujin Koufu
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Aww shucks. These are the cutest logical fallacies I've ever seen.

"But if you remove lvl 4's from empire, people will quit!"

Sorry peaches and co, the goal of any change isn't to stop people from quitting. Its to make the game better.

I'm willing to sacrifice people that don't matter for duty, honour, and lawls _o7

ARE YOU>?>?>


Thats not really a question for the players now is it? Its a question for CCP


I think making missions challenging again will actually boost mission runners enjoyment and increase sub figures.

The adrenalin rush you get when your ship is at risk, the buzz you get from devising tactics and changing them on the fly to defeat your foes. These shouldnt be the sole domain of the PVP'er. The PVE player should have access to this which is one of the main reasons eve is enjoyable to play.

SKUNK


DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
Posted - 2008.08.26 15:50:00 - [568]
 

Hi Ruze. You may know me from such popular episodes as m0o, The Great Northern War, BURN EDEN BEATDOWN '04, kicking ass at the Jovian event, kicking ass at the Colossus race, IRC fascism, the UQS/GHSC heist, FZN + drama, EC-P8R megablob, the destruction of 2 original goon corps and GS v1.0, the death of ASCN, F-TE1T titan spook, 9-98 cap cluster****, and 6 million words describing how carebears are the sub-human cancer of EVE. o/

Sanzorz
Amarr
Mark Of Chaos
Posted - 2008.08.26 15:54:00 - [569]
 

I don't see the problem with lvl 4 missions. Ofcourse I do these myself and I rarely pvp. Pvp just ain't my type as I like a more cooled gameplay and chitchat with friends while having a bit of fun. Level 4 missions does yield some ISK, but it takes alot of time depending on your race, path and playing time. The nonesense about all the people saying you net in alot of ISK don't fact it out it takes alot of skills and equipment to get this speed.
The skills takes time and the equipment is t2 minimum and faction gear. I can't post any facts, but I'm quite sure most faction gear is from lowsec or 0.0 as they have alot better complexes and good chance of finding faction spawns. Here you already have a balance of people buying modules and supporting the faction farmers with ISK for any kind of pvp, if they do that.

Taking down highsec to a lesser degree might not hurt alot, but some people might think of it non worthy and quit. Why? For starters people like me can't play constantly due to work or having an urge to play another game. There's been alot of ideas from highsec taxing, less reward and the alike to move people into low. I doubt many will move to low, because you have a risk of getting your ship blown up and then you are back to farming for a new ship. Avoiding this means you have to spend time being alert, get into a corp for protection (if possible due to lack of playtime). There is alot of management to keep a lowsec "safe", because this is the only method to make lowsec enjoyable as a casual. I hate the part with people saying you can just keep aligned in missions and constantly scan for intruders, because this breaks the gameplay in a few ways. Pirates can camp the mission site and you're forced to give it up and go on. Standing hits are the ouch. It's very annoying having to warp in and out everytime someone poke their nose in the range of your scanner.

Another thing is that lowsec requires a totally different fitting layout. You'll have less casual people fitting faction gear, you'll have to either fit a buffer or tank ALL damage types when in low. Both damages your mission running in many matters.

The last thing will be an absurd change on the Market. Rigs and faction gear will be used and the current trading in highsec might change entirely...I dunno if hubs will change, but it will have to be alot of transporting inbetween with alts, if people have to go pirates on each other every day and get security standing hits.

This might be mild to many people, but the word THINK is being used alot in these threads these days, so I'll dare to say that I think EVE has alot of casual players.

DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
Posted - 2008.08.26 15:56:00 - [570]
 

Originally by: Tatsujin Koufu
Thats not really a question for the players now is it? Its a question for CCP


Nope. Their job is to make the best possible game from our millions of dollars, youth, failed marriages and firstborn children. Sometimes that means taking a financial hit in the present to preserve the future. Sometimes that means ignoring the ignorant and selfish majority. Sometimes that means playing their game, ignoring Accounting, and realizing how superbly right I am.


Pages: first : previous : ... 15 16 17 18 [19] 20 21 22 23 ... : last (43)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only