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Duncan MacPherson
Minmatar
Avatars of Ore
Posted - 2008.08.25 18:38:00 - [481]
 

Originally by: Taco Raptorian


It is the relative difference to others that is the big thing. You are forced to do this or else suffer the consequences of bad income.

I am speaking about my own point of view in low sec. If you "only" make 30-50 mil in a weekend I have a hard time countering that because I happen to live in another place in space. Yes I have chosen to live there but still shouldn't I be able to compete since we are actually playing the same game? Do we all have to do the same thing to be on equal terms?

What we can do in this game is unfortunately run by our wallets.
---


and a month ago I was in a .3 system - fought a True Sans and got a BPC drop worth about 250 mil.

Nerf Low Sec! All those guys making money down there.


Drunk Driver
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.08.25 19:01:00 - [482]
 

Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: Duncan MacPherson
Originally by: Ruze

Heh, you don't think the other crowd, the 'Please daddy, the other players are being mean and hurting me' isn't just as funny?

You can't see them at the moment, cause we're a little overloaded with the 'nerf mission wh*res', but the 'all PvP is evil' crowd is just as entertaining.

What's more fun is to join in and make an internal mockery of both arguments, in my book.


Both groups of people are equally annoying and idiotic. I may be a care bear empire hugger.. but the first thing I did in this game was learn how to PVP. Skill up for pvp skills/ships/mods. Its no secret that CCP made this a PVP game first and foremost. Anyone with half a brain cell realizes this and needs to adjust for it. But the other side of the coin people need to realize the majority of the people who play MMOs, any MMOs, do so as a PVE player. CCP has to cater to these people if they want people to play. The PVP crowd shouts nerf PVE and all it does is show them for the dolts they are.


I find it funny, taking the current 'nerf level 4s' topic ... the posts where I side with the 'leave carebears alone' argument, the post lasts, at most, five or six pages.

But no, when I'm siding with the 'nerf carebears' crowd, it goes on for 20 pages.

What the hell?






You might want to read the post you just quoted. It has the answer.

Laughing



.

Mordican
Posted - 2008.08.25 19:43:00 - [483]
 

Edited by: Mordican on 25/08/2008 19:46:49
Shard the server?

Carebear Server - anything currently lowsec status converts to 0.5 status. Chop Nullsec in half and convert it to the new Lowsec. Extend Concord to 0.1 systems, but delay their response time considerably in the 0.1 systems. 0.0 politics remain as they are. Security restrictions still will not let pirates into Highsec level space.

Main Server - Leave it the way it is.

Weather you like it or not CCP has to balence both ends of the population. Yes Eve is a sandbox, but the casual people who like to fly spaceships make up a large portion of the population. They avoid Lowsec/pirates because they do not want to deal with them. Co-op L4's or solo, doesn't matter. If you nerf Highsec across the board to make Lowsec more tempting, one of two things willl happen. They adjust to the new economics of Highsec space, the market adjusts accordingly, and you are back to where you started. Or there is a mass exodus of people that no longer feel they want to play because of the changes and the market adjusts to the level that the people staying behind make of it.

Mistress Evita
Caldari
Booze and Hookers
Posted - 2008.08.25 20:15:00 - [484]
 

Originally by: Ruze
Heh, you don't think the other crowd, the 'Please daddy, the other players are being mean and hurting me' isn't just as funny?

You can't see them at the moment, cause we're a little overloaded with the 'nerf mission wh*res', but the 'all PvP is evil' crowd is just as entertaining.

What's more fun is to join in and make an internal mockery of both arguments, in my book.

I could but I would have to use the character I PvP with. Then I would get confused and and make fun of the wrong group thereby causing the heat death of the universe. And we sure has heck don't want that!

Either way CCP will decide what is best for the game based on what CCP thinks is best for the game and not what a subset of users thinks is best for their game. I am fairly certain that the people at CCP are in this to make money. To make money one has to please a majority of users. And from what I have seen in this game there are a lot of mission runners. There are the kind that all they do is run missions and there are the kind that run missions to get isk to do other things in the game.

But what do I know. I'm just someone who plays an internet spaceship game at night.

Dave Davies
Posted - 2008.08.25 20:27:00 - [485]
 

Originally by: Mistress Evita
To make money one has to please a majority of users. And from what I have seen in this game there are a lot of mission runners. There are the kind that all they do is run missions and there are the kind that run missions to get isk to do other things in the game.


Here's where that mobius strip goes:

Missions are the best way to make ISK by grinding -> more players run missions -> so many players run missions that we'd better not mess with missions -> missions are the best way to make ISK by grinding -> ad nauseam

The people who run missions "just because they love running missions" would probably be just as happy with reduced rewards and more content.

The people who run missions because they're currently the *****gun of isk grinding would bail for the new FotM the very second they discovered it.

Aria Seniste
Posted - 2008.08.25 20:32:00 - [486]
 

Originally by: Dave Davies
Originally by: Mistress Evita
To make money one has to please a majority of users. And from what I have seen in this game there are a lot of mission runners. There are the kind that all they do is run missions and there are the kind that run missions to get isk to do other things in the game.


Here's where that mobius strip goes:

Missions are the best way to make ISK by grinding -> more players run missions -> so many players run missions that we'd better not mess with missions -> missions are the best way to make ISK by grinding -> ad nauseam

The people who run missions "just because they love running missions" would probably be just as happy with reduced rewards and more content.

The people who run missions because they're currently the *****gun of isk grinding would bail for the new FotM the very second they discovered it.


It's not the best ISK.

It's just what happens when you, rather than making your own path, keep talking to agents and waiting for the NPCs to guide you on into greatness.

Mistress Evita
Caldari
Booze and Hookers
Posted - 2008.08.25 20:42:00 - [487]
 

Originally by: Dave Davies
The people who run missions "just because they love running missions" would probably be just as happy with reduced rewards and more content.

The people who run missions because they're currently the *****gun of isk grinding would bail for the new FotM the very second they discovered it.

Not sure if this is going to come across correctly but here goes:

Eve Online is an established MMO. It has a user base that is not getting smaller but is getting bigger, slowly. It seems to be making money (profit) or else the game would have been shut down a long time ago.

It would seem to me (and I sure has heck a lot of times don't know what I am talking about) that a company would not want to radically change a major part of the game on a whim. Level 4 missions in high sec are a major part of the game. The people in charge of the game would want to be able to provide the people who run these level 4 missions with another way of making isk in high sec. If they didn't do this they would need to be able to replace the lost users with other users who wouldn't mind the loss of high isk level 4 missions.

How to do that I have no clue (if I did I would be working for CCP right now). But saying to just reduce the payout from the Level 4 missions or telling CCP to move all level 4 agents out to low sec aint going to cut it from a business point of view.

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2008.08.25 20:43:00 - [488]
 

I'm still not convinced that 'mission runners' make up the 'majority of users'. At least, my definitions are different for each.

By 'mission runners', we don't include all hisec occupants. So very many of those hisec occupants are traders, or industrialists. On the other hand, the phrase 'mission runners' includes those who do only missions for the sake of enjoying doing missions, as well as those who live in other parts of the universe (as well as hisec) who do missions for the sake of making money.

Who's to say what group is the majority of users? The only sort of 'facts' I've seen was a release by CCP stating that nearly 50% of the playerbase spends the majority of their time in hisec. This could be read in many different ways, and takes into account many hisec activities that have nothing to do with missions, including hisec war decs and theft. The further problem is dictated that hisec doesn't mean 'PvE', as EvE provides numerous ways to have regular combat PvP in hisec, include pirate hunting, war decs, mercenary actions, theft prevention, and suicides.

Finally, we go into the mindset (one you'll notice is common with nearly every soul be they thinking of politics or video games) where we assume that our viewpoint is the 'majority'. We look around, and we make slight assumptions that help us justify that everyone believes as we do, and only very few disagree. We KNOW this, because everyone we ever talk to agrees with that (whereas we're not taking into account that we naturally associate with those of like interests, and with those who we have a tendancy to agree with).

Thus, I don't think CCP should 'cater' to any group of players. I don't think there are more pure carebears than pure pvpers. If anything, I would be sorely surprised if these groups werent equal.

At most, I would be safe in assuming that the vast 'majority' of players take part in many levels of activity, and that if a change was made to one specific area of gameplay (read 'suicide attacks' or 'nanos' or 'level 4 hisec missions'), it would cause only minor disturbances before the average user moves on and adapts.

Don't convince yourself that those who you disagree with must be a small group of people, simply because you see your own logic as infallible. And never assume you are the majority. Because life has a way of showing you just how lonely your particular ideals really are.

That's a life lesson too. If only more American's would learn it. Confused

Dave Davies
Posted - 2008.08.25 20:49:00 - [489]
 

Originally by: Aria Seniste

It's not the best ISK.

It's just what happens when you, rather than making your own path, keep talking to agents and waiting for the NPCs to guide you on into greatness.


It's true that it's not the best ISK. But it is better than some things that, aesthetically, it shouldn't be better than. 0.0 pilots jump cloning back in to run L4s rather than ratting? Lowsec pirates using their alts to run L4s rather than using them to exploit the resources of lowsec?

I don't know. Missioning does have a lot going for it that other activities don't and which help broaden its appeal; the most prominent one to me being a dual- duty skill tree. In order to trade, you have to train up a bunch of trade skills that don't do anything else. In order to mine, you have to train up a bunch of mining skills that don't do anything else. In order to invent... etc etc. With L4s however, it's like: "you mean I can get paid to train into a BS? COOL!" And that probably accounts for its popularity as much as anything else, and if it's supposed to help reinforce the necessity of training pvp skills then it (sort of) works.

But at the same time that situation also reinforces my perception that it pays entirely too much.

Dave Davies
Posted - 2008.08.25 20:57:00 - [490]
 

Originally by: Mistress Evita
How to do that I have no clue (if I did I would be working for CCP right now). But saying to just reduce the payout from the Level 4 missions or telling CCP to move all level 4 agents out to low sec aint going to cut it from a business point of view.


That's a fair point and well put to boot, but on the other side of the coin Eve was also apparently growing at times in the past when (or so it's said, I wasn't here) ISK wasn't as easy to make and equipment was a lot more expensive.

I'm not so sure that the kind of tightening of the ISK supply represented by a nerf to L4 payouts would cause the kind of mass exodus you may be implying it will; I think the core game is strong enough to survive a fluctuation in the economy, indeed it apparently has survived several just fine.

Mistress Evita
Caldari
Booze and Hookers
Posted - 2008.08.25 21:12:00 - [491]
 

Originally by: Dave Davies
Originally by: Mistress Evita
How to do that I have no clue (if I did I would be working for CCP right now). But saying to just reduce the payout from the Level 4 missions or telling CCP to move all level 4 agents out to low sec aint going to cut it from a business point of view.


That's a fair point and well put to boot, but on the other side of the coin Eve was also apparently growing at times in the past when (or so it's said, I wasn't here) ISK wasn't as easy to make and equipment was a lot more expensive.

I'm not so sure that the kind of tightening of the ISK supply represented by a nerf to L4 payouts would cause the kind of mass exodus you may be implying it will; I think the core game is strong enough to survive a fluctuation in the economy, indeed it apparently has survived several just fine.


CCP needs to be careful in what they change and how they change it. They need to be careful on major changes. They need to be careful on how they introduce changes. They need to do it slowly and they need to inform the user base what they are doing long before they do it. And I am not just talking about level 4 missions here.

If CCP wants to change level 4 missions I can not stop them from doing it. But if I think that CCP is screwing me over just to please someone else in game I may get mad and leave. That is just how people work. You take something away from them without explaining why you did it they just up and leave.

All I have to point to on how not to make major changes in a game is look at how Age of Conan was introduced. Radical changes without any major communications to the player base. I have never seen CCP do that and I hope I never will. I am fairly certain that if CCP does decide to change how level 4 missions work they will inform the player base long before it happens.

But then again I have been wrong about many things and I could be wrong about this.

Maximillian Bayonette
White Lion Manufacture and Salvage
Posted - 2008.08.25 21:15:00 - [492]
 

Originally by: Dave Davies
Originally by: Mistress Evita
To make money one has to please a majority of users. And from what I have seen in this game there are a lot of mission runners. There are the kind that all they do is run missions and there are the kind that run missions to get isk to do other things in the game.


Here's where that mobius strip goes:

Missions are the best way to make ISK by grinding -> more players run missions -> so many players run missions that we'd better not mess with missions -> missions are the best way to make ISK by grinding -> ad nauseam

The people who run missions "just because they love running missions" would probably be just as happy with reduced rewards and more content.

The people who run missions because they're currently the *****gun of isk grinding would bail for the new FotM the very second they discovered it.


This is an excellent explanation of the current situation, and of why "but most of Eve are running missions" isn't a good argument.

Nexus Kinnon
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2008.08.25 21:47:00 - [493]
 

Originally by: Mordican
Shard the server?


stop playing EVE

Dave Davies
Posted - 2008.08.25 21:48:00 - [494]
 

Originally by: Mistress Evita


CCP needs to be careful in what they change and how they change it. They need to be careful on major changes. They need to be careful on how they introduce changes.


Ideally yes, but that doesn't seem to be the CCP Way. And the game's still here.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.08.25 21:55:00 - [495]
 

Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette
Originally by: Dave Davies
Originally by: Mistress Evita
To make money one has to please a majority of users. And from what I have seen in this game there are a lot of mission runners. There are the kind that all they do is run missions and there are the kind that run missions to get isk to do other things in the game.


Here's where that mobius strip goes:

Missions are the best way to make ISK by grinding -> more players run missions -> so many players run missions that we'd better not mess with missions -> missions are the best way to make ISK by grinding -> ad nauseam

The people who run missions "just because they love running missions" would probably be just as happy with reduced rewards and more content.

The people who run missions because they're currently the *****gun of isk grinding would bail for the new FotM the very second they discovered it.


This is an excellent explanation of the current situation, and of why "but most of Eve are running missions" isn't a good argument.



If only someone had made that very point back in my original "how much is a hi-sec agent worth thread".

Oh, wait. That was the point of that whole thread.


Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.08.25 23:04:00 - [496]
 

Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 25/08/2008 23:04:17
I cannot possibly fathom how IMPROVING GAME BALANCE and MOVING THE GAME TOWARDS ITS DESIGN is going to decrease subscription numbers.

seriously, can anyone give me an example of a game that became more popular because it was dumbed down?

FFS, EVE was designed from the ground up as a harsh, competitive PVP MMO. It is DAMN good at that. It is HORRIBLE at being a "Carebear" PVE MMO like WoW.

WOW is a good ****ing game for those who like that. In fact, there is absolutely no way that CCP can even BEGIN to compete with WoW for that type of player in the long run, ESPECIALLY with other similar space-based MMOS coming out.

Financially speaking, CCP has WAY more profit potential with a great, unique game than a generic ****ty game. Game design wise, level 4 missions in their current form take a dump in the cornflakes of the original game design.

A few people will grumble. A nerf to balance/improve the game will not cause the death of the game, this dramatizing is starting to **** me off. WTZ didn't kill the game, the stacking nerf didn't kill the game, and a level 4 mission nerf wont kill the game either.


Now that we've destroyed this "Level 4 mission nerf would kill EVE" BS, can ANYONE here explain why miners, explorers and ratters can make MANY times as much ISK in lowsec/0.0 as hisec, but missionrunners make about the same? Either level 4 missions should be nerfed or 10/10 DED complexes, BS rats in belts and Crokite/Bistot need to be brought ho hisec.

Ashlee Darksky
Minmatar
Forum Insurgency
Posted - 2008.08.25 23:30:00 - [497]
 

To the OP:

Do you actually know what you're talking about? You talk of risk vs reward but it's clear that you have never frequented low sec and you yourself say you've not been to 0.0.

This leads me to the following conclusion:

You have made your bucket loads of isk with minimal risk and now want to lord it up over everyone else and wave your e-peen around. In short, you've got what you wanted and now want to keep everyone else down trodden.

Besides, there are far greater things to worry about than L4 mission runners. To be honest, if you're in 0.0 you're not going to be doing l4 missions anyway, I know I don't!

Just leave the nice people in empire alone, get out of your npc corp, join an alliance and go live in 0.0 happily ever after like the rest of us. You'll feel better I promise Cool

Mistress Evita
Caldari
Booze and Hookers
Posted - 2008.08.25 23:33:00 - [498]
 

Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 25/08/2008 23:04:17
I cannot possibly fathom how IMPROVING GAME BALANCE and MOVING THE GAME TOWARDS ITS DESIGN is going to decrease subscription numbers.

I am going to start off by saying I have two PvP characters that, if I put my nose to the grind stone, I could make a lot of isk just salvaging other peoples missions and getting them to take a shot at me and then salvaging them also. I could make more isk then running missions. I truly find running missions boring.

Now that we are past that, CCP has been moving away from their original game long before the Level 4 missions became easier to do and thus faster to complete and faster to make isk. They have gone off the original path of the game of "safe nowhere, not even high sec" to what we see today. A lot of people who are playing the game today have no idea what the game was like a year ago, two years ago, or even how it was back in July of 2003. In it's current form this game is nothing like it was back in 2003 other then you can still shoot people without a sec hit in 0.0. To tell the truth if this game went back to what it looked like in July/August 2003 I would play it. I would owe someone 5 million isk (a lot for me back in 2003) but I would still play the game.

When the game first game out it was unique. It was gritty. It was dangerous. It was fun. It was easy to make changes back in the day due to not that many people playing and the people who were playing knew what they were getting into.

Now the game is "established". It has a nice player base. A player base that seems to grow every year (I hate Jita on weekends). The game makes money. It makes a steady flow of money. People don't like it when you screw with the money flow unless there is a gaurantee the money flow will come back up after it dips a bit when a major change is made. I really do not see CCP making any radical change (and nano fix aint that radical) to this game. The level 4 missions are a major thing in this game to some people. Maybe not a majority but a lot more then just a few. A lot of people use level 4 missions has income to finance other stuff. Not just PvE only people but a more then a few PvP people also. If CCP modifies Level 4 missions you are going to see people screaming on the forums (maybe not screaming, mostly whining) to "modify" mining (any kind of mining) or "modify" market trading. They will do it cause people are like that.

But then I don't have a financial stake in Eve other then my monthly sub. And if CCP whats to change its game I have no problem with that. It may turn out to be better, it may turn out to be worse. Only CCP and its accountants know for sure. Very Happy

Ashlee Darksky
Minmatar
Forum Insurgency
Posted - 2008.08.25 23:35:00 - [499]
 

Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 25/08/2008 23:04:17
I cannot possibly fathom how IMPROVING GAME BALANCE and MOVING THE GAME TOWARDS ITS DESIGN is going to decrease subscription numbers.

seriously, can anyone give me an example of a game that became more popular because it was dumbed down?

FFS, EVE was designed from the ground up as a harsh, competitive PVP MMO. It is DAMN good at that. It is HORRIBLE at being a "Carebear" PVE MMO like WoW.

WOW is a good ****ing game for those who like that. In fact, there is absolutely no way that CCP can even BEGIN to compete with WoW for that type of player in the long run, ESPECIALLY with other similar space-based MMOS coming out.

Financially speaking, CCP has WAY more profit potential with a great, unique game than a generic ****ty game. Game design wise, level 4 missions in their current form take a dump in the cornflakes of the original game design.

A few people will grumble. A nerf to balance/improve the game will not cause the death of the game, this dramatizing is starting to **** me off. WTZ didn't kill the game, the stacking nerf didn't kill the game, and a level 4 mission nerf wont kill the game either.


Now that we've destroyed this "Level 4 mission nerf would kill EVE" BS, can ANYONE here explain why miners, explorers and ratters can make MANY times as much ISK in lowsec/0.0 as hisec, but missionrunners make about the same? Either level 4 missions should be nerfed or 10/10 DED complexes, BS rats in belts and Crokite/Bistot need to be brought ho hisec.


Bad idea bringing those ores to high sec... I'll just leave you to think about that one for a moment.

Also, having run L4 missions in my earlier days before going to 0.0 I can safely say that L4 missions will earn you a lot less than 0.0 missions, exploring, ratting, etc.

People who believe L4 missions are as profitable as 0.0 are living in a fantasy world, don't know what they're talking about, or have never been to 0.0

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2008.08.25 23:42:00 - [500]
 

On the '****ing off the playerbase' argument:

It would seem logical that the more 'hardcore' players would also be the individuals who pay for more than one account, and pay for much longer periods of play time.

If THAT is true, then would it not be more logical to state that changing those mechanics often associated with the 'hardcore' playerbase ... i.e. WTZ, nanos, etc, etc ... would cause EvE to lose, not necessarily more players, but far and wide more ACCOUNTS?

Hmm. Bunch of ifs there.

Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2008.08.25 23:43:00 - [501]
 

Originally by: Ashlee Darksky
To the OP:

Do you actually know what you're talking about? You talk of risk vs reward but it's clear that you have never frequented low sec and you yourself say you've not been to 0.0.

This leads me to the following conclusion:

You have made your bucket loads of isk with minimal risk and now want to lord it up over everyone else and wave your e-peen around. In short, you've got what you wanted and now want to keep everyone else down trodden.

Besides, there are far greater things to worry about than L4 mission runners. To be honest, if you're in 0.0 you're not going to be doing l4 missions anyway, I know I don't!

Just leave the nice people in empire alone, get out of your npc corp, join an alliance and go live in 0.0 happily ever after like the rest of us. You'll feel better I promise Cool


Actually, I know lots of people who lived in the some of the richest 0.0 regions in eve who run missions in empire to make isk.

You don't see something wrong with that?

Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2008.08.25 23:44:00 - [502]
 

Originally by: Empyre
Originally by: Gamesguy
Fail. Do you realize how many years of whining and thousands of threads was required before ccp finally buffed amarr?

I fully expect ccp to nerf missions given enough whining about it, like how they nerfed titans, nanos, suicide ganking(which took what? 4 years of whining?), stabs, ECM, nos, etc.

CCP has shown that with enough whining they will make changes. So as long as we keep whining about L4s ccp will eventually nerf them.


i remember when you guys used to actually speak on the forums with a moderate amount of intelligence. you hate ccp so much now that they've made you play by the rules that you're willing to state they run the game simply based upon the frequency and quantity of whines on a given subject?

i'd go so far as to say that if a vast majority of the game decided something needed to be nerfed, that they'd find a way to make a semi-balanced change that compromised with the majority interest. but there's not even close to a majority interest in nerfing L4s, quite the opposite. many of your own alliance use alts to make isk with missions, especially when you guys were getting spanked all over the galaxy.

you guys should be well versed in the art of failure, though. i'll give you that much.



Oh noes, the peanut gallery smacked me, why don't you go run some missions about it?Rolling Eyes

Ashlee Darksky
Minmatar
Forum Insurgency
Posted - 2008.08.25 23:46:00 - [503]
 

Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Ashlee Darksky
To the OP:

Do you actually know what you're talking about? You talk of risk vs reward but it's clear that you have never frequented low sec and you yourself say you've not been to 0.0.

This leads me to the following conclusion:

You have made your bucket loads of isk with minimal risk and now want to lord it up over everyone else and wave your e-peen around. In short, you've got what you wanted and now want to keep everyone else down trodden.

Besides, there are far greater things to worry about than L4 mission runners. To be honest, if you're in 0.0 you're not going to be doing l4 missions anyway, I know I don't!

Just leave the nice people in empire alone, get out of your npc corp, join an alliance and go live in 0.0 happily ever after like the rest of us. You'll feel better I promise Cool


Actually, I know lots of people who lived in the some of the richest 0.0 regions in eve who run missions in empire to make isk.

You don't see something wrong with that?


It depends on how many people you actually know to be statistically accurate or not Very Happy

Terail Zoqial
Caldari
Posted - 2008.08.25 23:51:00 - [504]
 

lvl 4 missions are tedious as hell, that is the punishment for the isk.

Risk vs reward is pants, sheesh, next you'll be nattering on about the golden ratio Razz

Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2008.08.26 00:06:00 - [505]
 

Edited by: Gamesguy on 26/08/2008 00:07:14
Originally by: Ashlee Darksky
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Ashlee Darksky
To the OP:

Do you actually know what you're talking about? You talk of risk vs reward but it's clear that you have never frequented low sec and you yourself say you've not been to 0.0.

This leads me to the following conclusion:

You have made your bucket loads of isk with minimal risk and now want to lord it up over everyone else and wave your e-peen around. In short, you've got what you wanted and now want to keep everyone else down trodden.

Besides, there are far greater things to worry about than L4 mission runners. To be honest, if you're in 0.0 you're not going to be doing l4 missions anyway, I know I don't!

Just leave the nice people in empire alone, get out of your npc corp, join an alliance and go live in 0.0 happily ever after like the rest of us. You'll feel better I promise Cool


Actually, I know lots of people who lived in the some of the richest 0.0 regions in eve who run missions in empire to make isk.

You don't see something wrong with that?


It depends on how many people you actually know to be statistically accurate or not Very Happy


I'd say about as many people mission to make isk as there are who rat for isk. Mostly the people who rat for isk don't have an alt capable of missioning(usually they have either an industrial alt, unsuited combat alt like a minnie char, or no alts at all).

I rat sometimes because with two accounts I can actually make some decent isk ratting(assigned fighters ftw).

Quote:
lvl 4 missions are tedious as hell, that is the punishment for the isk.

Risk vs reward is pants, sheesh, next you'll be nattering on about the golden ratio


What isk making activity isn't? Pvp isnt an isk making activity for 99.99% of players.

Veldya
Guristari Freedom Fighters
Posted - 2008.08.26 02:37:00 - [506]
 

Missions are a means to an end, much like mining is. They are there to generate isk. They do what they are meant to do. They are dynamically controlled so the faster people do them the less they reward.

The only "significant" change that needs to be done is remove stock T1 drops from them and replace them with other junk like POS maintenance items and the like.

T1 Industry is dead and will remain dead as long as the market is flooded with rat drops.

Veldya
Guristari Freedom Fighters
Posted - 2008.08.26 02:45:00 - [507]
 

Originally by: Gamesguy

Actually, I know lots of people who lived in the some of the richest 0.0 regions in eve who run missions in empire to make isk.

You don't see something wrong with that?


If you have a strong enough tank you can do a lot of missions without paying a great deal of attention. That is more about convenience than anything else. You can't afford to not pay attention in 0.0 space.

If you don't pay attention then the mission invariably takes signficantly longer. You can make the same comparisons to mining in 0.0 vs mining in high-sec. You don't typically need to pay as much attention in high-sec space but the risk is significantly lower.

high-sec doesn't compete with 0.0, not even remotely. You should be making 5x to 10x per hour ratting what you do running missions.

It has less to do with the reward and more to do with the risk part. There are a lot of ship types and setups you just don't want to be flying in 0.0 space.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.08.26 02:58:00 - [508]
 

Originally by: Terail Zoqial
lvl 4 missions are tedious as hell, that is the punishment for the isk.

Risk vs reward is pants, sheesh, next you'll be nattering on about the golden ratio Razz



All the more reason to encourage people to do other things. Everyone has more fun that way.

Traidor Disloyal
Private Nuisance
Segregati0n
Posted - 2008.08.26 03:42:00 - [509]
 

Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Originally by: Terail Zoqial
lvl 4 missions are tedious as hell, that is the punishment for the isk.

Risk vs reward is pants, sheesh, next you'll be nattering on about the golden ratio Razz



All the more reason to encourage people to do other things. Everyone has more fun that way.

I am not giving you a hard time here. But how do you know what is fun for everyone in game?

You know what my idea of fun is? My idea of fun is finding a mission runner in a level 4 mission. A mission runner in a pimped out Battleship (faction/T2, I don't care). A mission runner who has not a clue on how aggression works in High Sec. A mission runner who will stay in that mission while I get my pimped out mission runner killing ship. A mission runner who will stay there and let me kill him and salvage his wreak and loot his faction mods.

Me, I had fun. Him, not so much.

I say let the mission runners have their level 4 missions in High Sec. I don't have a problem with that.

Dave Davies
Posted - 2008.08.26 03:46:00 - [510]
 

Originally by: Traidor Disloyal

I am not giving you a hard time here. But how do you know what is fun for everyone in game?

You know what my idea of fun is? My idea of fun is finding a mission runner in a level 4 mission. A mission runner in a pimped out Battleship (faction/T2, I don't care). A mission runner who has not a clue on how aggression works in High Sec. A mission runner who will stay in that mission while I get my pimped out mission runner killing ship. A mission runner who will stay there and let me kill him and salvage his wreak and loot his faction mods.

Me, I had fun. Him, not so much.

I say let the mission runners have their level 4 missions in High Sec. I don't have a problem with that.



Subsidized, low- risk/ high value piracy in high sec is no better than subsidized, low- risk/ high value grinding in high sec. Nerf plz.


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