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Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2008.08.25 02:07:00 - [421]
 

Originally by: Empyre
I used to genuinely care about this topic.. the first 300 times it was rehashed. It boggled my mind how logic could pervade some people when trying to honestly debate this. But then it dawned on me, why the hell should I care?

The L4 mission nerf cry has been ringing out forever now, and over the years they've only seen touching up. That alone spoke to me and said CCP seems to believe they are well enough balanced. If it was as big of a deal as some of these over-dramatic, sensationalist and frothing at the mouth posters were making it out to be, something would have changed long ago.

So now I get genuine amusement out of reading the nerf cries. Aside from the trolls who try so hard to be noticed and only get ignored (another sad story), I picture these people actually believing that if they type something long enough, despite the fact CCP runs the darn game and could prove/disprove their "ideas" in a work-day, that somehow CCP will think, "You know, that guy typed the same shaky argument several times. Let's forget what the data says and make the change."

Denial is a helluva drug. I've heard if you keep telling yourself something, you also start to believe it as well.



For me, it makes for fun conversation and gives me something to do to wile away the days.

And when I'm bored, I go to a separate post and argue the other side. Comes to a point when I forget which side I'm actually rooting for Confused

Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
Posted - 2008.08.25 03:16:00 - [422]
 

Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 25/08/2008 03:18:39

I don't care about the "carebears" in hi-sec doing their thing. That's how they choose to play the game and I'm fine with it. I'm fine with people retiring to hi-sec to build up their wallets when their wallets have taken a beating.

I care that because of that largely risk free ISK when I want to actively make money the most efficient way, by far, is to run missions in hi-sec. There's really little incentive to do anything else beyond novelty.

Beyond devaluing a lot of content it's devaluing entire professions and it's making a mockery of those of us who want to take risks and reap the rewards. The easy supply of cash is also making everything less meaningful and the perceived security is pushing up the prices on items that could be considered "mission runner goods" to the point where the only thing they are good for is mission running.

Perhaps worst of all it makes playing solo the most profitable way to make an income in what is supposed to be multi-player game.

Patri Andari
Caldari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
Posted - 2008.08.25 03:41:00 - [423]
 

Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 25/08/2008 03:18:39

Beyond devaluing a lot of content it's devaluing entire professions and it's making a mockery of those of us who want to take risks and reap the rewards. The easy supply of cash is also making everything less meaningful and the perceived security is pushing up the prices on items that could be considered "mission runner goods" to the point where the only thing they are good for is mission running.

Perhaps worst of all it makes playing solo the most profitable way to make an income in what is supposed to be multi-player game.


So many things about this quote just seem wrong but it made me wonder.

Imagine a teacher who makes 40k per year with a B.A. finds out that her car salesman is a high school drop out who, like everyone in his shop, makes over 100k per year. Might that teacher feel her profession is somehow "devalued"? I think that if she did she is faced with a choice. She can try her hand at selling cars for more loot or remain a teacher and perhaps reap the other rewards that attracted her to the profession in the first place.

...OR

She could complain about how unskilled under-educated individuals making so much f***ing cash somehow devalues her profession...community...life. She could explain how having all that extra cash circulating raises prices she pays for everything because low skilled workers are making too much and paying too much for goods. This raises prices! Risk v reward? What about investment in education v. reward!Evil or Very Mad Heck she could start a campaign to put a cap on the salaries of all car salesmen nation wide!

I mean she could...Right?

Any who...just wondering.



Patri

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2008.08.25 03:50:00 - [424]
 

Originally by: Patri Andari

So many things about this quote just seem wrong but it made me wonder.

Imagine a teacher who makes 40k per year with a B.A. finds out that her car salesman is a high school drop out who, like everyone in his shop, makes over 100k per year. Might that teacher feel her profession is somehow "devalued"? I think that if she did she is faced with a choice. She can try her hand at selling cars for more loot or remain a teacher and perhaps reap the other rewards that attracted her to the profession in the first place.

...OR

She could complain about how unskilled under-educated individuals making so much f***ing cash somehow devalues her profession...community...life. She could explain how having all that extra cash circulating raises prices she pays for everything because low skilled workers are making too much and paying too much for goods. This raises prices! Risk v reward? What about investment in education v. reward!Evil or Very Mad Heck she could start a campaign to put a cap on the salaries of all car salesmen nation wide!

I mean she could...Right?

Any who...just wondering.
Patri

/thread

Dave Davies
Posted - 2008.08.25 05:43:00 - [425]
 

Originally by: Patri Andari


So many things about this quote just seem wrong but it made me wonder.

Imagine a teacher [and so on and so on]



... because as everybody knows, Real Life(tm) is a game and an artificial environment that is constantly being adjusted for balance by a team of creators. As such it's a perfect analogy for what we're talking about.


And what I really mean to say by that is, "go see if you can buy a clue and then come back and give us a long, boring post about the madcap adventures you had in the process." Smile


Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby

/thread


And your little alt, too.

SSgt Sniper
Gallente
SSgt Sniper Temporary corp
Posted - 2008.08.25 06:02:00 - [426]
 

Originally by: Kwedaras
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
Edited by: SSgt Sniper on 24/08/2008 18:05:46
Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette

If you're done making up stories, maybe we can go on with the discussion?

I call shenannigins on this one.

1. Interceptors can camp gates anywhere in Caldari or Gallente Lowsec. I know, I've seen me do it. The gate guns cannot track you for crap and you will be fine as long as you are REALLY careful.




Very HappyVery HappyVery HappyVery HappyVery Happy
goddammit stop posting. How can we discuss with you when you are clueless?


Hide and watch.

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2008.08.25 06:15:00 - [427]
 

Originally by: Dave Davies

Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby

/thread


And your little alt, too.

lol, do some research. I've been around more than a little while and have no need to hide behind another player to express my opinion.

Just thought the example was funny AND accurate.

Wink

Dave Davies
Posted - 2008.08.25 06:27:00 - [428]
 

Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Just thought the example was funny AND accurate.


You were right on one count, it was pretty funny.

But no. Maybe some day when somebody makes a "realism- oriented" MMORPG about building a career in 21st century industrialized society you and that guy and the other four people that play it can use that analogy to great effect. In the mean time, you can trust me when I say it bears zero relation to normal game design.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.08.25 07:06:00 - [429]
 

Originally by: Patri Andari
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 25/08/2008 03:18:39

Beyond devaluing a lot of content it's devaluing entire professions and it's making a mockery of those of us who want to take risks and reap the rewards. The easy supply of cash is also making everything less meaningful and the perceived security is pushing up the prices on items that could be considered "mission runner goods" to the point where the only thing they are good for is mission running.

Perhaps worst of all it makes playing solo the most profitable way to make an income in what is supposed to be multi-player game.


So many things about this quote just seem wrong but it made me wonder.

Imagine a teacher who makes 40k per year with a B.A. finds out that her car salesman is a high school drop out who, like everyone in his shop, makes over 100k per year. Might that teacher feel her profession is somehow "devalued"? I think that if she did she is faced with a choice. She can try her hand at selling cars for more loot or remain a teacher and perhaps reap the other rewards that attracted her to the profession in the first place.

...OR

She could complain about how unskilled under-educated individuals making so much f***ing cash somehow devalues her profession...community...life. She could explain how having all that extra cash circulating raises prices she pays for everything because low skilled workers are making too much and paying too much for goods. This raises prices! Risk v reward? What about investment in education v. reward!Evil or Very Mad Heck she could start a campaign to put a cap on the salaries of all car salesmen nation wide!

I mean she could...Right?

Any who...just wondering.

Patri


You fail at analogies.

If that car salesman was also teaching a night class once a month and getting paid 30-50% as much just for that 1 lesson/month - as well as being paid for being a car salesman - as the teacher gets for teaching full time, the analogy would be close to how miners feel about missioning.


Actually you don't even fail that badly at analogies - most teachers here are pretty bitter at how little society values them, and most of the good ones have either quit or are thinking of quitting. I know a couple. They laugh bitterly when people complain how bad schools are. Most teachers are now idealistic, naive young teachers who haven't been disillusioned yet, hacks who can't get another job, or old teachers who are clinging on till retirement.

The exceptions are those who work at private schools. And where people care about what grades their kids get, teachers get paid a hell of a lot more, thank you very much.

Joxxy
Posted - 2008.08.25 07:20:00 - [430]
 

So ... people make money in high sec missions.

Why should we who live in 0.0 care ?

Let them do whatever they blood like.

Its not all that dangerous and you can make some money to boot ?
So what.

Seriousley - why concern yourself with something like that. Go play the game and enjoy your self. Its a game, not a career.

Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
Posted - 2008.08.25 07:33:00 - [431]
 

You all missed the point of my stupid sandbox story. It's supposed to show how two opposing perspectives can be so alien to one another that they are inherently unreconcilable. *hint hint*
Originally by: Roy Batty68
I had a sandbox when I was a kid. Stupid neighbor's cat kept crapping in it. I don't think he really cared how I felt about it, from his point of view it was only good for one thing.

Now that I think about it, that cat probably thought I was pretty weird for wanting to hang out where he crapped...




Oh well. Was a dumb story anyway.


On another note, I thought this was an excellent reply to Sheriff Jone's thread "Why do people care so much about other peoples doings?".
Originally by: khosta
Had a good think about the OP question before replying, and deliberately avoided reading other posts to avoid distracting myself.

I think fundamentally, the question shouldnt even be asked. This is a MULTIPLAYER game. Everybody should care what everybody else does, as what everyone does should have an effect on you.

However with game mechanisms like missions that dont require interaction with other people, the question becomes valid. The people who run missions can have effects on other players, while often being in a position of immunity from effect from other players themselves.

So there we have it. Its a multiplayer game, everybody should care what everbody does. If you play a single player game where your actions have no effect on me, then I would not care what you did.

It is a fault of this multiplayer game that the OP question in valid.

And it's true. Missions are just about the only resource in the game where direct competition isn't much of a factor. They're an inexhaustable resource that have the potential of making 0.0 space look like the ghettos when one considers the overall effect from a perspective like Malcanis' What is a hi-sec level 4 agent worth thread. In fact it's kind of ironic that both a plain, no stations 0.0 system and a hisec agent system both have a problem with scaling well, and both in opposite directions... Heh, Eve has problems with scaling all over the place I guess.

The only point where competition enters the mission running equation is when you haul your mission loot, salvage, or LP stuffs off to be sold on the market. Other than that it's a solo show. And the, "Just leave me alone" attitude that missions cultivate is a bit anti-thema to the rest of the game as well.

Imagine if mission runners had to compete with each other on the finishing of one mission. You and ten other dudes racing to rescue the damsel, only one of you gets the mission payout. And, oh man... the fight over salvage would be epic. Suddenly Ninjas probably couldn't hold a candle to a bunch of mission runners fighting over an Angel BS.
Laughing


So in a very real way, missions in general are sort of an aberation to what appears to be the design goals surrounding the rest of the game. I suppose it's not so surprising that competitive minded people would take exception to them in one way or another.

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2008.08.25 08:43:00 - [432]
 

How high sec LV4 Mission Runners/Isk Printers can save 30 dollars a month

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier:_Elite_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat

SKUNK

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2008.08.25 09:00:00 - [433]
 

I would be happy with a more interesting presentation of missions.

It is not a solution to put all L3 and L4 Agents into lowsec. This will by no means help the situation.

How about Missions start out as an event.
In the News a message appears that a larger number of drones was reported in constellation XYZ. This is a kind of semi event with possible escalations.

Example how it would play out:
The news can be read, maybe even as a special announcement in a Mission Runner Channel. Event Agents appear in the same constellation. These Event Agents give at first only low level Missions of scouting type to check various Deadspace Sites for Drone Activity.

The script checks how many people run these missions, how successful they were etc. after a while the Focus shifts to more and more combat missions. If Missionrunners lose interest during this time and not enough missions are done, then Rogue Drones start to appear near the Stations, in the Belts etc. But if the Mission Runners successfully quell the Threat of Rogue Drones, the Number of Drone Mission Agents decreases again.

In the end the Event is concluded in the way that a bookmark is to a previously Hidden Complex is supplied to each Mission Runner who helped in taking out Rogue Drones. This Plex should be of a fairly High Level with a Rogue Drone Mother or something of the equivalent as a final Boss, that also drops some interesting loot (enough parts to build a batch of augmented drones for example). Once the Boss has been destroyed, the event is over. The Complex dissappears and the Event Agents stop to hand out Missions and dissappear.

After a few days or weeks another Mission Event starts in a different location. In a similar way could be Angel, Sansha, Serpentis etc. Missions be created.

The competition would be between Missionrunners and a slowly decreasing number of Missions and of course about the Loot at the end of the Complex. I would also place the majority of the Missions in Highsec and only move some of the Missions into Lowsec. This way Missions would also affect the rest of the universe.

The main difficulty would be, that a system that automatically generates such missions would be a lot of work and I think many pilots would scream, that this is Everquest in Space or something like that.

Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2008.08.25 09:08:00 - [434]
 

Originally by: Empyre
I used to genuinely care about this topic.. the first 300 times it was rehashed. It boggled my mind how logic could pervade some people when trying to honestly debate this. But then it dawned on me, why the hell should I care?

The L4 mission nerf cry has been ringing out forever now, and over the years they've only seen touching up. That alone spoke to me and said CCP seems to believe they are well enough balanced. If it was as big of a deal as some of these over-dramatic, sensationalist and frothing at the mouth posters were making it out to be, something would have changed long ago.

So now I get genuine amusement out of reading the nerf cries. Aside from the trolls who try so hard to be noticed and only get ignored (another sad story), I picture these people actually believing that if they type something long enough, despite the fact CCP runs the darn game and could prove/disprove their "ideas" in a work-day, that somehow CCP will think, "You know, that guy typed the same shaky argument several times. Let's forget what the data says and make the change."

Denial is a helluva drug. I've heard if you keep telling yourself something, you also start to believe it as well.



Fail. Do you realize how many years of whining and thousands of threads was required before ccp finally buffed amarr?

I fully expect ccp to nerf missions given enough whining about it, like how they nerfed titans, nanos, suicide ganking(which took what? 4 years of whining?), stabs, ECM, nos, etc.

CCP has shown that with enough whining they will make changes. So as long as we keep whining about L4s ccp will eventually nerf them.

imouttahere
Posted - 2008.08.25 10:02:00 - [435]
 

People who abused the war dec system and get their own game nerfed then cry about it should check this out. It's also pretty handy for the people who got suicide ganking nerfed by abusing the insurance system and then complained Eve was going to the Carebears.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier:_Elite_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat




Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2008.08.25 10:09:00 - [436]
 

Edited by: Le Skunk on 25/08/2008 10:09:38
Originally by: imouttahere
People who abused the war dec system and get their own game nerfed then cry about it should check this out. It's also pretty handy for the people who got suicide ganking nerfed by abusing the insurance system and then complained Eve was going to the Carebears.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier:_Elite_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat






1) Get your own jokes
2) If you have to steal jokes, then please at least make them make sense.

ArrowThe two links were selected by myself to highlight the solitary nature of the mission runner in a MULTILPLAYER game. I suggested frontier elite ii would be a better game to play (heaven knows the missions in that game were far superior to what eve offers) and of course there is no lag. The IRC would enable them to chat to their corpies.

ArrowThey therefore make no sense to suggest to a PVP player, whos entire game revolves around interaction with other players in a MULTIPLAYER game (strange that)

Summary: Best you pipe down before you humiliate your forum alt even more

SKUNK

EDIT: Damn im good :)

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2008.08.25 10:11:00 - [437]
 

Originally by: Gamesguy

CCP has shown that with enough whining they will make changes. So as long as we keep whining about L4s ccp will eventually nerf them.


Im with you brother. Together we can defeat them!!!!

CCP WE DEMAND BALANCE

SKUNK

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.08.25 10:14:00 - [438]
 

Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Empyre
I used to genuinely care about this topic.. the first 300 times it was rehashed. It boggled my mind how logic could pervade some people when trying to honestly debate this. But then it dawned on me, why the hell should I care?

The L4 mission nerf cry has been ringing out forever now, and over the years they've only seen touching up. That alone spoke to me and said CCP seems to believe they are well enough balanced. If it was as big of a deal as some of these over-dramatic, sensationalist and frothing at the mouth posters were making it out to be, something would have changed long ago.

So now I get genuine amusement out of reading the nerf cries. Aside from the trolls who try so hard to be noticed and only get ignored (another sad story), I picture these people actually believing that if they type something long enough, despite the fact CCP runs the darn game and could prove/disprove their "ideas" in a work-day, that somehow CCP will think, "You know, that guy typed the same shaky argument several times. Let's forget what the data says and make the change."

Denial is a helluva drug. I've heard if you keep telling yourself something, you also start to believe it as well.



Fail. Do you realize how many years of whining and thousands of threads was required before ccp finally buffed amarr?

I fully expect ccp to nerf missions given enough whining about it, like how they nerfed titans, nanos, suicide ganking(which took what? 4 years of whining?), stabs, ECM, nos, etc.

CCP has shown that with enough whining they will make changes. So as long as we keep whining about L4s ccp will eventually nerf them.


IIRC the correct term is "frequently request".

imouttahere
Posted - 2008.08.25 10:31:00 - [439]
 

Originally by: Le Skunk
Edited by: Le Skunk on 25/08/2008 10:09:38
Originally by: imouttahere
People who abused the war dec system and get their own game nerfed then cry about it should check this out. It's also pretty handy for the people who got suicide ganking nerfed by abusing the insurance system and then complained Eve was going to the Carebears.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontier:_Elite_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat






1) Get your own jokes
2) If you have to steal jokes, then please at least make them make sense.

ArrowThe two links were selected by myself to highlight the solitary nature of the mission runner in a MULTILPLAYER game.


Solitary nature of a mission runner? What gives you the idea that people who run missions for Isk are afraid of any type of interaction with other people? Are you really that narrow minded to believe all mission runners are solo players? Are you really that much of a bigot?

Originally by: Le Skunk

I suggested frontier elite ii would be a better game to play (heaven knows the missions in that game were far superior to what eve offers) and of course there is no lag. The IRC would enable them to chat to their corpies.

ArrowThey therefore make no sense to suggest to a PVP player, whos entire game revolves around interaction with other players in a MULTIPLAYER game (strange that)

Summary: Best you pipe down before you humiliate your forum alt even more

SKUNK

EDIT: Damn im good :)


No sir. You are terrible. According to yourself and lot of hysterical people:

If Eve continues on its current path it will be the same as Elite and there will be no PvP and no interaction. Which is why I used your link to a single player game with no PvP.
Best pipe down before you get war decs nerfed. Again.
Razz

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2008.08.25 10:34:00 - [440]
 

EVE is a PvP game and yes it is a Multiplayer game and it is also sandbox game.

I personally think many people get the idea of the sandbox game wrong, because they tell others how the play the game.

Just moving L4 to lowsec will not solve your target problem, because people will either quit or adapt in a way, that you will also not like and then you will cry for another nerf.

Maximillian Bayonette
White Lion Manufacture and Salvage
Posted - 2008.08.25 10:44:00 - [441]
 

Originally by: Deviana Sevidon
EVE is a PvP game and yes it is a Multiplayer game and it is also sandbox game.

I personally think many people get the idea of the sandbox game wrong, because they tell others how the play the game.

Just moving L4 to lowsec will not solve your target problem, because people will either quit or adapt in a way, that you will also not like and then you will cry for another nerf.


Well, the "target problem" for me is that high sec mission running pays too much and needs rewards brought down to a balanced level.

Nerfing rewards of high sec mission running seems to be the best way of accomplishing this goal.

Evanade
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.08.25 11:02:00 - [442]
 

Nerf them!

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2008.08.25 11:45:00 - [443]
 

Edited by: Deviana Sevidon on 25/08/2008 11:45:27
Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette

Well, the "target problem" for me is that high sec mission running pays too much and needs rewards brought down to a balanced level.

Nerfing rewards of high sec mission running seems to be the best way of accomplishing this goal.



It is not. The problem are not the L4 Missions. The problem is, that you have in your mind an opinion how this game should be played and everyone does not agree to your opinion should be nerfed until they see the error of their way.

The real factor is, they will never play the game as you want them to. No cry for nerfs, no boost of lowsec. This fact would not even change if the local pirates would greet mission runners with cold beer and candy instead of antimatter.Wink

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2008.08.25 11:48:00 - [444]
 

Edited by: Le Skunk on 25/08/2008 11:48:28
Originally by: imouttahere

Solitary nature of a mission runner? What gives you the idea that people who run missions for Isk are afraid of any type of interaction with other people? Are you really that narrow minded to believe all mission runners are solo players? Are you really that much of a bigot?



No - they like to chat in corp chat as well - hence the linking of IRC. Maybe occasionally they will run a mission together BUT seeing as Lv 4's are SO EASY to complete there really is no point in running a mission with a corp mate. More reasons to nerf lv4'.


Originally by: imouttahere

If Eve continues on its current path it will be the same as Elite and there will be no PvP and no interaction. Which is why I used your link to a single player game with no PvP.
Best pipe down before you get war decs nerfed. Again.
Razz



Hmmm what a reach for meaning. More fail cake. Your stealing of my joke didn't originally make sense. Nor did your subsequent ludicrous justification of the plagiarism.

Also post with your main ya noob


ArrowLV 4 Mission Runners and bears in general need rooting out from under their high sec rock. Sure some of them will shrivel up and die. But as their chrysalis hardens and cracks in the sun, many will emerge as beautiful butterfly's. And as they are flying high in the air, they will look down on those who still cling under the rock with pity and contempt.

The same strange mix of pity and contempt all true players feel for the highsecers. Willingly caging themselves and stunting their potential.

CCP i call on you to help these poor people.

SKUNK


Matrixcvd
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.08.25 11:58:00 - [445]
 

this is the slippery slope i have been talking about for years when you listen to nubs and losers. Everytime a minority of the community cries, baby jesus shoots his toes off...

nano-ecm-hisec ganking-nerf level 4s the list is getting endless, and each time more of this game is lost to these pathetic people. enough wiht the nerfs already

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.08.25 12:01:00 - [446]
 

Originally by: Le Skunk

Hmmm what a reach for meaning. More fail cake. Your stealing of my joke didn't originally make sense. Nor did your subsequent ludicrous justification of the plagiarism.

Also post with your main ya noob


ArrowLV 4 Mission Runners and bears in general need rooting out from under their high sec rock. Sure some of them will shrivel up and die. But as their chrysalis hardens and cracks in the sun, many will emerge as beautiful butterfly's. And as they are flying high in the air, they will look down on those who still cling under the rock with pity and contempt.

The same strange mix of pity and contempt all true players feel for the highsecers. Willingly caging themselves and stunting their potential.

CCP i call on you to help these poor people.

SKUNK





tat was so beautiful. you're a saint!

*tear*

Maximillian Bayonette
White Lion Manufacture and Salvage
Posted - 2008.08.25 12:27:00 - [447]
 

Originally by: Deviana Sevidon

It is not. The problem are not the L4 Missions. The problem is, that you have in your mind an opinion how this game should be played and everyone does not agree to your opinion should be nerfed until they see the error of their way.

The real factor is, they will never play the game as you want them to. No cry for nerfs, no boost of lowsec. This fact would not even change if the local pirates would greet mission runners with cold beer and candy instead of antimatter.Wink


What? How the hell do you know what I want or how I think? I said, the problem for ME - meaning as I SEE IT - is that high sec has too big rewards in contrast to the risk taken. This I see as an imbalance. That's why I want it nerfed.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME WANTING ANYONE TO PLAY LIKE I DO.

I run missions in high sec. Why the hell would I want them nerfed if I want everyone to run missions in high sec? No, you are just suffering from the common delusion that everyone that wants high sec missions nerfed just wants to gank you in low sec.

SNAP OUT OF IT! THAT'S NOT WHY WE WANT THIS NERF!

Maria Kalista
Amarr
Knights of Kador
Posted - 2008.08.25 13:18:00 - [448]
 

(Ultra violence)

The forum whines are flying overhead
Turning peoples faces red
Shoot it up....
Shoot it up....

Nerd-raging nerf nerf nerf ahead
Nothing thats already been said
Chribba eating Veldspar bread
Shoot it up....
Shoot it up....

(Terminator Terminator)

Hold me shake me, I'm all shook up
Psycho maniac interblend, shoot it up
Now shoot it up

(Ready Right)

Shoot it up
Shoot it up
Shoot it up....

Nerf level 4's now nano's dead
Shoot it up
Turning peoples faces red
Shoot it up
Shoot it up
Shoot it up
Shoot it up
Shoot it up
Shoot it up
(Noobface)
Shoot it up
Chribba eating Veldspar bread
Shoot it up
Turning peoples faces red
Shoot it up
Now shoot it up
(That way you getta the money
You getta the power)
Shoot it up
Ultra violence in forum-land
More nerfs in demand
Shoot it up
Shoot it up
Shoot it up
Shoot it up
(Soon whole EVE will know your name)
Lets shoot it up
Shoot it up

------------------------------------------
(Sing along on F1-11, Sigue Sigue Sputnik)

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2008.08.25 14:04:00 - [449]
 

Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette


What? How the hell do you know what I want or how I think? I said, the problem for ME - meaning as I SEE IT - is that high sec has too big rewards in contrast to the risk taken. This I see as an imbalance. That's why I want it nerfed.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME WANTING ANYONE TO PLAY LIKE I DO.

I run missions in high sec. Why the hell would I want them nerfed if I want everyone to run missions in high sec? No, you are just suffering from the common delusion that everyone that wants high sec missions nerfed just wants to gank you in low sec.

SNAP OUT OF IT! THAT'S NOT WHY WE WANT THIS NERF!



Shh, It is alright you do not have to scream.

The fact is I have lived in 0.0 and in Empire. I have done L4 Missions, Ratting, Mining, Complexes and I have shot at targets in Lowsec as well as 0.0. I know what I am talking about.

The whole concept of risk vs. reward is flawed from start. In reality it was always more like effort vs. reward. Until a year ago, owning certain T2 BPO was practically a license to print isk? Where was the risk in that. If you are in a real big 0.0 alliance, with more capital ships then all your concurrents combined and you have secured the most profitable moons, then reward also far outweighs the risk.

People always played the game in a way to maximise reward and minimising the risk.

To come back to L4. The missions do not have much risk, but also the reward is at best mediocre if you do not have Multi-Billion ISK Ship. There are lots of activities in EVE that are a lot more profitable. If you cannot see them and continue to repeat the flawed argument of risk vs. reward, then nothing can help you.

Please leave the game and whine on the Funcom Boards. Thank you.Smile

Taco Raptorian
The Tuskers
Posted - 2008.08.25 14:20:00 - [450]
 

There is an imbalance currently existing between the different security areas for sure. Still I don't support this wave of "move L4s to low sec" threads because it's a one sided solution and won't work in the long run anyway.

What the mission running masses seem to forget is that even though you can't force people to move out from high sec. Shouldn't the same apply for the opposite. If missions in high sec remain the cash cow it is now then how can people that want to stay in low sec even compete? They will be forced to have an alt mission runner (like many already have) or even move back to high sec themselves because it's just that good. Imagine if you had to have a low sec alt to kill players just so you can run missions in high sec.

Some things to consider:

People who only enjoy PvE don't want to be forced into low sec to be able to afford their losses. They also don't want to be forced to PvP. This is the same as people in low sec don't want to be forced to move back to high sec to do missions (PvE) or else be doomed to fly rookie ships all day because lack of income.

You might say that you can rat in low sec but even if that is a form of income you can't be hundreds of people in the same system (like in high sec) making millions per hour. Your income when ratting is affected by the population in a system. Mission income is not (lag doesn't count).

You might argue that if you join a big corp you can make more money in 0.0 ratting. That's not doable solo though is it? Even if you do rat solo in 0.0 you still can't be hundreds of players in the same system. It just doesn't work or your income will be gimped or some corp will eat you alive if you don't sneak around like a mouse. This also don't apply to missions.

If you want to you should be able to play solo in a MMO world despite it often being harder. Although many hide under the protection of the npc corps which makes it alot easier but in the end it's a matter of choice. The problem is that not everyone can make this choice as it is now.

The only reasonable place to play this game mostly solo is in high sec especially if you include the other non-combat professions like trading etc. That is probably one of the bigger reasons why it's so crowded in high sec. Why should it also be among the best places regarding easy solo income?

Many here defend the right to do missions solo and stay in high sec all the time and still make good money. Why can't we have similar opportunities in low sec? Because 'isk out' far exceeds 'isk in' and with the current system it won't hold. To play the game I enjoy (just like you enjoy your missions) I need to grind alot more than you if I want to fly anything bigger than a frig. Is this fair? A balance need to be achieved so both parts can enjoy their game in this universe of EvE. After all everything is connected even if you like it or not.
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