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Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.08.23 21:06:00 - [301]
 

Originally by: AB 2006
Originally by: Keiretsu Destroyer
Me thinks they only post theese kind of stuff to find potential carebear victims for war decs. Smile Well, feast your eyes on my alt, you filthy forum-whining pirate LaughingCool

No, seriously. You don't have to like other people's play style - that's why you have your own way of doing things. And look at your post, my friend. You are not complaining because of what you can get from playing this game, you are whining about what other people have and how they play their game. That's selfish!


Indeed. He seems blind to it as well. Oh well. There really isn't any such thing as objectivity in life anyway, it's all an illusion.



Jeez, why don't you post with another alt supporting yourself?

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2008.08.23 21:07:00 - [302]
 

Originally by: Keiretsu Destroyer
Me thinks they only post theese kind of stuff to find potential carebear victims for war decs. Smile Well, feast your eyes on my alt, you filthy forum-whining pirate LaughingCool

No, seriously. You don't have to like other people's play style - that's why you have your own way of doing things. And look at your post, my friend. You are not complaining because of what you can get from playing this game, you are whining about what other people have and how they play their game. That's selfish!


I'm comlpaining about what I can get from playing this game. Personally, I'd like things a different way. Being a carebear at heart, it's sad to me that the best money for being a carebear (due to effort, time and rewards) is in hisec, away from any need to become part of a corp or group with friends.

I'm corp shopping for someone who lives in my area of space, in losec. Just finding a good corp again would be nice. But as I've been sharing, finding a good corp hasn't been working, because unlike the way it was two years ago, missioning in particular is balanced towards hisec. And mining, I might add. Meaning most losec corps I've found (none in the place I want to move, either) are significantly made up of pirates and the like.

Any good mission-running corp knows that hisec is just the smart move. If it was like it was before I left, hisec mission running would be slightly better than hisec ice mining.

Whatever. I ain't a pirate, nor do I have any want to do missions as one. But living in an overcrowded hisec, dealing with the spam in local and passing 1000 guys a day that I don't know ... makes the game mean a helluva lot less than it did.

Just doesn't seem right for this country boy to have people live side by side and not give a rats *ss about one another. At least in the days of local, you knew who was in your system, because you had to know who SHOULDN'T be there.



And I've just never enjoyed nulsec. Ratting is monumentally boring to me, politics is a real bore, and overall I think the sovereignty system is borked to hell and back. But whatever.

AB 2006
Posted - 2008.08.23 21:08:00 - [303]
 

Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: AB 2006
Originally by: Keiretsu Destroyer
Me thinks they only post theese kind of stuff to find potential carebear victims for war decs. Smile Well, feast your eyes on my alt, you filthy forum-whining pirate LaughingCool

No, seriously. You don't have to like other people's play style - that's why you have your own way of doing things. And look at your post, my friend. You are not complaining because of what you can get from playing this game, you are whining about what other people have and how they play their game. That's selfish!


Indeed. He seems blind to it as well. Oh well. There really isn't any such thing as objectivity in life anyway, it's all an illusion.



Jeez, why don't you post with another alt supporting yourself?



*laughs at you.

Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.08.23 21:10:00 - [304]
 

Originally by: AB 2006
*laughs at you.


Oh, ice burn.

You're really breaking my heart. If you want to tear it apart, post the same thing again with another alt.

AB 2006
Posted - 2008.08.23 21:13:00 - [305]
 

Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: AB 2006
*laughs at you.


Oh, ice burn.

You're really breaking my heart. If you want to tear it apart, post the same thing again with another alt.



*laughs at you some more, since you seem to enjoy it so much.

Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.08.23 21:14:00 - [306]
 

Originally by: AB 2006
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: AB 2006
*laughs at you.


Oh, ice burn.

You're really breaking my heart. If you want to tear it apart, post the same thing again with another alt.



*laughs at you some more, since you seem to enjoy it so much.


You're not good at this, are you?

AB 2006
Posted - 2008.08.23 21:16:00 - [307]
 

Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: AB 2006
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: AB 2006
*laughs at you.


Oh, ice burn.

You're really breaking my heart. If you want to tear it apart, post the same thing again with another alt.



*laughs at you some more, since you seem to enjoy it so much.


You're not good at this, are you?



Seems to be working just as planned, actually.

Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.08.23 21:19:00 - [308]
 

Originally by: AB 2006

Seems to be working just as planned, actually.


Is your plan to get my post count up? You puppet master you...

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2008.08.23 21:20:00 - [309]
 

People can sit in 98% safety, semi afk running missions and making a fortune in isk ith no danger to themselves.

With the upcomming suicde ganke nerf it will be 99.5% safety.

This threatens the balance of the game. Level 4 missions should be either a) moved b) give less rewards or preferebly c) made a LOT harder.

Risk vs Reward

Nerf those missions.

SKUNK

Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
Posted - 2008.08.23 21:23:00 - [310]
 

Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Keiretsu Destroyer
Me thinks they only post theese kind of stuff to find potential carebear victims for war decs. Smile Well, feast your eyes on my alt, you filthy forum-whining pirate LaughingCool

No, seriously. You don't have to like other people's play style - that's why you have your own way of doing things. And look at your post, my friend. You are not complaining because of what you can get from playing this game, you are whining about what other people have and how they play their game. That's selfish!


Wrong, dear alt. I've already stated multiple times that I run level 4 missions for a living. That fact is easily verifiable by taking a look at the standings tab of my well known alt. I know you don't want to do this as it would effectively shoot your whole theory of "those gosh-darn pirates are only looking for targets" right into the water. Still, in the interest of keeping the debate on the issues instead of resorting to personal attacks on people's playstyles, I offer this information again.



Hold your horses, you know I was joking about war decs - that's why Smile's and Laughing's are there. If I wasn't joking, I wouldn't be posting with my main now. My point is: just try to have some fun with the game. There are many ways to have fun in eve and the great part is that you can play eve based on your own personalty and (hidden) desires. I myself want to work in the shadow to earn enough experience, find enough frieds and lastly earn enough isk to be an alliance leader with hundreds of people watching by back as I fly my Erebus Very HappyCoolVery Happy But hay, that's just me. You have to ask yourself what do you want from this game and what would best reflect your real-life personality and desires and then play by that. Only then will you have a great deal of fun. Cheers.

Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.08.23 21:26:00 - [311]
 

Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik
Hold your horses, you know I was joking about war decs - that's why Smile's and Laughing's are there. If I wasn't joking, I wouldn't be posting with my main now. My point is: just try to have some fun with the game. There are many ways to have fun in eve and the great part is that you can play eve based on your own personalty and (hidden) desires. I myself want to work in the shadow to earn enough experience, find enough frieds and lastly earn enough isk to be an alliance leader with hundreds of people watching by back as I fly my Erebus Very HappyCoolVery Happy But hay, that's just me. You have to ask yourself what do you want from this game and what would best reflect your real-life personality and desires and then play by that. Only then will you have a great deal of fun. Cheers.


I am playing the game the way I like it. Well, to a certain extent. I would like to be able to move my money making characters to low sec and make more isk there than I make risk free in high sec. This is why I'm in this debate. I want proper risk vs reward. That would make the game more fun for me. Let's call it my ulterior motive, even though it's shooting my current money maker in the foot.

AB 2006
Posted - 2008.08.23 21:41:00 - [312]
 

Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: AB 2006

Seems to be working just as planned, actually.


Is your plan to get my post count up? You puppet master you...



Post count? Ooooh! Where?

Keiretsu Destroyer
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2008.08.23 21:43:00 - [313]
 

Originally by: Ki An

I am playing the game the way I like it. Well, to a certain extent. I would like to be able to move my money making characters to low sec and make more isk there than I make risk free in high sec. This is why I'm in this debate. I want proper risk vs reward. That would make the game more fun for me. Let's call it my ulterior motive, even though it's shooting my current money maker in the foot.



Ok then... great! You know what you want, now think of the way how to achieve it. My idea would be to join forces with some of your friends (and make some new ones) and head out to the 0.0. It's much safer and profitable to move your moneymaking there when you have friends beside you. Then you can play a role of a real diplomat aranging a safe pocket of space where no big aliance would attack you, and if you are a normal hard working employee in some real life corp (well, at least 90% of people here are) you don't have much opportunity to do politics actively. You'll find that it's a new experience and that it is funSmile.

Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.08.23 21:51:00 - [314]
 

Originally by: Keiretsu Destroyer

Ok then... great! You know what you want, now think of the way how to achieve it. My idea would be to join forces with some of your friends (and make some new ones) and head out to the 0.0. It's much safer and profitable to move your moneymaking there when you have friends beside you. Then you can play a role of a real diplomat aranging a safe pocket of space where no big aliance would attack you, and if you are a normal hard working employee in some real life corp (well, at least 90% of people here are) you don't have much opportunity to do politics actively. You'll find that it's a new experience and that it is funSmile.


Well, since I've played a lot longer than you it might not surprise you that I've already lived in 0.0. Quite a bit actually. What you're telling me to do here is basically exactly what I have been lobbying against. You're telling me to forget low sec, because I should go to 0.0. That's what we're trying to fix here. Glad you noticed.

van Uber
Swedish Aerospace Inc
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2008.08.23 22:07:00 - [315]
 

Originally by: Le Skunk


This threatens the balance of the game. Level 4 missions should be either a) moved b) give less rewards or preferebly c) made a LOT harder.

Risk vs Reward




If the missions were to be made dynamic, as opposed to the current, incredibly predictable scenarios. They would be a lot harder (and fun too, I'd imagine).

- create random elements in every mission, such as NPC size, type and behaviour.
- make the objectives dynamic (ie let the Agent alter the objectives during a mission).
- make the difficulty dynamic in response to the number of player ships that go through the gate.
- make some missions competeable between different gangs/fleets, not necessarily that they have to pvp, just compete within a mission.
- etc, etc...

Keiretsu Destroyer
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2008.08.23 22:16:00 - [316]
 

Edited by: Keiretsu Destroyer on 23/08/2008 22:29:14
Edited by: Keiretsu Destroyer on 23/08/2008 22:17:18
Ok, Ki An, I think I see your point. An idea just crossed my mind, don't realy know if it was mentioned somewhere earlier. This is just a suggestion, nothing more... I don't even know would it solve the problem:
Based on previous pvp experience, that is number of "points" gained on previously destroyed ships, number of points lost on loosing your ship and +,-,* or / something, the NPC bounty is formed on each and every one in eve. That could also apply to hardcore carebears making them profitable targets. When you kill someone, you get the isk from that "NPC bounty" (formed by victim's kill points and the ship he was in when you destroyed him) + dropped items + player bounty (if any) + maybe salvage (if you have enough time and a salvager) and that makes one big fat kill. You also gain points and increased bounty on your head mixed with a certain dose of satisfaction. The way I see it, carebears and higsec mission runners will not benefit from this in any way, unless they turn to pvp and people will be encouraged by massive NPC isk rewards to do pvp since it would be more profitable than doing lvl4s in high-sec.
Edit:After all, you can look at this new concept as on pvp reshaped mission. You get the isk from npc's for doing pvp.

This is just a thought. Would this solve your problem?

GallenteCitizen20080615
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.08.24 00:54:00 - [317]
 

variations such as the one mentioned above would be nice to see in level 4's


so that there isnt a mission site in which you can know what your tanking

that alone should provide more suttle effect and there shouldnt be many whine about it either Very Happy oooh wait this is the eve forums .........Very HappyVery HappyVery HappyVery Happy

Krasnij Okjabre
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2008.08.24 00:57:00 - [318]
 

Originally by: Kwedaras
omgwtfwalloftextwhine


I'm billing you for my next opticians visit.

Just stop whineposting.

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.08.24 01:11:00 - [319]
 

Originally by: van Uber
Originally by: Le Skunk


This threatens the balance of the game. Level 4 missions should be either a) moved b) give less rewards or preferebly c) made a LOT harder.

Risk vs Reward




If the missions were to be made dynamic, as opposed to the current, incredibly predictable scenarios. They would be a lot harder (and fun too, I'd imagine).

- create random elements in every mission, such as NPC size, type and behaviour.
- make the objectives dynamic (ie let the Agent alter the objectives during a mission).
- make the difficulty dynamic in response to the number of player ships that go through the gate.
- make some missions competeable between different gangs/fleets, not necessarily that they have to pvp, just compete within a mission.
- etc, etc...


Or ou could just go PvPing, and then you'd have your very own 'dynamic mission'. Better yet, it actually drops T2 or faction loot.

Zephyr Rengate
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.08.24 01:31:00 - [320]
 

No more high-sec LP.

Nexus Kinnon
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2008.08.24 01:37:00 - [321]
 

Originally by: Zephyr Rengate
No more high-sec LP.


consequences: no more cheap faction gear/ships Mad

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2008.08.24 01:46:00 - [322]
 

Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate
No more high-sec LP.


consequences: no more cheap faction gear/ships Mad


I think it's probably a positive consequence. Raises the value of the labor put into mission running.

Judas Jones
Amarr
UK Freedom Fighters
Focused Intentions
Posted - 2008.08.24 02:10:00 - [323]
 

Quote:
Risk vs Reward


ArrowWhere is the risk in scamming?
ArrowWhere is the risk in setting up dodgy Buy Orders?
ArrowWhere is the risk in setting up dodgy contract orders?
ArrowWhere is the risk in corp thieving?
ArrowWhere is the risk in using alts?
ArrowWhere is the risk in using alt spie?
ArrowWhere is the risk in many of the deep 0.0 secured systems?
ArrowWhere is the risk in being a pirate in low sec and below, why are there no roaming npc gangs looking for "criminals"?
ArrowWhere is the risk in doing something you have trainned for, gainned experience in, invested in equipment and perfected technique?
ArrowWhere is the risk in playing "station docking games", why can you 'murder' someone and dock 15 minutes later?
ArrowWhere is the risk in playing Eve, all aspects, giving people actual choice's and maybe, maybe just have some fun?

There are many aspects of Eve that are not entirely in tune or balanced, everyone naturally want's the game changed in favour of the style of play they prefer. This, is not pratical, you will never please everyone all of the time! However, CCP needs to please the majority of it's player base in order to simply survive as a company and gain investment and continued growth. The Risk vs Reward arguement has no merit in-game, its only real application applies to CCP, what are they prepared to risk and for what possiable reward? Do they risk alienating there hi-sec playerbase in order to reward the low sec pirates and Alliance mission runners?

Personally, I don't know and I really don't give a ****... It;s a game and when it stops being fun, people will stop playing, and once that happens, i'm sure you Risk vs Reward fanatics will get the game of your dreams...at least until they close down the server not long there after.

Ruze
Amarr
Next Stage Initiative
Posted - 2008.08.24 02:17:00 - [324]
 

Originally by: Judas Jones
Quote:
Risk vs Reward


ArrowWhere is the risk in scamming?
ArrowWhere is the risk in setting up dodgy Buy Orders?
ArrowWhere is the risk in setting up dodgy contract orders?
ArrowWhere is the risk in corp thieving?
ArrowWhere is the risk in using alts?
ArrowWhere is the risk in using alt spie?
ArrowWhere is the risk in many of the deep 0.0 secured systems?
ArrowWhere is the risk in being a pirate in low sec and below, why are there no roaming npc gangs looking for "criminals"?
ArrowWhere is the risk in doing something you have trainned for, gainned experience in, invested in equipment and perfected technique?
ArrowWhere is the risk in playing "station docking games", why can you 'murder' someone and dock 15 minutes later?
ArrowWhere is the risk in playing Eve, all aspects, giving people actual choice's and maybe, maybe just have some fun?

There are many aspects of Eve that are not entirely in tune or balanced, everyone naturally want's the game changed in favour of the style of play they prefer. This, is not pratical, you will never please everyone all of the time! However, CCP needs to please the majority of it's player base in order to simply survive as a company and gain investment and continued growth. The Risk vs Reward arguement has no merit in-game, its only real application applies to CCP, what are they prepared to risk and for what possiable reward? Do they risk alienating there hi-sec playerbase in order to reward the low sec pirates and Alliance mission runners?

Personally, I don't know and I really don't give a ****... It;s a game and when it stops being fun, people will stop playing, and once that happens, i'm sure you Risk vs Reward fanatics will get the game of your dreams...at least until they close down the server not long there after.


You're so right.

Luckily, I found my new home. Well, well away from conventional hisec. Still in an area I can do missions. Deep within losec (logistics are a b*tch, of course).

I am happy. Probably won't hear much complaining after this. The rest of you can go hump goats for all I care Laughing

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.08.24 02:22:00 - [325]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 24/08/2008 02:22:19
Originally by: Judas Jones

ArrowWhere is the risk in scamming?



Being unsuccessful and losing time (and time = ISK generally), being branded as a scammer, etc.

Originally by: Judas Jones

ArrowWhere is the risk in setting up dodgy Buy Orders?



Setting them up costs a bit, ties down your capital (which could be multiplying itself in eve bank for instance, or used on things to make you better at your profession), some time too, and there's a very large chance that they won't be fullfilled.

Originally by: Judas Jones

ArrowWhere is the risk in setting up dodgy contract orders?



See above.

Originally by: Judas Jones

ArrowWhere is the risk in corp thieving?



Aside it being a very time consuming thing (to get into corp / get trusted) in the first place with risk that it wont pay off, it runs the very real risk of you not being able to use your main much anymore because they keep giving you roles and forcibly keeping you in corp, and the fact that they might call your future corps and mess up your plans.

Originally by: Judas Jones

ArrowWhere is the risk in using alts?



None, nerf alts.

Originally by: Judas Jones

ArrowWhere is the risk in using alt spie?



None, nerf alts.

Originally by: Judas Jones

ArrowWhere is the risk in many of the deep 0.0 secured systems?



Them not being so secure, requiring effort/time/teamwork to keep them secure, and so on... you run the risk of having to defend your system.

Originally by: Judas Jones

ArrowWhere is the risk in being a pirate in low sec and below, why are there no roaming npc gangs looking for "criminals"?



Because there are roaming player gangs looking for criminals (not to mention other pirates). Pirates tend to lose ships on a relatively regular basis - most of us consider it a cost of doing business. There is the risk if your financial buffer is low (or if you suck) that your losses will completely drive you out of piracy.

Claiming pirates have no risk because theres no npcs shooting them (there are, btw, sentry guns) is like claiming low-sec haulers have no risks because there's no npcs shooting them.

Originally by: Judas Jones

ArrowWhere is the risk in doing something you have trainned for, gainned experience in, invested in equipment and perfected technique?



Where's the risk in training skills? Omg. Lol. Risks (and effort) vs reward applies to in-game mechanics and professions, not player skills. Naturally a player who knows how to play or is more naturally capable runs less risk doing the same thing then a player who doesn't. Should we nerf too high IQs, too? Laughing

Originally by: Judas Jones

ArrowWhere is the risk in playing "station docking games", why can you 'murder' someone and dock 15 minutes later?



LOL. If you took 15 minutes to dock, not even a Carrier would have any chance of docking. You require a minute to dock. It's enough time to gank anything but a capital - sometimes BS get to dock, sometimes they just don't.

Judas Jones
Amarr
UK Freedom Fighters
Focused Intentions
Posted - 2008.08.24 02:58:00 - [326]
 

You seemed to have missed the "point" Branko so I'll quote a few of my points and elaborate...

Let me break it down:

Quote:
Where is the risk in scamming?

People are constantly saying that mission runner's are 'too safe', well, I ask you what risk does a scammer have to there property? Wheres the physical danger coming from? The accountability of potential consequence in physical loss?

Quote:
Where is the risk in setting up dodgy Buy Orders?

You think, its a risk of investment and time putting up, for example, a buy order for a paladin for 690'000'00 isk? or 1'250'000'00 on contract (putting in 1.25bil in description to confuse the potentail mark) or market? Laughing

Quote:
Where is the risk in corp thieving?

Originally by: "Cpt Branko"
Aside it being a very time consuming thing (to get into corp / get trusted) in the first place with risk that it wont pay off, it runs the very real risk of you not being able to use your main much anymore because they keep giving you roles and forcibly keeping you in corp, and the fact that they might call your future corps and mess up your plans.

a lot of corp thieves are simply taking advantage, and im not sure what 'build' of Eve your using, but the current one lets you 'block' them from giving you any new roles. Rolling Eyes I.E...No Risk (Trasnfer assets to main, sell character, buy new character, gloat on main, rinse and repeat)

Quote:
Where is the risk in many of the deep 0.0 secured systems?

Rolling EyesI'm well aware of Blob Online in 0.0 space as im sure you are aware of gate camps, choke points, cyno jammers etc...

Quote:
Where is the risk in being a pirate in low sec and below, why are there no roaming npc gangs looking for "criminals"?

Rolling EyesMost pirates find there "pray" in belts, plexes and the like, without sentry guns which follows onto station docking games, as in, reference to the 15 minute global criminal cooldown, warping between safe spots, then after 15mins, sitting next to a station, docking, undocking, docking, undocking, smack talking... ohh the risk!

Quote:
Where is the risk in doing something you have trainned for, gainned experience in, invested in equipment and perfected technique?

Laughing So many people coplain about mission runners being able to turn a profit, especially after said mission runner has invested in skill points, trainned for it, invested in capital and equipment and gained pratical expeirence... I was being ironic, sarcastic Cool

Originally by: "Cpt Branko"
Where's the risk in training skills? Omg. Lol. Risks (and effort) vs reward applies to in-game mechanics and professions, not player skills. Naturally a player who knows how to play or is more naturally capable runs less risk doing the same thing then a player who doesn't. Should we nerf too high IQs, too?


Rolling EyesAt least you know your safe from one of the potential nerfs coming soon.Wink





Catherine Frasier
Posted - 2008.08.24 03:22:00 - [327]
 

Originally by: Le Skunk
People can sit in 98% safety, semi afk running missions and making a fortune in isk ith no danger to themselves.
Just saying that's the way things are doesn't make it so. Much as when people prate about mission runners making umpteen million isk per minute (just pulling some random number out of their sphincter) and then compare that to some other fantasy number purported to represent mining income, or ratting income, or whatever they think real players should do with their time.

Straw men all.

Kransthow
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2008.08.24 04:17:00 - [328]
 

Thought provoker go!

High sec lvl 4 missions runners.
Justify why you deserve your current rewards.

nkdan
Posted - 2008.08.24 04:35:00 - [329]
 

Because its a game of two halves. Half have 0.4 and below and half have 0.5 and above. Keeps everyone happy that way. Now all of you whiners **** off and play your own game and stop trying to change other peoples way of playing.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.08.24 04:42:00 - [330]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 24/08/2008 04:44:44

Quote:

People are constantly saying that mission runner's are 'too safe', well, I ask you what risk does a scammer have to there property? Wheres the physical danger coming from? The accountability of potential consequence in physical loss?



It's a different kind of risk? Imagine if your mission might give you LP/ISK/etc, but it may not despite you putting in your efforts - all depending on how well you pulled it (and people aren't scripted NPCs) off coupled with a bit of luck?

Quote:

corp thieving



What's the risk if people leave estamel's invulns in jetcans and I take them in a noobship? If people are willing to give you free stuff, then well, OK.

Also, time. Your corp theft might work or might not work, but you spend a lot of time engieering the whole thing.

Understand that losing time while gaining nothing is a risk as well.

Quote:

Rolling EyesMost pirates find there "pray" in belts, plexes and the like, without sentry guns which follows onto station docking games, as in, reference to the 15 minute global criminal cooldown, warping between safe spots, then after 15mins, sitting next to a station, docking, undocking, docking, undocking, smack talking... ohh the risk!



So, wait:
(a) Pirates are immune to gatecamps.
(b) Pirates cannot die, nor do ever fight opponents which can kill them.
(c) Pirates can never fall prey to a gank trap.
(d) Pirates are never actively hunted by anyone?
(e) Pirates only pick fights that they're somehow (magically) sure they can win?

Seriously, I want to live in your EvE.

Fact of the matter is:
- Pirates have to be worried about both FW gatecamps and other pirate gatecamps, with FW being more deadly thanks to bigger gangs with more tacklers which other pirates cannot generally use under sentries.
- Pirates have to worry about gank traps. Attacking someone in a belt/complex/whatever can often turn into reinforcements warping in and you getting shafted.
- Pirates are generally hunted by both other pirates, by anti-pirates, and by FW gangs. Neutrals have to only really fear pirates.
- Furthermore, you're often engaging in fights where you're not *sure* you can win. There's risk in being blown up at all times. Generally speaking, if you're not going to do hard fights, you might as well spend most of your time docked avoiding them, and therefore making no cash at all.
- You're often forced to fight without 100% reliable intel, since the opportunity goes away, and piracy is all about taking opportunities (and with them, risks).

Furthermore, if you're being hunted after killing someone, you just dock right away. You know you can dock with GCC, right?

Game mechanic wise, pirates have many more things to fear then neutrals living in low-sec. The fact that only half or a third of the 'wanna-be' succeeds in living the pirate life means the average -10 you're facing is doing alright (despite increased danger) not because game mechanics give him a riskless existence but because he's learned how to avoid taking unnecessary risks and figure a way around sticky situations, or else he'd be broke and would have to stop being a pirate (or would have to get a high-sec L4 farming alt).

Quote:

Mission runners invest skills and learn how to do stuff.



So do suicide gankers, pirates, miners, industrialists, 0.0 PvP-ers, traders, scammers and basically everyone else. Your point is?


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