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EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
Posted - 2008.08.14 14:39:00 - [181]
 

Edited by: EBANK Ricdic on 14/08/2008 14:40:51
Originally by: Seeing EyeDog
I also find it funny how people are bringing up mentions of peopel impersonating In-Game investment personalities. Howcome theres protection against losing your ISK to an imposter, but theres none whatsoever for losing your ISK to these outright scams of IPOs and "Banks"??

It's one or the other, CCP...make a decision, and apply it universally.


CCP has the same rules for everyone. If you believe someone is impersonating your character (not just some random joe with a similar name) then you should petition them.

There have probably been about 10 EBANK Ricdic characters created with differnt naming variations such as :

EBANK Ricdlc
EBANK Ricdics
EBANK Ric****
EBANK Riddic

In every single case I have petitioned and the character has had a forced name change imposed. My reasoning when petitioning is that the person is not only trying to impersonate my character however they are also using the Eve Online fonts to try and trick players into sending cash to the wrong player. Ingame EBANK Ricdic and EBANK Ricdlc are almost idential.

Now, in a few of these cases people took my bio, they took my corp name (exact same name is allowed) and the ticker was slightly changed such as VBANK or EB4NK. Also the character picture was emulated.

The eula quite clearly states that impersonation is not acceptable of "any player". I would suggest anyone who isn't a "celeb" and has a failed petition (with a clear case of impersonation) escalates to a senior GM. GM's abide by the EULA with all players, no-one gets special treatment.

I am disturbed by the amount of people suggesting this should be an allowed mechanic. It's extremely easy to almost perfectly imitate another person or entity in Eve due to the fonts in use which should be a blatant exploit for clear-cut impersonations. These people aren't relying on the stupidity of other people, they are using the graphical interface and play on letters to fool people into these situations.

I am glad the OP got renamed and I suggest ANYONE else who is being clearly impersonated by another to immediately petition to CCP. The Eve terms are quite clear about this and have been since Eve started. Play by the rules or quit Eve (same thing I say regarding macro miners and isk seller/buyers as there is no difference). In both cases and the OP's case the rules are being broken, end of story.

Melor Rend
Posted - 2008.08.14 14:40:00 - [182]
 

Didn't read everything but imo it sucks that CCP took away the ISK from the OP! Impersonating a GM or Dev is one thing but impersonating a player? Why the hell not?!

If scams like the EIB are ok then why not this one? Don't see a problem with this scam tbh. The person who traded an MS without checking his trading partner deserves to get his ISK stolen and should be banned for wasting the GMs time. Wink

Forluhn
Amarr
Enlightened Industries
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
Posted - 2008.08.14 14:48:00 - [183]
 

IMHO Exploiting someone's wealth through the use of font indifferences is quite lame. Had you claimed to be an apprentice of Chribba then fair game, but using an 8 in place of a B just isn't right.

Nexa Necis
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.08.14 15:59:00 - [184]
 

Well this should be interesting. I had no clue about this rule and I have someone who not only made a character name similar to mine, Nexa Neci5, they even went so far as to create a corp named THE REALLY AWESOME PLAYERS. adding the period on the end of the corp and a 5 as an S in the character name.

This person trolls lots of my threads, pretends to be me in game, asking for ISK and such. They even make posts pretending to be me and representing my corp.

I have petitioned it. I haven't heard a response yet.

Seeing EyeDog
Posted - 2008.08.14 16:08:00 - [185]
 

Originally by: Melor Rend
Didn't read everything but imo it sucks that CCP took away the ISK from the OP! Impersonating a GM or Dev is one thing but impersonating a player? Why the hell not?!

If scams like the EIB are ok then why not this one? Don't see a problem with this scam tbh. The person who traded an MS without checking his trading partner deserves to get his ISK stolen and should be banned for wasting the GMs time. Wink


QFT...srsly, Scamming is an accepted part of the game. You cant allow one form of perfectly fine scamming, over another...either u allow scams or you dont. There should be no waffling on this issue.

Seeing EyeDog
Posted - 2008.08.14 16:09:00 - [186]
 

Originally by: EBANK Ricdic

I am disturbed by the amount of people suggesting this should be an allowed mechanic. It's extremely easy to almost perfectly imitate another person or entity in Eve due to the fonts in use which should be a blatant exploit for clear-cut impersonations. These people aren't relying on the stupidity of other people, they are using the graphical interface and play on letters to fool people into these situations.


Well, I never go here, but Im going to. Ever heard of a con-artist? They exist in RL, which Eve (apparently) simulates...why shouldnt they be allowed here again?

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2008.08.14 16:48:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: Seeing EyeDog
Well, I never go here, but Im going to. Ever heard of a con-artist? They exist in RL, which Eve (apparently) simulates...why shouldnt they be allowed here again?
Con artist are illegal in RL so they are illegal in Eve... when found out. RL comparison's are tricky beasts.

The bottom line is that name/corp impersonation is not exclusively used for confidence games. This particular action was used to assassinate the reputation of other players. CCP decided long ago, 2003 actually, that name/corp impersonation could be used specifically with the intent to do out of game harm to other players.

This process went above and beyond non-consensual combat and entered into the cyber-stalker/cyber-griefer areas. So, while many scams are allowed impersonation scams are not simply because they run afoul of this particular tactic.

It is simple: You can fake trustworthiness to commit a scam, you can not fake being a specific trustworthy someone to commit any action. And just like in Real Life: Action is not taken until someone notices.

PS: IMHO all the people who say this should be allowed are essentially no named no reputation lackwits. Their opinion should be heard but it should also be weighted for what it really is... the have-not's trying to ruin things for the have's.



Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.08.14 16:50:00 - [188]
 

Edited by: Avon on 14/08/2008 16:50:13
Originally by: Seeing EyeDog
They exist in RL, which Eve (apparently) simulates...


Postin' from my pod in a star-system not very near you.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.08.14 19:31:00 - [189]
 

Originally by: Seeing EyeDog
so then..why havent the 2023423832402334 variations of my mains name been banned yet?...again, if you're not an Eve-Celeb, you're not entitled to protection, end of story.
Because just having a name that is similar to that of another character isn't illegal — only ones that look like CCP officials' names are. It's not until they use those similarities to impersonate other characters that they break the rules.

Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Posted - 2008.08.14 19:59:00 - [190]
 

It's pretty fair from where I'm standing, deliberately creating names to scam off people's reputations is bad for EVE as a game overall. Supporting Chribba is a good move.

During every ISS IPO, I used to have multiple people try to create similar characters, specifically for the purpose of profiting from poor typers etc. They all had their names changed by CCP. I think in total it was about 25 incidents, including ones which I spotted and notified people like Torn Soul amongst others.

If CCP hadn't done that, then there would be a limited market forum, and people like Chribba woudln't be doing things like EVE-Files, which is an astoundingly good development for EVE.

So no sympathy from me. Go work out how to do a clever scam.

What is not fair is that you can't chose another name.

Seeing EyeDog
Posted - 2008.08.14 20:01:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Seeing EyeDog
so then..why havent the 2023423832402334 variations of my mains name been banned yet?...again, if you're not an Eve-Celeb, you're not entitled to protection, end of story.
Because just having a name that is similar to that of another character isn't illegal only ones that look like CCP officials' names are. It's not until they use those similarities to impersonate other characters that they break the rules.


since when is Chribba a CCP official, again?

Sergeant Spot
Galactic Geographic BookMark Surveying Inc.
Posted - 2008.08.14 20:04:00 - [192]
 

Frankly, I'm surprised no one has commented on the in game **** merchant story I told, and how CCP supported him by changing a similar scammer's name.

**** is a 4 letter word begining with P, ends in N, and also contains an O and a R.

Anyway, this is LONG LONG established policy, years and years old.

Ast3r0iD
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.08.14 20:13:00 - [193]
 

Originally by: Selene D'Celeste
Originally by: Richard Angevian
Biggest mistake you made was in not laundering the isk out of that account as soon as you got it. Yeah, you'd have ruined that toon with a negative balance but you'd have kept the isk :)



FYI, CCP does know how to check more than one character, and they do. Nice attempt though.


Nothing stopping you buying xxx amount of billion's worth of a commen product and putting it in secure cans around eve. I'd love to see ccp track that.

Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.08.14 20:35:00 - [194]
 


Well deserved to be honest.

In fact... I'm going to petition you for impersonating EVECitizen19B21743

LaughingLaughingLaughing


Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.08.14 20:39:00 - [195]
 

Originally by: Seeing EyeDog
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Seeing EyeDog
so then..why havent the 2023423832402334 variations of my mains name been banned yet?...again, if you're not an Eve-Celeb, you're not entitled to protection, end of story.
Because just having a name that is similar to that of another character isn't illegal — only ones that look like CCP officials' names are. It's not until they use those similarities to impersonate other characters that they break the rules.
since when is Chribba a CCP official, again?
Read what I wrote again: having the same name as some other character isn't illegal — only having names similar to CCP officials. Using a similar name to impersonate people, however, is illegal.

They EULA says so:
Originally by: EULA
2 B. Passwords and names
No player may use the character name of another player to impersonate or falsely represent his or her identity.

The Forum rules say the same (and explicitly extends that rule to the game):
Originally by: EVE Forum Rules
15. Impersonating another forum user, moderator, volunteer, administrator or CCP employee is strictly prohibited.
You are expressly forbidden from impersonating anyone else, including those named above, on the forum or in the game, even in jest. This may be grounds for permanent loss of your Eve account.

The Chat Channel Rules of Conduct repeat that rule:
Originally by: Chat Channels: Rules of Conduct
11. Impersonating another channel patron, volunteer or CCP employee is strictly prohibited and may result in the permanent revocation of your channel access, temporary suspension or permanent banning of your account.

Depending how you define "chat" and "other submissions", the Website Terms of Use, section 6.1.VI also applies:
Originally by: Website Terms of Use
You further agree that you will not: […] Make any false representation, including impersonation of any person or entity or misrepresentation of your affiliation with any person or entity

Whether Chribba is a CCP official or not is irrelevant. You're still not allowed to impersonate him.

Seeing EyeDog
Posted - 2008.08.14 20:42:00 - [196]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Whether Chribba is a CCP official or not is irrelevant. You're still not allowed to impersonate him.


Because you say so? Or because the rule is vague? lol...neither of which make me content.

Callib Gor'Karrithe
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.08.14 20:42:00 - [197]
 

Edited by: Callib Gor''Karrithe on 14/08/2008 20:42:43

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.08.14 20:47:00 - [198]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 14/08/2008 20:47:55
Originally by: Seeing EyeDog
Because you say so? Or because the rule is vague? lol...neither of which make me content.
Because the rules say so. Over and over. Read them. Notice how they always extend beyond officials.

There is no vagueness unless you are unable to read.

EVECitizen19821743
Posted - 2008.08.14 21:01:00 - [199]
 

Originally by: Serenity Steele
It's pretty fair from where I'm standing, deliberately creating names to scam off people's reputations is bad for EVE as a game overall. Supporting Chribba is a good move.

During every ISS IPO, I used to have multiple people try to create similar characters, specifically for the purpose of profiting from poor typers etc. They all had their names changed by CCP. I think in total it was about 25 incidents, including ones which I spotted and notified people like Torn Soul amongst others.

If CCP hadn't done that, then there would be a limited market forum, and people like Chribba woudln't be doing things like EVE-Files, which is an astoundingly good development for EVE.

So no sympathy from me. Go work out how to do a clever scam.

What is not fair is that you can't chose another name.


I can choose another name :) Just got to petition and get it changed :)

EVECitizen

Nexa Necis
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.08.14 21:19:00 - [200]
 

The GM's answered my petition, apparently the person deleted the character and corp on their own. The GM did advise though that should this happen again, I should repetition.

Change your name to Abbirhc or Bizzaro Chribba.

Locke DieDrake
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.08.14 21:36:00 - [201]
 

Originally by: Ast3r0iD
Originally by: Selene D'Celeste
Originally by: Richard Angevian
Biggest mistake you made was in not laundering the isk out of that account as soon as you got it. Yeah, you'd have ruined that toon with a negative balance but you'd have kept the isk :)



FYI, CCP does know how to check more than one character, and they do. Nice attempt though.


Nothing stopping you buying xxx amount of billion's worth of a commen product and putting it in secure cans around eve. I'd love to see ccp track that.

You aren't really a computer guy are you?

That sort of thing is EASILY tracked by the eve client/server. All a gm would need is your wallet history, your market history and your Assets history. It would be trivial to trail the isk.

Also, you may "pass the isk along" in some convoluted scam to trick CCP, even if you manage to hide the asset from CCP (near impossible) they will just remove X isk from your wallet, all the way into NEGATIVE balance. They will do that to EVERY TOON that touched the money. I've seen it happen.


Jaabaa Prime
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2008.08.14 21:59:00 - [202]
 

Originally by: EVECitizen19821743
I spent quite a lot of time carefully reading the EULA before I carried out this operation.

There is reading ability and then there's reading comprehension, you might be able to do the 1st but you seriously fail at the second one.

BTW, me and my wife are Chribba, err, Brian WinkRazz

EVECitizen19821743
Posted - 2008.08.14 22:23:00 - [203]
 

Originally by: Jaabaa Prime
Originally by: EVECitizen19821743
I spent quite a lot of time carefully reading the EULA before I carried out this operation.

There is reading ability and then there's reading comprehension, you might be able to do the 1st but you seriously fail at the second one.

BTW, me and my wife are Chribba, err, Brian WinkRazz


The EULA is not clear.

EVECitizen

Volar Kang
Gallente
Ragged Rock Industries
Posted - 2008.08.14 22:46:00 - [204]
 

Why is it ok to cheat people in a game? I have never understood how people can justify that cheating in RL is bad but cheating people over the internet is ok.

Locke DieDrake
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2008.08.14 22:52:00 - [205]
 

Originally by: Volar Kang
Why is it ok to cheat people in a game? I have never understood how people can justify that cheating in RL is bad but cheating people over the internet is ok.


Cheat in real life = someone lost something of value that can't be replaced with the click of a mouse.

Cheat someone on the internet in a game setting = role playing and no real loss for any real person.

I can see a big difference.

Also, ask this question instead

Why is ok to kill people in a game? I have never understood how people can justify that killing in RL is bad but killing over the internet is ok?

See how silly it sounds now?

Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente
Shadow Templars
Posted - 2008.08.15 06:27:00 - [206]
 

Honestly guys and gals, this is getting really PATHETIC!

The rules have been enforced since early 2004 as far as I know, and this is one of the rules that is good for everyone! And one of those changes that most veterans , regular and new players can easily accept. And have been as such accepted since then! Calling a change this far back in time one that makes EVE more "carebear" shows the lack of brains in the poster! Get real will you!?

It is not allowed to impersonate anyone! A close name is in itself not illegal, but as soon you are starting to exploit the similarity against the other person with the similar name, corp, ticker, portrait etc etc etc. then you are impersonating! And that is an overt act of exploit, which can be ground for name changes and warnings, maybe even bans in some cases! So says the rules! And those rules have been around long before more then half of the current playerbase joined the game! So leave it be ok?? End of debate!


Skylar Keenan
Amarr
Posted - 2008.08.15 11:20:00 - [207]
 

You're putting words in my mouth. I never postulated that it WAS allowed, only arguing that it SHOULD be allowed. I see no way this is different from other scamming already occuring in the game, so if current EULA prevents this, I'm all for a change of EULA. That clear enough for you?

Originally by: Gnulpie

Because it is in the EULA expressivly forbidden. You can also say that you cannot see any reason for not selling isk on ebay, not using macros etc. because all that is something what YOU want to do.

But it is not your game. You are not setting the rules. It is CCP who is setting the rules. If you cannot accept these rules, go elsewhere.

If they say, impersonating other chars (and it doesn't matter if they are famous or not) is forbidden, then it is the best (any only) reason why not to use such a method. If you don't care and violate the eula, you will have to live with the consequences.


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