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Lillian D'Florite
Posted - 2008.08.13 23:52:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Gottii
Moral of the story...never use Chribba's name in vain...




Thou shall not use thy Lord Chribba's name in vain?


Mika Meroko
Minmatar
Crayon Posting Inc
Posted - 2008.08.13 23:53:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Danton Marcellus
If you don't know Chribba well enough to know what corporation and alliance he is in you have no business using him as a middleman, wth kind of pansyassing is this coming here crying about you not knowing whom you gave your stuff?



to be fair, is the OP crying about how GM took his iskies away...



oh, and yeah, enough of the tough talk...

EULA rules. *shrugs*


we were just explaining to the OP why his iskies got taken away...


that is all.


(to reiterate: .. impersonating others is bad mmkay? =P)

Matalino
Posted - 2008.08.13 23:54:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Lillian D'Florite
Originally by: Gottii
Moral of the story...never use Chribba's name in vain...




Thou shall not use thy Lord Chribba's name in vain?


Amen!

Laughing

Mika Meroko
Minmatar
Crayon Posting Inc
Posted - 2008.08.13 23:55:00 - [94]
 

Edited by: Mika Meroko on 13/08/2008 23:55:33
Originally by: Matalino
Originally by: Lillian D'Florite
Originally by: Gottii
Moral of the story...never use Chribba's name in vain...




Thou shall not use thy Lord Chribba's name in vain?


Amen!

Laughing



I swear, at this rate Chribba will become the next Leeroy Jerkins...(Fame wise of course..)

oilio
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.08.13 23:55:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Nexa Necis
According to the rules, you can't even do it in jest.

Impersonating another forum user, moderator, volunteer, administrator or CCP employee is strictly prohibited.
You are expressly forbidden from impersonating anyone else, including those named above, on the forum or in the game, even in jest. This may be grounds for permanent loss of your Eve account.


I have someone that has done this for months now. I had not petitioned it because I had no clue it was against the rules.


Yaeh, it has to be against the rules really.

Problem is that if they allow impersionation, you will get people creating near identical names and then saying a bunch of nasty stuff in local with the idea of damaging the reputation of the real player. I don't think it's scamming that CCP are worried about - it's kind of "identity theft" to ruin someone's reputation.

Happened to me on Team Fortress one time (of all places). A guy took my name and started ranting a bunch of racism on various servers. Caused a lot of hostility for a while - until I just gave up and changed my name.

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2008.08.13 23:57:00 - [96]
 

Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 14/08/2008 00:00:37
Originally by: Mika Meroko
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
If you don't know Chribba well enough to know what corporation and alliance he is in you have no business using him as a middleman, wth kind of pansyassing is this coming here crying about you not knowing whom you gave your stuff?



to be fair, is the OP crying about how GM took his iskies away...



oh, and yeah, enough of the tough talk...

EULA rules. *shrugs*


we were just explaining to the OP why his iskies got taken away...


that is all.


(to reiterate: .. impersonating others is bad mmkay? =P)


Knocking in the heads of the idiots giving him money in the first place would be dealing with the problem at its root.

Just start a character called Chrippa and an alliance called Outerland Empire and these dimwits will still think your rep is solid.

Do I condone scamming? No. Do I get tired of hearing people complaining about this that and the other dealing with scamming. Hell yes, can't stand these kind of people and their marks, so please make it a rule to only post about scamming in Crime & Punishment.

Esu Nahalas
Yote Patrol
Posted - 2008.08.13 23:59:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: EVECitizen19821743


Wouldn't have said an easy ride. I had to train corp management 1 :), wait until the real CHRIBBA was offline and there was a certain amount of social engineering on my part as the buyer said when I convoed him 'I didn't see you log on mate'



I just wasted ten minutes of my life reading this thread, because I thought you might have a point regarding "impersonation." WELL WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?

I hope you never see your isk again.

Korizan
Hysterically Unforgiving
Posted - 2008.08.14 00:04:00 - [98]
 

Of all the names you could have picked you picked one that offers mothership ship transactions and then proceeded to perform a scam involving a mothership.

You were impersonating cut and dry.

What I find funny is now you are placing all these warnings about it after you were caught and the ISK was seized.





heheheh
Phoenix Club
Posted - 2008.08.14 00:09:00 - [99]
 

Damn the people in charge of this game are going downhill fast,
Fair enough if you were impersonating staff, but you werent,
Chribbas just another guy at the end of the day, no one special.

Lillian D'Florite
Posted - 2008.08.14 00:19:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: heheheh
Damn the people in charge of this game are going downhill fast,
Fair enough if you were impersonating staff, but you werent,
Chribbas just another guy at the end of the day, no one special.



/me wonders if anyone would post on forum if Eve-files goes down....

and whos name people will call?

Pithecanthropus
Posted - 2008.08.14 00:26:00 - [101]
 

Ummmmm... duh, using a similar name incriminates you as trying to impersonate him. doesn't matter what you said or did. you even said it yourself...
Quote:
use an ALT similar to CHRIBBA

Last I checked, attempting to be similar is trying to impersonate. I'm willing to bet the character was even similar looking.

oilio
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.08.14 00:28:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: heheheh
Damn the people in charge of this game are going downhill fast,
Fair enough if you were impersonating staff, but you werent,
Chribbas just another guy at the end of the day, no one special.


You're missing the point.

What about if someone creates a character that looks almost identical to your name, and then starts being abusive, or racist, or whatever? I have been on the receiving end of this trick. The scamming part isn't a big deal - CCP don't care about scamming, but impersonation can be abused in an entirely different way.

If you allow impersonation, you will get people deliberately impersonating to trash someone's reputation.

Nexa Necis
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.08.14 00:30:00 - [103]
 

My only beef with the whole rule of it would be that it's put under the Forum rules section and not in the actual game section that the OP was linked to by the original GM.

If the person never came to the forums or clicked the forum rules tab, then they would have no idea. Not that ignorance of the rules is an excuse, but they should be in the appropriate spot really.

Tiirae
The 5th Freedom
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.08.14 00:46:00 - [104]
 

OP should get his ISK back and name the sucker who fell for it, just so we can laugh. Don't really care about the impersonation issue either way, I just want cheap lolz.

SpaceSavage
Posted - 2008.08.14 00:51:00 - [105]
 

ROFL this is ****ing bull**** once again from CCP.


5pinDizzy
Amarr
Pillow Fighters Inc
Posted - 2008.08.14 01:15:00 - [106]
 

Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 14/08/2008 01:24:18

Originally by: GM Krymus
To provide some clarification - impersonating another player, be it by creating a character with a similar character name as someone else or simply claiming you are the alt of someone (such as the 'I'm your CEO's alt' scam as described by F'nog), is not allowed.

Regards,

GM Krymus


+1 to the stance of CCP is bull****ting.

Nice policy U-turn change on the "I'm your CEO's alt" scam there.

A friend (Yes a real friend not me) lost about 400 mill to this scam.

Same race and look as the CEO. Around the same age and stuck the corp logo and policy info in his bio.

Basicly all his savings he'd been building up over around 2 1/2 months at the time. (yes I know some of you can earn that in 10 seconds using 20 accounts combined on your Geforce 10 gazillion multimonitor nasa computer)

He went to help channel and got laughed at fair enough, but also some pretty uncalled for nasty abuse from certain people at the time too.

I told him to petition and he got nothing back. You can probably add another couple of dozen other unsung cases to this,

This was around 18 months ago, so I don't know whats changed since then.

I gave him 100 mill but it wasn't much recompance at the time. Mad

The reason this scam worked so well on him is cause the guy convoed me at first, I said I couldn't give him anything cause I was broke (I was), was slightly suspicious but he was only after 5-10 mill from me.

I told my friend that the ceo's alt appears to be chattin to me says he wants isk, and he said I'll go talk to him. The fact I said it was added security and strength to the scammer. Then he said to me later that he gave him 400 million isk. I headbutted the desk.

It was my 2nd most horrible moment of eve, made worse by the treatment of the people in the help channel. Thats why I gave him 100 mill, I had to sell stuff to make it up at the time but it was my fault for the way I saw it.

Old story, and everyone said that's Eve at the time which is fine, cold and harsh n all, now apparently CCP are saying they protect people from it?

Rubbish.

Why should people be protected from impersonation, how is it not the same as contract scams when people miss one letter or one claus? I think we should all learn to accept the responsibility of our own actions ingame as thats how it's always supposed to have been.





GateScout
Posted - 2008.08.14 01:38:00 - [107]
 

Edited by: GateScout on 14/08/2008 01:42:21

Originally by: EVECitizen19821743
Not really bothered about the ISK tbh, the thing that bothers me is that some players have far to much protection from CCP.

You colossal ****ing moron. This is a businessnot your personal playground. CCP will, like any business owner, protect their current and future revenue. If douche nozzles like yourself don't like it, go code up your own game.

I'm am continually amazed at the idiots in this game.... Rolling Eyes

Joey Meow
MURAKAMI INDUSTRIES
Posted - 2008.08.14 01:45:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: SpaceSavage
ROFL this is ****ing bull**** once again from CCP.


Again, as others pointed out above:

Impersonation Rule has been in game for years now, shortly in 2004 they have introduced this!!!! So, this is NOT NEW, it is just that some idiots come into the game, and do not read the rules and regulations, with which, mind you, most of our characters have grown up. So, again, the rule has been on the books for at least 4 years, as far as I know - it HAS NEVER CHANGED, THIS IS NOT NEW!!!!

Pesky LaRue
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2008.08.14 02:36:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Panzerr

Laws only apply to actions, not to intentions. You may want to steal as long as you live, but if you don't actually steal, you don't go to jail.




you're either very confused, very dimwitted, or very naive, but either way, you're very wrong.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2008.08.14 02:50:00 - [110]
 

what about my alt, Plankton's Chainsaw?

Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2008.08.14 03:26:00 - [111]
 

OP may have a point, why is is ok to misrepresent an item or contract but it is not ok to misrepresent yourself?

Is impersonating a old friend of an alliance in order to gain access and intel/items an exploit? What about impersonating a Goonswarm recruiter as Goonfleet memebers love to do? I would hate for all of the great GS scams that give me such rofls to be reversed.

I could argue that all spy activities include impersonating a friend of the alliance and thus are not legit via the definition that GM Krymus and the EULA gave out. Not a flawless arguement but it does bring out some questions.

More clarification and the differences between my examples and the OP's case please?

Mika Meroko
Minmatar
Crayon Posting Inc
Posted - 2008.08.14 03:53:00 - [112]
 

Edited by: Mika Meroko on 14/08/2008 04:08:33


Originally by: Vaal Erit
OP may have a point, why is is ok to misrepresent an item or contract but it is not ok to misrepresent yourself?

Is impersonating a old friend of an alliance in order to gain access and intel/items an exploit? What about impersonating a Goonswarm recruiter as Goonfleet memebers love to do? I would hate for all of the great GS scams that give me such rofls to be reversed.

I could argue that all spy activities include impersonating a friend of the alliance and thus are not legit via the definition that GM Krymus and the EULA gave out. Not a flawless arguement but it does bring out some questions.

More clarification and the differences between my examples and the OP's case please?



theres a BIG difference trying to repackage an item (Refund/return something at a store thats obviously broken) vs trying to use another person's reputation (such as using another person's credit card...)



the former isnt going to get you arrested.... (now, before you say, dont bring in RL examples.. keep in mind CCP is the law here. and EULA says no no.)

yes, you can fake stuff and things, even people...


but the moment you TAKE someone's identity...to do bad things.. is not very rosy....CCP doesnt like that...

and now: to deal with your examples:
-----

Impersonating a old friend:... thats the same issue as this one, except that if you are doing that, you are probley not gonna pick a friend whos as visable and trusted as Chribba... and that you could probley get away with it without your cover being blown..<--key

they key there is: you are MORE likely to get away with it unnoticed... its still against the EULA...but no body would know if your cover is not blown...hence making you safe from it... (the OP picked Chribba... yah... if OP picked someone else whos less visible.. he might get away with it... if it werent for Chribba, he probley wouldnt be able to scam...but yeah the issue is: OP picked someone very visible and exploited Chribba's reputation (ID theft in a sense))


the difference in that: OP got CAUGHT doing this, using another person's ID and reputation for his gain (and breaking EULA...) if you pretending to be your friend, you are likely to get away with it if old friend doesnt play anymore and that you know how your friend acts....

people might just believe that you are your friend.


----
Goonswarm recruiter:

well, this case is different in that, errrm, is more of a title, not a person per-say... I could say I am an amateur gynotologist and yeah.... not gonna be hassled by people.

I am not impersonating someone by using the title. (granted it depends on the tile... if I call myself an MD.. then the MAS wont like me...)

hence the goon scams doesnt touch the EULA. since well, they are not using another person's ID.... they are using their OWN titles.(if they are an goon and say they are an recruiter for the goon, whos gonna argue?)

the difference here is: Chribba is a guy (?... well, I seen pictures of a guy anyways... ) while Goonswarm recruiter is a title... and titles are hard to be owned by someone... while identities are attached to people more so...

Edit: and no, you dont want to start an exsistential argument about personal identities with me =P.... I just wrote an 3 hour final exam on it XD

----

Vaal, and you are right.... the spy activities that involves impersonating someone/friend of alliance is not legit (if you follow the EULA to the line)... but the thing is, PROVING that someone was impersonated is a problem... like I said...

OP picked a very bad person to impersonate...



remember, theres a difference btwn ingame item scams and scams that uses out-of-game stuff, in this case it would be reputation....



hence yeah.... as long as you stay away from the EULA.. you are okay...

you can make a new char, built his reputation, get people's money then run off with it just fine... you just have to use your own

An Anarchyyt
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.08.14 04:31:00 - [113]
 

It should be easy to see why creating another character with a name similar might be an exploit of certain mechanics. But, I don't get why me going "Oh, I am Chribba" is against the rules if someone believed me. It's no different than any other scam where you lie and don't use any exploit.

Wynona
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.08.14 04:42:00 - [114]
 

It just keeps getting warmer and cuddlier in here. That's some awesome reacharound the victim got from CCP, I'll bet he's happier than a sissy in boys town right now. ugh

ImRedYoureDead
Trust Doesn't Rust
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.08.14 04:43:00 - [115]
 

With any large money transaction, whether it be real life or in game, You definately wanna make sure whatevers going on is legit. Whether it was against the EULA or not the guy who got scammed obviously didn't do his homework. I'm sure now, yes, he probably will do some checking up before risking such a large amount of ISK to scammers and thats good, but he should have been like that before. It always takes a major disaster before anyone actually decides to take preventative measures.... This is wrong.... Just do your damn research and prevent the disaster before it happens not afterwards.

Matalino
Posted - 2008.08.14 04:58:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Mika Meroko
I could argue that all spy activities include impersonating a friend of the alliance and thus are not legit via the definition that GM Krymus and the EULA gave out. Not a flawless arguement but it does bring out some questions.
Depends on how you do it.

If you pretend to be someone, then it is not legit.

If you pretend to be something, then it is.

You are welcome to pretend to be an independant player seaking to help build the alliance, when you are really an alt spy trying to tear them down.

You are not allowed to claim to be the alt of one of their members, or otherwise assume the identity of another player.

Same goes for recruiting scams, a recruiter is a something not a someone.

The only something that you are not allowed to impersonate is an official representive of CCP, be that Dev, GM, ISD, etc.

nutbar
Caldari
DYNAMIC INTERVENTION
ORPHANS OF EVE
Posted - 2008.08.14 05:00:00 - [117]
 

I think what happened should be perfectly "legal" in EVE. Even if there is some impersonation rule that's been in effect since 2004, lets be honest - how far does this go.

All those CNR scams you see which are really just normal Ravens... people are making Ravens impersonate CNRs - should those who fall victim to those scams be allowed to petition them and win?

Even if you said you were Chribba (and used the proper spelling), it should be the players responsibility to double check for themselves. Nobody *MADE* them give the isk out. What if the person make a spelling error when handing out the ISK? Could they petition for it back? I doubt CCP would say "oh, well yes you gave it to the wrong person by accident so we'll just give it back to you...". If someone gave you $20 and then came back with the cops and said "oh, I thought you were someone else; give me my $20 back", how would the cops proceed? Even if there were financial records to show that person gave the money, how do they know that they should have any right to take it back?

Simply put - if CCP doesn't outright ban *all* scams, then they can't start picking what scams are and aren't legal (so long as they aren't exploits of the game mechanics of course). You simply used characters that resemble other characters - I see nothing wrong with that... I bet there are TONS of other players in EVE who are doing the same thing - only difference is they might not have pulled off a scam of the same magnitude. Only reason you are getting so much attention is the isk involved most likely, and I think the GM made the wrong decision, and any bs that other CCP officials may give you saying you still violated the EULA I think should be re-examined.

As well, if the EULA truly marks *this* type of scam as an EULA violation, there should be a *whoooooole* lot of petitions started by all sorts of people claiming similar EULA violations for scams they fell victim to (and they should be awarded the win stick).

Matalino
Posted - 2008.08.14 05:12:00 - [118]
 

Edited by: Matalino on 14/08/2008 05:14:15
Originally by: nutbar
All those CNR scams you see which are really just normal Ravens... people are making Ravens impersonate CNRs - should those who fall victim to those scams be allowed to petition them and win?
Non-specific substitution is permitted.

You are not trying to make people believe that you are selling them the CNR, your are trying to get them to believe that is a CNR.

The OP's mistake was try to get someone to believe that he is the one and only Chribba. Had he simply tried to make his victim believe that he was an upstanding and trusted mediator, he would not have had any problems with the GM's.

The only generic role that you are not allowed to impersonate is that of CCP representive. Otherwise, to violate the anti-impersonation clause in the EULA, you're going to need to impersonate someone specific, be it a specific person or a specific corp.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.08.14 05:30:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: EVECitizen19821743


3. The dictionary definition of impersonate is:

'to assume the character or appearance of; pretend to be'

Now given that my name was spelt differently and my character portrait was different. Any person with half a brain cell would have seen that I wasn't CHRIBBA. I never said in chat that I was CHRIBBA,. I just told the buyer that I was taking care of the sale.

EVECitizen


Looked your in game portrait. It is very similar to the real Chribba portrait, his is a but darker, bu you have made it as similar as possible.

So for the dictionari definition you use you were impersonating him.

Sral TBear
Shipwreck cove
Posted - 2008.08.14 06:08:00 - [120]
 

the name thing....dont care, the name wasent taken, you can use it...se no problem..

If you in chats, talks etc never SAID!! you were him, i actualy dont se you have done anything wrong...no one can blame you that someone takes you for being him just on the name

Again if you never said you were him, and the dude just made the deal because of your name...sorry, you should not be punished any way...

TBear YARRRR!!


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