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blankseplocked HOW TO : fitting any ship with any player skills for any purpose
 
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.08.12 23:23:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 25/10/2008 17:04:02

Since an overwhelming number of threads in this entire forum seems to be about "how to fit ship XYZ" even if they already have EFT available, let's have a quick crash course about how exactly to THINK the fit of any ship.

Prerequisites ?
a) latest version of EFT with your character skills loaded and implants you have (or plan to have) plugged in
or b) up-to-date SiSi skills and access to it
or c) ability to use "showinfo", notepad and a calculator
Either of these three will do fine, but for simplicity's sake let's just say you go with option A.
___

HOW TO FIT YOUR SHIP

1. First you have to decide WHAT the purpose of your ship will be.

Will it be a tackler ? What kind of tackler, fast or sturdy ? Will it be a mission boat ? Will it be a bait ship ? Will it be a solo PvP ship ? Will it be a gang PvP ship ? Will it be a fleet ship ?
Bottom line, what exactly do you expect this ship to be good at ?
Most people seem to completely skip this VERY IMPORTANT step both when coming up with some fittings OR when asking for advice on setups.
The reason why this is a critical mistake is that in each case, the fit can change RADICALLY.

2. What modules/rigs to start with ?

Obviously, those you need to acheive your purpose.
Always start by MAXIMIZING the intended purpose, ignoring fiting requirements or anything else. You will scale down back lately.

Tackler ? Pick between AB or MWD, add a web or even two, a scrambler or disruptor, maybe two, whatever.
Bait ship ? Maximize effective hitpoints first. Extenders, plates, extender rigs, trimark rigs, resistances, damage control.
Solo/gank PvP ship ? Maximize DPS output first. Largest weapons of desired class, most damaging ammo, multiple damage mods.
Gang support ? Maximize whatever things you bring to the mix... be it repair power, Ewar abilities or gang boosting effects.
Safe mission boat ? Maximize tank power first. Booster/repper, resists, capacitor enhancing mods/rigs galore.
Gank mission boat ? Maximize DPS of long-range weapon system, or, in extreme cases, fit short-range weapon systems with plenty of range-enhancing mods.

3. Filling up remaining slots.

Now, try to maximize whatever things are of secondary importance.
Again, DISREGARD fiting issues, for now.

If it's a PvP boat, try to maximize EHP or speed next.
If it's a PvE boat, try to maximize whatever you neglected before (DPS or tank).

4. It won't fit !!!

First try if it would fit with slot 6 implants. You get to pick between up to 5% CPU or up to 5% PG.
Most people ignore them, even if they're only missing, say, 2.9% CPU or somesuch and they could easily get away with a 3% CPU implant.
Still doesn't fit ?

Decide what's LEAST important to you on the fit. Try to downsize weapons (if possible).
Try to fit named T1 gear instead of T2 or T1 gear (they usually have lower fiting requirements).
Take out a plate/extender. Fit only one instead of two reppers. Fit a smaller shield booster.
Still doesn't fit ?

If it's cpu you're still having issues with, you have no choice : one lowslot has to go, and a co-processor must come in.
If you still can't fit with one co-proc, try to rethink the entire concept, you may be on the completely wrong track, or your skills are completely inadequate.
If it's PG you have problem with, you can go either with an ACR rig, or use one lowslot grid mod (MAPC for frigs/dessy, power diagnostic or reactor control for larger boats, depending how much more you need).

See if you now have some leftover CPU/grid to upsize something you downsized before.
See if you can switch slot6 implant around, or with something else entirely.

5. Hooray, it finally fits. Now what ?

NOW, you can come in here, post your setup, post what you INTENDED it for, specify your (relevant) skill levels, and ask for feedback on how you could improve upon it.
Or just fly it, see how it handles.

Boz Well
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.08.12 23:28:00 - [2]
 

Quote:
Obviously I understand that akita is a stupid tard/troll

I was hoping I would bump into someone intelligent and who would interpret a question in a smart way

OK Let me put it like this, I have all the necessary support skills, energy use, armor compensation, naviagtion, capital ship etc. how do I fit my Raven?

Car Wars
Mortis Angelus
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.08.12 23:35:00 - [3]
 

Dont forget the most important: check the ships setup sticky.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.08.12 23:42:00 - [4]
 

Yeah, Boz Well, that "what skills do I need for a carrier" thread was priceless Laughing

Boz Well
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.08.12 23:54:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Yeah, Boz Well, that "what skills do I need for a carrier" thread was priceless Laughing



I've been waiting for a long, informative post to re-use that in. Razz

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.08.13 02:40:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 13/08/2008 02:42:42

Eh, it can be as informative as it could possibly be, it will still slip off the front few pages by the time I wake up.
Not before at least a couple of flames Soon™ anyway Twisted Evil

JUST for kicks, I wonder how long until somebody snaps and codes a self-designing-setup EFT variant...
I mean, it's not THAT hard, all you need is a couple of basic design rules and user choices, then it can even resort to brute-forcing the best setup given those parameters (and maybe even within a certain pricetag).

Ash Bringer
Posted - 2008.08.13 06:15:00 - [7]
 

wtb self fitting eft.

good idea :) I was always a fan of last slot in .... in... what was the ship fiter before EFT ?


Atsuko Ratu
Caldari
Quafe Industries
Posted - 2008.08.13 06:17:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 13/08/2008 06:17:22
Would have been a nice thread, but I think it is spelled "fitting", not "fiting" Cool

It was bugging me Confused

Originally by: Ash Bringer
wtb self fitting eft.
good idea :) I was always a fan of last slot in .... in... what was the ship fiter before EFT ?



Easy fit? I think was the name

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.08.13 06:19:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Atsuko Ratu
Would have been a nice thread, but I think it is spelled "fitting", not "fiting" Cool

Bad habit from the word-filter censoring " fittable ".

Disco Flint
The Flaming Sideburn's
Posted - 2008.08.13 06:43:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Disco Flint on 13/08/2008 06:43:15
Originally by: Atsuko Ratu
Edited by: Atsuko Ratu on 13/08/2008 06:17:22
Would have been a nice thread, but I think it is spelled "fitting", not "fiting" Cool

It was bugging me Confused

Originally by: Ash Bringer
wtb self fitting eft.
good idea :) I was always a fan of last slot in .... in... what was the ship fiter before EFT ?



Easy fit? I think was the name


I EQUIPPED MY RAVEN USING THE FOLLOWING:

QuickFit. :)

Also it's important to say that your ship will never be able to do it all. You can't have a PvE boat that can also "fend off pirates". And don't mix and match weapon types to cover all ranges, it's so much more effective to have a single optimal fighting distance and stick to that.
So decide what you want to do with the ship, fit accordingly and then use it in the role you intended for it. Fittings that are designed for a multitude of tasks will only fail at all tasks.

Verx Interis
Amarr
SkyNet.
Posted - 2008.08.13 07:38:00 - [11]
 

I fully endorse this thread

Very good explanation of how to fit a ship.

Horchan
Gallente
Posted - 2008.08.13 10:02:00 - [12]
 

If only this could be beaten into the brains of all the people who come here asking about fittings for a ship...

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.08.13 10:55:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Horchan
If only this could be beaten into the brains of all the people who come here asking about fittings for a ship...

Link in sig, send people over here, etc Laughing

BiggestT
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2008.08.13 10:59:00 - [14]
 

Well laid out and informative.
Good post

Kulmid
Paragon Fury
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2008.08.13 20:14:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Kulmid on 13/08/2008 20:14:12
if only the ignorant people who make posts like that cared about anything that anyone posts in any thread other than the one they created...


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.08.16 15:24:00 - [16]
 

Let's have one example, one of the most "asked for" fits in this entire forum... THE L4 MISSION RAVEN.

So, we already have our primary goal... namely, "mission-running".

Now, what to pick... safe boat or gank boat ?
Considering the fact torps have a rather short range, torpedo "full gank" Raven fits are really for expert pilots, who should have no trouble finding out the perfect fit for their taste, so for reasons that should be quite obvious, you (the one asking for a Raven fit) should fit CRUISE missile launchers.
Which cruise missile launchers ? Well, obviously, the best you can use and afford... most likely in your case though, either Arbalest or (if a bit richer than you should be) Caldari Navy cruise launchers. If you can use T2, great, put those on, what are you waiting for ? Cheap and damned effective, even if a bit nastier on the fit.

Which leaves you with the only other choice... really, really safe boat, or "as ganky as possible" ?
If you have a really crappy internet connection, system you'e in suffers from heavy lag or if your wife and/or kids bother you every couple of minutes, then you probably want to go with the "really, really safe fit". This means loading up the best perma-tank possible.
Now, let me tell you something for a second... OTHER than the fact you have no bussiness even trying to run L4s under those circumstances, if you do fly the Raven like that, just give it up, sell it, and fly a damned Drake instead. You're not going to get much performance out of the Raven anyway, and Drake is much safer, so just don't. Fly L3s instead, find a lagless system, lock the damn door and say you need some quiet time, I don't care. Just DO NOT ATTEMPT TO PERMATANK A RAVEN DAMMIT !
So... ahem... where were we... right... so you go for a decent mix of gank and tank, right ? Right.
This means, out of the blue, 3 ballistic control units. Just put'em there already and don't squirm.

Now.. go with passive or active tank ? Hmm.. tough one.. NOT !
OF COURSE you go with an active tank on a Raven, you have a crapload of capacitor reserves, you have no resists bonus, your shield recharge time is long as hell.
Automatically, this means shield booster plus shield boost amplifier, no question there. Start with an XL booster first, if you just can't make the fit, you'll downgrade to large later, but for now, just use the XL. Amp, I doubt you can use T2, so just put a bland base T1 on.

Now, you need some resists. You're going to need at least three, or else even the cruiser NPCs will give you trouble.
What kind of harneners ? Well, mission-specific, again "of course". You DON'T use 3 invuls, that's just dumb. Not even if this was PvP, even there you'd probably go EM, thermal, invul... or at worst em, invul, invul. Just research your mission enemy and fit the appropriate hardeners.

As for rigs... IF you fit any, again, no question... capacitor control circuits (if you want to go cheap) or semiconductor memory cells (twice the price, less of a peak recharge, but larger reserves).
I doubt you will ever need an ancillary courent router, but you never know.

So... what's left ?
2 lows, 1 mid, 2 highs (2 turret slots).
This is where it actually DOES start to get tricky.
Adding a 4th BCU won't do you much good, so you probably want to go with either dual power diagnostic (see, I told you, no reason for ACR rigs) or diagnostic + damage control. Heck, you could probably go with diagnostic+coproc if you have CPU issues. Either way, don't bother with CPR/CFC, you don't go for permatank anyway, and you want the most shield out of your existing capacitor, both of which screw with.
Highs, either tractor/salvage, or, if you're crazy, add some guns... not that it would do much good, but meh. Or drone control links, that's ok.
Last mid ? EITHER a cap injector (whatever still fits, and aren't you glad you added those PDUs now?) or a fourth hardener, maybe even a second SBAmp.

So, there you go.

Dr Karsun
Gallente
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
Posted - 2008.11.03 23:09:00 - [17]
 

Dominix tank fit? I'm running l4's on this fit, seems pretty good, plus not requiring that many sp's as it seems at first. I guess it's more or less what a 5m sp char can do easily (not counting learning skills).

Rigs:
Capacitor Control Circut x2
Auxiliary Nano Pump

Low:
Large Armor Repairer II x2
2x T2 armor hardener 1
2x T2 armor hardener 2 (or any other configuration of 4 hardeners suitable for the mission you'r running).
DC II (a must-have for all ships I suppose).

Med:
Depending on the mission, usually best is All cap rechargers II, if not, fit one AB t1 or t2 if you can, I'm running on a t2 100mn and the rest are rechargers, unless I fit a smartbomb. If I fit a smarbomb, I don't use any ab, full set of Cap Rechargers t2

High:
Now this is very important, because we start to run low on powergrid soon.
2x heavy diminishing power system drain. It gives almost as much energy as a t2 nosferatu for a cost of 300 powergrid les on each.
1x large smartbomb of your choice or a s/m/l turret. I suggest s, it's not for damage' it's for making aggro on you, not drones. IF you don't fit a bomb but a small fun, you SHOULD be able to fit 2x heavy nosferatu t2 instead of those heavy diminishing ones.
1x drone link augmentor (essential)
And now we'r almost out of powergrid AND cpu, so to make life a bit easier, I suggest 1x salvager and 1x small tractor beam. It's useful to salvage bs's during missions (not even loot, just salvagge, although a big cargo bay of 600 makes it possible to loot a lot of ships up to bs). That protects you from ninja salvagers, they are far too irritating and you can't do nothing against them.

As to DPS - I know, I know, seems there is no DPS there! That's not true. Traiing t2 med drones of all races takes only a few days. Now that you've got it, you also use heavy drones, t1's aren't that long to train, if you want to spend one month you make heavy t2's of all races (it's like 4-5 days differance if you already got all med t2's already to train from one version of med t2 to heavy t2 if you got the main heavy drone interfacing skill trained to 5).

This ship may not be the -fastest- mission running ship, BUT:
1. It can run 2x large armor rep. t2 at any given time if you have those nos active on any other ship (cruiser and up are useful, yes nos WORKS on npc's) plus it can run all the active hards and dc AND it can have the smartbomb blasting all the time to get rid of all frigates so you'r drones won't have to bother, I won't even mention having a running salvager AND tractor all the time. And you'r cap will stay on around 30-50% depending on how many sp you put into it.

You can even tank angel extravaganza l4 bonus room just standing in one place if you put the nos t2's on.

Now - I know I'll get flamed for this fit as beeing ineficient, but for solo mission running it's perfect. It regenerates almost 2k armor hp per ~12 second (depending on repair level skill), plus if you configure your armor hards right, you won't even need to turn the second repairer on during most missions.

So, that's about it. Comments? I know, I'll get comments that I'm a noob. But this fit costs so few sp that the cost it self makes it good compared to the 10m, or 15m sp fits you could get. Yeah, they would be more efficient, you wouldn't even need two repairers, but one factional, sure. But this ship costs around 150m to buy with insurance, plus when you lose it, you lose around 80m. that's around half. That's a mission running ship, it can take 30-40m out of better missions easily with the salvage. Plus, you will need a destroyer later for salvage, but that's normal.

Thank you,
Over'n'out.

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2008.11.03 23:15:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 03/11/2008 23:15:58
How to fit a PvP ship, a short and simple guide:

1) Fit appropriate-size T2 MWD.

2) Fit the largest T2 guns possible (close range or long range, depending on your purpose).

3) Fit 3x T2 damage mods (assuming 3x low slots, if not, fit as many as you can).

4) Fit grid/cap/CPU mods as necessary to make everything fit and run for as long as you need.

5) Fit T2 passive buffer tank (shield is best) and 24km warp disruptor if short range, range/tracking mods if long range.

6) Collect killmails.

Strill
Posted - 2008.11.03 23:30:00 - [19]
 

wouldn't a damage control be a reasonable idea for a mission raven?

Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
Posted - 2008.11.04 04:36:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Strill
wouldn't a damage control be a reasonable idea for a mission raven?


While a DC adds to the shield resists it does not add much and fitting a BCU, CPR (despite penalty), or cap flux coil would usually be a better choice. Typically you would want to maximize your shield tank and never end up in structure, easily done for most level 4's. With tackling NPC's now being so easy to spot you'll rarely find yourself in a position where the added resists to armor or structure will help as you'll be long gone by then.

Perhaps more importantly it is possible to perma-tank almost all level fours with t2 kit alone without the use of a DC. In which case that lo-slot would certainly have better uses.


 

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