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Tamon Edom
Khanid Guard
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.08.12 21:20:00 - [541]
 

Originally by: Chappers2

take a real life example, how ever many police men in the world and all the cctv and other security stuff people still get murdered, you can't just take the fear away of being ganked or everybody will be AFK mining.


Well sure people get murdered. And when they get caught, they frequently get executed (especially in Texas), or spend the rest of their life in a small concrete box.

Well, since there isn't any means to execute someone who's effectively immortal, and no prisons, there isn't ANY possible repercussion to criminal activity short of the fantastic coordination of the DED. And even that's never been enough to STOP it.

But even when there are police crackdowns, you don't hear proffesional assasins, extortionists, muggers or thieves getting up on a soap box complaining because they cops are making it more difficult to commit crimes. They hide out, wait till the heat is off, and look for new and more inventive ways to circumvent the law.

There are plenty of ways to FORCE combat on people. All you have to do is be willing to pay the price.

And if you don't have the stones to handle that, you shouldn't be pretending you are a hard core PvPer.

In short: people should Quit whining, and deal with it like a real criminal.

Ein Spiegel
Minmatar
Fly-by-Night Industries LLC PTY LTD
Posted - 2008.08.12 23:24:00 - [542]
 

Like the changes. Although the sec standing moderating the sec hit makes no sense to me, nor the modified sec hit depending on security space.

A criminal act is a criminal act, no matter who does it. Differentiating based on the sec status of the criminal is akin to saying that some people can be "above" the law because of their sterling reputation. Likewise, if a law obtains in a jurisdiction, it applies equally in all areas of that jurisdiction. This change also implies that a murder at the country club is far more horrendous than a murder in the bar by the docks. While this may seem more realistic to the cynical among us, I don't see why we should make Eden as inherently unjust as reality.

On the topic of Concord... this has nothing to do with game balance. Concord, from its inception, is unbalanced. It is the force that cannot be stopped (except for plot/world story events); their ships should be able to instantly nuke any ship a capsuleer can field. To avoid Concord's ordained destruction of your ship was deemed an exploit; why should you cry that now they do their job faster? You're going to be destroyed. CCP is just correcting Concord's capabilities to match what the mission profile Concord has always had.

Insurance changes make sense to me, too... if you are shot by a police officer while committing a crime, you can bet your insurance adjuster will deny the claim for your life insurance. It's a standard clause.

Also, if you want to point the finger... I'm guessing that Jihadswarm's campaign brought this on. They illustrated, through their operations, a flaw in the security paradigm CCP had set up. Way to go for Goonfleet, making CCP make the game better. (Or at least changed in ways that could be better.)

I'm still conflicted... I both mine and engage in piracy. I don't know if it's good or bad.

Angry Cheeto
Posted - 2008.08.13 00:54:00 - [543]
 

Originally by: Sirius Problem
The problem many of you seem to have is that you think you should have the option to be 100% free from the risk of PvP. Sorry, this is Eve. A basic foundation of the game is that there is no such thing as 100% risk-free space.
And the devs wrote the game just for you eh? BWAHAHA! I feel sorry for you. I really do. It must be hard on you being wrong in almost every thing you say. The problem is that you think you have the right to force your play style on others. WRONG! So incredibly wrong it boggles the mind. Now don't get me wrong. I like a good fight as much as the next guy but I'd never go after some empire noob. That's not only stupid it's lame and boring. Fighting opponents that fight back now that's where the game is! Strap on a pair and head to low/null sec and leave the empire guys to run their missions. The real men don't care what's happening in empire anyway. If anything CCP is trying to get you noob ganking ****s to stop acting like asshats and ruining thier income. GOOD FOR THEM! I haven't been to empire in years so this patch means squat to me but I applaud CCP for the changes. You want to shoot people? Bring your yapping piwate crap out here and get a taste. Twisted Evil

Kurann
Tribe of One
Tribal Conclave
Posted - 2008.08.13 02:09:00 - [544]
 

Originally by: Angry Cheeto
Originally by: Sirius Problem
The problem many of you seem to have is that you think you should have the option to be 100% free from the risk of PvP. Sorry, this is Eve. A basic foundation of the game is that there is no such thing as 100% risk-free space.
And the devs wrote the game just for you eh? BWAHAHA! I feel sorry for you. I really do. It must be hard on you being wrong in almost every thing you say. The problem is that you think you have the right to force your play style on others. WRONG! So incredibly wrong it boggles the mind. Now don't get me wrong. I like a good fight as much as the next guy but I'd never go after some empire noob. That's not only stupid it's lame and boring. Fighting opponents that fight back now that's where the game is! Strap on a pair and head to low/null sec and leave the empire guys to run their missions. The real men don't care what's happening in empire anyway. If anything CCP is trying to get you noob ganking ****s to stop acting like asshats and ruining thier income. GOOD FOR THEM! I haven't been to empire in years so this patch means squat to me but I applaud CCP for the changes. You want to shoot people? Bring your yapping piwate crap out here and get a taste. Twisted Evil


this coming from a 2 day old alt?
show your face, or you will be ignored...
You haven't been to empire in years, great, i havn't been to empire in about a year and a half, short of shuttle/pod flying during a move. If I try, i get pew pew'd by the police. I don't high sec gank, but with the lack of targets in low sec, i don't see and alternative, high sec suicide ganks will lessen when people can actually pirate in low sec. If CCP gives bears incentives to come to low sec, I, along with many others, will have no problem with it, and i doubt you will hear a single pirate whine when that patch comes. Of course, every bear and bear alt will scream to high heaven, but y'know what? too f'n bad. It's not written for me (or pvpers), but it shouldn't be written specifically for you (or bears) too.

EvE should be a harsh would, but if CCP keeps releasing hello kitty online patches, they have lost my $30 a month, and probably a lot more, too.

Dronnis
Posted - 2008.08.13 03:52:00 - [545]
 

CCP, your whole game is a ganking fest. You invent it, dream it and encourge it. The name of this game should be called jerks and fools who put up with it.

Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Posted - 2008.08.13 05:17:00 - [546]
 

Originally by: CCP Fear
.. But we want to discourage people to gank for giggles. It's just not sporting.


You created game that attracts these lunatics,mentally unstable, griefers,scum of the internets etc. people and then you wonder why "for giggles" killing happens? Don't expect us to just be happy about this after you lured us to this game via promises of carebear tears. Evil or Very Mad

Kurann
Tribe of One
Tribal Conclave
Posted - 2008.08.13 05:37:00 - [547]
 

Originally by: Kuolematon
Originally by: CCP Fear
.. But we want to discourage people to gank for giggles. It's just not sporting.


You created game that attracts these lunatics,mentally unstable, griefers,scum of the internets etc. people and then you wonder why "for giggles" killing happens? Don't expect us to just be happy about this after you lured us to this game via promises of carebear tears. Evil or Very Mad


/signed

Shinigami
Gallente
Shinra
Posted - 2008.08.13 06:09:00 - [548]
 

Edited by: Shinigami on 13/08/2008 06:20:34
Completely Remove The Insurance System From Eve, And Cancel The Other Changes. Everybody Wins!

A level playing field, and equal risk for all. There is no need to single out and punish one group of players.

Sirius Problem
Darkness Inc.
Posted - 2008.08.13 12:53:00 - [549]
 

Edited by: Sirius Problem on 13/08/2008 12:55:39
Originally by: Angry Cheeto
And the devs wrote the game just for you eh? BWAHAHA!

No, the devs wrote a game with certain concepts as the foundation. 100% risk-free space is not part of that foundation. That is what attracted me to the game.

Quote:
I feel sorry for you. I really do.

Such a humanitarian. Too bad you're also a coward, too afraid to post with a main. Perhaps I killed you in low-sec? If so, it was not personal. I'm just playing a game.

Quote:
The problem is that you think you have the right to force your play style on others. WRONG! So incredibly wrong it boggles the mind.

I guess a simple mind is easily confused. What's wrong is that you and others believe that you should be immune to aspects of game mechanics that you just don't happen to like. Boo Hoo. You could "adapt", but you would rather wine. And why not? It seems to get the dev's attention. Not to worry. The bears will still die as pirates adapt, again.

Quote:
Strap on a pair and head to low/null sec

Ahh, the classic carebear line. Strap on a pair and post with your main. I've been in low-sec for a long time. Currently at -9.8, it's not easy to get out.

Quote:
I haven't been to empire in years

Oh.. I see now. So you're a 0.0 alliance muppet that thinks skill is flying around in 100+ ship blobs.

Sirius Problem
Darkness Inc.
Posted - 2008.08.13 12:54:00 - [550]
 

Originally by: Shinigami
Completely Remove The Insurance System From Eve

I have no problem with that idea.

Angry Cheeto
Posted - 2008.08.13 14:27:00 - [551]
 

Edited by: Angry Cheeto on 13/08/2008 14:28:59
A mean ol' piwate called me a bear now I can die lol'ing. Yeah I posted with an alt. It was actually an accident but does it bother you? I'm so terribly sorry I forgot to care... In fact I'm so terribly sorry that I'm gonna do it again Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

Sirius Problem
Darkness Inc.
Posted - 2008.08.13 18:06:00 - [552]
 

Originally by: Angry Cheeto
Edited by: Angry Cheeto on 13/08/2008 14:28:59
A mean ol' piwate called me a bear now I can die lol'ing. Yeah I posted with an alt. It was actually an accident but does it bother you? I'm so terribly sorry I forgot to care... In fact I'm so terribly sorry that I'm gonna do it again Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

Wit makes its own welcome, and levels all distinctions. No dignity, no learning, no force of character, can make any stand against good wit. -- RWE

I stand defeated. Rolling Eyes

Miyagi Sensei
Caldari
The Amesha Spentaz Irregulars
Posted - 2008.08.14 02:17:00 - [553]
 

As much as I think security needs to be improved at the gates, this could also affect another area of the game that needs to be addressed, the ability of concerned players to be able to kill macro-miners when we find them. Macro's have become a much bigger problem lately with as many as 40 or more in a single ice field at any time. They are there 23/7 and, as CCP is either unable or unwilling to stop them, some pilots have taken it upon themselves to do it for the good of the game and to stabilize the markets. The only tool available is the suicide gank.

If enhanced concord response time creates even greater security for these parasites, then they will simply expand as we will no longer be able to kill them before Concord arrives. If you must decrease response times in the entire system, can you offset this by giving us another way to help us get rid of these pests?

Galvatr0n
Gallente
Wrath of Fenris
Posted - 2008.08.14 02:22:00 - [554]
 

CCP, when will the full 2nd Life mods be intergrated into EVE?

Galvatr0n
Gallente
Wrath of Fenris
Posted - 2008.08.14 03:59:00 - [555]
 

Originally by: Miyagi Sensei
As much as I think security needs to be improved at the gates, this could also affect another area of the game that needs to be addressed, the ability of concerned players to be able to kill macro-miners when we find them. Macro's have become a much bigger problem lately with as many as 40 or more in a single ice field at any time. They are there 23/7 and, as CCP is either unable or unwilling to stop them, some pilots have taken it upon themselves to do it for the good of the game and to stabilize the markets. The only tool available is the suicide gank.

If enhanced concord response time creates even greater security for these parasites, then they will simply expand as we will no longer be able to kill them before Concord arrives. If you must decrease response times in the entire system, can you offset this by giving us another way to help us get rid of these pests?

/signed, sorry for the double post.

Bob Killan
Caldari
Dzark Asylum
Posted - 2008.08.14 09:43:00 - [556]
 

Originally by: Sirius Problem
Edited by: Sirius Problem on 13/08/2008 12:55:39
Originally by: Angry Cheeto
And the devs wrote the game just for you eh? BWAHAHA!

No, the devs wrote a game with certain concepts as the foundation. 100% risk-free space is not part of that foundation. That is what attracted me to the game.

Quote:
I feel sorry for you. I really do.

Such a humanitarian. Too bad you're also a coward, too afraid to post with a main. Perhaps I killed you in low-sec? If so, it was not personal. I'm just playing a game.

Quote:
The problem is that you think you have the right to force your play style on others. WRONG! So incredibly wrong it boggles the mind.

I guess a simple mind is easily confused. What's wrong is that you and others believe that you should be immune to aspects of game mechanics that you just don't happen to like. Boo Hoo. You could "adapt", but you would rather wine. And why not? It seems to get the dev's attention. Not to worry. The bears will still die as pirates adapt, again.

Quote:
Strap on a pair and head to low/null sec

Ahh, the classic carebear line. Strap on a pair and post with your main. I've been in low-sec for a long time. Currently at -9.8, it's not easy to get out.

Quote:
I haven't been to empire in years

Oh.. I see now. So you're a 0.0 alliance muppet that thinks skill is flying around in 100+ ship blobs.



Takes just slightly more skill to kill someone with hundered mates than it does to pick off an undefended empire noob, at least the guy against the blob knows how too pvp which wont save him.

All you pirates that want to prey on defenceless easy target should buy a copy of WOW go on a PvP server and Gank, WOW will love you for it and Eve will love you for it.

There are 1000 people whining all the time that there is no one to fight in low sec, well if all you lame pirates moved there and left high sec i'm sure there would be, but oh wait what happens when yo do go to Low sec for a fight that hard man pirate warp/cloaks/logs/docks or a combination of all. Get some balls yourself there are lots of target in low sec/0.0 unfortunately they wont be a sitting duck so you might actually have to risk some isk and show a bit of skill to have any chance

Bob Killan
Caldari
Dzark Asylum
Posted - 2008.08.14 10:00:00 - [557]
 

Originally by: Miyagi Sensei
As much as I think security needs to be improved at the gates, this could also affect another area of the game that needs to be addressed, the ability of concerned players to be able to kill macro-miners when we find them. Macro's have become a much bigger problem lately with as many as 40 or more in a single ice field at any time. They are there 23/7 and, as CCP is either unable or unwilling to stop them, some pilots have taken it upon themselves to do it for the good of the game and to stabilize the markets. The only tool available is the suicide gank.

If enhanced concord response time creates even greater security for these parasites, then they will simply expand as we will no longer be able to kill them before Concord arrives. If you must decrease response times in the entire system, can you offset this by giving us another way to help us get rid of these pests?


There is already a very powerful tool, its called "report", in fact its much better than Ganking after a gank the farm just needs to buy a new ship out of there massive isk pile, not much trouble, if you actually report them CCP will close the account if it is a macro/RMT.

Sahara Eternity
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2008.08.14 11:44:00 - [558]
 

Edited by: Sahara Eternity on 14/08/2008 11:52:04
Originally by: Kurann
and what exactly are we supposed to shoot in low sec? have you been there recently? there is no one but bored pirates there. Once in a while you will get some random noob, but thats about it.

As a career pirate (posting with my main...OMG?!?!?!?) i am spending most of my time sitting around waiting for that 1 in a million chance a noob will enter low sec.


I LOOOL'ed.
This are the true words of a PIRATE self intitulated PVP'er ... (this is only a simple example of ppl whining in here).

Shoot each other m8, at least ull get the taste of a REAL engagement, not sit 20 pll camping a gate hoping for a "noob" to enter "u're territory". Shooting helpless hulks or haulers isnt much of an achievement (in PVP) u know... Theyr only deffence is ... what ?

If pirating isn't such profitable then u guys shold look for a new carrer, don't u think ?
EVEry type of player has the right to have fun.

Cheers.

EDIT: And for thowse who say "we, pirates, are doing CCP work, getting read of macro miners" ... I also LOOOOOL'ed ! Nop, you are doing that becouse u like seeing defensless ships go boom. If u were doing CCP job of getting rid of macro miners then u shold get fired, u haven't done such a good job didn't ya ? Laughing

Par'Gellen
Gallente
Neon Cranium
Posted - 2008.08.14 12:27:00 - [559]
 

Originally by: Sahara Eternity
Edited by: Sahara Eternity on 14/08/2008 11:52:04
Originally by: Kurann
and what exactly are we supposed to shoot in low sec? have you been there recently? there is no one but bored pirates there. Once in a while you will get some random noob, but thats about it.

As a career pirate (posting with my main...OMG?!?!?!?) i am spending most of my time sitting around waiting for that 1 in a million chance a noob will enter low sec.


I LOOOL'ed.
This are the true words of a PIRATE self intitulated PVP'er ... (this is only a simple example of ppl whining in here).

Shoot each other m8, at least ull get the taste of a REAL engagement, not sit 20 pll camping a gate hoping for a "noob" to enter "u're territory". Shooting helpless hulks or haulers isnt much of an achievement (in PVP) u know... Theyr only deffence is ... what ?

If pirating isn't such profitable then u guys shold look for a new carrer, don't u think ?
EVEry type of player has the right to have fun.

Cheers.

EDIT: And for thowse who say "we, pirates, are doing CCP work, getting read of macro miners" ... I also LOOOOOL'ed ! Nop, you are doing that becouse u like seeing defensless ships go boom. If u were doing CCP job of getting rid of macro miners then u shold get fired, u haven't done such a good job didn't ya ? Laughing
100% spot on! Pirates complaining about lack of targets should shoot each other. Problem solved.

Oh wait... that means someone might shoot back. ugh

I've done the "pirate hunter" thing back when I was a younger more naive version of myself. It never ceased to amaze me how fast the pirate elite would dock when someone showed up in something with guns. To bad you can't bribe Scotty to jettison them Laughing

Sahara Eternity
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2008.08.14 12:29:00 - [560]
 

Originally by: Reikku
How, exactly, is afk/macro-mining in 0.5 punished after this patch? Where is the risk, exactly?

List of things afk-miners had to fear up until now:

1) suicide-gankers

List of things afk-miners will have to fear after this patch:

-



What is the difference between a RL person mining and an "AFK-miner"? HOW CAN YOU TELL THE DIFFERENCE? Do you speak with him in local/private of HOW can you tell who is AFK and who is not?

If you know the answers to theese questions perhaps CCP will find them useful. Untill then there is NO GUARANTEED way to diferenceiate a AFK to a non-AFK miner.

The hole ideea behind this is that bouth AFK and non AFK miners are affected by pirating. There is NO excuse for pirating (spaire me with "we are doing the community a favor", you are doing ureself a favor in ISK or fun seeing others in tears - oh to the Goon guy that likes teers: if u like tears so much then take a hammer and hit ure hand or something, ull se a lot of tears Wink)

Nautsyn Thome
Minmatar
Shark Investments
Posted - 2008.08.14 14:01:00 - [561]
 

Edited by: Nautsyn Thome on 14/08/2008 14:02:44
Originally by: Sahara Eternity
Originally by: Reikku
How, exactly, is afk/macro-mining in 0.5 punished after this patch? Where is the risk, exactly?

List of things afk-miners had to fear up until now:

1) suicide-gankers

List of things afk-miners will have to fear after this patch:

-



What is the difference between a RL person mining and an "AFK-miner"? HOW CAN YOU TELL THE DIFFERENCE? Do you speak with him in local/private of HOW can you tell who is AFK and who is not?

If you know the answers to theese questions perhaps CCP will find them useful. Untill then there is NO GUARANTEED way to diferenceiate a AFK to a non-AFK miner.

The hole ideea behind this is that bouth AFK and non AFK miners are affected by pirating. There is NO excuse for pirating (spaire me with "we are doing the community a favor", you are doing ureself a favor in ISK or fun seeing others in tears - oh to the Goon guy that likes teers: if u like tears so much then take a hammer and hit ure hand or something, ull se a lot of tears Wink)



this counts for makro's:

-all in NPC Corp
-cluster formation
-all pilots same age
-all pilots reject convo and auto block
-all pilots are 23h a day online
-all pilots go on and off at the same time
-very often in ice belts
-senseless names

I dont want you to reply me now, that this is no proof. I dont need a proof. My ballz are telling me its right what im doing!

Oh and here is some calculation:

single kill fitting:
Typhoon: 58 Mio
Fitting: 1 Mio
Insurance: 22,5 Mio
Payout: 75 Mio
Difference: -6,5 Mio

~ sec hit: -0.3

Loot from one Mackinaw:
1-2 Ice Harvester: ~6 Mio

wow, i think im getting rich...

Sure, you can do it in a smartbomb phoon, and take out 6 in one run. but you aint doing it long if you hit the pods too...then you have to live in low sec for some time.

Sirius Problem
Darkness Inc.
Posted - 2008.08.14 15:13:00 - [562]
 

Originally by: Bob Killan
There are 1000 people whining all the time that there is no one to fight in low sec, well if all you lame pirates moved there and left high sec

Newsflash -- Pirates (-5 and lower) don't live in hi-sec.

Quote:
oh wait what happens when yo do go to Low sec for a fight that hard man pirate warp/cloaks/logs/docks or a combination of all

mmm yeah. Those are carebear tactics.

Quote:
Get some balls yourself there are lots of target in low sec unfortunately they wont be a sitting duck so you might actually have to risk some isk and show a bit of skill to have any chance

Rolling Eyes Spoken like the hi-sec mission running bear that you are. Clueless and quite possibly illiterate. Hint: Once you hit -5 you can't be in hi-sec. So guess where I live?


Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.08.14 21:08:00 - [563]
 

Oh the emo high sec gank tears in here taste sooooo good. Please, whine some more. Laughing

Miyagi Sensei
Caldari
The Amesha Spentaz Irregulars
Posted - 2008.08.14 21:19:00 - [564]
 

Originally by: Bob Killan
Originally by: Miyagi Sensei
As much as I think security needs to be improved at the gates, this could also affect another area of the game that needs to be addressed, the ability of concerned players to be able to kill macro-miners when we find them. Macro's have become a much bigger problem lately with as many as 40 or more in a single ice field at any time. They are there 23/7 and, as CCP is either unable or unwilling to stop them, some pilots have taken it upon themselves to do it for the good of the game and to stabilize the markets. The only tool available is the suicide gank.

If enhanced concord response time creates even greater security for these parasites, then they will simply expand as we will no longer be able to kill them before Concord arrives. If you must decrease response times in the entire system, can you offset this by giving us another way to help us get rid of these pests?


There is already a very powerful tool, its called "report", in fact its much better than Ganking after a gank the farm just needs to buy a new ship out of there massive isk pile, not much trouble, if you actually report them CCP will close the account if it is a macro/RMT.


I hope you're not serious when you say this.... CCP does absolutely nothing about report of macros.. How do I know this you might want to ask. The answer is simple. I have been reporting macros for some time now and it's about as valuable as reporting isk spammers in NPC corp chat. They do not respond. They do not cancel the accounts and the same macro miners I reported months and weeks ago are still mining 23/7. Macro's have been a problem since I started playing this game but when discussing solutions, let's at least try to keep it real. Filing reports is kind of like trying to teach a pig to sing...

Killing a macro once may not make a difference but killing them day in and day out will remove the profit. It won't rid eve of them but it might cut down a bit on the macros in my system.

Surrah
Supra Tenetur
Posted - 2008.08.15 02:58:00 - [565]
 

I can't see anything wrong with these changes. I've been on both sides of the gank. In a group of 5 destroyers I've killed hulks, making 10's of millions in profits even without insurance payouts. Then we waited 20 minutes and did it again. Worse than that we did it because we were bored, not for the money. I've been ganked as well for what I'm assuming is similar reasons. No hard feelings, it was just part of the game.

It does make since though that as you get into space with a higher sec status that the penalties and responses get stiffer. And the insurance not paying out for CONCORD action, well that makes since too. Why would an insurance agency want to pay for acts of war or illegal activity. None do.

What I would like to see however, is a combatable CONCORD. I don't see why they have to be invincible. I'd like to see a system where in a system of a certain sec status, a limited amount of CONCORD ships were available to respond to ALL incidents in the system (like a real police force). Each system would have a cap on how many ships can be available, and as they are destroyed the get replenished over time, or through player taxes and donations, or both.

You could take that thought and then use it to change any given system's sec rating. If say a 0.5 is held down to ship level standing of 0.4 for 5 days in a row, it would become a 0.4 and cap out there. To counter that, if a neighboring system has extra reinforcements the can count toward replenishing this system and after 5 days raising its sec status up to its original level, or even higher.

Lets stretch this a little further, and add a CONCORD upgrade to any given alliance's outpost. The alliance pays money to get a CONCORD office, and the sec status of that system is now 0.1. Lets say they dontate millions of isk, enough so that CONCORD can install gate turrets... boom 0.2. Then lets say they allocate some of their station taxes to the CONCORD office, and continue donating millions or even Billions of isk; eventually they will get 0.3 and 0.4, and before long CONCORD can start deploying some ships and responding to incidents and boom, 0.5 and its a player owned hi sec. Keep on funding and you could have a player owned 1.0!

Well there is a win button... Not really. You can still declare war and CONCORD won't interfere. Just change it so that the empires keep Cyno Jammers instead of having a high sec lockout on Cynos. That will allow player highsec to be functional in accordance to the wishes of the owners while mirroring the function of empire high sec.

This whole system will allow a feasible functional system allowing players to really run the sandbox. If you don't like Caldari, invade and spend and invade until you take it down to a 0.4. Then the market crashes. If you DO like Caldari, DEFEND Caldari space when it is being attacked. If someone is attacking CONCORD, or Caldari Navy they will be flagged and attackable. It makes perfect since.

You can expound upon this by adding control points like in, OMG, factional warfare! Why have limits really? Alliance owned Jita anyone? Sure, there would need to be some safety measures built in, but that shouldn't be too hard. Can you imagine the CONCORD/Navy resources in Jita with all those taxes, or station rents!!! You can add in a level difference cap as well, say no neighboring systems can be more than 0.3 apart. That would eliminate the ability to attack and control a single system (Like Jita) with unlimited reign as you'd have to take all of its neighbors down with it. That would broaden the front making attacking and defending harder.

You want grit, danger to AFK playing? Here it is! You're AFK mining in a 0.5. Due to the penalties Ganking is rare and unlikely in your turd of a ship. But while you aren't paying attention a band of pirates come in and kill all 20 stationed CONCORD ships, and there is no one to save your inattentive ass! 10 minutes later reinforcements arrive and its CONCORDONKKEN for the pirates

Freighter Meh
Posted - 2008.08.15 04:36:00 - [566]
 

meh

Kurann
Tribe of One
Tribal Conclave
Posted - 2008.08.15 09:11:00 - [567]
 

Edited by: Kurann on 15/08/2008 09:14:55
Originally by: Sahara Eternity
Edited by: Sahara Eternity on 14/08/2008 11:52:04
Originally by: Kurann
and what exactly are we supposed to shoot in low sec? have you been there recently? there is no one but bored pirates there. Once in a while you will get some random noob, but thats about it.

As a career pirate (posting with my main...OMG?!?!?!?) i am spending most of my time sitting around waiting for that 1 in a million chance a noob will enter low sec.


I LOOOL'ed.
This are the true words of a PIRATE self intitulated PVP'er ... (this is only a simple example of ppl whining in here).

Shoot each other m8, at least ull get the taste of a REAL engagement, not sit 20 pll camping a gate hoping for a "noob" to enter "u're territory". Shooting helpless hulks or haulers isnt much of an achievement (in PVP) u know... Theyr only deffence is ... what ?

If pirating isn't such profitable then u guys shold look for a new carrer, don't u think ?
EVEry type of player has the right to have fun.

Cheers.

EDIT: And for thowse who say "we, pirates, are doing CCP work, getting read of macro miners" ... I also LOOOOOL'ed ! Nop, you are doing that becouse u like seeing defensless ships go boom. If u were doing CCP job of getting rid of macro miners then u shold get fired, u haven't done such a good job didn't ya ? Laughing


alrighty then, so youre once again telling me to play my game, and leave you to yours...i went over this already

1) Pirates kill other pirates, i have been on both ends of this
2) Risk vs. Reward, answer me this:
What incentives do you have to come to low sec, where any >=-5 pirate lives?
The risk is obvious, pirates like myself.
Have you read a dev blog about repopulating low sec, giving you more rewards for coming down to my home? Or are you too young?

Pirate vs. Pirate Risk vs. Reward:
1) the possibility of your ship blowing up, but having an awesome fight
2) not many pirates have pricey faction mods for me to resell, for two reasons
a) when i go out, i expect to be anti-pied and get blobed and blown up, that is part of my life, and therefore don't fit expensive mods
b) having a low target environment means even if i am successful, theres not much of a payout from dropped mods, due to a, which means not having the iskes to purchase said faction mods

NPCer Risk vs. Reward:
1) faction mods to resell for iskes (hopefully)
2) npcers are usually tanked for that rat = resistance hole somewhere = dead npcer, fast = high isk payout for time in combat/risk
3) possibility of npcer calling corpmates/anti-pies when pirates show up, but there are usually far enough away that a victory is a high possibility
4) carebear tears & rage quits

now which one would you be more likely to hunt? pirates, or npcers?

exactly

i don't know how many times i have to say it, but the way i play the game is to kill npcers. that is my goal, not cause its my territory, as i don't claim any, not cause i fear a real fight, in fact i welcome it, but because the risk to reward for killing npcers, just for the tears, is worth any sec hit i take.

you don't like it? too bad, that is the way i play eve. and stop telling me to grow some balls, you are the ones hiding behind concord in high sec, and that i should kill other pirates, the tears just aren't there when you kill another pirate, and, in the end, THAT is what I'm hunting for.

and one more thing, i don't gatecamp, i have an empty corp that i am the only active person in, i have no friends in the system my stuff is in, i roam solo. gatecamp are too easy, i want a fight to collect your tears and frozen corpse. Also, high sec gankers also don't have the power to ban accounts, like CCP does, so what do they do to macro miners/haulers? create a sink for the money they are making, against the EULA, in ships and mods to make it less profitable, you are correct, they are still there, but at least they are doing something, not forum warrioring

Sethose Olderon
Gryphon Chancellery
Gryphon League
Posted - 2008.08.15 11:55:00 - [568]
 

Edited by: Sethose Olderon on 15/08/2008 11:58:58
A lot of good points have been made in this thread for the benefit of the Industrialists, (Don't call me a carebear, and I won't call you a Jarhead)however one good point hasn't.

One thing you Pirates should remember, if it weren't for the Industrialists, there wouldn't be any minerals, there wouldn't be any manufacturing, and you wouldn't have anything to fight with. You might take a moment to contemplate this, because it has serious repercussions if left to it's end. As it currently exists, it is much easier for Pirates to recover their losses than it is for Industrialists. Because of this, it makes it more difficult for Industrialists to turn a profit and stay in business, because they have to charge more for their products to cover their losses, and in turn that expense gets passed on to you, the PVPer who buys those products.

Eventually, either prices will become astronomical which most won't be able to afford, or the majority of the Industrialists will leave the game, and then you really won't have anyone left to shoot at. The game will turn into a PVP Arena with an NCP market. Fuh huh?

The possibility of loss, and some eventual PVP is fine, and its what makes Eve what it is. However, I think some Pirates are taking the concept to the extreme, and in the process, ruining the game for many people, and that shouldn't be allowed.

Moreover, those who wish to remove ALL PVP, well... thats just silly. I'm an Industrialist, and even I might quit at that point, because it would completely change the game. Part of the excitement is that you might acutally get caught in a "situation", its the suspense.

All in all, however, CPP has this right. Too many people are taking advantage of less defended and experienced player simply for "giggles" as they put it, and I am all for the change.

For those who have a problem with it, quit. I will be clapping as you leave. Wink

Originally by: Kurann
4) carebear tears & rage quits

This proves my point... By definition, thats griefing.

Par'Gellen
Gallente
Neon Cranium
Posted - 2008.08.15 12:20:00 - [569]
 

Edited by: Par''Gellen on 15/08/2008 12:20:25
Originally by: Sethose Olderon
Originally by: Kurann
4) carebear tears & rage quits

This proves my point... By definition, thats griefing.
I was just about to say exactly the same thing. And he wonders why they want to put CONCORD on his arse...

*sigh* Some people's kids... Rolling Eyes

Par'Gellen
Gallente
Neon Cranium
Posted - 2008.08.15 12:23:00 - [570]
 

Originally by: Surrah
More stuff than the forum would let me quote. Scroll up it's good stuff!
Now THAT would be awesome!


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