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blankseplocked [issue] Dictor bubbles
 
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Andreya
Red Federation
Posted - 2008.08.05 22:31:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Luckyduck
Originally by: Daveydweeb
long stuff


It's not about 1 dictor, it's about 8-10 doing the job of 30 support. People newer to this game don't seem to remember the day the frigate class actually did something in fleets more than zoom around like tards.


like tards?!? wow this is honestly the stupidest idea ive heard in a good few weeks.

first off THEY NERFED DICTORS! .. to the point where around 70-80% of the dedicated pilots stopped flying them!
cheap? not really? i can tellin gyou right f_ing now my implants arent cheap either.. you expect me to constantly die while trying to tackle people for you? or is it YOU kept dying by dictor bubbles cause you guys couldnt think of a productive counter against dictors (which nowadays with their speed nerf. is a nano thorax :S) .. or you engaged in a drake blob.

you have issues. dictor have received the shortest end of the stick next to arazus lately.


go back to high sec if you don twant to deal with them

you fail.

not supported.

(sorry, that thread actually made me angry cause of its stupidity)

Luckyduck
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.08.06 01:14:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Andreya
Originally by: Luckyduck
Originally by: Daveydweeb
long stuff


It's not about 1 dictor, it's about 8-10 doing the job of 30 support. People newer to this game don't seem to remember the day the frigate class actually did something in fleets more than zoom around like tards.


like tards?!? wow this is honestly the stupidest idea ive heard in a good few weeks.

first off THEY NERFED DICTORS! .. to the point where around 70-80% of the dedicated pilots stopped flying them!
cheap? not really? i can tellin gyou right f_ing now my implants arent cheap either.. you expect me to constantly die while trying to tackle people for you? or is it YOU kept dying by dictor bubbles cause you guys couldnt think of a productive counter against dictors (which nowadays with their speed nerf. is a nano thorax :S) .. or you engaged in a drake blob.

you have issues. dictor have received the shortest end of the stick next to arazus lately.


go back to high sec if you don twant to deal with them

you fail.

not supported.

(sorry, that thread actually made me angry cause of its stupidity)


I like it when arguments always come down to some implants someone bought.

Ne0 MaTrIx
We See Dead People
Chaos Theory Alliance
Posted - 2008.08.06 04:50:00 - [33]
 

mmmm why do you wana nerf the bubble soo much? its not overpowered at all most ships can go the 20km in under 2 min unless you have a freighter or cap bubbled.... dictors have already been ****d to death by the nerf bat... my saber dosnt have much for dps or much for speed any more since they NERF'd it already.... what they should do is boost there speed back to where they use to be... ITS A DESTROYER CLASS SHIP ment for killin frigs and stuff so why nerf it more then it already is?Rolling Eyes
Originally by: Luckyduck
Edited by: Luckyduck on 02/08/2008 05:12:55
Edited by: Luckyduck on 02/08/2008 05:09:56

I've complained about this a few times, and we've already seen a decrease in time for Dictor bubbles. But I think it's time to take another look at these ships.

Firstly, you now have heavy dictors which IMO are much more balanced for what they can do. They get great tanks, but their effects die with their ships.

The current problem with dictors is they drop a huge sphere warp disruption that can bubble huge chunks of a fleet. Even if the ship dies, their effect lingers either until you can MWD out of it, which takes huge amounts of time, or until the bubble drops, up to 2 minutes after the dictors death.

The ships are cheap and very disposable, making thier suicidal tendencies even greater, and ships are still allowed to warp on grid, which is probably the most ghetto feature in game as it's too easy to warp to wrecks (I'd have less issue with ship to ship warping staying).

So the fix:

Dictor base speed increase back to original values. This should become their primary defense again, while not being overly powered as the speed nerf comes in.

2 bubbles
Current Dictor bubble:
Timer 10 sec
Volume 1
Radius 20km


New bubble:
Timer 2 min
Vol 10
Radius 2.5-5km

Launcher:
ROF 10sec
Volume 20
Reload 30sec


This means the dictor now relies more on it's own survival than before. It's bubble selection will dictate more of how much of an effect it can have. The longer duration bubble can still work on gates if the dictor is placed in allingment, the shorter and longer bubble can both be used for podding.

Volume and Reload would affect mass spamming, but still allow a good coverage with the larger bubble.

Essentially, what this does is remove 1 ship from being the catchall of support in small combat and fleets. Right now, most fleets gear around 2 ships, BS and dictors. All other ships seem to be lost because tackling is left strictly to dictors.


Taymees
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.08.08 00:40:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Taymees on 08/08/2008 00:41:40
no. Dumb idea. CCP should focus on new aspects of the game instead of adhering to whiners on the fourms...


taymees

Cartiff
The Scope
Posted - 2008.08.08 10:25:00 - [35]
 

not needed, leave them alone

Yaay
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Posted - 2008.08.08 15:00:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Yaay on 08/08/2008 15:03:13

Originally by: Ne0 MaTrIx
mmmm why do you wana nerf the bubble soo much? its not overpowered at all most ships can go the 20km in under 2 min unless you have a freighter or cap bubbled.... dictors have already been ****d to death by the nerf bat... my saber dosnt have much for dps or much for speed any more since they NERF'd it already.... what they should do is boost there speed back to where they use to be... ITS A DESTROYER CLASS SHIP ment for killin frigs and stuff so why nerf it more then it already is?Rolling Eyes
Originally by: Luckyduck
Edited by: Luckyduck on 02/08/2008 05:12:55
Edited by: Luckyduck on 02/08/2008 05:09:56

I've complained about this a few times, and we've already seen a decrease in time for Dictor bubbles. But I think it's time to take another look at these ships.

Firstly, you now have heavy dictors which IMO are much more balanced for what they can do. They get great tanks, but their effects die with their ships.

The current problem with dictors is they drop a huge sphere warp disruption that can bubble huge chunks of a fleet. Even if the ship dies, their effect lingers either until you can MWD out of it, which takes huge amounts of time, or until the bubble drops, up to 2 minutes after the dictors death.

The ships are cheap and very disposable, making thier suicidal tendencies even greater, and ships are still allowed to warp on grid, which is probably the most ghetto feature in game as it's too easy to warp to wrecks (I'd have less issue with ship to ship warping staying).

So the fix:

Dictor base speed increase back to original values. This should become their primary defense again, while not being overly powered as the speed nerf comes in.

2 bubbles
Current Dictor bubble:
Timer 10 sec
Volume 1
Radius 20km


New bubble:
Timer 2 min
Vol 10
Radius 2.5-5km

Launcher:
ROF 10sec
Volume 20
Reload 30sec


This means the dictor now relies more on it's own survival than before. It's bubble selection will dictate more of how much of an effect it can have. The longer duration bubble can still work on gates if the dictor is placed in allingment, the shorter and longer bubble can both be used for podding.

Volume and Reload would affect mass spamming, but still allow a good coverage with the larger bubble.

Essentially, what this does is remove 1 ship from being the catchall of support in small combat and fleets. Right now, most fleets gear around 2 ships, BS and dictors. All other ships seem to be lost because tackling is left strictly to dictors.




Maybe I'm misreading my original post, but I think I stated that their speed should be boosted in an age where speed is about to get sunk making them much harder to catch. They still get a 2 minute bubble but it's greatly diminished in size. If they want a maximum range effect, they can keep a 20km bubble up, but it's going to require frequient drops over 2 minute span rather than 1 drop.

Keep in mind it's likely webs are gonna get nuked also, so a speedy small ship will soon be very hard to kill as intended. Add to this shields that can hit upwards of 3k if fit with extenders and a speed plus small shield buffer becomes a very effective ship.


I think part of the problem with the people in this thread is they hear a change and refuse to consider all the current and future factors that are going to come into game play.

I'd really like dictors to keep the 8-10km/second speeds that would keep them usable. Are they still going to suck in lag, sure, but what ship doesn't already. Bare in mind, the speed is a bit lower than currently achievable b/c the command ship bonus will likely be gone soon.

Honestly, this proposal goes well with the current nano nerf when you consider that fleets will be given more maneuverability if and until a perma bubble or heavy dictor gets on a gate.

Benedic
Posted - 2008.08.08 15:03:00 - [37]
 

Posting to show this is a bad idea.

Yaay
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Posted - 2008.08.08 17:30:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Yaay on 08/08/2008 17:30:28
from another forum but i want it here...

Quote:
QUOTE (Agmar @ Aug 8 2008, 11:10 AM) *
That's a pretty small bubble, especially for a ship that was designed to tackle fleets. Consider a fleet of 50 BS warping together, a 20km bubble doesn't get all of them 80% of the time.

Now, a frigate class dictor with the small bubbles... that sounds interesting. I could see a lot of potential there.





The dictor still keeps the 20km bubble per the post. It's only losing the duration of said bubble so that it's not a lingering effect if the ship is popped. The 5km bubble holds the duration, so 2x launchers could be very effective at throwing down 2 5km bubbles. I'd rather a dictor have more speed, less guns and be responsible more for dropping bubbles than replacing the frigate.

The point of it is to remove a single ship's ability to tackle large portions of fleet. This allows more flyby attempts w/o making them impossible to counter. This is a very quick path to reducing the amount of people needed for fleet warfare and thus reducing blob mechanics. The better more skilled fleet flyby becomes an alternative again.

Older Bob members and their competition should remember the 50 man flyby fleets causing havoc on triple their numbers. This would bring back this tactic to an extent but with more reprocussions since dictors are in game.

Keep in mind, dictors were added to game b/c of flyby fleets in and out of grid constantly. But their so good at their job, it's enhanced blobbing b/c the fleet are held down way to easy now a days.

I dunno, maybe make the bubble 20 second duration, but 2 minutes is a joke for that size bubble.

Farrqua
Minmatar
In Igne Morim
Posted - 2008.08.08 18:16:00 - [39]
 

Crap idea.

Raising issues to compensate for your inadequacies FTW.

Yaay
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Posted - 2008.08.09 03:57:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Yaay on 09/08/2008 03:57:35
Originally by: Farrqua
Crap idea.

Raising issues to compensate for your inadequacies FTW.


yes, it's never ever benefited me, ever... I like one way streets, they're easier to walk against. You know it's a fun game when people hide behind alts on this forum.

Daveydweeb
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.08.09 06:37:00 - [41]
 

Cornfield this thread.


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