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LetsDoThis
Posted - 2008.07.29 05:02:00 - [1]
 

So whos testing out some new frigate tackling tactics?

Ones im interested in hearing about are mwd + ab + scrambler.

Get in there quick with mwd, tackle with scrambler and ab.

I figure the scram + ab can give a speed advantage through killing their speed to normal velocity, and boosting your frigate speed to near normal velocity.

Anybody having success with this?

Feyona
Time Bandits.
Posted - 2008.07.29 05:26:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Feyona on 29/07/2008 05:26:16
I've tried it... not altogether successfully. :\ You're still going way too slow, and will take lots of damage from missiles. Light drones will eat you alive. Would not recommend.

Draahk Chimera
Interstellar eXodus
Posted - 2008.07.29 05:27:00 - [3]
 

Max skilled speed pilot + normal hardwires I would use on TQ + speed fitted stiletto with AB II = 1800 m/s. Not enough to outrun even bs sized missiles. Let alone heavy missiles. I like the "nerf" but I think AB needs more boost. I suggested in the official thread they make new 'Rouge' plants that not goes into slot 6 and gives speed boost amplifying to AB only.

LetsDoThis
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:12:00 - [4]
 

I believe missiles and drones are almost certain to be in for a rebalance.

The way missiles work now is either hit or miss, will probably be made more sensitive to velocity and sig radius.

Drones.. hopefully get nerfed, and then drone specialty ships get further bonus. Cause yea, every ship with a drone bay is an anti-frigate now.

Maybe a big HP and signature resolution nerf, and then drone ships get bigger HP buff and an additional sig resolution buff.


How is frigate tackling vs medium sized turrets at very close ranges?

Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:29:00 - [5]
 

large smartbombs. 'nuff said.

Feyona
Time Bandits.
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:30:00 - [6]
 

I tried this in an inty, did 300m/s or so in web range with no AB and wasn't hit by Zealot guns. So it's possible now, but like I said before, drones and missiles will kill you.

More to the point, if we're going to nerf missiles and drones, why bother with this whole business of getting rid of speed at all, just to get things back to how they are now?

Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:33:00 - [7]
 

Mwd + scram + web work reasonably well against cruisers and up using mwd themselves, didnt check with AB but even if you're webbed (single-web!) you usually get just enough edge in speed to orbit and out-transverse guns if you turn off mwd and web+scram them.

Works good on AFs at least, didnt really try t1 frigs so far.

Feyona
Time Bandits.
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:34:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Willow Whisp
large smartbombs. 'nuff said.


This.

Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:40:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 29/07/2008 06:43:08
Originally by: Feyona

More to the point, if we're going to nerf missiles and drones, why bother with this whole business of getting rid of speed at all, just to get things back to how they are now?


Yes, it seems like these, uhm, small changes open up a whole can of worms in that respect so that one has to ask how thats supposed to be fine-tuned, how long this process will take, and how many additional changes it requires.

Maybe just trying to overcome the physics engines troubles with missile improvements would get more work/reward.

Or just completely rework missiles from ground up? Its probably the most broken/unrealistic weapon in eve, it has bugged me since I started playing how missiles are working here.

Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:45:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Feyona
Originally by: Willow Whisp
large smartbombs. 'nuff said.


This.


Yea, given its not that easy to pop webbed drones anymore they might become more popular.

Vengal Seyhan
Minmatar
Sudden Buggery
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:45:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Feyona
I tried this in an inty, did 300m/s or so in web range with no AB and wasn't hit by Zealot guns. So it's possible now, but like I said before, drones and missiles will kill you.

More to the point, if we're going to nerf missiles and drones, why bother with this whole business of getting rid of speed at all, just to get things back to how they are now?


Having things slower as a general rule measn that packet latency (or whatever you call it) isn't as critical.

I play in Australia, so irrespective of my computer hardware my ping times ain't great - and 0.2seconds @ 8k/sec means I'm always 1.5km behind the pace, so to speak.... At those speeds that's win or lose based upon geography and connection speed :)

Halving speeds means that lag has half the effect.

Last time I fought an inty gang I couldn't target **** because by the time my overview was registering them as being in range the server as registering them as being out of range already. Add that to a falcon in the gang and it was a very one-sided fight. I know there are ways around it, but it's gotta be freacking annoying for a new player to come to terms with all the work-arounds.

I think that the reason they want to decrease speeds in general is to make combat universally slower paced (maybe, god forbid, more tactical, rather than the 5 second close and pwn affair it is right now). If true, a nerf to drones and missile would be in line with that philosophy.

All that said above, I'd be distressed if Eve became a more static game (see the speed drops to battleships, I mean, WTF?? Gate traverses in missions FTL)

I mean, FFS it's a spaceship with endless acceleration (up to C)... I want to see blindingly quick speeds, because space is a frictionless vacuum. I know it's not possible, or playable in PvP, but it's partly about suspension of disbelief and 'feel'.

Feyona
Time Bandits.
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:51:00 - [12]
 

I have had that problem. I play from in the central US and I often seem to have very bad latency problems (often it seems like a 1-2 second delay between commands being entered and heeded) so I dunno. You could be right about that. I'm still irritated by the way they're choosing to go about it though.

Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:57:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Feyona
I have had that problem. I play from in the central US and I often seem to have very bad latency problems (often it seems like a 1-2 second delay between commands being entered and heeded) so I dunno. You could be right about that. I'm still irritated by the way they're choosing to go about it though.


Thats normal, I have a very good connection, but that 1-2 sec lag will be always there, no real way around that with the sheer number of players.

Looking at up to 40k online, thats not too bad even considering other gameservers tend to fold under much lower load.

Dzajic
Gallente
Posted - 2008.07.29 06:57:00 - [14]
 

Nerf drones? Oh yes, CCP you absolutely must nerf drones.

Myrm nerfed, Eos nerfed, Damps nerfed, ALL blasterboats, now nerfed. Plz CCP nerf those evil imba drones.

I suggest giving all Caldari players a module that destroys selected ship at any range. Heck, you should be able to just click on enemy in local chat and destroy his ship and pod him.

Feyona
Time Bandits.
Posted - 2008.07.29 07:13:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Dzajic
Nerf drones? Oh yes, CCP you absolutely must nerf drones.

Myrm nerfed, Eos nerfed, Damps nerfed, ALL blasterboats, now nerfed. Plz CCP nerf those evil imba drones.

I suggest giving all Caldari players a module that destroys selected ship at any range. Heck, you should be able to just click on enemy in local chat and destroy his ship and pod him.


That's a little overboard and not what we were thinking at all... It's just that, with the new changes, there's going to be very little frigate pilots can do to counter drones, yeh? Ceptors right now are fast enough to avoid them, but they won't really be after the patch. (Missiles either, so this is hardly a Caldari thing really. I'm primarily a minmatar pilot anyway...) Should any ship that can carry some light drones be an anti-tackler? Isn't that a destroyer's role?

Vengal Seyhan
Minmatar
Sudden Buggery
Posted - 2008.07.29 07:50:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Dzajic
Nerf drones? Oh yes, CCP you absolutely must nerf drones.

Myrm nerfed, Eos nerfed, Damps nerfed, ALL blasterboats, now nerfed. Plz CCP nerf those evil imba drones.

I suggest giving all Caldari players a module that destroys selected ship at any range. Heck, you should be able to just click on enemy in local chat and destroy his ship and pod him.


Look mate, I'm with you on that - I don't want to see drones nerfed. I'm a Domi pilot. As it is I already dislike Ogres because they're too fricking sloooow to get to their targets. I don't want to see the situation get worse in response to decreased ship speeds across the board.

... But that's what might happen. If inties die to any ship with capability to deploy light drones (which is most of them) as people as complaining about, then something will need to be rebalanced in the drone department.

Really, I think the tactic should be: If you see a ship with light drones, you kill the drones then think about the ship (most ships can't replace them). You shouldn't be able to ignore / outfly them.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.07.29 08:04:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Willow Whisp
large smartbombs. 'nuff said.


on a frigate?

yes large smartbombs kill drones, thanks we know. I'm not going to fit a large smartbomb on my frig.

Feyona
Time Bandits.
Posted - 2008.07.29 08:06:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Feyona on 29/07/2008 08:06:44
Originally by: Vengal Seyhan
Look mate, I'm with you on that - I don't want to see drones nerfed. I'm a Domi pilot. As it is I already dislike Ogres because they're too fricking sloooow to get to their targets. I don't want to see the situation get worse in response to decreased ship speeds across the board.

... But that's what might happen. If inties die to any ship with capability to deploy light drones (which is most of them) as people as complaining about, then something will need to be rebalanced in the drone department.

Really, I think the tactic should be: If you see a ship with light drones, you kill the drones then think about the ship (most ships can't replace them). You shouldn't be able to ignore / outfly them.


I think maybe keep the speed but give them less damage, I dunno. I would be really, really hesitant to nerf them at any rate. My experience has been 'caught by drones = insta-dead' with almost no time to shoot back or realize what's going on. IE your transversal dropped, you made a mistake, and paid for it.

I admit I'm not the greatest player around, maybe some people can manage to lock & kill five drones while also trying to tackle a ship before it gets away (your primary job.) Especially with the ~20km lock range of ships like the Claw, and drones moving @ 8km/s, that gives you... 3 seconds to lock and shoot them before they are on you?

Personally I think that, with regards to frigates though, things are fine as they are now on TQ, we wouldn't even be having this discussion if the speed nerf wasn't so heavy handed. Mad

Mothermoon: He meant large smartbombs will kill you if you get too close to a ship that you're trying to tackle/fight. Quickly, also.

LetsDoThis
Posted - 2008.07.29 13:34:00 - [19]
 

Large smartbomb is 6km radius and only a BS can reasonably fit.
t2 scram = 9km, and with reactivation delay, can hop in and out of that range to disable mwd as needed.

Things like neut and smartbombs seem fine, nothings changes in that regard, but frigates do seem much easier to hit now.


 

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