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Nikita Aratsu
Posted - 2008.07.28 17:53:00 - [1]
 

Passive tanking needs to be looked at, a drake can tank about 600+ dps without having to use its cap for anything. A rigged hurricane will tank about 350dps and have to use cap.

The problem with passive tanking is it makes you immune to all forms for cap warfare, which imo is not fair, one on one the drake is overpowered vs other battlecruisers as they will have a hard time breaking its tank and its likely the drake will win eventually. Drakes and all forms of passive tanking seriously needs balanceing.

Major Stallion
The Money Shot Inc.
Posted - 2008.07.28 17:53:00 - [2]
 

when you passive tank you scarifice DPS..fair tradeoff to me

Kelron Queldine
Beyond Divinity Inc
Excuses.
Posted - 2008.07.28 17:54:00 - [3]
 

It's fine, and I don't do it.

Paaaulo
Minmatar Mafia
Posted - 2008.07.28 17:55:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Paaaulo on 28/07/2008 17:55:50
Originally by: Major Stallion
when you passive tank you scarifice DPS..fair tradeoff to me


a drake with T2 laucnhers can do 300+ dps, thats more than a hurricane which also sacrifices damage for tank as its an armour tanking ship.

You do relise when you nano you cant hit when your tanks working full speed. So by this logic nerf drakes!!11111

Von Druid
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.07.28 17:55:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Von Druid on 28/07/2008 17:55:17
Originally by: Major Stallion
when you passive tank you scarifice DPS..fair tradeoff to me
When you active armor tank you sacrifice DPS..fair tradeoff to me

Lt Angus
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.07.28 17:57:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Major Stallion
when you passive tank you scarifice DPS..fair tradeoff to me


only if u do it wrong

ps dont nerf me Sad

kublai
Guillotine Therapy
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2008.07.28 17:57:00 - [7]
 

A drake stole my baby :(

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2008.07.28 17:58:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Paaaulo
Edited by: Paaaulo on 28/07/2008 17:55:50
Originally by: Major Stallion
when you passive tank you scarifice DPS..fair tradeoff to me


a drake with T2 laucnhers can do 300+ dps, thats more than a hurricane which also sacrifices damage for tank as its an armour tanking ship.

You do relise when you nano you cant hit when your tanks working full speed. So by this logic nerf drakes!!11111


300dps, slow, no tackle, no ewar.
That makes you basically deadweight in a gang, with your only role being dying last, after the rest of the gang loses a fight. Either way, your contribution is probably lower than it would have been in almost any other ship.

Nikita Aratsu
Posted - 2008.07.28 17:58:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Nikita Aratsu on 28/07/2008 18:00:01
the point is the drakes tank is twice as strong (probally more than that) than the rigged hurricane(and does more damage),and the tank cant be broken with neuts, as its 100% capless. passive tanking should be toned down.

or make shield power relays into a module that needs to be active to increase the shields regen, that would be the easiest fix.

Agor Dirdonen
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:00:00 - [10]
 

Where is the time that Pottsey was ridiculed for starting the discussion on Passive Tanks even when she was saying "it's probably not viable in pvp but who knows?"




Greenmist
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:00:00 - [11]
 

I agree with OP.

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:04:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Greenmist
I agree with OP.

How many people who say that aren't alts? Laughing

Sure, a good passive tank on a drake may be able to break 600 DPS. but in order to achieve that, you sacrifice almost everything else as a result. Your DPS is unimpressive, you're slow, and have no tackling ability. You basically tell smaller targets to buzz off but become a gigantic target for anything with enough DPS.

TheG2
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:05:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: TheG2 on 28/07/2008 18:05:43
Passive setups sacrifice a lot in order to be passive, DPS aside.

They lack (usually) any form of Ewar, an afterburner, and usually will suffer a lot from a strong alpha attack. 1v1 they can last for quite a while, but 1 vs many they tend to die quickly.

Bald Rikk
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:07:00 - [14]
 

I would like to know how you get the drake doing more damage than a hurricane.

Mine does a LOT more than 300dps and can still tank some.

Nikita Aratsu
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:09:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: TheG2
1v1 they can last for quite a while, but 1 vs many they tend to die quickly.


Isnt that the same with most ships?

My main point is, there should be a way to counter passive tanks with neuts, make shield power relays an active module and remove the cap recharge bonus.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:10:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 28/07/2008 18:11:15
Strange…

Building a PST Hurricane gives me a 600-ish DPS omnitank, compared to a 700-ish DPS tank on the Drake. Hardly "twice as strong". Also, given how PG heavy that tank is, the DPS on the Drake goes down to somewhere in the 200:s, compared to 300+ for the Hurricane. Both are completly capless fits.

…but of course, that's only what EFT tells me.

Major Stallion
The Money Shot Inc.
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:10:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Paaaulo
Edited by: Paaaulo on 28/07/2008 17:55:50
Originally by: Major Stallion
when you passive tank you scarifice DPS..fair tradeoff to me


a drake with T2 laucnhers can do 300+ dps, thats more than a hurricane which also sacrifices damage for tank as its an armour tanking ship.

You do relise when you nano you cant hit when your tanks working full speed. So by this logic nerf drakes!!11111


if you cant get 300 DPS out of your hurricane, you're doing something wrong...

Nikita Aratsu
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:11:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Bald Rikk
I would like to know how you get the drake doing more damage than a hurricane.

Mine does a LOT more than 300dps and can still tank some.


cane with 6x220mm ac's II in high, 2x mar, 3x harderners and a DCU II in lows does about 250-270dps but dont forget you fight in falloff with ac's so the damage is already less than the raw numbers.

Paaaulo
Minmatar Mafia
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:12:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Paaaulo
Edited by: Paaaulo on 28/07/2008 17:55:50
Originally by: Major Stallion
when you passive tank you scarifice DPS..fair tradeoff to me


a drake with T2 laucnhers can do 300+ dps, thats more than a hurricane which also sacrifices damage for tank as its an armour tanking ship.

You do relise when you nano you cant hit when your tanks working full speed. So by this logic nerf drakes!!11111


if you cant get 300 DPS out of your hurricane, you're doing something wrong...


i didnt say i couldnt :p but with max tank its not much more than that.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:15:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Nikita Aratsu
Passive tanking needs to be looked at, a drake can tank about 600+ dps without having to use its cap for anything. A rigged hurricane will tank about 350dps and have to use cap.



Just to get some clarification: since you specifically mention "a rigged hurricane" while just saying "a drake", are you talking about an unrigged Drake in this thread?

Demented Fury
Jita Garbage Collection LTD
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:16:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Nikita Aratsu
Originally by: Bald Rikk
I would like to know how you get the drake doing more damage than a hurricane.

Mine does a LOT more than 300dps and can still tank some.


cane with 6x220mm ac's II in high, 2x mar, 3x harderners and a DCU II in lows does about 250-270dps but dont forget you fight in falloff with ac's so the damage is already less than the raw numbers.
I love how you fit for no dps, good job

Nikita Aratsu
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:16:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Estel Arador
Originally by: Nikita Aratsu
Passive tanking needs to be looked at, a drake can tank about 600+ dps without having to use its cap for anything. A rigged hurricane will tank about 350dps and have to use cap.



Just to get some clarification: since you specifically mention "a rigged hurricane" while just saying "a drake", are you talking about an unrigged Drake in this thread?


t1 rigged hurricane, with t2 spr's

Cat Gilligan
Caldari
1st Cavalry Division
Phalanx Alliance
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:17:00 - [23]
 

Passive tanking also has drawbacks, in that you can't do anything that needs cap...

Bald Rikk
Body Count Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:18:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Nikita Aratsu


cane with 6x220mm ac's II in high, 2x mar, 3x harderners and a DCU II in lows does about 250-270dps but dont forget you fight in falloff with ac's so the damage is already less than the raw numbers.


Aha, I see now
You are using a badly fitted cane as an example

Nikita Aratsu
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:18:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Demented Fury
Originally by: Nikita Aratsu
Originally by: Bald Rikk
I would like to know how you get the drake doing more damage than a hurricane.

Mine does a LOT more than 300dps and can still tank some.


cane with 6x220mm ac's II in high, 2x mar, 3x harderners and a DCU II in lows does about 250-270dps but dont forget you fight in falloff with ac's so the damage is already less than the raw numbers.
I love how you fit for no dps, good job


Im compareing one ship fit for max tank to another fit for max tank, so why would i fit it for dps? the hurricanes already weaker tank uses cap and is weak to neuts, the drakes isnt weak to neuts, and should be, thats the point im getting at.

Jalmari Huitsikko
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:21:00 - [26]
 

MISSILES ALWAYS HIT! RAW DPS > TANK... badgerbadgerbadger

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:22:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Nikita Aratsu
Im compareing one ship fit for max tank to another fit for max tank, so why would i fit it for dps? the hurricanes already weaker tank uses cap and is weak to neuts, the drakes isnt weak to neuts, and should be, thats the point im getting at.
No you're not. You're comparing a ship fit for max tank with a ship fit for obvious tank… but obvious ≠ max in this case.

NeoTheo
M'8'S
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:27:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: NeoTheo on 28/07/2008 18:33:01
a drake with no BCU's and HMLII's with MAX skills does 250 dps.

so please stop talking about this 300 dps *******s.

with my build (and skills), i tank 640 DPS, produce 231 DPS, and have no speed, no tackle and no juju.

please talk some sense and we can debate ;)

EDIT: if i drop the tanky modules from the lows and swapout for DPS, (IE 3 BCUs), i do 360ish DPS, and i tank 360ish dps.




Wet Ferret
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:32:00 - [29]
 

Yeah, unfortunately for the Drake, in order for it to do anything useful like EWAR, speed (HAMs) or damage it has to give up the tank you're complaining about. Stop complaining.

Akiba Penrose
The Praxis Initiative
Posted - 2008.07.28 18:33:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Nikita Aratsu
a drake can tank about 600+ dps without having to use its cap for anything. A rigged hurricane will tank about 350dps and have to use cap.

Learn to fit your ships you nub Very Happy.
Both those setups are full of fail.


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