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Leon 026
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.07.29 08:05:00 - [31]
 

For those that aren't testing it - gistii A or T2, you're getting the same 500% boost as T1. Only thing that changes is the cap use which is frankly unnoticeable in difference.

Its all nice and dandy that an inty can hit 5k in a straight line drag-race, but you're looking at half that once maneuvering kicks in - and the crow suffers big time.

The nerfs shouldve mainly affected polycarbs, but I personally do not think it was wise to screw with the MWD nor some speed mods.

Euriti
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.07.29 08:22:00 - [32]
 

My main concern is that interceptors wont have the speed to speedtank properly anymore. I mean my ares has lost nearly 2k speed :(

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2008.07.29 08:28:00 - [33]
 

I've been on and tried the blasteranis with both MWD and AB.

You can forget both tbh, the thing dies in seconds.

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2008.07.29 08:28:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Thorradin
Originally by: Leon 026
Edited by: Leon 026 on 28/07/2008 19:21:49
Well, with the massive amount of cap on inties, I forsee a surge in near perma active-tanked interceptors (which is quite the oxymoron).

Imo, this will need changing, because really, there's no more need to have AFs.


Ishkur, Hawk and Harpy are likely to still be pretty damn mean to close orbitting inties, especially the ishkur with its drones that will run the inty down and slaughter it unless it has a gist a-type small SB maybe...


Since the point of assault ships is precisely to defend bigger ships against small targets, and since they have too few slots to make tracking mods mandatory to perform their role, I'd say the Sisi situation is a pretty good one.

Leon 026
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.07.29 09:05:00 - [35]
 

Its also worth adding that snake clones for inty fights offer no tangible advantage.

Issue is that snakes scale with speed. Using the TQ (+33%) one as an example, an inty flying at 4k, will recieve +33%, for a speed of 5.3 'ish, which is a 1.3km/s boost. Not much, but considerable enough to give it an edge. The only real problem with this is at super high end speeds where fitting snakes and polycarbs would get you from 10k to 13.3, which is more than 200% more effective at the 4k level.

However, the changes have nerfed the snake to merely 16%. What this means is that at the 4k/s level only add a measily 500-600m/s, which in an inty vs inty situation is hardly noticeable. Either way, 4k vs 4.6, factor in turns, you're doing abouy 2-3k on a reliable basis, thus snake or no-snake, you're taking full damage from perfectly tracking small guns - thus will lead to DPS interceptors now coming out on top.


Secondly, tactics. At the 14k+ level, tactics or no tactics, you wont be killing anything. At the 8k level, it evens out where good tactics will get you the kill (around the mid/late 2006 period), which in my opinion was THE perfect speed range for interceptors. However, what SiSi does is take this one step further to the mid/late 2005 level - a missile crow cannot hope to compete at 5k/s when you have the crusader/taranis flying at similar speeds, and the issue is that you can no longer enter complex maneuvering since small guns track perfectly... which leads to the usage of the old school '05 200mm (or in some case 400mm) plated rocket crow.

The issue this will create due to low speed high gank setups is that inty fights will end up being like the very old '05 inty fights - fit tank, fit gank, click approach, pray.

Maneuvering at these low speeds is pointless are you're taking full damage regardless, and maneuvering doesnt help you at all.

I wont say that inty fighting is dead, but I'm going to go ahead and say that complex dogfighting is no longer applicable and tactics is less important when the tank/gank factor takes priority in deciding the fight - not the fly style. I personally do not think this is a good direction overall for interceptor combat. I'm sure the 'ranis and 'sader pilots will be overjoyed that they can kill everything else now by simply staying static, but its not inty combat if you're using cruiser-like tactics to actually dogfight.

Christiaan Huygens
Posted - 2008.07.29 10:04:00 - [36]
 

If Inties are too sluggish now, and you have low slots free due to ODs and nanos stacking against each other, why not just fir an I-stab or two to increase your agility?

Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
Posted - 2008.07.29 10:16:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Christiaan Huygens
If Inties are too sluggish now, and you have low slots free due to ODs and nanos stacking against each other, why not just fir an I-stab or two to increase your agility?


Because Istabs now affect your inertia, not your agility. Which basically means that if you fit an I-Stab, and get webbed, you hit the windshield instead of coasting out of range.

The optimal setup is now 3x overdirve, 2x low-friction nozzle joints. Policarbs stack penalize with overdrives AND with nanos. Istabs stacking penalize with nanos, and nanos affect speed and inertia.

Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Punic Corp.
Posted - 2008.07.29 10:50:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 29/07/2008 10:51:48
Originally by: Christiaan Huygens
If Inties are too sluggish now, and you have low slots free due to ODs and nanos stacking against each other, why not just fir an I-stab or two to increase your agility?


Yeah, I think the best low slot fit now on a 4 low slot interceptor is 1 x overdrive, 2 x nanofiber, 1 x inertial stabilizer. But whether you're doing that or fitting 4 overdrives, speeds are too low in either case. Just more agile with the more balanced fit.

Vengal Seyhan
Minmatar
Sudden Buggery
Posted - 2008.07.29 11:04:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Reem Fairchild
Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 29/07/2008 10:51:48
Originally by: Christiaan Huygens
If Inties are too sluggish now, and you have low slots free due to ODs and nanos stacking against each other, why not just fir an I-stab or two to increase your agility?


Yeah, I think the best low slot fit now on a 4 low slot interceptor is 1 x overdrive, 2 x nanofiber, 1 x inertial stabilizer. But whether you're doing that or fitting 4 overdrives, speeds are too low in either case. Just more agile with the more balanced fit.


This leads me to ask the simple question : Why should the smallest, lightest and most agile ship class in the game need i-stabs to maneuver properly? As far as I'm concerned rigs and modules should add optional capabilities to do something unusual, not become mandatory fit to survive or win. Otherwise you're just back at the polycarb stage, albeit slower.

I'd love to see inties have the freedom to do something unusual with their slots, aside from just fit speed mods.

IMHO If people need i-stabs (or whatever) on an inty because maneuverability is poor, this should be looked at.

Christiaan Huygens
Posted - 2008.07.29 11:26:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Vengal Seyhan
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 29/07/2008 10:51:48
Originally by: Christiaan Huygens
If Inties are too sluggish now, and you have low slots free due to ODs and nanos stacking against each other, why not just fir an I-stab or two to increase your agility?


Yeah, I think the best low slot fit now on a 4 low slot interceptor is 1 x overdrive, 2 x nanofiber, 1 x inertial stabilizer. But whether you're doing that or fitting 4 overdrives, speeds are too low in either case. Just more agile with the more balanced fit.


This leads me to ask the simple question : Why should the smallest, lightest and most agile ship class in the game need i-stabs to maneuver properly? As far as I'm concerned rigs and modules should add optional capabilities to do something unusual, not become mandatory fit to survive or win. Otherwise you're just back at the polycarb stage, albeit slower.

I'd love to see inties have the freedom to do something unusual with their slots, aside from just fit speed mods.

IMHO If people need i-stabs (or whatever) on an inty because maneuverability is poor, this should be looked at.


Define "maneuver properly". Are you implying that Interceptors can't move at all without an I-stab? If not, then you're really saying that you don't think Interceptors have enough agility, which is a subjective opinion based on past expreiences of what they used to be like.

Feyona
Time Bandits.
Posted - 2008.07.29 11:34:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Christiaan Huygens
Define "maneuver properly". Are you implying that Interceptors can't move at all without an I-stab? If not, then you're really saying that you don't think Interceptors have enough agility, which is a subjective opinion based on past expreiences of what they used to be like.


It's more like they're not fast enough and they now get owned in the face by missiles and drones. They thus cannot do their jobs, which is to tackle, because ANY ship with missiles or drones can kill them. Hardly subjective.

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2008.07.29 11:43:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Feyona
Originally by: Christiaan Huygens
Define "maneuver properly". Are you implying that Interceptors can't move at all without an I-stab? If not, then you're really saying that you don't think Interceptors have enough agility, which is a subjective opinion based on past expreiences of what they used to be like.


It's more like they're not fast enough and they now get owned in the face by missiles and drones. They thus cannot do their jobs, which is to tackle, because ANY ship with missiles or drones can kill them. Hardly subjective.


If you, say, fit a damage control and one damage mod on your inty, you can't kill the enemy light drones before they kill you?

Missile stats will be changed, too. So it might no be the tackler slaughter you fear.

Also, keep in mind that if an inty tackle a BS, it is expected to have some support hanging around, to deal damage and take over when the inty has to flee.


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