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Kery Syander
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.10.22 14:14:00 - [2581]
 

Originally by: Hortoken Wolfbrother
This nerf is the worst thing I've seen from CCP.

Please stick to deleting our boot.ini, It's much more intelligent than this nerf is.


I laughed pretty hard at this... but at the end of the day it's true.

This is just one more 'balance' issue where CCP displays their complete lack common sense and critical thinking.

eliminator2
Gallente
Vindicated Blast.
Posted - 2008.10.22 14:21:00 - [2582]
 

it is absolutly crap my rigged mega reaches 679m/s instead of 800-1000m/s with mwd and on top of that it doesnt reach top speed very fast at all nor does the mega have good tracking despite the bonuse

Banditten
GreenSwarm
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.22 18:23:00 - [2583]
 

I look forward to the speed patch. I have full confidence in CCP to find a way to make it work to improve PvP gameplay. I never liked the nano-fad to begin with.

DeJaView
Posted - 2008.10.22 21:28:00 - [2584]
 

I think CCP is being short sighted in the whole 'balancing' process of this game. TBQH, nano'ed fleet are pretty easily countered if you're just smart about your setups. It seems like CCP is trying to dumb down the game in the same manner that SWG was dumbed down to allow for younger players to understand the game faster.

I know of about 5 different counters for nano setups. The latest one that I've seen took out an overheated nano crow that jumped into a system (27km/s) using 2 ships and probably the most ingenious setup I've ever seen. Not to mention, neuts, nos's, & webs can also wipe out nano's very easily.

Is there a need to slow down battleships, cruisers, etc.? Absolutely. I guess the biggest issue is that I see is the fact that people aren't willing to spend the time to be inventive and dealing with issues on their own. "Nano's are overpowered" is heard all too much, but maybe CCP should think about this. Should a player with 5 million SP be able to take out a player with 50 million SP without even trying? Sure, sometimes, but on a regular basis that's just poor game mechanics in my opinion.

Angelonico
Helljumpers
Posted - 2008.10.22 22:59:00 - [2585]
 

Originally by: Banditten
I look forward to the speed patch. I have full confidence in CCP to find a way to make it work to improve PvP gameplay. I never liked the nano-fad to begin with.



10/10 you're either the best troll on these forums or a complete moron.

Probably the latter.

Malfoy Horizon
Posted - 2008.10.22 23:06:00 - [2586]
 

Expires: 12/12/2008 1:33:05 PM
Remaining Playtime: 50d:14h:29m

Iam out of this game. Have fun blobbing ;)

Einar Matveinen
Gallente
nXo
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2008.10.23 09:33:00 - [2587]
 

Edited by: Einar Matveinen on 23/10/2008 10:45:10
Edited by: Einar Matveinen on 23/10/2008 10:32:13
Edited by: Einar Matveinen on 23/10/2008 10:28:25
I think finally, there is a real nano-problem, mainly with nano-cruisers, the speed of nano-cruisers and other ships must be nerfed, mainly for doing usable again interdictors and assault ships classes and for another important reasons. But, i think that nanofibers and polycarbons must reduce ship mass, this must be revised too, polycarbons in TQ reduces 15% ship mass, this is too much, and the same with nanofibers (12.5% mass reduction), but a nerf in nanofibers and polycarbons only thinking in terms of speed and agility bonuses is a VERY questionable nerf, nanofibers reduce 20% structure HP, it isn't logical that this action doesn't reduce ship mass. Same with polycarbons.

I don't like this way of balancing the game, i think the mass must be reduced by these modules but much less.

Blaster Babe
Posted - 2008.10.23 11:22:00 - [2588]
 

Remaining Playtime: 28d:15h:23m

nope I dont fly nano's, just ceptors! EABOD's CCP DEVS!

Einar Matveinen
Gallente
nXo
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2008.10.23 11:37:00 - [2589]
 

Originally by: Blaster Babe
Remaining Playtime: 28d:15h:23m

nope I dont fly nano's, just ceptors! EABOD's CCP DEVS!


I can fly at 4100 m/seg with my old TQ ceptors in sissi and 5000 m/s with rigs,all without overheating mwds, with heat speed is much more, i think ceptors can be viable after nerf but they will be more difficult to fly and more specialized skills will be needed (acc. control lvl 5?? XD)

Maybe speed need be revised but i think the way the nerf is being planned is bad.This revision must be improved

Neo Rainhart
Guerilla Republik
Excuses.
Posted - 2008.10.23 11:42:00 - [2590]
 

Edited by: Neo Rainhart on 23/10/2008 11:44:30
Are you guys in CCP forcing me out of my belowed BS?

There is not much i can do in one on SISI flying solo. I dont WANT to fly anything else, I don't WANT to fly in blobs either..You leave me no options..Re-think the nerf!

It actually feels like i'm playing a whole different game now, a game i do not like.


How did you come to all this crap anyways? I mean, it started as a speed nerf but now its a Nerf everything but drakes and falcons nerf..Crying or Very sad

Einar Matveinen
Gallente
nXo
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2008.10.23 11:47:00 - [2591]
 

Originally by: Neo Rainhart
Edited by: Neo Rainhart on 23/10/2008 11:44:30
Are you guys in CCP forcing me out of my belowed BS?

There is not much i can do in one on SISI flying solo. I dont WANT to fly anything else, I don't WANT to fly in blobs either..You leave me no options..Re-think the nerf!

It actually feels like i'm playing a whole different game now, a game i do not like.


How did you come to all this crap anyways? I mean, it started as a speed nerf but now its a Nerf everything but drakes and falcons nerf..Crying or Very sad


Exactly, it's stupid nerfing BS or interceptors speeds when the real problem is with nano-cruisers...isn't it?

batmoth
Amarr
Cardinal Armada
Razakel.
Posted - 2008.10.23 18:23:00 - [2592]
 

here is the best i idea that i had discovered. DON"T DO IT!!!

you already ****ed off enough players with the ghost training "bug" and not listening to the people that pay your paycheck.
you are making it almost impossible for blaster boats (i fly amarr and minmater so it doesn't really effect me)
you are basically giving the whole game to the caladri and amarr race.

the end result of you doing this will cause more people to gang up in ships such as missle boats and races that can dictate range. thus causing many players wasting 2 or so years in training ships that will be useless.

here is a good idea.

  • make it so poly carbs stack nerf with nano's (same with overdrives and aux thrusters)

  • reduce the effectiveness of snakes (but not killing them.)

  • reduce the bonuses of overheating mwd's

  • reduce the effective boost that drug speed boosters give


here is why your idea is not the greatest.

  • adding a ability for scrams to effectivly make mwd's useless will cause blaster boats not to be able to reach their target, which means that they will die.

  • your changing way to much to fix a simple problem (which tells me you don't know how to approach this right).

  • nerfing webs are casuing the blaster boats and the minmater recons to lose a purpose to effectivley work.


if you do it this way i think alot more people will be satisifed. even the pro nano nerf people.




Miriyaka
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.10.23 18:55:00 - [2593]
 

Edited by: Miriyaka on 23/10/2008 18:57:36
The changes to missiles are good.

The gun stacking is good.

Everything else about this patch is still horribly thought-out. It smacks of 'doing the math' without actually playing the game. Removing mass reduction modules has far-reaching effects that go way beyond just simple speed. Removing the ability for any T2 cruiser but the Vagabond to speed-tank medium guns or missiles is incredibly short-sighted. Making all ships so slow that 100km is an infinite distance when facing down two faction-ammo beam Zealots is going to kill all tackling. The removal of fast tackling (by interceptors) removes one of the last avenues of significant player skill in Eve. Removing the ability to gain APPRECIABLE performance by spending isk on your clone and ship ONLY FOR SPEED but keeping this capability for tanking and dps output is not balanced at all. If you're going to eliminate the advantages of speed and faction speed modules and implants, I'd like to see faction damage and tanking (and implants) balanced to similar levels of performance increase (0-5% total) as well.

So far the only people in favor of this change as-is are uninformed of its consequences on small ships, those unable to imagine its consequences on PVE and ship travel, and those who already fly battleships and think they should be able to kill anything that can keep a point on them. Nevermind that this will also make battleships even more tedious to move around, and will greatly reduce the number of ships in eve able to be tackled and killed, resulting in an unintended economic imbalance.

This is still far, far, far too much change at once.

All to fix.. what problem, exactly? CCP has still not clearly explained what the problem with speed is. Just that 'there is a problem'. I kill fast ships. I don't see a problem?

Takarina
Perkone
Posted - 2008.10.23 22:06:00 - [2594]
 

I can not believe they used such a heavy hand in administering the speed nerf. It's just absolutely ******ed and unnecessary. Inties are going to be completely useless now, when they used to be one of the most enjoyable and affordable classes of ship.

Durris
Minmatar
Muppet Factory
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.10.23 22:40:00 - [2595]
 

CCP: Please don't ruin the game with this heavy-handed nonsense.

Nozh and Fendahl, do you guys actually PVP or is it all spreadsheets and theorycraft?

Slower battleships?? Are you serious?

Does anyone over there actually play this game, or is it just another day on the job?


Nian Banks
Minmatar
Berserkers of Aesir
Posted - 2008.10.24 06:03:00 - [2596]
 

Originally by: Durris
CCP: Please don't ruin the game with this heavy-handed nonsense.

Nozh and Fendahl, do you guys actually PVP or is it all spreadsheets and theorycraft?

Slower battleships?? Are you serious?

Does anyone over there actually play this game, or is it just another day on the job?





Ever since the scandal with the CCP employee giving BoB free blueprints and other misc dodgy events while he cheated through EvE in his spare time, CCP has had a strictly 'employees do not play EvE' policy.

So basically, nope they don't play eve and as such they suck at balancing it. To be honest, I think that if they are so inept as to be unable to keep their hands out of the proverbial cookie jar while they play their own game, they should just quit and make some impulse java game for some random indian mobile phone company. That way they can't **** up quite as much.


On a serious note, I have a quick question of logic for you guys.
If you had a car and said "I want to replace the engine casing with something better", once you do that, its replaced right? I mean its not like replacing it five times will do anything, you only have one engine casing in the first place so you can only do a direct swap. Shouldn't it be the same for the Polycarbons? I mean can't we start doing the same thing we do with Damage Controls? You can only have one of these fitted... Screw stacking, just say. One polycarbon may be fitted, one nanofibre may be fitted... I mean once you fit an overdrive, how would it make sense to fit a second one? Your already doing all that you can do to the ship. Its not difficult.

Another point to consider is that nanofibres and other low slot modules to do with modifying the ships hull/structure, aren't really modules, you don't just fir them, they don't have a hardpoint. They just straight out modify the ships hull and structure, they shouldn't take low slots. They should be permanate modifications with heavier negatives that what they have now. I should also be able to go into a ship fitting station and select a "modify hull" tab and select mass reduction, that reduces my structure hitpoints a chunk but gives me a reduced mass. Perhaps they could even allow you to use your LP to do this, where you get an enhanced better ratio of -mass/-hp. Naturally once its done on a ship, its not cheap to undo the change and scales up the more unique and valuable the ship is.

Raimo
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2008.10.24 07:27:00 - [2597]
 

Originally by: Miriyaka


So far the only people in favor of this change as-is are uninformed of its consequences on small ships, those unable to imagine its consequences on PVE and ship travel, and those who already fly battleships and think they should be able to kill anything that can keep a point on them. Nevermind that this will also make battleships even more tedious to move around, and will greatly reduce the number of ships in eve able to be tackled and killed, resulting in an unintended economic imbalance.

This is still far, far, far too much change at once.

All to fix.. what problem, exactly? CCP has still not clearly explained what the problem with speed is. Just that 'there is a problem'. I kill fast ships. I don't see a problem?


Excellent post Miriyaka.

S1r Minealot
Resilience.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.10.24 10:57:00 - [2598]
 

damn this reminds me i have to change my visa numbers so the stop billing me

Rania Evuksdiko
Posted - 2008.10.24 11:40:00 - [2599]
 


Einar Matveinen
Gallente
nXo
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2008.10.24 11:53:00 - [2600]
 

Edited by: Einar Matveinen on 24/10/2008 11:54:01
They said in some posts or some forums (don't remember exactly where) that nano-ships breaks the game's physics engine...ships that fly faster than all missiles, ships impossible to tackle or hit with any weapon in the game. Well, maybe this is a problem but i think the proposed solution is very very bad. They can do many things for solving these problems but changes now living in sissi are the worst solution possible. I have seen another MMOGs that were "improved" with massive changes, changes rejected by the majority of the player base...these games lose thousands of players after the changes were introduced, i hope that a better solution approved by the players were introduced in sissi soon, we need solutions for lag, need solutions for broken ship classes like interdictor and assault ships, we don't need certifications, ambulation or corp stores :(

keano69
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.24 11:58:00 - [2601]
 

it think ccp has taken it too far, too much in one, ok maybe first try scram change, see how it goes then try reduced speed a bit do it gradually instead of a massive several changes at once. i can understand why people are so upset having spent isk on snake sets and my other char included lots of skill points on things which are now useless. its not like other games where major patches just change gameplay a bit, this actually will make people think well great just wasted my subscription and time training all those skills.

this will make more and more people get in bs's to kill bs's. bs blobs, great. for all those who actually enjoy a challenge other than sitting there watching the f keys flash they will be reduced to targetting smaller targets. Personally its another nerf to help all the farming chinese ravens in 0.0 that contribute so much isk to iceland in their times of financial crisis. you would think that ccp would want to keep subscriptions and money not put them off. I personally know of 3 people that are quitting the game as these changes ellimatinate their preffered style of play, 0.0 small hac/recon roaming gang.

also and exact date would help so people know whether or ot it is worth paying out 60-90 mill on rigs that could be worthless tommorrow

starbug69
Posted - 2008.10.24 12:05:00 - [2602]
 

no nano ships = more alive farming ravens
more chinese farmers subscribing
more isk to iceland (frankly they badly need it)
best way to combat farming cloaking ravens is a bunch of hacs and recons. make them slower they are invincible.it will be cloak BS online. do they developers actually play eve? nano ships can be killed, people that fly them know just fine well how easy you can die, they are far from invicible as people say, neuts and webs?

as for diversity on the battlefield, yep the killboards are all full of the same ships.
then you have the market implications. BS costs will rise as more people will fly them, as the smaller ships will be less viable for the isk costs.

Locii
Posted - 2008.10.24 13:06:00 - [2603]
 

why oh why are you doing this??

i know something had to be done about speed.. but why not something simple.
my car has a speed limiter, why not just add a max speed taht a ship can go? why screw everything over with such a heavy handed botch job?

Poison Viper
Malevolent Intentions
Posted - 2008.10.24 15:32:00 - [2604]
 

Just wanna say goodbye to those who are leaving. Cool

So'Kar
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2008.10.24 15:58:00 - [2605]
 

<Copied From Bryg Philomena, cause the quote link kept logging me out>
Quote:
I suggest this: Introduce the warp scrambler effect on MWD's.

I know the arazu has warp scram range bonus, make sure the lachesis does too. This will make them viable ships in pvp again. After that dampening nerf, they are hardly ever flown, this will give them added viability on the battlefield.

Take dedicated drone ships (vexor, ishtar, domi, arbitrator, etc) and give them a bonus to drone speed. This will increase the viable tactic of using Warrior II's to help catch those speed kits.

Increase the speed of web drones, perhaps consider mediums and lights that will not incapacitate a nanoship, but perhaps bring that 7km ship to 4-5km/s using all 5 drones. Allowing a tackler to catch up. Consider T2 variants as well that have better speed. This will cause nanoships considerable pain, but allow them to kill off the offending drones as well, making it not so static as normal stasis webifiers.

Make small changes so that it becomes balanced over time, instead of ****ing everyone off by overnerfing it. This will also allow you to see where that fine line of balanced is. Use these suggestions that will make better counters that more people can use.



I think this would work amazingly well.

Warp Scram Bonus would help bring lachesis' and arazus back from the dead.

Increase to drone mwd speed (but preferably not orbit speed) would allow them to catch nanoes and either kill them, or web them. But would allow a nano to pop the drones. Making it so they arent a for sure win.

New web drones that even would drop a nanos speed 5-10% for smalls, and maybe 15-20% for mediums, would allow you to finally use them against anything other than a battleship.


Ursula Trieste
Posted - 2008.10.26 02:15:00 - [2606]
 


This is the most tedius thread I've ever tried to read through. Pages and pages of idiocy. CCP please lock this thread before this wall of text crashes your servers.

ugh

Koyama Ise
Caldari
Posted - 2008.10.26 06:50:00 - [2607]
 

Edited by: Koyama Ise on 26/10/2008 06:51:04
Ninja Edit, typo
Originally by: Ursula Trieste

This is the most tedius thread I've ever tried to read through. Pages and pages of idiocy. CCP please lock this thread before this wall of text crashes your servers.

ugh


Yeah I know I mean more people posting like Ursula Triestee over there will start to reduce the world's IQ.

Hsallie
Gallente
Rampaging Malicious Scoundrels
Posted - 2008.10.27 00:10:00 - [2608]
 

Originally by: DeJaView
I think CCP is being short sighted in the whole 'balancing' process of this game. TBQH, nano'ed fleet are pretty easily countered if you're just smart about your setups. It seems like CCP is trying to dumb down the game in the same manner that SWG was dumbed down to allow for younger players to understand the game faster.

I know of about 5 different counters for nano setups. The latest one that I've seen took out an overheated nano crow that jumped into a system (27km/s) using 2 ships and probably the most ingenious setup I've ever seen. Not to mention, neuts, nos's, & webs can also wipe out nano's very easily.

Is there a need to slow down battleships, cruisers, etc.? Absolutely. I guess the biggest issue is that I see is the fact that people aren't willing to spend the time to be inventive and dealing with issues on their own. "Nano's are overpowered" is heard all too much, but maybe CCP should think about this. Should a player with 5 million SP be able to take out a player with 50 million SP without even trying? Sure, sometimes, but on a regular basis that's just poor game mechanics in my opinion.


Sorry to be rude, but you are complaining that people are not inovative enough to counter Nano's, and then you cannot even think how a 50 mill SP char can take out a 5 mill SP char ?!??!....


On a side note, i do understand that alot of people have adapted to the nano thing, but most of you seem to think that this is the only viable pvp setups. What do you think people did before all the faction implants and rigs. I remember when if you could get a Hac to fly 1500m/s people thought you were hacking the game...

And yes back then Hacs was still able to compete on the battlefield, while they are tanked up. You also have to remember the change to webs which will make the hacs and other ships better able to tank larger ships.

Also to all the people whining about having spent time to train for speed and isk on expensive mods. Tough luck, i trained for missiles WAY back in 04 coz they were effective both in pvp and pve then, now they are mostly only used in pve. Was that a sad moment for me when that happened yes it was, but i got over it. That is just how it is, things change ... nothing you can do about it.

Reclaimer: I am not saying that the current state of the speed/web/scram nerf/boost are where it should be. But it just seems to me that forget to look at this from more than 1 angle.

mamolian
Cruoris Seraphim
Posted - 2008.10.27 00:57:00 - [2609]
 

Edited by: mamolian on 27/10/2008 01:08:49
Can't say I like the upcoming changes. Not one bit.

Murk Loar
O.W.N. Corp
OWN Alliance
Posted - 2008.10.27 00:57:00 - [2610]
 

It's taken so long to beat the bugs out of all these patches now that speed freaks on TQ no longer seem to be so much of an issue.People learnt how to (or have seemed to from where Im sitting) counter-act speed fits and adapted accordingly.

Just add the Orca to keep the carebears happy and leave TQ as is with a new log in screen..Genius!

(And no,Im not a nanofanboi.)


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