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Saxon Hawke
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
Posted - 2008.07.26 06:26:00 - [1]
 

It has been nearly a year now since Vorada Kuvakei, hero to the Intaki people and protector of the Placid Region, was unjustly expelled from our space. In that time, those who signed the order to exile him have done nothing to continue to work he began.

Now, with war waging and violence reaching out across the Universe, the Serpentis are once again seeking to profit by distributing dangerous and illicit drugs throughout the Placid Region.

At approximately 0500 hours Saturday (Eve standard time) I encountered a large Serpentis convoy in Intaki. I was unable to take the ships by myself and had to fall back for repairs. Upon my return, the convoy had fled.

If this message reaches Vorada, I emplore you to return to your people. In the meantime, I and the Intaki Liberation Front encourage all Intaki pilots loyal to their homeland to join us in keeping the system clear of Serpentis scum.

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2008.07.26 07:52:00 - [2]
 

Pilot ... you're quite right, war and violence are reaching out across the universe-- and your largest concern is a smuggling operation? Granted, I never use the things outside of my professional capacity, but there are far worse things in this universe than boosters.

In the interests of full disclosure: Aria Jenneth, Angel Cartel retainer. Pleased to meet you.

Haakelen
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.07.26 07:58:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
war and violence are reaching out across the universe-- and your largest concern is a smuggling operation? Granted, I never use the things outside of my professional capacity, but there are far worse things in this universe than boosters.



The problem arises with the violent coercion used to facilitate the smuggling.

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2008.07.26 08:17:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Haakelen
The problem arises with the violent coercion used to facilitate the smuggling.


And do you suppose that, to the degree to which such coercion is used, the Serpentis engage in it because they enjoy pushing people about? I'm sure a few of them do, but trust me, a smuggling operation runs much more smoothly and profitably if it can maintain the very lowest of profiles.

"Violent coercion" isn't very low-profile, even if you succeed in scaring people stiff. The Serpentis are first-rate smugglers; if I know this, so do they.

So, what could possibly cause an organization operating under a business model that works best when it keeps things nice and quiet to engage in the sort of behavior you describe? Unless you're badly overstating the case, pilot?

Saxon Hawke
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
Posted - 2008.07.26 08:37:00 - [5]
 

My first concern has and always will be the prosperity of the people who call Intaki home. If the Gallente and Caldari want to fight over the rest of the Universe they can have at it.

As to the economic models which the Serpentis choose to employ, I offer this: Regardless of what "goods" they move, their only commerce is in sorrow.

I want none of it in Intaki and hope her sons and daughters will return home and join the fight.

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2008.07.26 09:18:00 - [6]
 

For good or ill, Mr. Hawke, I think you'll find that sorrow is a commodity no one has to import. If the Serpentis are there, then a market exists for their wares. It might be more understandable to slaughter a few hundred thousand people if that would stop the flow, but it's much more likely that you'll slow it the way a pole thrust into the mud at the center of a river slows water.

I won't wish you luck. A capsuleer faced with conventional ships needs none. Enjoy your massacre, pilot.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2008.07.26 11:30:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Stitcher on 26/07/2008 11:30:43
Originally by: Saxon Hawke
My first concern has and always will be the prosperity of the people who call Intaki home. If the Gallente and Caldari want to fight over the rest of the Universe they can have at it.


Unfortunately, the "rest of the universe" also includes your home system. It's been declared as part of the warzone, Pilot. That means that the star system at least is open to legal annexation by the State. Indeed, many of my countrymen have already tried.

There are giants wrestling in your garden, pilot, but you're more concerned about the wasp that's picking at your donut.

Karanth
Gallente
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2008.07.26 12:28:00 - [8]
 

Those boosters ARE some very nice product, I have to say. I prefer the Mindflood boosters myself. Very relaxing.

Julianus Soter
Gallente
Moira.
Posted - 2008.07.26 12:40:00 - [9]
 

Interesting way of putting it, Verin. *chuckles*

Mr. Hawke... the Serpentis are a scourge on our society. And it's a noble effort to curtail their efforts. But this present war threatens much more than the Serpentis could ever touch. And it's time to unite against that threat.

Faraelle Brightman
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2008.07.26 15:27:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Saxon Hawke
My first concern has and always will be the prosperity of the people who call Intaki home. If the Gallente and Caldari want to fight over the rest of the Universe they can have at it.



*I* (for the last year and a half at least) call Intaki home, Mr. Hawke.

That is why I fight on the Gallente side now, given what some of the alternitives are.

Ayd'n d'Kuang
Intaki Liberation Front
Posted - 2008.07.26 19:22:00 - [11]
 

While fighting for the Federation against the invading Caldari might seem like a noble cause, it ultimately changes nothing. If the Federation retains control of the Placid region, will they increase security? No. And if the Caldari succeed in conquering the region, will they move to better the lives of its inhabitants? No.

You're all on a fool's errand. And Serpentis agents are using your factional conflict as a distraction. We choose to fight them (and other villians operating in the region) rather than our collectively used and misled brothers and sisters.

If we don't, they will continue to prosper while you all fail.

Faraelle Brightman
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2008.07.26 22:38:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Ayd'n d'Kuang
And if the Caldari succeed in conquering the region, will they move to better the lives of its inhabitants? No.



This much is correct...it's my belief based on (albiet incomplete) knowledge of what has transpired that comming under Caldari occupancy would be worse. I seldom credit the Federation with ant sort of compitence, but they are not a *threat*. If they can not bring the strength that we would like, it falls upon us. If someday the Federation becomes a genuine threat, well then positions will need to be reconsidered appropriately.

I would not say the Serpentis are less of a threat (and I still shoot at them where our paths cross), but there are few of us. I've been planetsite for a long while but here's how I understand it: when the public focuses on the looming issues surounding Caldari relations things like Intaki sogvernty and culture don't bring many people to the recruitment office. Placid Reborn has gone so far as supporting certian Caldari corporations when other allies have turned against them and that has cost us. It may be that the ties formed working with the milita will help renew relations and forge new ties that we sorely need so that we can be a real force in the area again.


Elex Akat
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.07.26 22:45:00 - [13]
 

I hate to say it but I agree with the squid. You complain about the terribly incompetent criminals that makeup the Serpentis Corp distributing boosters in Intaki while the Caldari are threatening to takeover the damn system. If you really cared about the Intaki people and indeed the rest fo the Federation you would join up and protect your homeland from the squids instead of complaining about incompetent, drug dealing pirates. For Luminaire's sake, strap on a kinetic and a thermal hardener and you'll be fine.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2008.07.26 22:59:00 - [14]
 

...."Squid"?


Elex Akat
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.07.26 23:37:00 - [15]
 

Oh come on now Sticher, don't tell em you've never been called that before.

Faraelle Brightman
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2008.07.27 02:03:00 - [16]
 

He may not have been, the slang seems to have emerged from within the militia. My understanding is that the root is an Ammarian word or a corruption of it - "calamari". Someone might have been trying to communicate the shorthand "cal/amarr" (Caldari and Ammar) over their neocom, the translator spit out "squid" and it stuck. I don't want to truck in racist banter but the implication is of a spineless sea creature. (The Jin-Mei are very fond of them as food and imported them, but the Ammar first harvested them for the natural ink they secrete.)

Read another way though (begin propagandist rhetoric here)...the Caldari have an ancient legand of a giant sea monster, similar to a squid, after which they named their Titan-class ship: Leviathan. Given the creature's supposed ability to wreck destruction and devour sea sailors, we may see whether the moniker is appropriate. Tibus Heth certiany strikes me as a rather Leviathan-like figure in any case.

Ayd'n d'Kuang
Intaki Liberation Front
Posted - 2008.07.27 02:13:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Elex Akat
You complain about the terribly incompetent criminals that makeup the Serpentis Corp distributing boosters in Intaki while the Caldari are threatening to takeover the damn system. If you really cared about the Intaki people and indeed the rest fo the Federation you would join up and protect your homeland from the squids instead of complaining about incompetent, drug dealing pirates. For Luminaire's sake, strap on a kinetic and a thermal hardener and you'll be fine.


All this talk of incompetence and, in the next breath, invoking Luminaire. You cannot be pleased with the way your home system has been sold out. And you can do nothing to change it.

CONCORD has sanctioned this conflict to keep the Empires fighting amongst themselves. For entertainment? Perhaps to keep themselves safe?

Unlike most Intakis, my family has spent generations rising to prominent levels in Gallente society. There is no people in the cluster more open or free. Call me unappreciative, or a prodigal son, but I cannot take up arms to support this. Even as I distrust the Caldari on so many levels. This "war" is a sham. A ruse.

And if things come to our doorsteps, then we will fight. Not to save some spot on a map, but for our homes and the homes of our people.

Vel Natore
Gallente
Veldspar International
Posted - 2008.07.27 04:52:00 - [18]
 

Unfortunatly with the factional warfare going on we don't have the resources to fight a war on so many fronts. We have the Caldari on our doorstep, and with the recent aid we've provided to our allies; the Minmatar we are too spread out to deal with the Serpentis..I too have had my dealings with them though and it does worry me.

I've heard someone say this before, that war is good for business, and I'm sure they are getting a profit from this war, and it will only be a matter of time until they use that profit against us.

All we can do is wait, and bide our time. Saxon, I don't belive that the Serpentis are going to be willing to make a move quite yet. I would however deliver the location of that collony to Federation Intel. I'm sure that would help in the long run.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2008.07.27 05:15:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Faraelle Brightman
He may not have been, the slang seems to have emerged from within the militia. My understanding is that the root is an Ammarian word or a corruption of it - "calamari". Someone might have been trying to communicate the shorthand "cal/amarr" (Caldari and Ammar) over their neocom, the translator spit out "squid" and it stuck. I don't want to truck in racist banter but the implication is of a spineless sea creature. (The Jin-Mei are very fond of them as food and imported them, but the Ammar first harvested them for the natural ink they secrete.)


It's not really a very good insult, is it? A play on a mistranslation? That's not even trying.

Saxon Hawke
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
Posted - 2008.07.27 07:06:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Stitcher
Edited by: Stitcher on 26/07/2008 11:30:43
There are giants wrestling in your garden, pilot, but you're more concerned about the wasp that's picking at your donut.


I guess it's a matter of perspective. Where you see giants wrestling in my garden, I see fleas fighting over who owns the dog they live on. It's academic really, as neither of the giants nor the fleas seem to have much interest in the people of Intaki. We're a system to be controlled and exploited. Be it burdened by yoke or bound by chains, the denial of basic liberties is the same.

The Intaki System is like fruit left too long on the vine, its potential lost to rot. And in its place grows an angry festered wound of hatred and remorse, which, unfortunately, many choose to fill with the narcotics supplied by the Serpentis.

I am a humble teacher who answered a call to defend my people. But I am no giant killer. Neither can I stamp out all the fleas that infest this universe.

What I can do is help fight the rot that blights my homeworld and be a beacon for those who would do the same. And so shall I do for the remainder of my days.

Faraelle Brightman
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2008.07.27 07:08:00 - [21]
 

Spend enough time on the nets and you'll see similarly created, even stranger memes spread like wildfire over less. University nets, doubly so.

P.S. - Jin-Mei squid fry is *spicy*. If it were flamable you could launch missiles with the stuff. But the thread reminded me I hadn't had any in a while and the last few days in space have involved way too many vending machine meals for my taste.

Faraelle Brightman
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2008.07.27 07:38:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Saxon Hawke
Be it burdened by yoke or bound by chains, the denial of basic liberties is the same.

The Intaki System is like fruit left too long on the vine, its potential lost to rot. And in its place grows an angry festered wound of hatred and remorse, which, unfortunately, many choose to fill with the narcotics supplied by the Serpentis.



Your opinion of planetside affairs is rather more pesamistic than mine. I was a bit surprised to learn that the local government is far from powerless when it comes to dealing with the Serpentis on the ground. (Compare to other settlements on the further reaches of the region where Serpentis all but write the laws.) The influence of certian Idama and their deciples (many of whom are involved in outreach work) is also a stabalizing factor. There are occasional scandals and high-profile raids to counter them...so were there on Bouryenes where I grew up. It is a strugle and a hard one, but not a hopeless one.

Their obvious weakness of course is controling the space lanes, the vacumn we capsuleers try to fill. But looking down at the planet from the heights of space and the quasi-imortality of the pod, it's easy to get carried away with the mandle of "hero".

Truthfully, during my time on Intaki I was contracted by Alastra to write a report on just this subject, on my qualifications as a humanities scholar and my then-position on the planet. (This was fortunate as Placid Reborn was having to do some serious internal reorginization at the time). Alas it's not something that was released for open publication.

You speek of chains and yokes, but under the Federation such things tend to be more of a personal nature than an instutional one, I've seen.

Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2008.07.27 10:47:00 - [23]
 

Should the Vorada and the Illoren resurface, they can count on the support of the Imperative.

BloodBird
Nova Foundry
Posted - 2008.07.27 14:11:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Saxon Hawke
Originally by: Stitcher
Edited by: Stitcher on 26/07/2008 11:30:43
There are giants wrestling in your garden, pilot, but you're more concerned about the wasp that's picking at your donut.


I guess it's a matter of perspective. Where you see giants wrestling in my garden, I see fleas fighting over who owns the dog they live on. It's academic really, as neither of the giants nor the fleas seem to have much interest in the people of Intaki. We're a system to be controlled and exploited. Be it burdened by yoke or bound by chains, the denial of basic liberties is the same.


Where you see fleas, I see a threat. Take all the rights and liberties the Intaki enjoy right now and imagine how they would be altered if the State should manage to annex our world.

The Serpentis IS a threat, I agree on that, please DO kill them all wherever you find them; but don't be naive enough to think that a State occupation of our world will have little concequenses.

The homeworld IS in peril now, and it would be in your best interest, as it is in mine, to see that threat removed.

Don't just brush off the danger because it's not yet close to home, pilot. Two systems have allready fallen to the facist regime and I doubht the inhabitants of the planets in those systems are to happy with their new overlords.

The Minmatar land to retrieve slaves and possible exterminate the people when they take systems from the Amarr, I wonder what the Caldari would do to our world if they got their hands on it.

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2008.07.27 14:44:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: BloodBird
The Minmatar land to retrieve slaves and possible exterminate the people when they take systems from the Amarr, I wonder what the Caldari would do to our world if they got their hands on it.


Well, not that this is really any of my business, but ...

... I wouldn't worry. At least for the Intaki, I wouldn't. The Intaki culture has long been recognized as dissimilar from those of the rest of the Gallente, and there's been a secessionist movement there for quite some time. It's been observed that the Intaki actually have more in common culturally with the Achura than with the other Federal races.

Mordu's Legion was made up of Intaki, remember, and is still made up of their descendants-- and they're traditionally granted Caldari citizenship upon retirement.

That being the case, many Caldari view the Intaki as kindred spirits, of a sort-- a strong, traditional culture that has been tragically unable to get out from under the Gallentean thumb.

What's more, whatever his own personal views on the subject, Heth will not be committing any atrocities upon the Intaki: to do so would be to risk not only alienating the Legion, but bringing the Intaki Syndicate into the war.

Heth might look like a villain to the Gallente, but to the Caldari he's a hero, and he can't afford to stop looking like one. The moment his support falters, you can bet there's going to be a radical rethinking of this whole "Dictator" idea-- and considering the general Caldari sympathy for the Intaki, treating them harshly would be A Bad Move in terms of public support.

Let's keep the war rhetoric within the domain of realism, rather than holodrama, shall we? Heth is a human being, not some pasteboard caricature of villainy, and even if he were he'd not be stupid enough to vent his hate on the Intaki.

BloodBird
Nova Foundry
Posted - 2008.07.27 15:37:00 - [26]
 

Thanks for adressing, in better words, what I allready knew Aria. I was however, wondering aloud what the effects of State occupation of Intaki might be, after all; if I wondered about it in my mind, Mr. Hawke would not be able to read it here, he is no mind-reader after all.

The problem however is that he is a separatist. He would likely nod agreeingly to your "under the Federal tumb" notion, as he LIKES to view the Federation as something bad we need escape from.

In fact, the reason his view is in the minority is that the vast majority of Intaki is fairly happy with how things are. We could do with alot better military security, but this is something be have asked for for years. It has still not happened, and is a reason our planet is still in a low-security location, instead of a high-security one.

Now, this fact is on of the greatest reasons I would like him to realize where I'm standing. When I ask "Imagine the things we have NOW and then see them as they might be if the State takes over" I'm trying to make him realize even most Intaki will fight for the Federation in this war, because the treat to our current rights and freedoms are very much real.

On the other hand, his eagerness to oppose the Serpentis scum and throw wrenches into their cogs is an effort I very much agree on and commend him for doing. Was it not for this war, and my current in-ability to return to space, I would be off killing them myself, for obvious reasons.

I'm not afraid that Heth will blow his "good-guy" image in the state, by directly harming a spesific planet. I'm worried that the more eagerly racist elements of the Caldari will ravage what is "their property" if they assume power, I'm afraid for the sake of my people's safety, when I think of some of the things they think of us, and some have made their rather limited views public on this summit.

Hell, some Caldari seem to treat anyone in the Federation like "Gallente", cutting all with the same knife and so on, I wonder what they do to the people in Odamia and Covryn right now...

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2008.07.27 16:47:00 - [27]
 

Oh, I understood the thrust of your concerns, BloodBird. What I was getting at is that mistreatment of Intaki, and particularly the Intaki homeworld, is unlikely, if only because even permitting, much less ordering, mistreatment of Intaki would be a threat to Caldari relations with Mordu's Legion. A few Caldari may even think they're coming in as liberating heroes, a notion I'm sure the Intaki will swiftly disabuse them of.

As for how people are being treated elsewhere ... well, soldiers are soldiers, but I think the professionalism of Caldari security forces will be at least as much a deterrent to abuse as the Gallentean addiction to a heroic self-image. After all, it's easy for a human to morally justify, in his own mind, abuse of an enemy when that enemy has, again in his own mind, done something unforgivable. So I can easily see Gallentean troops getting a little, shall we say, high-handed.

Caldari forces, on the other hand, are professionals first and foremost, and a professional doesn't let himself lose control. A professional does, however, follow orders to the letter, so, if there's some institutionalized program of abuse, they'll certainly carry it out. At this point, however, such a program would seem to fit under the heading of "pointless cruelty" and "a waste of public goodwill."

While the Caldari don't suffer the Gallente addiction to heroism, neither do they care to view themselves as needlessly harsh. They've had their revenge; Caldari Prime is under Caldari occupation once more. The rest of this is simply war, and should be handled cleanly.

So, even if the Intaki are indeed painted with the same brush as other citizens of the Federation, I wouldn't worry overly. "It's wrong" is a much easier barrier for a human psychology to overcome than "It just isn't done," so I'd worry more about Caldari citizens under occupation, assuming that ever happens, than about the Intaki.

Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2008.07.27 16:48:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: BloodBird
Hell, some Caldari seem to treat anyone in the Federation like "Gallente", cutting all with the same knife and so on, I wonder what they do to the people in Odamia and Covryn right now...

While this will support the argument that those systems are strategically worthless, do Odamia or Covryn actually have populations in them besides Federation military outpost?
Most of the Caldari corporate assets located in Federation space are protected from liberation by CONCORD.

BloodBird
Nova Foundry
Posted - 2008.07.27 17:55:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: BloodBird on 27/07/2008 17:56:53
Originally by: Dex Nederland
Originally by: BloodBird
Hell, some Caldari seem to treat anyone in the Federation like "Gallente", cutting all with the same knife and so on, I wonder what they do to the people in Odamia and Covryn right now...

While this will support the argument that those systems are strategically worthless, do Odamia or Covryn actually have populations in them besides Federation military outpost?
Most of the Caldari corporate assets located in Federation space are protected from liberation by CONCORD.


To be honest I don't know. I can't remember spending time in said systems, if I have ever even been there, so I wouldn't know. However, by saying that I wonder what happends to the people there, I am actually worried about what the Caldari forces might do to any Federation controlled planets, IF there is anyone there at all. If not, the point goes more mute, bar the obvious problem of who took it from who.

Still, this entire debate is on members of the Caldari militia (who have the numbers AND the advantage right now) crying out for the null-sec alliances to come save them. It's weak, in all meanings of the word, to scream for help when your fully able to help yourself fix your own problems.

To Stitcher, I think it's a tad to much to argue the right to beg for help because there is a tower in black Rise under the control of the FDU, when, in all other instances, the FDU and the Federation at large have lost 2 systems allready.

Point being, if you can take our systems, then removing the danger to your own should not be to hard... and incidentaly this is what the State PROTECTORATE was meant to do from the start.

...on the other hand, the Federal DEFENCE union's primary goal should really be to re-take those systems before anything else, but they don't; they place towers in State space...

Sometimes I wonder what the militia is actually doing, bar racking up the kill-count. This is also something the Protectrate has begun catching up on recently, I believe, so the advantage in higher kill vs death ratio might be lost soon.

At the end of the day my problem remains; A system I care about more than any other, that is definitly populated, is 'available' as it was, for taking. IF it falls, I guess I might get to see firsthand if Caldari soldiers are as 'proffesional' as Aria claims.

On a final note: Despite their dutyfull service and all that, I don't think it's fair to claim a low likelyhood of Caldari soldiers acting on their possible hatred for the Federation. Granted, a planet like, say, Gallente Prime might see a diffrent treatment than my own home, but that don't exempt Caldari soldiers from their humanity. And as humans, they carry flaws, like hatred.

Same would go for any Federal marine, but the same argument Aria used will kick in here: the likelyhood a Caldari soldier will act on his emotions are just as high as any Gallente one. The fact most Federal soldiers likely view themselves 'the good guys' as opposed to all others possibly being 'bad' also means they would conform to a level of honour in their actions. After all, it's hard to remain the 'good guys' if you subject your foe to needless suffering. Sadly, same idea of 'good' and 'bad' people might lead some to justify their actions in such a way. This sadly, is human nature, and goes for all involved, regardless of nation.

I think we all have reason to wonder what reports will result in any Federation annextion of a Caldari world, and vice versa. Time will probably tell, though I hope not.

ADDITION: Sorry, but for a moment I missplaced what tread I was in. Some of the above was in refference to the tread made by mr. Elsyn, regarding the FDU tower in Black Rise.

Faraelle Brightman
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2008.07.27 18:22:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Dex Nederland
Originally by: BloodBird
Hell, some Caldari seem to treat anyone in the Federation like "Gallente", cutting all with the same knife and so on, I wonder what they do to the people in Odamia and Covryn right now...

While this will support the argument that those systems are strategically worthless, do Odamia or Covryn actually have populations in them besides Federation military outpost?
Most of the Caldari corporate assets located in Federation space are protected from liberation by CONCORD.


Odamia is remote even by Placid standards, the planets are mostly too cold to support settlements and it lacks even orbiting stations...it's mostly mining outposts and maybe Serpentis ratholes.

Covryn is a different story. It's a route in and out of the high security hub in Stacmon, a few jumps from Intaki proper. The 4th plannet, if I recall, has some small settlements, mostly underground owing to the frigid climate..


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