open All Channels
seplocked Ships and Modules
blankseplocked Assault Frigates and the Speed Changes
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

Berendas
Posted - 2008.07.26 05:40:00 - [1]
 

Hey all, I've read up on the coming changes, and do be honest I'm not quite sure what to make of them. However, I have heard talk that this adjustment could be a positive turn for Assault Ships. I haven't gone too in depth with my analysis of the changes yet, so I would like to open to floor to you all do discuss what the speed changes could mean for this fairly overlooked class of ships.

Please, state your opinions, findings, ect. on anything pertaining to Assault Ships and the coming changes. I look forward to your responses.

Cheers,
Berendas Very Happy

Slade Hoo
Amarr
Retired Gunslingers
Posted - 2008.07.26 05:47:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Slade Hoo on 26/07/2008 05:48:30
post-patch: be able to fly into web range with assault ships without getting webbed to hell and killed.
fit scrambler+ AB, orbit at your desired weapon range (fly very close to make cruiser with turrets not hit you). gank and tank the **** out of your opponent ;-) cruisers wont track you well and are slower than you, frigates have less damage and less tank but might be faster than you.

Zarnak Wulf
Posted - 2008.07.26 05:47:00 - [3]
 

Pros:
Speed increase by quite a bit. 1100-2100m/s per the chart to 2250-2750m/s after the change. Web resistance for all ships. The AF traditionally charges in and fights or dies. Webs at 90% = they get hit and die. Webs at 50% - 60% = more tracking issues for opponents. There's more options too. Is your target large ships? Fit an AB and be scrambler proof.

Cons:
I still don't like the fact that a fourth bonus is eaten up w/ t2 resistances that should be understood.

Kaito Kurusaki
Federal Defence Union
Posted - 2008.07.26 05:53:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Kaito Kurusaki on 26/07/2008 06:02:56
Edited by: Kaito Kurusaki on 26/07/2008 05:53:37
Assualt ships will be faster than they are now. Added to that, AB + scrambler + web means that anything that gets into their range is not easely getting out of it. Only intys, EAS or T1 frigates will have a faster AB speed I think. And those arn't the biggest threat to a AS in the first place.

It is too difficult to dictate the range with an AS, which this patch has potential to fix. I can see them getting very profitable close range heavy tacklers. Have someone in you gang fit a couple tracking disrupters and you get a mean close range speed tank, even when you get hit by the web. Intys will remain as the long range taclers.

Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.07.26 06:10:00 - [5]
 

The changes to web aside, AF's will be popular again because people will want speed and maneuverability, so they'll turn to frigates...like they should have in the beginning.

Derek Sigres
Posted - 2008.07.26 07:38:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
The changes to web aside, AF's will be popular again because people will want speed and maneuverability, so they'll turn to frigates...like they should have in the beginning.


I LOVE AF's. I really do. I never really thought they were severely broken - just far to pricy for the performance they gave. I might actually have a reason to finish training minmitar Frig V and Amarr Frig V now.

And I've generally been of the opinion that many AF's are better suited to AB's than MWD's but no one would ever listen. Now there won't be much of an argument for the MWD.

Dzajic
Gallente
Posted - 2008.07.26 07:40:00 - [7]
 

AFs and blasterboats should still receive a bonus to AB effectiveness.

Derek Sigres
Posted - 2008.07.26 07:50:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Dzajic
AFs and blasterboats should still receive a bonus to AB effectiveness.


I guess it depends - the issue with AB verus MWD in all reality wasn't about going fast enough to evade damage (unless you were silly), it was the fact that a BATTLESHIP with MWD fitted could just plain outrun most AF's with AB's installed (Even FANCY deadspace AB's).

MWD's will still be the "burn in close as fast as possible" module as they always have been - AB's will simply be looked at more charitably with regards to ships that might want to be hard to hit.

Siddy
Minmatar
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.07.26 07:54:00 - [9]
 

AFs are still outdone by mere stabber in everything.


Minsuki
Metafarmers
Posted - 2008.07.26 07:56:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Minsuki on 26/07/2008 08:02:29
Blaster Harpy is gonna be a beast now. Speed, firepower, and your choice between serious tackle with 9km scram and web with one midslot left to tank, or, two slots to tank and the 9km scram acting as a web.

Same for jaguar, really.

Wolf and most especially the enyo get a nice little buff with the new 9km scram and speed.

Hawk, retribution and vengeance still suck.

Derek Sigres
Posted - 2008.07.26 07:58:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Siddy
AFs are still outdone by mere stabber in everything.




I don't particularly care if a cruiser outperforms a t2 frigate as a general on paper fact. If the price of an AF was substantially lower then the issue would be moot in my book. I've long harped on a simple solution to the AF that I won't sully this thread with, and it doesn't involve making the AF better at the sort of things cruisers do well, it involves making the AF good at that whole "assault" thing (especially versus those squishy recons or those slugginst battleships).

Trouble has always been a cruiser can do the exact same things an AF can in any situation you care to measure (other than pod sniping now that I thinka bout it) for a fraction of the cost.

Tranquil Hegemony
Calm Horizons Outfit
Posted - 2008.07.26 08:42:00 - [12]
 

poor old Retribution...never gets any luvin'

Zanarkus
Amarr
Pelennor Swarm
G00DFELLAS
Posted - 2008.07.26 10:10:00 - [13]
 

problem is the retribution still only has 1 mid. it will forever be useless in tis role as a heavy tackler because of this. and until it gets changed i will not be flying one...

vengeance just... well... its made of fail, its trying to be something its not, and as the roles of an ASSAULT frigate goes its completely failed to meet its criteria.

im amarr, with assaults lvl5 and i dont fly either, simply because they fail at their roles. end of story.

Emperor Ryan
Amarr
The Illuminatii
Mildly Intoxicated
Posted - 2008.07.26 12:00:00 - [14]
 

Yeah the Amarr Assult frigs really do SUCK. no role but missions

Zarnak Wulf
Posted - 2008.07.26 12:43:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Siddy
AFs are still outdone by mere stabber in everything.




Let's take the wolf w/ that test. Currently I zoom in w/ MWD, orbit at 500m....and see whose skills are best. I'm warp scrambled and webbed. Speed is anemic. Can my tank and DPS outlast his? I'm a bit hard to hit w/ a 33 signature radius.

Now I'm up to 75% faster. My ship goes 700m/s w/ an AB currently- guestimate 1225m/s after the "nerf." If you aply one web in the "new world order" I will still orbit the enemy cruiser at 500m/s with a miniscule signature radius. I say the odds in my favor just increased significantly.

Vorga Gar
Posted - 2008.07.26 13:44:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Zanarkus
problem is the retribution still only has 1 mid. it will forever be useless in tis role as a heavy tackler because of this. and until it gets changed i will not be flying one...

vengeance just... well... its made of fail, its trying to be something its not, and as the roles of an ASSAULT frigate goes its completely failed to meet its criteria.

im amarr, with assaults lvl5 and i dont fly either, simply because they fail at their roles. end of story.


Uhm, the Retribution never was intended as a heavy tackler, it's just there to do very heavy damage (on a frigate scale, that is).

Ess Erbe
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.07.26 13:44:00 - [17]
 

Still need a proper fourth bonus.

Berendas
Posted - 2008.07.26 14:38:00 - [18]
 

I'm loving all this feedback, and for the most part it seems that Assault Frigates will benefit from these changes. Now I may be able to buy and Enyo for something more than looks :]

Machiko Ruhn
Posted - 2008.07.26 14:45:00 - [19]
 

Yeah, the amarrian ones wont be helped at all with tackling by this change, BUT, hell that's not news, they were never heavy tacklers to begin with, they're heart-breakers and name takers. Now they wont be insta-fragged by every ****** in a cruiser who fits a web, meaning they can do their job of actually KILLING things much better.


Now all we lack is that pesky fourth bonus.... I want an ROF bonus on my retri, ultra-sexy gold/red mini zealot anyone? Twisted Evil

Nalena Arlath
Posted - 2008.07.26 16:32:00 - [20]
 

I'm in love with my Retribution, but as said, it's not a solo PvP ship at all, and it's not a tackler.

It needs to have a gang to be useful, but it has pretty good firepower using T2 pulses w/scorches, as well as good optimal ranges with the range bonus. More so if you rig it.

But, the single med slot really is a huge drawback, for any ship really. If they added just 1 more med slot to the Retri, it would be an awesome ship without question.

More on topic, I'm all in favour of these comming changes from an AF perspective. It will, hopefully, make non-nano ships a more viable option for small gangs.

Dheorl
Surge.
Posted - 2008.07.26 17:30:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Siddy
AFs are still outdone by mere stabber in everything.




Theres more cruisers an AF will stand a chance against than a stabber.

Berendas
Posted - 2008.07.27 00:10:00 - [22]
 

I'm not too familiar with the details on ships outside of Amarr or Gallente. Which race's Assault Frigates will benefit the most from these changes?

I think the Ishkur will do alright since its a drone based ship and would do ok with rails, and the Enyo only has 2 mids, so using a 7500m scram to also slow people down sounds like a change in its favor. The 2 Amarr AF's probably won't change much since they aren't really built to fit a good tackle. Any thoughts on Caldari/Minmatar AF's?

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2008.07.27 00:19:00 - [23]
 

I also am optimistic for these changes, and look forward to flying my AF's again...

Oh wait, I fly Amarr :P boo

Buff the Retribution!

4/2/5
bonuses:
cap use / RoF
damage / optimal

TBH i'd settle for the RoF bonus though, I like being the only ship in the game with 5/1/5 slot layout. It's very Amarr - midslots are for noobs LaughingCool. I don't even mind the last 'utility' highslot - with lowend guns you can cram a Nos in there for more cap, and with higher-end guns you can just offline the nos to act as a heatsink.
2nd mid would be great because after these changes it'd actually be a pretty capable solo ship with just AB/MWD + Scrambler

Mortuus
Minmatar
Divine Power.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.07.27 00:20:00 - [24]
 

Jag was good already, not great but good. After the changes it will be a beast of a ship. MWD into range, scramble, web, orbit slowly under the enemies guns.

Zarnak Wulf
Posted - 2008.07.27 00:27:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Berendas
I'm not too familiar with the details on ships outside of Amarr or Gallente. Which race's Assault Frigates will benefit the most from these changes?

I think the Ishkur will do alright since its a drone based ship and would do ok with rails, and the Enyo only has 2 mids, so using a 7500m scram to also slow people down sounds like a change in its favor. The 2 Amarr AF's probably won't change much since they aren't really built to fit a good tackle. Any thoughts on Caldari/Minmatar AF's?


The jaguar is designed to be a small sniper boat. Expect more speed for it. The wolf is what I'm excited about. I fought a Thorax recently. I got it into structure while I was still in armor. He came back and won the fight; albeit after defecating on himself. I was stuck orbiting him at 900m at 36.9m/s due to his webber. The wolf's signature radius is only 33m. With an afterburner attached and the new rules......who knows? If I can maintain a transversal speed of 440m/s around a thorax though- AB w/ one web on me I'm guestimating......the tracking guide says w/ full skills the Thorax can't hit me under 5km.....and at best only has a 10% chance of hitting me that close. Now that doesn't take into effect drones, or that my transversal speed probably won't always be that high, or if he has a nuet, or.....you get the point. (BTW- Thorax had a 40% chance of hitting me at 1km before.....)

Mortuus
Minmatar
Divine Power.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.07.27 00:34:00 - [26]
 

The reason I am keen on the Jag, is it can fit a nice shield buffer that will recharge once I am under the enemy guns. That and it puts out more DPS than an equally adept Wolf.

I'm looking at 3x 150mm t2, 1x rocket, 1x mwd, 9km scram, web, MSE, 3x Gyro t2. Can MWD and run one mod forever, runs it all for about 4min or so. Long enough.

170ish DPS with EMP.

Zarnak Wulf
Posted - 2008.07.27 00:44:00 - [27]
 

My preferred wolf setup gets 192 DPS w/ Barrage (Barrage and EMP are equal on EFT). Yes, I use it all the time in combat, not just EFT. Against a Thorax I'll even load Hail. 241 DPS and 277DPS if overheated. Mean little thing.

Mortuus
Minmatar
Divine Power.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.07.27 00:49:00 - [28]
 

Oh yea, my fit is the same one I used pre-nano age, and it works wonders. Dual Gyro wolf + plate and offlined rep is alright. But I prefer having something that fixes itself while I am running from the hornets nest I stirred up.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.07.27 03:38:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Mortuus
Oh yea, my fit is the same one I used pre-nano age, and it works wonders. Dual Gyro wolf + plate and offlined rep is alright. But I prefer having something that fixes itself while I am running from the hornets nest I stirred up.


Easy. Worked for me very well for ganking missile ships (hello sig radius), now it's going to be nice for ganking nubbins in turret ships too.

4x150mm AC II
Rocket Launcher II

1MN AB (deadspace or best named)
warp scrambler II

SAR (deadspace or best named)
400mm RT
emergency damage control (T2 wont fit)
Gyrostab II

rof rig + damage rig

optionally, halo set ;)

Derek Sigres
Posted - 2008.07.27 09:01:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Zarnak Wulf
My preferred wolf setup gets 192 DPS w/ Barrage (Barrage and EMP are equal on EFT). Yes, I use it all the time in combat, not just EFT. Against a Thorax I'll even load Hail. 241 DPS and 277DPS if overheated. Mean little thing.


I love the wolf and I'm sorely tempted to actually train Minnie Frigate V and the gun skills (I already have the support skills for the most part). As of right now it's one of the best AF's out there and one of the few that has any real merit on the battlefield.


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only