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Ignatious Mei
Posted - 2008.07.25 16:56:00 - [1]
 

I'll admit it. I was "kind of" a nano pilot. I had a nano'd Ishtar but I still spent the majority of my time in a Domi. 2nd most flown ship was the megathron and the brutix. I am really pretty worried about this new MWD nerf. With warp disruptor now shutting down MWD's how are blaster boats going to get/stay in range? I just don't think a after burner is going to cut it when you have to be inside of 5k do deal decent damage.

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2008.07.25 16:57:00 - [2]
 

I'm worried about our entire race.

Yeah. Sorry.

Akyla
Bears Inc
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:00:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Ignatious Mei
I'll admit it. I was "kind of" a nano pilot. I had a nano'd Ishtar but I still spent the majority of my time in a Domi. 2nd most flown ship was the megathron and the brutix. I am really pretty worried about this new MWD nerf. With warp disruptor now shutting down MWD's how are blaster boats going to get/stay in range? I just don't think a after burner is going to cut it when you have to be inside of 5k do deal decent damage.


Warp Scrambler, not Warp Disruptor.

The difference is huge.

darkmancer
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:03:00 - [4]
 

It's a change to scramblers not diruptors only and their range is tiny, by the time the effect hits you you'll already be in range to web the target.

Besides it not like a web where you lose all your speed plus you'll have plenty of momentum to reach the target.

Ignatious Mei
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:05:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Akyla
Originally by: Ignatious Mei
I'll admit it. I was "kind of" a nano pilot. I had a nano'd Ishtar but I still spent the majority of my time in a Domi. 2nd most flown ship was the megathron and the brutix. I am really pretty worried about this new MWD nerf. With warp disruptor now shutting down MWD's how are blaster boats going to get/stay in range? I just don't think a after burner is going to cut it when you have to be inside of 5k do deal decent damage.


Warp Scrambler, not Warp Disruptor.

The difference is huge.


Indeed, I thought it was both. Thanks for pointing that out but I still see it being a issue. With a MWD if you got webbed you would at least still get a decent speed towards a target. Now a scram+web will pretty much keep you from getting inside 10k. Sure, you can fit a afterburner but a web will more or less make that pretty pointless.

Crae Matreki
Blackstar Enterprises
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:15:00 - [6]
 

The MWD will still be more than enough to get you into range, and the web nerf means your speed won't drop off so quickly, either. We managed before everything went nano, and we'll manage afterwards. Very Happy

Jordan Musgrat
Convergent
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:16:00 - [7]
 

The Megathron is affected the least out of all blaster boats actually. Deimos is much worse, and the blaster ranis will be simply unflyable. With the Mega, at least you can fit a scram and web with your mwd, stop your target's speed completely, and slide into void range. With smaller ships, the regular point/web setup gets turned into almost a dual web + point setup, which means you die really fast.

Ignatious Mei
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:17:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Crae Matreki
The MWD will still be more than enough to get you into range, and the web nerf means your speed won't drop off so quickly, either. We managed before everything went nano, and we'll manage afterwards. Very Happy


Aye, but before everything went nano warp scrams were not shutting off MWD's :)

Wannabehero
Wayward Ventures
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:22:00 - [9]
 

Though we can't be sure until monday when we can test it on sisi, I'm pretty sure that the warp scram will not instantly shut down your MWD and cut all your speed. More likely, it will prevent reactivation of the MWD, allowing you the time before the 10sec cycle ends to close range, and you will still have to bleed off the intertia once it does shut down.

The result of this will be that yes, you get hit by a warp scram and are unable to reactivate your MWD, but you will still coast right in on your target, which you will have webbed of course. You will still be able to get right up on in someones face under this system.

The big change with this is that targets have more options to get back out of range once you close on them. If you don't have a scram fitted and they have an MWD, then they will be able to open up range on you fairly quickly with the new weaker webs. If they have an AB, you have an MWD, and you both have scrams, then they will also maintain a speed advantage (given similar base velocities).

This new system means that close range combat is no longer and on/off proposition, webs and MWD's no longer ensure that once in close range you are stuck there. This is a wonderful change to eve combat. More potential and viable setups = more fun for everyone.

Ignatious Mei
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:22:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Jordan Musgrat
The Megathron is affected the least out of all blaster boats actually. Deimos is much worse, and the blaster ranis will be simply unflyable. With the Mega, at least you can fit a scram and web with your mwd, stop your target's speed completely, and slide into void range. With smaller ships, the regular point/web setup gets turned into almost a dual web + point setup, which means you die really fast.


Thats kind of odd because I was thinking the deimos might actually be a bit better off now. It can fit a Afterburner and with decent skills still get up to about 600ms.

Ignatious Mei
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:25:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Wannabehero
Though we can't be sure until monday when we can test it on sisi, I'm pretty sure that the warp scram will not instantly shut down your MWD and cut all your speed. More likely, it will prevent reactivation of the MWD, allowing you the time before the 10sec cycle ends to close range, and you will still have to bleed off the intertia once it does shut down.

The result of this will be that yes, you get hit by a warp scram and are unable to reactivate your MWD, but you will still coast right in on your target, which you will have webbed of course. You will still be able to get right up on in someones face under this system.

The big change with this is that targets have more options to get back out of range once you close on them. If you don't have a scram fitted and they have an MWD, then they will be able to open up range on you fairly quickly with the new weaker webs. If they have an AB, you have an MWD, and you both have scrams, then they will also maintain a speed advantage (given similar base velocities).

This new system means that close range combat is no longer and on/off proposition, webs and MWD's no longer ensure that once in close range you are stuck there. This is a wonderful change to eve combat. More potential and viable setups = more fun for everyone.


I agree that more setups is definitely good however...I'm worried that 90 percent of the ships your going to see on the battlefield now are going to be domi's and torp ravens. Without being able to stay in range a blaster boat is pretty worthless.

Trojanman190
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:27:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Ignatious Mei
Originally by: Jordan Musgrat
The Megathron is affected the least out of all blaster boats actually. Deimos is much worse, and the blaster ranis will be simply unflyable. With the Mega, at least you can fit a scram and web with your mwd, stop your target's speed completely, and slide into void range. With smaller ships, the regular point/web setup gets turned into almost a dual web + point setup, which means you die really fast.


Thats kind of odd because I was thinking the deimos might actually be a bit better off now. It can fit a Afterburner and with decent skills still get up to about 600ms.


But a web will still buy your ab at 200m/s

Anubis Hatak
No Trademark
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:27:00 - [13]
 

People should really consider that not everyone is willing to sacrifice a midslot for a 9km scram. I'd much rather have a 24km disruptor, what happens when someone jumps through the gate? If you are lucky they decloak next to you but 90% of the time they will be way too far for your 9km scram to work.

In larger gangs yes, there may be a ship dedicated to shutting off your MWD, in which case your deimos/taranis would have to run/stay and die anyway, but really I don't think many people are going to use them over the 24km... especially amarr/caldari pilots.

Transmaniacon
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:28:00 - [14]
 

Is the warp scrambler keeping its original role, or is it solely for killing MWDs?

Trojanman190
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:29:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Ignatious Mei
Originally by: Wannabehero
Though we can't be sure until monday when we can test it on sisi, I'm pretty sure that the warp scram will not instantly shut down your MWD and cut all your speed. More likely, it will prevent reactivation of the MWD, allowing you the time before the 10sec cycle ends to close range, and you will still have to bleed off the intertia once it does shut down.

The result of this will be that yes, you get hit by a warp scram and are unable to reactivate your MWD, but you will still coast right in on your target, which you will have webbed of course. You will still be able to get right up on in someones face under this system.

The big change with this is that targets have more options to get back out of range once you close on them. If you don't have a scram fitted and they have an MWD, then they will be able to open up range on you fairly quickly with the new weaker webs. If they have an AB, you have an MWD, and you both have scrams, then they will also maintain a speed advantage (given similar base velocities).

This new system means that close range combat is no longer and on/off proposition, webs and MWD's no longer ensure that once in close range you are stuck there. This is a wonderful change to eve combat. More potential and viable setups = more fun for everyone.


I agree that more setups is definitely good however...I'm worried that 90 percent of the ships your going to see on the battlefield now are going to be domi's and torp ravens. Without being able to stay in range a blaster boat is pretty worthless.


Amar ships are gona be pretty sweet with a gang mate.... huge optimal and damage... mmmm good.


Btw i just got a dread guristas warp scrambler, maybe now ill be able to get rid of it for more than a million isk.

Troubadour
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:33:00 - [16]
 

Arazu/Lach with recon 4 or 5 will have about 18-22km range with a faction scram, some of which are pretty cheap, around 2-5mil for a DG (for now). Of course with overloading, that is going to make that scram go farther. Let's not even talk about the chance of some jerk running around with an arazu packing an officer scram (yes you can fit some to arazu/lach).

Arazu will be the king of recons again, and rapier/huginn will be meh at best.

(also, some of the inties and the Keres has bonus to scram/distuptor range, although not as significant as the gallente recon class)

Ignatious Mei
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:36:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Troubadour
Arazu/Lach with recon 4 or 5 will have about 18-22km range with a faction scram, some of which are pretty cheap, around 2-5mil for a DG (for now). Of course with overloading, that is going to make that scram go farther. Let's not even talk about the chance of some jerk running around with an arazu packing an officer scram (yes you can fit some to arazu/lach).

Arazu will be the king of recons again, and rapier/huginn will be meh at best.

(also, some of the inties and the Keres has bonus to scram/distuptor range, although not as significant as the gallente recon class)


I have also been thinking about this. I am considering training the skills for a recon now that my ishtar will be more or less worthless. Would mean I didnt waste training gal cruiser to 5.

Euriti
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:50:00 - [18]
 

RIP Ranis/Brutix/Thorax/Deimos and the minmatar race.

All hail our missile/laser overlords

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:51:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Euriti
RIP Ranis/Brutix/Thorax/Deimos and the minmatar race.

All hail our missile/laser overlords


Ha. I already guessed this was going to happen, amarr cruiser 5 finishes in 3 days. Screw my 25m SP in minmatar ships, I didn't want it anyway.

Arcon Telf
Gallente
N0 APOLOGY
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:52:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Troubadour
Arazu/Lach with recon 4 or 5 will have about 18-22km range with a faction scram, some of which are pretty cheap, around 2-5mil for a DG (for now). Of course with overloading, that is going to make that scram go farther. Let's not even talk about the chance of some jerk running around with an arazu packing an officer scram (yes you can fit some to arazu/lach).

Arazu will be the king of recons again, and rapier/huginn will be meh at best.

(also, some of the inties and the Keres has bonus to scram/distuptor range, although not as significant as the gallente recon class)


The description of the Arazu says it's 20% bonus is to disruptor range. Scrams are not disruptors. Can you help me understand how these changes are going to help the Arazu? I'd love to fly one...

Transmaniacon
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:53:00 - [21]
 

In EFT, scrams get the ship bonus as well, so either its an error on their part, or a typo somewhere else.

Transmaniacon
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:55:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Euriti
RIP Ranis/Brutix/Thorax/Deimos and the minmatar race.

All hail our missile/laser overlords


Ha. I already guessed this was going to happen, amarr cruiser 5 finishes in 3 days. Screw my 25m SP in minmatar ships, I didn't want it anyway.


I had finished training minmatar cruiser V a couple months ago, and have been spending time trying to figure out which T2 cruiser class I wanted to get, but it seems now that all my choices are going to be a waste. Gallente recons will replace the rapier/huginn, the vagabond is going to be useless, and the only thing left if the HIC. Looks like I am going to finally get that Curse I have always wanted...

Arcon Telf
Gallente
N0 APOLOGY
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:55:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Arcon Telf on 25/07/2008 17:55:03
Originally by: Transmaniacon
In EFT, scrams get the ship bonus as well, so either its an error on their part, or a typo somewhere else.


Is it that way in practice? How come no one has mentioned the Fleeting Warp Scrambler, with its 20km range?

AstroPhobic
Minmatar
Holding Corp
Posted - 2008.07.25 17:56:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Arcon Telf
Edited by: Arcon Telf on 25/07/2008 17:55:03
Originally by: Transmaniacon
In EFT, scrams get the ship bonus as well, so either its an error on their part, or a typo somewhere else.


Is it that way in practice? How come no one has mentioned the Fleeting Warp Scrambler, with its 20km range?


That's a disruptor with a misnomer.

Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Heretic Army
B A N E
Posted - 2008.07.25 18:02:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Arcon Telf

Originally by: Transmaniacon
In EFT, scrams get the ship bonus as well, so either its an error on their part, or a typo somewhere else.


Is it that way in practice? How come no one has mentioned the Fleeting Warp Scrambler, with its 20km range?


Pretty sure I recall a corpmate used t2 9km scramblers on his and they get the bonus. This can even be boosted by interdiction maneuvers ganglink.

Rajere
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2008.07.25 18:21:00 - [26]
 

yes they get the bonus.

With Recon V, Mindlinked claymore, and Domination Warp Scrambler, an arazu/lach can hit 37.5KM Scram range overheated.

Troubadour
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.07.25 18:31:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Ignatious Mei
Originally by: Troubadour
Arazu/Lach with recon 4 or 5 will have about 18-22km range with a faction scram, some of which are pretty cheap, around 2-5mil for a DG (for now). Of course with overloading, that is going to make that scram go farther. Let's not even talk about the chance of some jerk running around with an arazu packing an officer scram (yes you can fit some to arazu/lach).

Arazu will be the king of recons again, and rapier/huginn will be meh at best.

(also, some of the inties and the Keres has bonus to scram/distuptor range, although not as significant as the gallente recon class)


I have also been thinking about this. I am considering training the skills for a recon now that my ishtar will be more or less worthless. Would mean I didnt waste training gal cruiser to 5.


I know it's hard to remember back then, but pre-nanocraze, people DIDN'T kit all their HACs/RECONs for speed, and they still worked well. The ishtar kicked ass then, kicks ass now, and will still kick ass post speed nerfs. I actually have a few fits for the ishtar I've been wanting to use that are non-nano fits. Now I'll have an opportunity to try them out and not fear getting face****d by nanos lol.

Troubadour
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.07.25 18:33:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Arcon Telf
Originally by: Troubadour
Arazu/Lach with recon 4 or 5 will have about 18-22km range with a faction scram, some of which are pretty cheap, around 2-5mil for a DG (for now). Of course with overloading, that is going to make that scram go farther. Let's not even talk about the chance of some jerk running around with an arazu packing an officer scram (yes you can fit some to arazu/lach).

Arazu will be the king of recons again, and rapier/huginn will be meh at best.

(also, some of the inties and the Keres has bonus to scram/distuptor range, although not as significant as the gallente recon class)


The description of the Arazu says it's 20% bonus is to disruptor range. Scrams are not disruptors. Can you help me understand how these changes are going to help the Arazu? I'd love to fly one...


Scrams get the bonus as well.

Zukira Al'Kalish
Posted - 2008.07.25 19:08:00 - [29]
 

Seems to me that the Gallente are about to gain the upper hand in terms of highly effective Force Recon Ships...

Troubadour
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.07.25 19:15:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Zukira Al'Kalish
Seems to me that the Gallente are about to gain the upper hand in terms of highly effective Force Recon Ships...


I'll tell you the same thing i tell everyone else, the Lach and Arazu are damn good recons, and never stopped being that. damp "nerf" didn't really effect the gal recons that much as they reworked and nerfed sensorboosters as well. Nobody seemed to realize this and just stopped flying the arazu and lach for no good reason. 2-3 damps with range scripts are enough to shut down 1-3 ships, depending on what they are flying. And unlike ECM, it's not chance based, which is good.


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