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Kazan Bho
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.07.25 18:50:00 - [1201]
 

Still trying to catch up on this thread (currently on page 29/40).

nerfing polys - been needed for a while
nerfing snakes - there is room for a % reduction
stacking istabs/nanos/OD - I thought this had already been done, but I guess they can be nerfed a little further.

nerfing 90%+ of players because of the 0.5% (probably less) who have spent considerable time & ISK to purchase high end equipment to make their ships better than everyone elses? Rolling Eyes


Jakus Cemendur
Caldari
Invicta.
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2008.07.25 18:51:00 - [1202]
 

Originally by: GO MaZ
Originally by: Shadoo
And so the Remote Rep on everything age begins.


Mark 3's... EVE WIDE Shocked


Well your alliance should know how effective MK 3's are, and that they're pretty easily beaten if you know what you're doing.

Jordan Musgrat
Convergent
Posted - 2008.07.25 18:52:00 - [1203]
 

Edited by: Jordan Musgrat on 25/07/2008 18:54:01
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
Originally by: Whiners

You Mean Im Going To Have To Commit To Fights???



Originally by: CCP

Yap




L M A O

Ok so as already posted, try to be a bit constructive. I don't think you've ever had more than 100 kills, and if you have, they've all been with fleet BS in large fleets. Prove me wrong. On the other hand, you sir, have proven, with your complete crap remarks, that you know nothing of which you speak.

I think most of us reasonable nano***gers would agree that a nano nerf is needed. But these changes aren't nerfing nanos, they're nerfing speed, and any ship that ever feels the need to undock.

Please CCP, the scram changes are fine, nerfing webs a bit is fine, but don't nerf the mwd itself, boost the afterburner, and be done. EvE is a great game, most people love to play it like it is, and we all recognize it's not perfect. What this nerf does is change the very fundamentals of the game. That is not acceptable. Speed in general, never needed a nerf. Please listen to reason, not bitter ze-vagas-killed-mines-raven tears. PLEASE I BEG YOU.

Tal Notts
Caldari
Divine Power.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.07.25 18:53:00 - [1204]
 

Originally by: Lord EmBra
Originally by: Areo Hotah
Edited by: Areo Hotah on 25/07/2008 13:18:08
I am on the receiving end of (AAA) nano-hacs daily.
I have had an invasion of the old TRI in my space.

Observations from me fighting nano gangs:
-nobody takes booster pills
-Claymores are quite rare to see, and tend do die a lot.
-Hardly anyone uses snakes
-There are plenty of ways to kill (part of) a nanogang, without everybody being in a Rapier or Huginn. They bring a specialized ship to do something, so you have to do something specialized to counter them. Nothing wrong with that. No standard gang (some inties, ewar and DPS) should be able to counter 95% of enemy gang types. Eve should be rock-paper-scissors
-I like fighting them. Some people have even begun to count their kills in polycarbs/week.

I think there is nothing wrong with HACs going 3-5km/s.

I think there is nothing wrong with players investing 1Bn isk in snakes and going 8km/s.

I agree there is something wrong that practically every single HAC can go faster than a standard fitted inty.

There is nothing wrong with having speeds that makes you more or less immune to missiles and drones. These offensive weapons take minimal player skill to use (hence their popularity for mission runners), while good players can avoid the damage of turrets, simply by manual piloting (and vice versa, a good player in a turret boat can maximize his damage potential). A better solution would be to have significantly reduced damage, but not 0, for hurling missiles and drones at fast targets.

I think you should never ever nerf warfare links, as they are really a team-based module, and nerfing decreases the incentive to field one is bad. A good nano gang has a Claymore, so they go even faster. So what? Kill the Claymore first.

Nerfing all at once is bad (damps anyone?).
Just start by adjusting the polycarbs to be worse than t2 nanofibers, and modify the 3 "speed" stats (mass, max velocity, agility) into 2, so more stacking penalties get applied.

Making warp scramblers useful is good (maybe do something with warpcore stabs too).

Changing a web from 90% to 60% is a 400% nerf (max speed of webbed target from 10% to 40%); nothing in the history of eve has been nerfed so hard.

Once again, I fear that the Devs are listening too much to whines, without seeing the real problem. I think they should have focussed their time solely on their last "mission statement":
Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic.
Please make more ways to make this possible, than simply nano'ing it up.

Cause:
Skilled players should be better than defending blob in crap ships.
Skilled defenders should be able to beat cookie-cutter setups.

Areo


Read this CCP!


signed

Serilla
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.07.25 18:54:00 - [1205]
 

Originally by: GO MaZ
Originally by: Shadoo
And so the Remote Rep on everything age begins.


Mark 3's... EVE WIDE Shocked


350mm Navy Megas?

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Ed Kraka
Maximum Yarrage
Posted - 2008.07.25 18:54:00 - [1206]
 

THIS IS BULL**** NANO FLEETS ARE NOT INVULNERABLE YOU JUST NEED THE SKILL AND KNOW HOW TO STOP THEM..


THIS IS A BUFF FOR ALL THE WHINGING CAREBEARS THAT JOINED FACTION WARFARE AND CRIED COS THEY COULDNT HIT SH*T.

ITS DISGUSTING THAT CCP IS EVEN THINKING OF NERFING EVERYTHING THAT GOES FAST. DISGUSTING!

Dominatus Crispus
Nation of Muppets
Posted - 2008.07.25 18:55:00 - [1207]
 

Originally by: Areo Hotah

I am on the receiving end of (AAA) nano-hacs daily.
I have had an invasion of the old TRI in my space.

Observations from me fighting nano gangs:
-nobody takes booster pills
-Claymores are quite rare to see, and tend do die a lot.
-Hardly anyone uses snakes
-There are plenty of ways to kill (part of) a nanogang, without everybody being in a Rapier or Huginn. They bring a specialized ship to do something, so you have to do something specialized to counter them. Nothing wrong with that. No standard gang (some inties, ewar and DPS) should be able to counter 95% of enemy gang types. Eve should be rock-paper-scissors
-I like fighting them. Some people have even begun to count their kills in polycarbs/week.

I think there is nothing wrong with HACs going 3-5km/s.

I think there is nothing wrong with players investing 1Bn isk in snakes and going 8km/s.

I agree there is something wrong that practically every single HAC can go faster than a standard fitted inty.

There is nothing wrong with having speeds that makes you more or less immune to missiles and drones. These offensive weapons take minimal player skill to use (hence their popularity for mission runners), while good players can avoid the damage of turrets, simply by manual piloting (and vice versa, a good player in a turret boat can maximize his damage potential). A better solution would be to have significantly reduced damage, but not 0, for hurling missiles and drones at fast targets.

I think you should never ever nerf warfare links, as they are really a team-based module, and nerfing decreases the incentive to field one is bad. A good nano gang has a Claymore, so they go even faster. So what? Kill the Claymore first.

Nerfing all at once is bad (damps anyone?).
Just start by adjusting the polycarbs to be worse than t2 nanofibers, and modify the 3 "speed" stats (mass, max velocity, agility) into 2, so more stacking penalties get applied.

Making warp scramblers useful is good (maybe do something with warpcore stabs too).

Changing a web from 90% to 60% is a 400% nerf (max speed of webbed target from 10% to 40%); nothing in the history of eve has been nerfed so hard.

Once again, I fear that the Devs are listening too much to whines, without seeing the real problem. I think they should have focussed their time solely on their last "mission statement":
Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic.
Please make more ways to make this possible, than simply nano'ing it up.

Cause:
Skilled players should be better than defending blob in crap ships.
Skilled defenders should be able to beat cookie-cutter setups.

Areo
I could not have said this better myself.

Hey CCP, how about you stop nerfing the game play decided by the players and maybe start looking into nerfing the lag? 10 min modulate activation in a system of less than 100 is horrible.

Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2008.07.25 18:55:00 - [1208]
 

What about scripting webifiers... let T2 become like 5km 90%(script for strength), 10km 60% (unscripted) or 15km 30% (scripted for range)

Just a suggestion ofcourse...

Nothing is bulletproof - just a matter of finding the right bullet for the right target...

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.07.25 18:56:00 - [1209]
 

About time tbh.
No matter how much fun nano-ships are, there is no doubt that the current state of game mechanics make them unbalanced.

Good call.

matty01
matty01 hyperFun ratting corp
Posted - 2008.07.25 18:56:00 - [1210]
 

Originally by: Serilla
Originally by: GO MaZ
Originally by: Shadoo
And so the Remote Rep on everything age begins.


Mark 3's... EVE WIDE Shocked


350mm Navy Megas?

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


Laughing

Alpha Type
Gallente
Childhood's End
Posted - 2008.07.25 18:57:00 - [1211]
 

Originally by: Ed Kraka
THIS IS BULL**** NANO FLEETS ARE NOT INVULNERABLE YOU JUST NEED THE SKILL AND KNOW HOW TO STOP THEM..


THIS IS A BUFF FOR ALL THE WHINGING CAREBEARS THAT JOINED FACTION WARFARE AND CRIED COS THEY COULDNT HIT SH*T.

ITS DISGUSTING THAT CCP IS EVEN THINKING OF NERFING EVERYTHING THAT GOES FAST. DISGUSTING!

SKY IS FALLING, MUST POST IN CAPS TO CONVEY THE ENORMITY OF MY NERDRAGE!

I ONLY PLAY FW, AND EVERYTHING IS ABOUT ME, SO THIS MUST BE BECAUSE OF FW PILOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Loka xDD
Posted - 2008.07.25 18:57:00 - [1212]
 

Thats what i think:

If nano is overpowered, then get a nano ship and go kill stuffs.. Oh, you always die with a nano, but others nano always kill you? THEN YOU DESERVE TO DIE!!! Simply as that, dont go cry because nano are overpowered because its not =/

Have you ever tried to kill an Apoc with 100km pulse lasers with nanos? dammm, nano dont need to be nerfed, because its already being nerfed by the pvpers that knows what they are doing, and soon the noobs will learn how to fight agains nano too... Soo, noobs, stop crying about nanos being overpowered T_T

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2008.07.25 18:59:00 - [1213]
 

Originally by: KingCappo
Originally by: Shadowsword

stuff


You left out the part where the vaga has to fight into falloff in order to have a 17km effective range. So 440 dps is closer to 250-300 DPS.

EFT != TQ


Where did I say the vagabond had to stay right at the limit of effective range (optimal+falloff)? Those setups are made to dish out pain right up your butt. And they work pretty well at that.


Quote:

could u provide exact fits?



I'll do it for that vagabond fit, cba for the other HAS, but they're similar.

5* 425mm AC II, RF EMP
1* HAM II, CN whatever

10MN MWD II
Warp disruptor II
LSE II
Invul Field II

Damage control II
2* Power diags II
2* Gyrostab II

Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.07.25 18:59:00 - [1214]
 

Cruisers going 3.5-5km+ a second was broken too, as the only thing that could stop a small gang of them was another similarly speeded gang or 5-10 huginns.

That's why it was such an across the board change.

Dungar Loghoth
Caldari
Gank Bangers
Posted - 2008.07.25 18:59:00 - [1215]
 

Originally by: Lord EmBra
Originally by: Areo Hotah
Edited by: Areo Hotah on 25/07/2008 13:18:08
I am on the receiving end of (AAA) nano-hacs daily.
I have had an invasion of the old TRI in my space.

Observations from me fighting nano gangs:
-nobody takes booster pills
-Claymores are quite rare to see, and tend do die a lot.
-Hardly anyone uses snakes
-There are plenty of ways to kill (part of) a nanogang, without everybody being in a Rapier or Huginn. They bring a specialized ship to do something, so you have to do something specialized to counter them. Nothing wrong with that. No standard gang (some inties, ewar and DPS) should be able to counter 95% of enemy gang types. Eve should be rock-paper-scissors
-I like fighting them. Some people have even begun to count their kills in polycarbs/week.

I think there is nothing wrong with HACs going 3-5km/s.

I think there is nothing wrong with players investing 1Bn isk in snakes and going 8km/s.

I agree there is something wrong that practically every single HAC can go faster than a standard fitted inty.

There is nothing wrong with having speeds that makes you more or less immune to missiles and drones. These offensive weapons take minimal player skill to use (hence their popularity for mission runners), while good players can avoid the damage of turrets, simply by manual piloting (and vice versa, a good player in a turret boat can maximize his damage potential). A better solution would be to have significantly reduced damage, but not 0, for hurling missiles and drones at fast targets.

I think you should never ever nerf warfare links, as they are really a team-based module, and nerfing decreases the incentive to field one is bad. A good nano gang has a Claymore, so they go even faster. So what? Kill the Claymore first.

Nerfing all at once is bad (damps anyone?).
Just start by adjusting the polycarbs to be worse than t2 nanofibers, and modify the 3 "speed" stats (mass, max velocity, agility) into 2, so more stacking penalties get applied.

Making warp scramblers useful is good (maybe do something with warpcore stabs too).

Changing a web from 90% to 60% is a 400% nerf (max speed of webbed target from 10% to 40%); nothing in the history of eve has been nerfed so hard.

Once again, I fear that the Devs are listening too much to whines, without seeing the real problem. I think they should have focussed their time solely on their last "mission statement":
Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic.
Please make more ways to make this possible, than simply nano'ing it up.

Cause:
Skilled players should be better than defending blob in crap ships.
Skilled defenders should be able to beat cookie-cutter setups.

Areo


Read this CCP!

GO MaZ
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.07.25 18:59:00 - [1216]
 

Originally by: Serilla
Originally by: GO MaZ
Originally by: Shadoo
And so the Remote Rep on everything age begins.


Mark 3's... EVE WIDE Shocked


350mm Navy Megas?

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


If everyone fitted these we'd have no issue with people whinging about overpowered nanos...


Also a lot of spare lino and dead alliances Cool

Slade Hoo
Amarr
Retired Gunslingers
Posted - 2008.07.25 19:00:00 - [1217]
 

Originally by: Pinky Denmark
What about scripting webifiers... let T2 become like 5km 90%(script for strength), 10km 60% (unscripted) or 15km 30% (scripted for range)



That doesn't fit the following criteria of CCP: "There should be a significant and meaningful difference in speed between the ship classes."

Frigs operate at around 5km with standard ammunition and no sniper/longrange fitting. they would get webbed for 90% and have/lower speed than cruisers. Isn't intended.

SSDD24
Gallente
tr0pa de elite
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2008.07.25 19:00:00 - [1218]
 

How the hell did we end up with a game in wich the peeps that make it (aka get money to develop, play and test it) know less about it then a guy that spends 20 hrs/ week playing it?

After reading all these pages i stil fail to see any coherent support for this nerf. You call this rebalancing? I think you dont understand the meaning of the word balance.

Mad props to all the peeps that tried to argue with valid arguements with CCP. CCP by calling theyr arguments knee-jerking you show you really dont deserve your players.






WidowMaker IX
Caldari
Posted - 2008.07.25 19:00:00 - [1219]
 

Laughing haha oh god i am soo happy thanx CCP Laughing

DGWabbit
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.07.25 19:00:00 - [1220]
 

Please someone (Dev) actually read this post:

Speed tanking is not always done with billion isk ships, I was able to speed tank a BS in a Hac using an AB and 1 polycarb, the low slots were tank and he barely ever hit me.

Rather than reducing the speed of all ships by 2k, increase tracking a little more? So they at least get glancing or light hits vs excellent or nothing at all. Boost missles and drone speeds even.

Also, you are NERFING the ENTIRE playerbase because of those few, very few that do have full snake sets. Why not just nerf down the implants? As it is, the only way for your dev to break 4k in a vaga was to abuse those particular implants.

Also, I hope you realize that nano-ships now have poor dps since their low's are full of speed and not damage, shouldn't that be trade off enough? Even a drake can push back a vaga 1v1.

Opinions that I feel the dev's should read:

I did not enjoy seeing that the devs are taking these posts' with a "grain of salt" because that effectively means they are ignoring 90% of them.

The solutions are easy, but your approaches you are taking are very game-breaking. Yes you can break your own game, you'd think that the 40 pages this has gone so far (majority are against your proposal) you would have realized that.

The Dev's balancing ideas...I do not believe he plays on the main server in a 0.0 alliance. He should not be allowed to drastically affect the ENTIRE game. It's almost as bad as the carrier proposal of a 5 drone limit. No offense intended, i simply do not believe the dev in question is qualified to make this balance.

Cutesmile
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.07.25 19:01:00 - [1221]
 

Edited by: Cutesmile on 25/07/2008 19:02:01
Originally by: Tal Notts
Originally by: Lord EmBra
Originally by: Areo Hotah
Edited by: Areo Hotah on 25/07/2008 13:18:08
I am on the receiving end of (AAA) nano-hacs daily.
I have had an invasion of the old TRI in my space.

Observations from me fighting nano gangs:
-nobody takes booster pills
-Claymores are quite rare to see, and tend do die a lot.
-Hardly anyone uses snakes
-There are plenty of ways to kill (part of) a nanogang, without everybody being in a Rapier or Huginn. They bring a specialized ship to do something, so you have to do something specialized to counter them. Nothing wrong with that. No standard gang (some inties, ewar and DPS) should be able to counter 95% of enemy gang types. Eve should be rock-paper-scissors
-I like fighting them. Some people have even begun to count their kills in polycarbs/week.

I think there is nothing wrong with HACs going 3-5km/s.

I think there is nothing wrong with players investing 1Bn isk in snakes and going 8km/s.

I agree there is something wrong that practically every single HAC can go faster than a standard fitted inty.

There is nothing wrong with having speeds that makes you more or less immune to missiles and drones. These offensive weapons take minimal player skill to use (hence their popularity for mission runners), while good players can avoid the damage of turrets, simply by manual piloting (and vice versa, a good player in a turret boat can maximize his damage potential). A better solution would be to have significantly reduced damage, but not 0, for hurling missiles and drones at fast targets.

I think you should never ever nerf warfare links, as they are really a team-based module, and nerfing decreases the incentive to field one is bad. A good nano gang has a Claymore, so they go even faster. So what? Kill the Claymore first.

Nerfing all at once is bad (damps anyone?).
Just start by adjusting the polycarbs to be worse than t2 nanofibers, and modify the 3 "speed" stats (mass, max velocity, agility) into 2, so more stacking penalties get applied.

Making warp scramblers useful is good (maybe do something with warpcore stabs too).

Changing a web from 90% to 60% is a 400% nerf (max speed of webbed target from 10% to 40%); nothing in the history of eve has been nerfed so hard.

Once again, I fear that the Devs are listening too much to whines, without seeing the real problem. I think they should have focussed their time solely on their last "mission statement":
Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic.
Please make more ways to make this possible, than simply nano'ing it up.

Cause:
Skilled players should be better than defending blob in crap ships.
Skilled defenders should be able to beat cookie-cutter setups.

Areo


Read this CCP!


signed


Signed too.
CCP try to fix the lag and not try to nerf the all EVE.
CCP working again for nothing and make more lag in EVE world.
Pls go and work for the bigest problems of game.

Anahid Brutus
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.07.25 19:01:00 - [1222]
 

Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
Originally by: Whiners

You Mean Im Going To Have To Commit To Fights???



Originally by: CCP

Yap


except people will just fly sniping ships and engage that way, or simply do deaggro/docking games. just because you kill off one way of fighting doesn't mean that people will suddenly stop caring about the time they put into their ships. you ****ing idiots.


matty01
matty01 hyperFun ratting corp
Posted - 2008.07.25 19:03:00 - [1223]
 

Originally by: GO MaZ
Originally by: Serilla
Originally by: GO MaZ
Originally by: Shadoo
And so the Remote Rep on everything age begins.


Mark 3's... EVE WIDE Shocked


350mm Navy Megas?

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


If everyone fitted these we'd have no issue with people whinging about overpowered nanos...


Also a lot of spare lino and dead alliances Cool


needs gravy quote imo

Dungar Loghoth
Caldari
Gank Bangers
Posted - 2008.07.25 19:03:00 - [1224]
 

Originally by: WidowMaker IX
Laughing haha oh god i am soo happy thanx CCP Laughing


WidowMaker, member, State War Academy, 2 years, 4 months, 20 days.

Kery Syander
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.07.25 19:03:00 - [1225]
 

Originally by: SSDD24
How the hell did we end up with a game in wich the peeps that make it (aka get money to develop, play and test it) know less about it then a guy that spends 20 hrs/ week playing it?

After reading all these pages i stil fail to see any coherent support for this nerf. You call this rebalancing? I think you dont understand the meaning of the word balance.

Mad props to all the peeps that tried to argue with valid arguements with CCP. CCP by calling theyr arguments knee-jerking you show you really dont deserve your players.



CCP is just smart. I mean they know that there is no counter to nanos and that missiles not doing full damage sometimes is broken. Laughing

I'm pretty sure nohz camped a nano gang into a dead end const with a 60 man gang and then got angry when they just 'nanoed off' from his ratting raven gang. Laughing

Loka xDD
Posted - 2008.07.25 19:05:00 - [1226]
 

Originally by: Dungar Loghoth
Originally by: Lord EmBra
Originally by: Areo Hotah
Edited by: Areo Hotah on 25/07/2008 13:18:08
I am on the receiving end of (AAA) nano-hacs daily.
I have had an invasion of the old TRI in my space.

Observations from me fighting nano gangs:
-nobody takes booster pills
-Claymores are quite rare to see, and tend do die a lot.
-Hardly anyone uses snakes
-There are plenty of ways to kill (part of) a nanogang, without everybody being in a Rapier or Huginn. They bring a specialized ship to do something, so you have to do something specialized to counter them. Nothing wrong with that. No standard gang (some inties, ewar and DPS) should be able to counter 95% of enemy gang types. Eve should be rock-paper-scissors
-I like fighting them. Some people have even begun to count their kills in polycarbs/week.

I think there is nothing wrong with HACs going 3-5km/s.

I think there is nothing wrong with players investing 1Bn isk in snakes and going 8km/s.

I agree there is something wrong that practically every single HAC can go faster than a standard fitted inty.

There is nothing wrong with having speeds that makes you more or less immune to missiles and drones. These offensive weapons take minimal player skill to use (hence their popularity for mission runners), while good players can avoid the damage of turrets, simply by manual piloting (and vice versa, a good player in a turret boat can maximize his damage potential). A better solution would be to have significantly reduced damage, but not 0, for hurling missiles and drones at fast targets.

I think you should never ever nerf warfare links, as they are really a team-based module, and nerfing decreases the incentive to field one is bad. A good nano gang has a Claymore, so they go even faster. So what? Kill the Claymore first.

Nerfing all at once is bad (damps anyone?).
Just start by adjusting the polycarbs to be worse than t2 nanofibers, and modify the 3 "speed" stats (mass, max velocity, agility) into 2, so more stacking penalties get applied.

Making warp scramblers useful is good (maybe do something with warpcore stabs too).

Changing a web from 90% to 60% is a 400% nerf (max speed of webbed target from 10% to 40%); nothing in the history of eve has been nerfed so hard.

Once again, I fear that the Devs are listening too much to whines, without seeing the real problem. I think they should have focussed their time solely on their last "mission statement":
Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic.
Please make more ways to make this possible, than simply nano'ing it up.

Cause:
Skilled players should be better than defending blob in crap ships.
Skilled defenders should be able to beat cookie-cutter setups.

Areo


Read this CCP!



signed =)

GO MaZ
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.07.25 19:05:00 - [1227]
 

Originally by: Areo Hotah

I am on the receiving end of (AAA) nano-hacs daily.
I have had an invasion of the old TRI in my space.

Observations from me fighting nano gangs:
-nobody takes booster pills
-Claymores are quite rare to see, and tend do die a lot.
-Hardly anyone uses snakes
-There are plenty of ways to kill (part of) a nanogang, without everybody being in a Rapier or Huginn. They bring a specialized ship to do something, so you have to do something specialized to counter them. Nothing wrong with that. No standard gang (some inties, ewar and DPS) should be able to counter 95% of enemy gang types. Eve should be rock-paper-scissors
-I like fighting them. Some people have even begun to count their kills in polycarbs/week.

I think there is nothing wrong with HACs going 3-5km/s.

I think there is nothing wrong with players investing 1Bn isk in snakes and going 8km/s.

I agree there is something wrong that practically every single HAC can go faster than a standard fitted inty.

There is nothing wrong with having speeds that makes you more or less immune to missiles and drones. These offensive weapons take minimal player skill to use (hence their popularity for mission runners), while good players can avoid the damage of turrets, simply by manual piloting (and vice versa, a good player in a turret boat can maximize his damage potential). A better solution would be to have significantly reduced damage, but not 0, for hurling missiles and drones at fast targets.

I think you should never ever nerf warfare links, as they are really a team-based module, and nerfing decreases the incentive to field one is bad. A good nano gang has a Claymore, so they go even faster. So what? Kill the Claymore first.

Nerfing all at once is bad (damps anyone?).
Just start by adjusting the polycarbs to be worse than t2 nanofibers, and modify the 3 "speed" stats (mass, max velocity, agility) into 2, so more stacking penalties get applied.

Making warp scramblers useful is good (maybe do something with warpcore stabs too).

Changing a web from 90% to 60% is a 400% nerf (max speed of webbed target from 10% to 40%); nothing in the history of eve has been nerfed so hard.

Once again, I fear that the Devs are listening too much to whines, without seeing the real problem. I think they should have focussed their time solely on their last "mission statement":
Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic.
Please make more ways to make this possible, than simply nano'ing it up.

Cause:
Skilled players should be better than defending blob in crap ships.
Skilled defenders should be able to beat cookie-cutter setups.

Areo

SSDD24
Gallente
tr0pa de elite
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2008.07.25 19:07:00 - [1228]
 

They sent us to Sisi to test first and speak later but i guess they forgot to play the game first.

fire5tar
Butterfly Effect Corp.
Posted - 2008.07.25 19:07:00 - [1229]
 

Excellent approach CCP, well thought out, good reasons for doing it, and it looks like it will be well implemented too.

That took guts and effort knowing how the skilless wonders will whine that they can't just spin around the system laughing in local anymore. Not that'll they'll ever admit thats what they are whining about :)

Congrats job well done looking forward to it! Cool

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2008.07.25 19:08:00 - [1230]
 

No i am not alt.

Great changes imo. Always intresting to see that the nano abusers are filled with the idea that the only way to do small scale pvp is using nano ships. Probably because they think it is normal to reach ridiculous killrates. I do solo stuff mainly in battlecruisers. I get kills in them and i lose a ****load of them. You now just got to accept that you cant run away from every fight that is going sucky.

Something not much discussed: what i especially like is that now i can actually be flying during combat. Unless i got a nano circling arround me, i am usually webbed during combat, meaning that even with mwd i barely can move. With these changes i can actually move arround a bit.


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