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Elvor Dark
New Dawn Corporation
Posted - 2008.07.21 11:49:00 - [1]
 

Ok, so last night me and a mate got a Myrmidon and tackled it at a gate in 0.0, he put up a fight and when he knew he couldn't win, he tried to get back to the gate, my mate bumped him off though with his Vagabond and I just kept him webbed down with my Huginn. There was no escape for this guy and he knew it, his tank was too good though, but he must have been running out of Cap Booster Charges by now. Then all of a sudden, he exploded. The ******* had only gone and self destructed. Not only didn't we get the kill, but there was no loot drop neither.

I didn't know that this was the case.

Anyway, me and mate were ******, but I ask you all, what the hell? If you destroy his ship and it explodes, you get a loot drop, so why when he explodes it himself, don't we get any loot?

This totally defeats the object of the tackle and it's way too easy for an ISK farmer to deny us the kill and his loot. Yeah they lose out, but with no loot drop as well, so do we. We got nothing for our trouble and this just sucks. While they swan away laughing at us because they denied us the kill and their loot.

What if he was faction fitted? It would have been a great kill, or attempt at least, but because there was no loot drop, it wouldn't matter so much if he self destructed and so he would.

I think that there should at least be loot drops on self destructed ships, it makes more sense than having no loot drop. What do you think?

Elvor Dark
New Dawn Corporation
Posted - 2008.07.21 11:54:00 - [2]
 

I think I posted this in the wrong area. :) Oops.

Lilly Gilbrath
Posted - 2008.07.21 12:02:00 - [3]
 

And he should just have sat there for the next 20 minutes or so until you managed to chew through his tank?

I've said this before and I'll say it again, If you can't bring enough DPS to kill your target before he self destructs, that's your failure not his, if he can self destruct to prevent you from looting his wreck then it's a valid tactical move.

z0de
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2008.07.21 12:03:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: z0de on 21/07/2008 12:07:36
Originally by: Elvor Dark
If you destroy his ship and it explodes, you get a loot drop, so why when he explodes it himself, don't we get any loot?

Self destruct is an internal explosion designed to rip the whole ship to shreds so your opponent cant use anything from your ship, of course its allot more damaging and will focus on blowing up the core parts of the ship (the fitting)

Originally by: Elvor Dark

This totally defeats the object of the tackle and it's way too easy for an ISK farmer to deny us the kill and his loot. Yeah they lose out, but with no loot drop as well, so do we.
That's the point, its the final **** you.

Originally by: Elvor Dark

I think that there should at least be loot drops on self destructed ships, it makes more sense than having no loot drop. What do you think?
Although I really would like this it shouldn't happen as self destructs are meant to be damaging, I'm not even sure their should be a wreck, but I also think if the user doesn't eject before the self destruct then he should lose his pod.

Bring more dps next time.

ViTkoo
Posted - 2008.07.21 12:36:00 - [5]
 

hmm

Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
House of El
Posted - 2008.07.21 12:56:00 - [6]
 

I havn't self destructed in a long while, nor have I seen anyone self destruct. But doesn't it create a wreck? You can just salvage the wreck for components and there is your loot.

War goes 2 ways. If I can't kill you I would do all I could to take away as much of the spoils as I could. In real wars, ships are scuttled for just that fact (prolly more an intelligence concern than loot Smile).

Hawkster222
Posted - 2008.07.21 20:59:00 - [7]
 

U cant kill a myrm in a vaga and huginn in 120 seconds... wow... u really need to up ur dps...

Evangeline Vhersoul
Posted - 2008.07.21 21:31:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Evangeline Vhersoul on 21/07/2008 21:32:18
Originally by: Hawkster222
U cant kill a myrm in a vaga and huginn in 120 seconds... wow... u really need to up ur dps...



Come to think of it, my friends Vagabond had no Gyrostabilizers fitted and his weapons and ammo was fail, not even tech 2. I myself had all tech 2 weapons, but only ECM drones. Maybe we could have killed him if my friends fit was different and I had combat drones, or maybe not.

Personally, I think you've been picking on too many noobs.

Oh for goodness sake, this is Elvor Dark's unwanted alt btw.

Evangeline Vhersoul
Posted - 2008.07.21 22:12:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Evangeline Vhersoul on 21/07/2008 22:12:03
Originally by: Lilly Gilbrath
And he should just have sat there for the next 20 minutes or so until you managed to chew through his tank?

I've said this before and I'll say it again, If you can't bring enough DPS to kill your target before he self destructs, that's your failure not his, if he can self destruct to prevent you from looting his wreck then it's a valid tactical move.


"Valid Tactical Move" Is that what you call it? lol.

Tbh, I never knew that we never got loot as well, not getting the kill is fine, but no loot as well, that's just dumb and as for what z0de said;

"Self destruct is an internal explosion designed to rip the whole ship to shreds so your opponent cant use anything from your ship, of course its allot more damaging and will focus on blowing up the core parts of the ship (the fitting)" lol, where did you read that? Or did you make it up, no matter, it was a pretty good way of explaining the self destruct sequence.

You did make one really good point too, if we take this into account; "I'm not even sure their should be a wreck, but I also think if the user doesn't eject before the self destruct then he should lose his pod." What a great idea, I like it. A lot! That makes perfect sense and when you kill a ship with no one in it because they left, you still get the kill.

Sweet, that's a win win situation then ain't it, for the hunter at least. :)

And finally... DPS, yes we had the DPS nearby, we could have called it in easily, but then we would have been blobbing. Is that what this game has come too, do we really need to have ridiculous blobs to kill someone? Must I go and join Gooswarm? lol, I don't think so...

CCP have made this game over the years more and more about us working together. That's a good thing in some ways, but it has had the blob effect when it comes to combat, not in every case no, but in a lot and I can bet my *** when most people in eve are blobbed, they look down on it.

Yeah massive fleets can be sweet at times and it's nice to see a huge fleet come and help you out, or maybe your part of it. Are you saying that I should always blob my target though, just incase they are going to self destruct?

Aah, I done it again, still Elvor Dark. :)

CCP Mitnal


C C P
Posted - 2008.07.21 22:21:00 - [10]
 

Moved to Crime & Punishment.

techzer0
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.07.21 22:36:00 - [11]
 

Poasting in a ED thread.

Sucks mate... kinda annoying ain't it? But tbh.. needz moar DPS. Vaga can do about 450-500+ and Huginn with autos does about the same... sooo?? ugh

Letava
Gallente
Scions of Mars
Excuses.
Posted - 2008.07.21 22:59:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: techzer0
Poasting in a ED thread.

Sucks mate... kinda annoying ain't it? But tbh.. needz moar DPS. Vaga can do about 450-500+ and Huginn with autos does about the same... sooo?? ugh


Because if they go into their optimal range they are going to get bum****ed by a half decent Myrm, and if they don't they will only do a fraction of their DPS potential. Still, hanging at around 10km should've been safe enough with a Huginn there, and the hit chance would probably not have been about 80% for the Vaga, less for the Huginn without the falloff bonus.

Nara Krylov
Gallente
Posted - 2008.07.21 23:39:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Nara Krylov on 21/07/2008 23:39:57
Todo:
1: Cheaply fit a bc with enough tank to survive gatecamp for 2 minutes.
2: Get scrammed and outnumbered in fight.
3: Push big red button.
Cost with insurance: Minimal.
Hearing gatecampers whine about unfairness: Priceless.

Nexus Kinnon
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2008.07.22 00:24:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Nara Krylov
Edited by: Nara Krylov on 21/07/2008 23:39:57
Todo:
1: Cheaply fit a bc with enough tank to survive gatecamp for 2 minutes.
2: Get scrammed and outnumbered in fight.
3: Push big red button.
Cost with insurance: Minimal.
Hearing gatecampers whine about unfairness: Priceless.



boy oh boy you sure owned them by still losing your ship

Aurelio Baran
Caldari
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
Posted - 2008.07.22 00:57:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Aurelio Baran on 22/07/2008 00:59:10
Edited by: Aurelio Baran on 22/07/2008 00:59:00
Edited by: Aurelio Baran on 22/07/2008 00:57:51
Originally by: Elvor Dark
Ok, so last night me and a mate got a Myrmidon and tackled it at a gate in 0.0, he put up a fight and when he knew he couldn't win, he tried to get back to the gate, my mate bumped him off though with his Vagabond and I just kept him webbed down with my Huginn. There was no escape for this guy and he knew it, his tank was too good though, but he must have been running out of Cap Booster Charges by now. Then all of a sudden, he exploded. The ******* had only gone and self destructed. Not only didn't we get the kill, but there was no loot drop neither.

I didn't know that this was the case.

Anyway, me and mate were ******, but I ask you all, what the hell? If you destroy his ship and it explodes, you get a loot drop, so why when he explodes it himself, don't we get any loot?

This totally defeats the object of the tackle and it's way too easy for an ISK farmer to deny us the kill and his loot. Yeah they lose out, but with no loot drop as well, so do we. We got nothing for our trouble and this just sucks. While they swan away laughing at us because they denied us the kill and their loot.

What if he was faction fitted? It would have been a great kill, or attempt at least, but because there was no loot drop, it wouldn't matter so much if he self destructed and so he would.

I think that there should at least be loot drops on self destructed ships, it makes more sense than having no loot drop. What do you think?


In other words, you got too happy and content with your "job well done" and the victim, turned you into the victim, at the same time telling you "**** you, I win. You get nothing and wasted your time. Owned."

Yeah, you did get pwned more so than him.

I don't know which is more pathetic, the fact that he basically turned you into the victim or the fact that you ****ed up so miserably that you couldn't finish him off in 120 seconds. Christ, that's ****ing pathetic.

Mika Meroko
Minmatar
Crayon Posting Inc
Posted - 2008.07.22 01:46:00 - [16]
 

need more dps....


tbh, hes gonna be F-ed anyways... and yeah, is his way of giving the final F-u...


in eve.. thats pretty normal =P


TheTerribleTerryTate
Minmatar
Dark Neutron Star
Drama Flakes
Posted - 2008.07.22 01:47:00 - [17]
 


Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2008.07.22 01:55:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: techzer0
Poasting in a ED thread.

Sucks mate... kinda annoying ain't it? But tbh.. needz moar DPS. Vaga can do about 450-500+ and Huginn with autos does about the same... sooo?? ugh


easy to say when your in a npc corp, post with your main

OH SHI-! its techzer0!

techzer0
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.07.22 02:45:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: techzer0
Poasting in a ED thread.

Sucks mate... kinda annoying ain't it? But tbh.. needz moar DPS. Vaga can do about 450-500+ and Huginn with autos does about the same... sooo?? ugh


easy to say when your in a npc corp, post with your main

OH SHI-! its techzer0!
I like EFT warfare.

Elvor Dark
New Dawn Corporation
Posted - 2008.07.22 08:25:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Elvor Dark on 22/07/2008 08:25:34
Originally by: techzer0
Poasting in a ED thread.

Sucks mate... kinda annoying ain't it? But tbh.. needz moar DPS. Vaga can do about 450-500+ and Huginn with autos does about the same... sooo?? ugh


Lol, yeah but kenneh's a noob, he never had the t2 guns dammit! Even he was like, oh damn, I forgot all about that self destruct ****. lol, nvm eh...

Elvor Dark
New Dawn Corporation
Posted - 2008.07.22 08:35:00 - [21]
 

Need more DPS seems to be what most people are saying, like I said, stop picking on noobs that don't know how to fit their ships.

Also, it's an f-u move that's tactical. It's not tactical, it's desperate.

Is there anyone against this Self Destruct crap?

Don't be afraid by those care bears that try to dis' you. Come on, comment about it, what do you think should be done instead?

H Lecter
Gallente
The Black Rabbits Academy
The Gurlstas Associates
Posted - 2008.07.22 08:57:00 - [22]
 

No, I don't like it when people self destruct.

However, as I have been taught that it is an absolutely legitimate moveConfused, I will do it on any occasion to deny my opponents their loot and killmail.

Krisbru
Minmatar
Rennfeuer
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.07.22 09:22:00 - [23]
 

The biggest fail ist not the self-destruct of that guy, but you to bring a Vaga with T1-fitting. So if I were you, I'd delete this thread and stop whining.

z0de
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2008.07.22 09:35:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Evangeline Vhersoul

Tbh, I never knew that we never got loot as well, not getting the kill is fine, but no loot as well, that's just dumb and as for what z0de said;

"Self destruct is an internal explosion designed to rip the whole ship to shreds so your opponent cant use anything from your ship, of course its allot more damaging and will focus on blowing up the core parts of the ship (the fitting)" lol, where did you read that? Or did you make it up, no matter, it was a pretty good way of explaining the self destruct sequence.

You did make one really good point too, if we take this into account; "I'm not even sure their should be a wreck, but I also think if the user doesn't eject before the self destruct then he should lose his pod." What a great idea, I like it. A lot! That makes perfect sense and when you kill a ship with no one in it because they left, you still get the kill.

Sweet, that's a win win situation then ain't it, for the hunter at least. :)


Although I did make it up that's what a self destruct is and the only reason you would blow up your ship, to stop the other guy getting it. As for the pod idea that comes from various sci-fi where self destruct starts to stop <rare something> falling in to the wrong hands and then everyone tries to get out.

Pilot Abilene
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.07.22 09:50:00 - [25]
 

You still got the guys ship destroyed regardless, whats the problem? That's still a win in my book even sans loot. If you are crying about the kill mail though...gtfo and go play counterstrike.


Elvor Dark
New Dawn Corporation
Posted - 2008.07.22 11:01:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Elvor Dark on 22/07/2008 11:01:37
Originally by: Pilot Abilene
You still got the guys ship destroyed regardless, whats the problem? That's still a win in my book even sans loot. If you are crying about the kill mail though...gtfo and go play counterstrike.




Not getting the kill isn't the problem, it was not getting the loot that really got me. As I already explained, if you destroy their ship, you get loot and it still explodes, but if you self destruct it, not only does it still explode, but this way you don't get loot. It makes no sense, that's all. z0de did come up with one, but it wasn't legit and although yes our victim did lose out, so did we and it's a desperate move that should be made more difficult in some way.

The fact that you apparently get insurance too for self destructing your ship, that seems wrong. You don't lose it, you purposely destroy it yourself. That's makes you fraudulent. :) No matter the circumstance.

Elvor Dark
New Dawn Corporation
Posted - 2008.07.22 11:12:00 - [27]
 

After thinking about this subject somewhat, I have decided that yes, I agree that self destructing should not profit the hunters in any way. I also however, think that it should not profit the victim in any way too. They were the stupid ones that got caught and so they should lose out, but IF and only IF they self destruct. If they fight us off, then kudos to them and if they can't, hard luck.

Thank you to all those that commented on this subject, feel free to continue commenting on this.

I'm glad I posted it.

Novemb3r
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.07.22 11:27:00 - [28]
 

If you don't have the dps to kill him before he self destructs you don't deserve anything.

It's not his fault you were not properly prepared.

Cmdr TwinTurrets
Mordu's Henchmen
Posted - 2008.07.22 11:34:00 - [29]
 

yeah, ewww.... dps is a must when ganking.

Lily Cole
Posted - 2008.07.22 11:44:00 - [30]
 

I suppose the pro-nano fools will now add "Self Destruct" to the huge massive unending list of "counters" to nano.


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